Quick Fix Game 67: Down the Rabbit-Hole

[Sart he/him]

6 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

ok maybe i am wrong but idk why jabberwock!tkn would kill someone cursed by time when he'd know, being cursed by time himself, that it is a thing that exists in this minigame too. like i said, i assumed it ended with the last one

And if he knew he could kill someone retroactively, why not target me, the person who (unintentionally) blocked his win condition? This theory isn't holding water.

Further, I wasn't cursed by Time Cycle 1 or 2 and yet my Cycle 1 action got rejected on Cycle 2. My best guess is it's only a probability for the person cursed by Time to affect last cycle. That would explain one kill being in the present and one in the past.

[Stick. she/her]

3 minutes ago, Sart said:

And if he knew he could kill someone retroactively, why not target me, the person who (unintentionally) blocked his win condition? This theory isn't holding water.

im not sure i understand this :p.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

18 minutes ago, Sart said:

And if he knew he could kill someone retroactively, why not target me, the person who (unintentionally) blocked his win condition? This theory isn't holding water.

Further, I wasn't cursed by Time Cycle 1 or 2 and yet my Cycle 1 action got rejected on Cycle 2. My best guess is it's only a probability for the person cursed by Time to affect last cycle. That would explain one kill being in the present and one in the past.

You didn't block TKN; he was Tea Party, he won last minigame. You blocked me and the other Animals, because you were the only Tea Party member who didn't shrink.

Also, your Curse wasn't the reason your C1 action failed, Ash's was. He blocked you in C2, and that got transmitted back to C1.

Does anyone Cursed by Time have an example of an action they took (except for opening PMs) that was NOT time traveled?

[Mat he/him]

59 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

hey, no, come back and explain that :p.

Am back, but there's not actually a lot to explain. I think it's a posturing thing, mostly. The line that gave me the red flag was

6 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

@Experience please explain what info you gleaned off exaggerating Mat's defense of ash 

^this one-- he's already been asked twice, by you and me, and I'm pretty sure if he had anything he would have already said it. So, this looks like you're setting him up for failure. I have switched over to believing in v!Exp so this by comparison doesn't look good. I think it's pretty obvious that was a case of 'reaction test that didn't go anywhere', as they often don't.

Otherwise, when considering the reads you've given and options you've suggested, I think they're very open. Things like shading Wonko and voting Aman give me pause (though that last one sort of makes sense to me).

Idk. It's the kind of read where I wish I had time to look into it more, but just don't.

[Stick. she/her]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Am back, but there's not actually a lot to explain. I think it's a posturing thing, mostly. The line that gave me the red flag was

^this one-- he's already been asked twice, by you and me, and I'm pretty sure if he had anything he would have already said it. So, this looks like you're setting him up for failure. I have switched over to believing in v!Exp so this by comparison doesn't look good. I think it's pretty obvious that was a case of 'reaction test that didn't go anywhere', as they often don't.

Otherwise, when considering the reads you've given and options you've suggested, I think they're very open. Things like shading Wonko and voting Aman give me pause (though that last one sort of makes sense to me).

Idk. It's the kind of read where I wish I had time to look into it more, but just don't.

yeah they havent responded to it yet and instead provided a gut read last eod and i assumed it was because they were short on time

i still wanna hear it

shading wonko? :p. i think ive been quite vocal in village reading him since last cycle

[Mat he/him]

4 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

shading wonko? :p. i think ive been quite vocal in village reading him since last cycle

Exhibit A:

7 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Who did TJ have PMs with other than wonko 

Exhibit B:

6 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

PMs from last minigame carry over to this one, so if there was knowledge of TJ having made PMs with people there it should be shared 

I don’t think TJ would have role claimed to anybody except for maaaybe wonko, because I know that wonko had been offering people role swaps and even just TJ refusing the role swap would’ve maybe pointed towards him having a stronger role that he felt the need to hide 

 

[Stick. she/her]

Oh yea true, can’t deny that 

edit:

he’s since then clarified he wasn’t in contact with tj so the point is moot fmpov but I understand this interpretation coming from you 

edit1:

I’ll vote between Aman TKN and Drake today

Edited September 5, 2023 by _Stick_

[Mat he/him]

12 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

he’s since then clarified he wasn’t in contact with tj so the point is moot fmpov but I understand this interpretation coming from you 

Well, actually no-- the fact that Wonko wasn't in contact with TJ doesn't change that you were implying he was. e!you wouldn't have known that any more than v!you would have. So your point is moot, not mine.

...Now that I type that out, I think that might have been what you were saying. Not sure :P.

[Stick. she/her]

Indeed  

[Experience he/him]

Stick

Give me a few hours to get stuff done

[Ashbringer he/him]

Part of my theory on why TKN is Jabberwock is that TKN might not necessarily have understood how the Time Curse works. They weren't a huge part of the C3 discussions.

Also they haven't said much in their defense...

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

@_Stick_, I lost my post, but @Amanuensis can confirm that I used my action to make a PM last cycle.

Also, I haven’t taken a non-PM action yet, so I don't know if it doesn’t affect all actions, but so far as I can tell, it didn’t affect any of my free actions. 

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Part of my theory on why TKN is Jabberwock is that TKN might not necessarily have understood how the Time Curse works. They weren't a huge part of the C3 discussions.

Also they haven't said much in their defense...

Haven't really been on too much, I was in class. I was working on a post but lost it, so this one will have to make do.

[Mat he/him]

I will note that Wonko PMd both me and Ash yesterday, meaning he had at least two action slots. So I don't think that's necessarily clearing.

[Stick. she/her]

5 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

@_Stick_, I lost my post, but @Amanuensis can confirm that I used my action to make a PM last cycle.

Also, I haven’t taken a non-PM action yet, so I don't know if it doesn’t affect all actions, but so far as I can tell, it didn’t affect any of my free actions. 

Haven't really been on too much, I was in class. I was working on a post but lost it, so this one will have to make do.

im like 100% sure the jabberwock gets more than one action per cycle FWIW

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I will note that Wonko PMd both me and Ash yesterday, meaning he had at least two action slots. So I don't think that's necessarily clearing.

at least 3, i got one too

[Mat he/him]

That's... weird. He told me he got 'an extra action slot'. @Wonko the Sane, repeating the call for you to say what your role does :P. Or like, whether or not PMing is an ability you have.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

I'm pretty sure that if it had Brillig in the title, it's from an ability, but Aman can confirm that my PM wasn't one of those.

[Stick. she/her]

1 minute ago, The Known Novel said:

I'm pretty sure that if it had Brillig in the title, it's from an ability, but Aman can confirm that my PM wasn't one of those.

only exp had those iirc and they said theyd be starting a pm with like everybody

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

*sigh*. I was afraid people would compare notes. All right, I will begrudgingly acknowledge that PMing is a power I have. I also got an additional action last turn. I’m trying to be cautious with saying too much here, because I have a habit of doing that, and because I have a longstanding, never-yet-broken playstyle rule that I don’t tell lies in SE. (Within reasonable exception; for example, if e!Wonko is forced point-blank to answer a question about his alignment, he’s allowed to lie in that case.)

Stick, you are incorrect; at least two other players have claimed the same role as Experience, so presumably they have the same power, and then there’s me, with a completely different PM power.

EDIT: The Shard glitched out on me and doubled this post; I “hid” one of them, and I no longer see it; I hope that hides it for everyone, and not just me?

Edited September 5, 2023 by Wonko the Sane

[Stick. she/her]

10 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

only exp had those iirc and they said theyd be starting a pm with like everybody

* that I know of

at least now you can eliminate partnerships wrt me  

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

5 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

honestly im midly confused as to why people dont think im the jabberwock off that kill

I voted for your noose, silly goose! Are you so tough that's not enough? Think you to ignore my war? Dastardly trick by dastardly Stick!

5 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Proposal: we check whether a villager has it by asking the holder to kill someone we vote for. If the Jabberwock has it, no one extra will die. If someone besides the stated target dies, there's a good chance a Bandersnatch has it. If the target dies, it could still be a Bandersnatch, but we'll at least have ruled out Jabberwock.

I don't see this is a plus which is a bit sus, but I'll chalk it up to a difference of opinion. Were I in dominion, I wouldn't waste a shot, I ought make haste with it! Seeing how the here and now is short: 2 turns to thwart the Bandersnatch and catch the Jabberwock before the clock runs down for the town. If we're indeed of the same creed and on the same team, it would seem you'd rather peace of mind than a win for our kind.

4 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

ok maybe i am wrong but idk why jabberwock!tkn would kill someone cursed by time when he'd know, being cursed by time himself, that it is a thing that exists in this minigame too. like i said, i assumed it ended with the last one

Stick is still my pick but I agree she has a point here, Wonko be a dear and be clear about this case to chase TKN in our PM?

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Part of my theory on why TKN is Jabberwock is that TKN might not necessarily have understood how the Time Curse works. They weren't a huge part of the C3 discussions.

Is it really best to chance the dance on the enemy having messed up?

Edited September 5, 2023 by DrakeMarshall

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

31 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I don't see this is a plus which is a bit sus, but I'll chalk it up to a difference of opinion. Were I in dominion, I wouldn't waste a shot, I ought make haste with it! Seeing how the here and now is short: 2 turns to thwart the Bandersnatch and catch the Jabberwock before the clock runs down for the town. If we're indeed of the same creed and on the same team, it would seem you'd rather peace of mind than a win for our kind.

I don’t see the two as irreconcilable; just pick a target we suspect of being an enemy. It doesn’t change the kill itself, but calling the shot in advance lets us softly confirm who has the sword at the same time, with the only risk being some protect action in Bandersnatch hands — something I think we can agree is unlikely.

34 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Stick is still my pick but I agree she has a point here, Wonko be a dear and be clear about this case to chase TKN in our PM?

My argument to Stick was more or less the same as Ash’s argument in the thread; TKN had been largely inactive and could easily have missed the information about the Curse. I was, however, motivated to make my argument due to some evidence I had that I did not share with Stick. That evidence has been substantially weakened since then, and I’m no longer fully confident in a TKN exe.

As an alternative exe, I will propose Quintessential. A number of you are aware of a certain test I’ve been using to softly confirm alignment; Quinn is among the players who did not pass it. She did not directly fail it, either, though, so this is a very soft vote — I’m willing to direct it elsewhere if another viable alternative to TKN presents itself.

[Stick. she/her]

45 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

1) I voted for your noose, silly goose! Are you so tough that's not enough? Think you to ignore my war? Dastardly trick by dastardly Stick!

I don't see this is a plus which is a bit sus, but I'll chalk it up to a difference of opinion. Were I in dominion, I wouldn't waste a shot, I ought make haste with it! Seeing how the here and now is short: 2 turns to thwart the Bandersnatch and catch the Jabberwock before the clock runs down for the town. If we're indeed of the same creed and on the same team, it would seem you'd rather peace of mind than a win for our kind.

2) Stick is still my pick but I agree she has a point here, Wonko be a dear and be clear about this case to chase TKN in our PM?

Is it really best to chance the dance on the enemy having messed up?

1) yea as soon as I said that I figured that was why you must be voting me, after which my follow up thought was that elims wouldn’t care so much about voting off the jabberwock as it doesn’t count towards parity for their wincon. My third thought here was that the fact that you hadn’t elucidated these thoughts or explained the vote in this context diminishes any cred that I would be giving you here because now I can’t verify if this is actually why you’re voting me. 
 

2) wonko’s point is just that TKN may not have been paying enough attention to the Time stuff, and wonko apparently has first hand experience to back this up (given that he was/is cursed by time too) 

Edited September 5, 2023 by _Stick_
Autocorrect ruins lives

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

6 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

I don’t see the two as irreconcilable; just pick a target we suspect of being an enemy. It doesn’t change the kill itself, but calling the shot in advance lets us softly confirm who has the sword at the same time, with the only risk being some protect action in Bandersnatch hands — something I think we can agree is unlikely.

One equals two, think you? Two kills spills more blood than one or none, it's true!

8 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

As an alternative exe, I will propose Quintessential. A number of you are aware of a certain test I’ve been using to softly confirm alignment; Quinn is among the players who did not pass it. She did not directly fail it, either, though, so this is a very soft vote — I’m willing to direct it elsewhere if another viable alternative to TKN presents itself.

Who else among this set? Who else not tested yet?

I have no inclination or information regarding the potential of Quintessential. All else held equal, I'd rather a sequel. I'd sooner get to know them before I throw them to death by shibboleth. Still, there are worse options to converse.

37 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

1) yea as soon as I said that I figured that why you must be voting me, after which my follow up thought was that elims wouldn’t care so much about voting off the jabberwock as it doesn’t count towards parity for their wincon. My third thought here was that the fact that you hadn’t elucidated these thoughts or explained the vote in this context diminishes any cred that I would be giving you here because now I can’t verify if this is actually why you’re voting me.

I vote to float my boat. Alas, the inscrutable is irrefutable

39 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

2) wonko’s point is just that TKN may not have been paying enough attention to the Time stuff, and wonko apparently has first hand experience to back this up (given that he was/is cursed by time too) 

Time stuff, time fluff. Anybody know how it works, what are the perks? Does the curse work in reverse? Hard to draw a conclusion with such confusion about what to even believe in. We can analyze the action, but it all seems a distraction.

[Mat he/him]

I wish I could vote two people at once ngl

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

15 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I wish I could vote two people at once ngl

And I wish for a pinkish fish on a dish, but fate's taunt is that we can't all get what we want!