Quick Fix Game 67: Down the Rabbit-Hole

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Well, Ash, maybe you shouldn’t apologize, because I’m lacking in victory points and having the most is probably the ultimate goal

I’m personally in favor of a mass claim from last minigame but obviously I’m biased in that regard :P.

I could do it for everyone, if you like.  

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

I could do it for everyone, if you like.  

Are PMs still closed off unless with action? You could tell me there if not. Or just out everyone, yeah  I don’t think it really matters but some might like to preserve secrecy. I know at least two non public ones.

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Are PMs still closed off unless with action? You could tell me there if not. Or just out everyone, yeah  I don’t think it really matters but some might like to preserve secrecy. I know at least two non public ones.

Pretty sure the PM rules are the same, since those were established in the signup announcement, not in a minigame.

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

Yes, PMs still cost an action unless you are told otherwise in your GM PM.

[Experience he/him]

Sorry Mat xD

And darn. 

So...a three cycle normalish game, this time with powers only in the first cycle? Hmm.

Prob 3 elims with the sk. Means that at least one villager has to have a kill role or we can't win. Unless there's only two elims.

 

[Mat he/him]

17 minutes ago, Experience said:

So...a three cycle normalish game, this time with powers only in the first cycle? Hmm.

Prob 3 elims with the sk. Means that at least one villager has to have a kill role or we can't win. Unless there's only two elims.

Special powers C4. Normal powers for those with roles after, assuming you’re right about roles existing. Which is likely.

I’d lean more towards two, as betting balance on a CS shooting right isn’t a reliable game design. But that wasn’t what was advertised for this game, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edit: @Fifth Scholar pretty sure that the purple faction should be People and not Animals in the writeup

Edited September 4, 2023 by Matrim's Dice

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

47 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

All right, @Sart @The Known Novel, get out here: Which one of you didn't eat your Cake??? Why I oughta...

I ate my cake. Sorry. :/

[Sart he/him]

51 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Yeah I was 

I had a really wacky role, which essentially let me mimic Stick's ability to block people from joining for Tea. Except either I completely misinterpreted how the role worked which I don't think I did, or Mr Time decided to mess with me, because instead of preventing Sart from joining for Tea a second time it went back in time to C1 and blocked him there.

Or something.

So... sorry about that Sart. And potentially you Wonko, if that somehow 4D-chessed Sart out of being able to switch sizes. Might be able to make it up to you though 

This is due to many things, one of which is just a Me Thing and one of which was me maybe accidentally bulldozing several best-laid plans.

Precisely what happened. Due to the temporal nonsense, I never had Cake at any point, and thus couldn't get smaller.

[|TJ| he/him]

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

But this should be a more standardish game minus the brilig madness

Sorta like our first game, MR42, where we needed to kill Bleeder before we killed the last elim. 

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

@|TJ| on a scale of 1-10, rate your enjoyment of Wit choosing four separate colors in the cards doc :eyes:

xD It was not that confusing because it was only me and them for the majority of the game and wonko chose a completely distinct color. witless chose shades of blue-green. also, they were quite busy so not much content to be confused about :P.

alright, I just need to know if anyone was 8 of spades. 

the reads in this cycle could be muddled because most of the players would be discussing about min-game 1 results but we'll see. 

2 hours ago, Experience said:

Means that at least one villager has to have a kill role or we can't win.

subconscious thinking of threats to elims Experience

[Mat he/him]

37 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Sorta like our first game, MR42, where we needed to kill Bleeder before we killed the last elim. 

xD It was not that confusing because it was only me and them for the majority of the game and wonko chose a completely distinct color. witless chose shades of blue-green. also, they were quite busy so not much content to be confused about :P.

the reads in this cycle could be muddled because most of the players would be discussing about min-game 1 results but we'll see. 

subconscious thinking of threats to elims Experience

We lost that, I recall. Let’s do better this time  

*Pretends not to be disappointed that you don’t seem surprised I know about that*

Hopefully that dies down after this turn. Ideally we focus on discussing the players actually playing— that was what I was getting at in the post Quinn flagged C1, where I said I didn’t like how much discussion was focused on inactives and self centered votes. We were completely ignoring the people who were posting until one in particular stopped posting but it was a faction (mini)game so that’s forgivable. Here though, reads should be made.

I’m okay with the Exp vote based on PM vibes. Reserving judgement since I feel like I hop on Exp too quickly too often but he feels to me like he’s trying too hard to appear to be Not Elim.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Matrim's Dice

[|TJ| he/him]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

*Pretends not to be disappointed that you don’t seem surprised I know about that*

Waitaminit did you have 'read only' access to our doc? I just assumed you found out about it through some version of a dead doc or something...

[Ashbringer he/him]

You know something interesting?

It's entirely possible that no one wins this round. Jabberwock needs X players to die, Creatures need X+1, Bandersnatches need... (14-X)/2 - all within a neat Y = 3 cycles. Not sure who that math favors, but it's not the Creatures. Not on paper, at least, but paper is good. You can make books out of paper. Distros can adjust to that (maybe there's only 2-3 Banders, maybe the Creatures get a bunch of kills to use, maybe someone has a tactical Mayor of a role we'll see soon).

 

...if everyone gets a bunch of kills to use, please use them responsibly 

[Stick. she/her]

I think three elims here is prob unreasonable given we only get three exes and there’s a SK to deal with, because it means that if we correctly exe 2 bandersnatches and the jabberwock in these three cycles consecutively, we still don’t win but neither does the jabberwock nor the bandersnatches, I think? So it’ll come down to a stalemate? 

I agree with exp that there’s probably extra kill power with a villager. Either that or there’s a role more informed than regular villagers somewhere. Without extra KP, if you take into account the exe, the NK and the SK kill - we’d be down to 14 —> 11 —> 8 —> 5 players by the end of the third cycle. 

Im guessing two bandersnatches. A town coinshot to help them dwindle numbers down. The jabberwock might be the informed role here. Kinda like Devo’s role in MR56. 

Anyway, talk more about those PM vibes @Matrim's Dice?

Edited September 4, 2023 by _Stick_
Grammar

[Stick. she/her]

Scars of Hathsin

[Ashbringer he/him]

23 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I think three elims here is prob unreasonable given we only get three exes and there’s a SK to deal with, because it means that if we correctly exe 2 bandersnatches and the jabberwock in these three cycles consecutively, we still don’t win but neither does the jabberwock nor the bandersnatches, I think? So it’ll come down to a stalemate? 

I agree with exp that there’s probably extra kill power with a villager. Either that or there’s a role more informed than regular villagers somewhere. Without extra KP, if you take into account the exe, the NK and the SK kill - we’d be down to 14 —> 11 —> 8 —> 5 players by the end of the third cycle. 

Im guessing two bandersnatches. A town coinshot to help them dwindle numbers down. The jabberwock might be the informed role here. Kinda like Devo’s role in MR56. 

2 Bandersnatches sounds painful for them. Even if the Madness, the Jabberwock, and their own kill all hit Creatures, that's not enough to actually win, because they need to outnumber. They'd be relying on the Coinshot or similar to fetch them that actual kill.

And if one of them goes down, game over. Unless someone else pulls an MR56 

 

I will vote... xinoehp.

[Stick. she/her]

Ok you have sold me on three bandersnatches and now I’m formally accusing exp of having displayed elimmy TMI

edit:

ive now talked myself out of that read and think exp is village

i think wonko is village

Mat and TJ are not teamed - not a difference check so can be v/v but if i had to sus one it would be TJ first

Ash is outed as not-villager

Edited September 4, 2023 by _Stick_

[Experience he/him]

8 hours ago, |TJ| said:

Sorta like our first game, MR42, where we needed to kill Bleeder before we killed the last elim. 

xD It was not that confusing because it was only me and them for the majority of the game and wonko chose a completely distinct color. witless chose shades of blue-green. also, they were quite busy so not much content to be confused about :P.

alright, I just need to know if anyone was 8 of spades. 

the reads in this cycle could be muddled because most of the players would be discussing about min-game 1 results but we'll see. 

subconscious thinking of threats to elims Experience

It's not very subconscious xD

8 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I’m okay with the Exp vote based on PM vibes. Reserving judgement since I feel like I hop on Exp too quickly too often but he feels to me like he’s trying too hard to appear to be Not Elim.

This kind of feels like an elim trying to appear to sus someone but too afraid to vote as it would bring attention to them? Is that just me?

[Stick. she/her]

12 minutes ago, Experience said:

This kind of feels like an elim trying to appear to sus someone but too afraid to vote as it would bring attention to them? Is that just me?

do you agree with mat's self-assessment that he's been unfairly quick to wagon you lately?

as ive typed that im realising you said this was your first game in a year, no? o.O curious.

[Mat he/him]

8 hours ago, |TJ| said:

Waitaminit did you have 'read only' access to our doc? I just assumed you found out about it through some version of a dead doc or something...

Take another look at that doc. I was the Cheshire Cat, don't you remember?  

8 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Anyway, talk more about those PM vibes @Matrim's Dice?

He made a show about deciding whether or not I was trying to pocket him (even though he's the one who PMd me), and while I could cite some other things in honesty that's the only real one. The others would probably be mostly confbias. 

1 hour ago, Experience said:

This kind of feels like an elim trying to appear to sus someone but too afraid to vote as it would bring attention to them? Is that just me?

Experience :P.

Attention brought :P.

In all seriousness, the soft-elim-read-that-doesn't-get-a-vote is something I do all the time, in both alignments, so read me whatever off of it I guess. I have a history of misreading you and didn't want to do it again /shrug

This vote probably won't stick but we'll see

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

do you agree with mat's self-assessment that he's been unfairly quick to wagon you lately?

as ive typed that im realising you said this was your first game in a year, no? o.O curious.

Not 'lately' in the sense of the past year, but 'lately' in the sense of Exp's recent games  iirc I just jump to e read him faster than I should, kinda like how I did with Alpha when he first started playing

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Alright, what happened with the Queen and Alice?

Also, do we get to keep our PMs?

[Quintessential she/her]

11 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Hopefully that dies down after this turn. Ideally we focus on discussing the players actually playing— that was what I was getting at in the post Quinn flagged C1, where I said I didn’t like how much discussion was focused on inactives and self centered votes. We were completely ignoring the people who were posting until one in particular stopped posting but it was a faction (mini)game so that’s forgivable. Here though, reads should be made.

I’m okay with the Exp vote based on PM vibes. Reserving judgement since I feel like I hop on Exp too quickly too often but he feels to me like he’s trying too hard to appear to be Not Elim.

Ahhh yeah I can see that; sorry about last (mini)game, I suspect I'm somewhat responsible for the train on you : P

Also, when did Exp open the PM with you? Because he opened a PM with me at the start of this cycle, so unless yours was from before, he must have some kind of PM related ability. (I haven't gotten any vibes from him yet, basically all he's said is that he was kind of unsure how to read people because it's been so long since he played.. which is actually a little weird given the interactions between him and you, Mat, but I think he sent that PM before all of that happened.)

9 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

i think wonko is village

Ash is outed as not-villager

Wonko has said exactly nothing about this minigame so far, so I think it's a bit premature to label him definitely village (edit: I reread that and realized you weren't saying it quite as strongly as I thought but my point still stands). (for reference, I've quoted all of his posts so far below. Three about the previous minigame, one about PM rules staying the same).

15 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

All right, @Sart @The Known Novel, get out here: Which one of you didn't eat your Cake??? Why I oughta...

15 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Ash, you weren't a Tea Party member last minigame, were you? I was so afraid you'd turn out to be.

14 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

I could do it for everyone, if you like.  

(edit: this was referring to revealing roles from the previous minigame)

14 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Pretty sure the PM rules are the same, since those were established in the signup announcement, not in a minigame.

Also, if Ash is hinting that he's not a villager, doesn't that mean we should vote him?

It's possible I'm missing something that makes that Not a Good Idea so if I am please lmk. I guess it's also possible Ash is just trolling us lol especially because village win-con is to kill all non-villagers

Not a super solid vote but I'm fine with it being there where it is for now.

36 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Also, do we get to keep our PMs?

Pretty sure we get to keep our PMs, yeah.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Quintessential

[Experience he/him]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Experience :P.

Attention brought :P.

Thank you :P.

And yeah mat and I tend to elim read each other, it just happens lol

Mat defended ash in pm. I don't think that's anything, unless ash flips. And even if, it was barely a defense so meh.

Quinn I pm a bunch, and yes I have pm powers, but that doesn't mean I'm any good at reads or actually playing

[Stick. she/her]

9 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Wonko has said exactly nothing about this minigame so far, so I think it's a bit premature to label him definitely village (edit: I reread that and realized you weren't saying it quite as strongly as I thought but my point still stands). (for reference, I've quoted all of his posts so far below. Three about the previous minigame, one about PM rules staying the same).

My wonko read is basically that he’s still hung up on the last game and hasn’t made any (visible) efforts to solve the current one. I would expect elim!wonko to try to appear “villagery” by tying to solve here (maybe throwing out some distro speculation or a read or two) given how driven he was to achieve his wincon last game. I will say this read is exclusive to wonko only for obvious reasons and I’m not applying to, say, Xino or TKN, who have also only spoken about the previous game. 

[Quintessential she/her]

18 minutes ago, Experience said:

Quinn I pm a bunch, and yes I have pm powers, but that doesn't mean I'm any good at reads or actually playing

Yeah no I'm not generally great at reads either, I get it. I wasn't saying it was weird you were PMing so much, just wanted to figure out whether there were PM roles floating around (because I don't think there were last minigame? could be wrong about that though)

Anyway, if it doesn't give any additional information away, what's the name of your role? I have a theory that the roles in this game are gonna be named from the poem, so like slithy toves, borogoves, mome (edit: or is it mome raths?), maybe a jubjub bird or a tumtum tree or something, and I wanna see if that pans out.

Also if there's a village kill role, it may have something to do with the vorpal sword, or there may be a vorpal sword item that allows its wielder a kill each cycle, or something like that. Though last minigame had so many items that I think it's less likely this one will have them.

But yeah, given how many of the roles and items from last minigame were drawn from the original text it seems likely they will be this time too.

13 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

My wonko read is basically that he’s still hung up on the last game and hasn’t made any (visible) efforts to solve the current one. I would expect elim!wonko to try to appear “villagery” by tying to solve here (maybe throwing out some distro speculation or a read or two) given how driven he was to achieve his wincon last game. I will say this read is exclusive to wonko only for obvious reasons and I’m not applying to, say, Xino or TKN, who have also only spoken about the previous game. 

I see your point but I also think village!Wonko would be genuinely trying to solve and gather info, so the fact that he's not feels weirder to me than if he were (though, granted, I've never played a game with Wonko before this one so I could certainly be wrong about how he plays when he's village). It's also possible he's just busy though lol if I had to read him now I'd say he's ever so slightly suspicious but that's subject to change as soon as he says anything about the game itself.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Quintessential

[|TJ| he/him]

3 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

My wonko read is basically that he’s still hung up on the last game and hasn’t made any (visible) efforts to solve the current one. I would expect elim!wonko to try to appear “villagery” by tying to solve here (maybe throwing out some distro speculation or a read or two) given how driven he was to achieve his wincon last game. I will say this read is exclusive to wonko only for obvious reasons and I’m not applying to, say, Xino or TKN, who have also only spoken about the previous game. 

Mild disagree on this - as he was someone who has put a lot of effort into winning the previous game, I think it's quite natural for the mind to be hung up on the details of the game and care about the specifics of the current game later. 

@Matrim's Dice, why did you defend Ash to in Exp's PMs?