Misting Feruchemist or Ferring Mistborn?

[Mistchemist16]

This a little would you rather. Seeing Twinborn and Fullborn made me wonder about the in between area: a Feruchemist with one Misting ability or a Mistborn with one Ferring ability. Even if they can’t be naturally born, lerasium would probably work on the right subjects and Hemalurgic definitely would. Which made me curious : what could you do with the full lineup and a metal to Compound? 

So I ask you, which would you rather be and why? Which metal would you Compound? For the purposes of this question, no Hemalurgic spikes will be used: just Lerasium on a natural Ferring/Feruchemist but at the lower power level.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[MangoBoi101 he/him]

This is interesting although I belive that on a general basis Feruchamy is more powerful then the mistborn powers  as for the compounding I don't see why you would choose anything but gold its just that powerful.

[StanLemon]

I'd go with Misting Feruchemist. The day to day benefits of being a Feruchemist are just too good in my opinion. Normally I'm all for Compounding Gold, but in this case I would go for Steel. Steel Allomancy has such a good synergy with Feruchemical Iron and the enhanced speed would be very useful 

[alder24]

Feruchemy is far more practical in daily life. And I take steel for compounding, infinite speed is just so useful and powerful.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Mistchemist16 said:

This a little would you rather. Seeing Twinborn and Fullborn made me wonder about the in between area: a Feruchemist with one Misting ability or a Mistborn with one Ferring ability. Even if they can’t be naturally born, lerasium would probably work on the right subjects and Hemalurgic definitely would. Which made me curious : what could you do with the full lineup and a metal to Compound? 

So I ask you, which would you rather be and why? Which metal would you Compound? For the purposes of this question, no Hemalurgic spikes will be used: just Lerasium on a natural Ferring/Feruchemist but at the lower power level.

They do exist

Spoiler

Donnovan Kidwell

Is it possible to be a full Feruchemist and a Misting or vice versa, like a lopsided Twinborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Possible, yes. Highly unlikely, but possible.

General Twitter 2015 (Sept. 3, 2015)

Personally I've posited the name of Halfborn for these types of individuals.

 

I'd go with a coinshot+Feruchemist myself.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

Honestly I'd rather be a fullborn (or even just a few of each) that can't compound. That said, it's a tough choice between compounding necrosil or steel, or being able to burn bendalloy, but I went with the bendalloy.

[Returned he/him]

I would choose Misting + Feruchemist without hesitation, though I maintain that members of the forum tend to really underestimate how much storing attributes usually sucks, and how much time you'd have to spend doing it to get a useful amount into a metalmind.

There are a lot of good options for compounding, but I think that being able to compound zinc is one of the most versatile. Lots of attributes allow for cool tricks but are still pretty narrow in what tools they offer to accomplish tasks or solve problems. But mental speed, especially in the sense that it grants flashes of inspired insight (instead of requiring the same effort but just sped up, as with Steelrunning), would allow you to figure out ways to address any issue effectively based on the full suite of resources available to you. Plus you could figure it out really, really quickly and on demand.

The "on demand" part is what causes it to edge out gold for me, because to really get the benefits you'd have to be constantly compounding it, and that's dangerous in undefined ways. And with my superior planning abilities, I think I'd be in serious physical danger beyond my abilities to handle pretty rarely.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Returned

[Quantus he/him]

Leecher/Feruchemist, but that's making a lot of my own assumptions on how Fortune (and Fortune Compounding) might work, but i suspect it would make at least as hard to kill as a a bloodmaker.  Gold might be the only other thing in the running at all.  

[Mistchemist16]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

They do exist

  Reveal hidden contents

Donnovan Kidwell

Is it possible to be a full Feruchemist and a Misting or vice versa, like a lopsided Twinborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Possible, yes. Highly unlikely, but possible.

General Twitter 2015 (Sept. 3, 2015)

Personally I've posited the name of Halfborn for these types of individuals.

 

I'd go with a coinshot+Feruchemist myself.

They can be naturally born with that mix? Interesting. I always thought that because Allomancy and Feruchemy genes interefered with each other, the two systems would match barring tampering like Hemalurgy or Lerasium. Hence, Ferrings would result from the union of a Fullchemist and a Misting. 
 

But I guess there’s no strict reason it would be impossible. What sort of parentage do you think would be necessary to pull that off and how might it compare with making Ferrings?

Oh and Halfborn is a pretty cool term for these types. I’m also rather fond of the term Mistchemist and a bit less for Ferruborn for the specific types. If you have any suggestions for better terminology, I’d be happy to hear. Also imagine having to name the 32 Halfborn types, especially since Twinborn Compounders also exist.

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[Returned he/him]

10 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

I always thought that because Allomancy and Feruchemy genes interefered with each other, the two systems would match barring tampering like Hemalurgy or Lerasium. Hence, Ferrings would result from the union of a Fullchemist and a Misting. 

But I guess there’s no strict reason it would be impossible. What sort of parentage do you think would be necessary to pull that off and how might it compare with making Ferrings?

The Lord Ruler was explicitly concerned about someone being born with powers from both Feruchemy and Allomancy, which was why he tried to exterminate the Terris people and later to breed Feruchemy out of their population. Since he gained his knowledge of the Metallic Arts from his brief Ascension I'd assume that his concern was realistic, even if unlikely to actually happen.

As for parentage I don't think we need anything unusual. As the Feruchemical and Allomantic traits weaken in the population we see fewer and fewer Mistborn until they just aren't born naturally. In era 2 the Terris are trying to work in the opposite direction, to consolidate Feruchemical ability in the hopes of giving rise to new full Feruchemists. So to get a Halfborn I think we'd just need one parent with a strong enough Allomantic/Feruchemical trait to allow for a Mistborn/full Feruchemist in their offspring and another with a weaker trait in the other art. Or even both parents with strong traits in their respective arts, since either could probably produce a Misting or Ferring normally. I don't think we know enough about the heritability of Allomancy and Feruchemy to get more specific than that, though.

I'm curious about how a Twinborn's traits might be passed on (could they produce Twinborn children with only their own abilities in the parentage?), but Twinborn are so rare that I doubt any in-world information on it exists.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Returned

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, Returned said:

I would choose Misting + Feruchemist without hesitation, though I maintain that members of the forum tend to really underestimate how much storing attributes usually sucks, and how much time you'd have to spend doing it to get a useful amount into a metalmind.

Yeah, definitely... but that's why I'd go Feruchemist + Gold Misting. Health is a huge pain to store, but the other feruchemical powers I'd use are either much easier to store or actually have side benefits (storing brass is good for hot days, iron makes you lighter, zinc to make boring meetings pass seemingly faster). Bendalloy is also useful to store, I'd think.

Storing a lot of things might also be easier for people who have sedentary jobs.

As for the other hard to store powers... I don't have a lot of call for physical speed/strength in day to day life, so I'd store a small amount for emergencies and then stop (and hopefully never have to tap it). And storing physical speed/strength while reading documents or listening to a presentation might not cost much.

Edited January 20, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[Mistchemist16]

1 hour ago, Returned said:

The Lord Ruler was explicitly concerned about someone being born with powers from both Feruchemy and Allomancy, which was why he tried to exterminate the Terris people and later to breed Feruchemy out of their population. Since he gained his knowledge of the Metallic Arts from his brief Ascension I'd assume that his concern was realistic, even if unlikely to actually happen.

I imagine he was more concerned about Fullborn, which could easily be explained by the union of a Mistborn and a Fullchemist. Even Twinborn could theoretically fit this concern by indicating his Compounding trick or having a more narrow copy of it. You couldn’t definitely use this to claim Halfborn are naturally possible

1 hour ago, Returned said:

As for parentage I don't think we need anything unusual. As the Feruchemical and Allomantic traits weaken in the population we see fewer and fewer Mistborn until they just aren't born naturally. In era 2 the Terris are trying to work in the opposite direction, to consolidate Feruchemical ability in the hopes of giving rise to new full Feruchemists. So to get a Halfborn I think we'd just need one parent with a strong enough Allomantic/Feruchemical trait to allow for a Mistborn/full Feruchemist in their offspring and another with a weaker trait in the other art. Or even both parents with strong traits in their respective arts, since either could probably produce a Misting or Ferring normally. I don't think we know enough about the heritability of Allomancy and Feruchemy to get more specific than that, though.

I'm curious about how a Twinborn's traits might be passed on (could they produce Twinborn children with only their own abilities in the parentage?), but Twinborn are so rare that I doubt any in-world information on it exists.

Funny. I never actually considered whether a Mistborn/Feruchemist match could get a Halfborn. Also, check my lore on this, but does a Mistborn need their immediate parents to be Mistborn? I don’t believe so. Even if we rule out Vin because of Preservation’s tampering, I don’t see any reason why Zane’s mother or Shan’s parents must’ve been Mistborn. Not to mention Kelsier and the unnamed ones from time to time. If that’s the case, then there’s no reason a Misting/Ferring/Twinborn with the right parents and partner couldn’t produce a Mistborn/Feruchemist. Unfortunately, the spiritual genetics component means we will probably never be able to answer that question

1 hour ago, Returned said:

I’m curious about how a Twinborn's traits might be passed on (could they produce Twinborn children with only their own abilities in the parentage?), but Twinborn are so rare that I doubt any in-world information on it exists.

I’d say it’s simpler than you think. Barring the Mistborn/Feruchemist gene potential, the offspring could be a Misting, Ferring, Twinborn, or normal person. Also, Brandon has already said that Mustangs and Ferrings don’t need to have the same metal as either parent

Snipexe

Does Allomancy's lineage play a factor in which kind of Misting they are?

Brandon Sanderson

Not usually.

Orem Signing (March 16, 2019)

So you really only have to worry about the genes that determine the amount of metals usable by the Metalborn. 

[Frustration]

6 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Also, check my lore on this, but does a Mistborn need their immediate parents to be Mistborn?

Nope

[Returned he/him]

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

I imagine he was more concerned about Fullborn, which could easily be explained by the union of a Mistborn and a Fullchemist. Even Twinborn could theoretically fit this concern by indicating his Compounding trick or having a more narrow copy of it. You couldn’t definitely use this to claim Halfborn are naturally possible

I wasn't referencing this to talk about Halfborn, but rather to point out that "Allomancy and Feruchemy traits interfere with each other" doesn't eliminate the possibility of a child inheriting both traits. Were that the case, the Lord Ruler's actions wouldn't track. Whether or not such offspring could potentially be Halfborn is a separate issue. I don't see any reason they'd be more or less likely to be Fullborn, Mistborn, full Feruchemist, Misting, Ferring, or Twinborn than the normal inheritance patterns would suggest, and Halfborn seems (to me) like it would just be another point on that continuum of possible outcomes.

 

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Also, check my lore on this, but does a Mistborn need their immediate parents to be Mistborn? I don’t believe so. Even if we rule out Vin because of Preservation’s tampering, I don’t see any reason why Zane’s mother or Shan’s parents must’ve been Mistborn. Not to mention Kelsier and the unnamed ones from time to time. If that’s the case, then there’s no reason a Misting/Ferring/Twinborn with the right parents and partner couldn’t produce a Mistborn/Feruchemist. Unfortunately, the spiritual genetics component means we will probably never be able to answer that question

The don't have to be. The "strength" of Allomantic traits doesn't need to be expressed in a person at all for them to pass it on to children, only present. We don't know a lot about the mechanisms of this, but the Straff/Zane example is pretty clear in this direction, as is Spook's case. The "strength" of those traits (latent or not) hasn't been all that well defined but you are correct that even a person with no Metallic Arts powers could produce a child that does have them. The era 2 Terris efforts are to increase the "strength" of Feruchemical ability in their population, the reverse of the dilution which has led to only Mistings being born, and never any more Mistborn.

 

2 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

I’d say it’s simpler than you think. Barring the Mistborn/Feruchemist gene potential, the offspring could be a Misting, Ferring, Twinborn, or normal person. Also, Brandon has already said that Mustangs and Ferrings don’t need to have the same metal as either parent

Yes, that is correct. We certainly know that Mistings and Ferrings don't need to have the same metals as their parents, and that the parents don't need to have powers at all. My curiosity is more about whether or not, for a Twinborn, one trait is more likely than the other to be passed on or if there are other factors which influence the process. I'm thinking of Khriss' comment to Wax that he is one of only a few (three? I don't remember offhand) Crashers ever to have existed. Twinborn are so rare, even compared with Mistborn, Feruchemists, Mistings, and Ferrings, that it's hard to feel confident about guesses regarding them and the heritability of their powers.

You're probably right that there aren't other meaningful factors beyond the Allomantic/Feruchemical traits. We might learn more in era 3, but the whole issue might just be superseded by Hemalurgy and medallion technology.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Returned

[Tglassy]

Misting Feruchemist, as most here.  And Pewter. And I'll tell you why.  

Steel is a very, very close second.  Those two, Pewter and Steel, are my main draws to Allomancy.  But I'd go with Pewter for these reasons:  Gold, Steel, Pewter, Tin.  

1.  Burning Pewter, you compound Strength, and you can compound the Allomantic Strength, not the strength in your muscles.  This means you can compound strength that doesn't make your muscles grow when you tap it.  So you can actually have the infinite strength, without the downside of getting so big you can't move. 

2.  By compounding normal strength, you get a limitless reserve of bigger muscles.  You can basically sculpt your body to be the perfect beach bod at all times.  No exercise needed.

3.  Gold.  Pewter helps with healing.  So burn Pewter, put the extra healing in a Gold mind, no getting sick.  All the benefits, none of the drawbacks.  

4.  Steel.  Same as gold.  Pewter grants extra speed, and when it comes to all out sprints, it is a LOT, as shown in a previous thread.  Vin could move faster than a galloping horse.  Just store that extra speed while burning pewter, and you don't have to be slow. 

5.  Tin.  I know Pewter doesn't help with senses, but it does grant a better sense of balance, which can be stored with Tin. 

So basically, just burn pewter all day long, power storing your attributes.  You'll move normal and feel normal while burning, but you're storing up the unused Pewter abilites for later.  And you always have the perfect beach bod and have as much strength as you need in the moment to do literally anything.  Need to lift a car off the road?  Tap Strength.  Need to break down a brick wall?  Tap Strength.   Accidentally got caught on a train track and here comes the train?  Tap Strength.  Tap all the strength.  And don't give me this "Pewter grants strength not toughness" crap.  If your muscles are strong enough to lift the train and crush it into a tiny ball with your bare hands, they're strong enough to withstand getting hit by one.  

Plus, you'd have all the other Feruchemical abilities, all of which make life just that much easier.  

[Treamayne]

Did we ever find out how many of Tindwyl's 20 children were Feruchemists? That might help devise some math for inheritance rates.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

12 hours ago, Quantus said:

Leecher/Feruchemist, but that's making a lot of my own assumptions on how Fortune (and Fortune Compounding) might work, but i suspect it would make at least as hard to kill as a a bloodmaker.  Gold might be the only other thing in the running at all.  

I am with you on this.  Pewter allomancy being a close close second.  In game terms the MAG turns your dice rolls into a game of yahtzee where you get to reroll your dice pretty well every roll of the entire game.  

In universe I am sure the spideysense is more applicable.  

But what actually convinced me on this was when my kid had me read Alcatraz and I fell in love with the "arriving late to things" talent.  It would be more of a flavor thing.   But how dope to think if you just follow your gut and stutter this step or that step you can be dodging bullets.  

The fact that you have all of the other feruchemical traits stored away only makes it better.  You would be getting feelings of when you need to actively be tapping certain things for everything to go your way in a sense and it would just make everything you do so much more efficient because your gut is never wrong.  

Then you toss on that leeching and feeling when and who to use it on. Awesome combo.  

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

Personally, I’d go with a Ferring Mistborn. I understand that Feruchemy is way better for everyday life, but I think about these things in a combat sense. It almost doesn’t matter which metal is compounded in this combination, as most of them are pretty powerful, but gold is the obvious choice. A mistborn, even without era two metals, is extremely effective in combat. Sure, a Feruchemist is good in combat, but only with enough attributes stored. So imagine the raw power of a mistborn without the fact that they actually have to worry about a lucky hit killing them. Gold compounding would make a mistborn unkillable, making them the perfect combat machine, with flight from steel and iron and incredible strength from pewter. Not to mention the time bubbles and leeching they could do in a fight with other metalborn. It’s just overpowered. And sure compounded steel or gold or even pewter as a fullchemist misting is pretty combat effective, it’s not nearly as useful as being a mistborn ferring from a combat perspective, in my opinion.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

I'd go with a Nicroburst-Feruchemist. The possibilities of infinite Investiture along with the other Spiritual Feruchemical metals. I might be able to make infinite Unsealed Metalminds.

If I'm a Nicroburst-Feruchemist in the Cosmere than even more possibilities arise due to using Unsealed Metalminds or Hemalurgy to gain access to all the other Allomantic powers and more.

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:59 PM, JustQuestin2004 said:

I'd go with a Nicroburst-Feruchemist. The possibilities of infinite Investiture along with the other Spiritual Feruchemical metals. I might be able to make infinite Unsealed Metalminds.

If I'm a Nicroburst-Feruchemist in the Cosmere than even more possibilities arise due to using Unsealed Metalminds or Hemalurgy to gain access to all the other Allomantic powers and more.

 

I think a nicrosil ferring could even steal and store surges from honorblades if they had a second to touch it.  Compound it from there for infinite use of the surges.  

Nicrosil compounding could likely be the easiest route to holding all 10 surges.  You could spike yourself one spike at a time and compound yourself to being a fullborn... if you get a spike with a divine breath you could store that and keep it for yourself as well.  

Nicrosil is going to be super busted once people become more cosmere aware.  

[Frustration]

Just now, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think a nicrosil ferring could even steal and store surges from honorblades if they had a second to touch it.  Compound it from there for infinite use of the surges.

The power would come from the bond, not the users soul, so they couldn't store that.

Now Duralumin could do some things, probably, but Nicrosil, no.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The power would come from the bond, not the users soul, so they couldn't store that.

Now Duralumin could do some things, probably, but Nicrosil, no.

Ah.  Connection issue not the investiture.  I thought that nicrosil just stored the ability to use X Y or Z.  

 

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Ah.  Connection issue not the investiture.  I thought that nicrosil just stored the ability to use X Y or Z.  

 

It does, but you can only store something that's part of your soul, whereas Honorblades are the ones with the power, and they give it to you via Connection.

[Primeival Chaos he/him]

I chose a feruchemist with zinc compounding.

I just think that feruchemy is much more versatile than allomancy, and I'm not going to be in a lot of combat situations, so zinc compounding seems best to me.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

17 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It does, but you can only store something that's part of your soul, whereas Honorblades are the ones with the power, and they give it to you via Connection.

Do you think this is going to make it impossible to use medallion tech to collect perminent abilities given the protagonist potentially being a nicroburst for era 3?  

Can a nicrosil compounder store what is in a medallion or does the medallion not work on the spiritweb more like the honorblades than a hemalurgic spike?