Anniversary Game 8 / AN11: Back to Beginnings

[+Lotus she/her]

I was a little upset when Fifth used she pronouns in the write up when I had had Lion using He  ah well

[Kasimir he/him]

13 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

xD

I guess I'm currently in that post-AG awed buzz after reading @Kasimir's writeup and such. The headspace where I have a whole lot to say but also can articulate none of it :P. But this game was amazing! I think, in retrospect, probably my favorite. Su was an amazing character to play (Praise the Ja!) and I really am sad he died, but I'm glad kel and I could give him a good ending. If there's a way to bring him back somehow, he will return.

I'll read the post-mortem and be back later when I'm hopefully more able to articulate myself  

Praise the Ja!

Pinch-hit write-up brought to you by a lot of tea, concern about how much there was for El to do, and Rise from the Dark Knight Rises OST on loop, so I guess you have a soundtrack if you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

kel out for the last time. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Kasimir
justification

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

Hey y’all :)))

Thanks for the game, GM’s. I had lots of fun despite being dead for a majority of it. 

Some memes:

Spoiler

Edited February 5, 2022 by Szeth_Pancakes

[Ashbringer he/him]

I'm blue da ba dee

@Kasimir I LOVE YOUR WRITEUP (but I won't stop you from going to sleep)

That was fun, everyone  I got to do so many things. 

 

I do have some thoughts - some serious, some jovial, but mostly just about me and not anyone else - that I want to get out at some point. But for now, this was awesome everyone. @Matrim's Dice, @Dannnex, I had a great time being Jaist buddies with you all even if my Ja ended up being a bit different. Same with the rest of my Spiked friends who helped keep me in the game after going slightly defeatist, and @Elbereth and @Fifth Scholar for running a wonderful match - and never giving up on me keeping the curse intact 

Oh, and memes. I have time for memes. 

Spoiler

 

Will we see Scimon Tlag again? Only time willl tell :eyes:

[Haelbarde he/him]

Woo!

Also, I am in fact myself.

Isn't properly written text wonderful? With every capital, comma, apostrophe, period, and question mark in its proper place.

Not to mention the good old elipsis...

Thanks for the write up Kas!

1 hour ago, Elbereth said:

Salmon Meerkat (Kel), for being absolutely insane about everything.

Oh, so Meerkat was Kel, not Kas. That's awkward.  

[Mailliw73 he/him]

3 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

Woo!

Also, I am in fact myself.

Isn't properly written text wonderful? With every capital, comma, apostrophe, period, and question mark in its proper place.

Not to mention the good old elipsis...

Thanks for the write up Kas!

Oh, so Meerkat was Kel, not Kas. That's awkward.  

When I found out that was you, I imagined that CR was killing you.  I can’t imagine you actually writing like that ever. 

Kas, phenomenal writeup as always! That was a tribute well done and I’m appreciative of Maill and Marll’s cameos. 

For anyone wondering, I’m Whoami in the dead doc making random comments here and there. This was quite an entertaining game to spec (and probably the most actively I’ve actually spectated before). 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Mailliw73

[Mat he/him]

It would seem I have less thoughts than I figured I did  I put most of them as Swan in the first Aftermath, I guess.

Congrats to the other pass winners, and thanks to everyone who voted for Su  He appreciates it (as do I). I don't have a clue what I'll run that isn't non-Sanderson, but I'm sure I'll think of something...

Oh- @Ashbringer, I was dying as I read the elim doc to see you convinced I was Axl xD I don't know how long that theory held up but I'm glad I can stay somewhat hidden without giving myself away. The anonymity in the game was rather not there at all but it was more than a normal game, so it wasn't a complete fail.

I don't have much to say in regard to the Discussion, but on trust groups I think the way it was handled here was pretty good. Better than in the past at least. I am a player who's typically involved in a trust group if I'm not elim, though, so I'm probably not the best person to give them a complete green light  

1 minute ago, Mailliw73 said:

For anyone wondering, I’m Whoami in the dead doc making random comments here and there. This was quite an entertaining game to spec (and probably the most actively I’ve actually spectated before). 

Oh, good, that's what I thought but I was slightly worried the reference I made somewhere in the doc to your spectator name from AG7 (Postt) was misplaced.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Oh, good, that's what I thought but I was slightly worried the reference I made somewhere in the doc to your spectator name from AG7 (Postt) was misplaced.

Yeah I started kinda anon, but like many actual players, completely stopped trying after a bit. The parts talking about LG74 were way too hard to try to talk about anonymously. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Oh- @Ashbringer, I was dying as I read the elim doc to see you convinced I was Axl xD I don't know how long that theory held up but I'm glad I can stay somewhat hidden without giving myself away. The anonymity in the game was rather not there at all but it was more than a normal game, so it wasn't a complete fail.

I didn't have you as Coral, I'll admit. (Really the only identities I got were the Elim Doc shared ones (Elandera and Aman) and a certain Kellehrt. Maaaybe TUA and Orlok.) I think Axl got more Araris-esque towards the end (especially with all the talk of porches), but... someone told Aman in his open-wolfing section that they would appreciate the Elims to leave me alone (to which we were happy to oblige) because they thought I was their sister, and that narrowed things down a bit.

... I am not a sister, last I checked.

13 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

For anyone wondering, I’m Whoami in the dead doc making random comments here and there. This was quite an entertaining game to spec (and probably the most actively I’ve actually spectated before). 

We Elims definitely noticed you starting to view the thread D2-3 or so and got somewhat concerned that you came all the way back for the AG only to get stabbed N1 for no particular reason 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

We Elims definitely noticed you starting to view the thread D2-3 or so and got somewhat concerned that you came all the way back for the AG only to get stabbed N1 for no particular reason 

I saw that and Aman mentioned it. I think it’s hilarious.  that’s what happened iirc two years ago in the AG. 

[Kasimir he/him]

20 hours ago, Haelbarde said:

Woo!

Also, I am in fact myself.

Isn't properly written text wonderful? With every capital, comma, apostrophe, period, and question mark in its proper place.

Not to mention the good old elipsis...

Thanks for the write up Kas!

Oh, so Meerkat was Kel, not Kas. That's awkward.  

Finally done with having to avoid punctuation? RIP you, Bev'ika. 

Oh yeah, kel and I shared the Meerkat account. Anything vaguely chaotic or kasyana, he did. I talked to El and the IM about it but as kel last played in LG7, he didn't feel confident playing the game on his own so we shared. 

A lot of this game was me thanklessly cleaning up his mess, TBH 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Kasimir
justification

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

5 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Finally done with having to avoid punctuation? RIP you, Bev'ika. 

Oh yeah, kel and I shared the Meerkat account. Anything vaguely chaotic or kasyana, he did. I talked to El and the IM about it but as kel last played in LG7, he didn't feel confident playing the game on his own so we shared. 

A lot of this game was me thanklessly cleaning up his mess, TBH 

LG7 list of players:

1. Kassel Erikell (Kasimir)
2. Tonul Venture (Tulir)
3. Alden Izenry (Aonar Faileas)
4. Fien Urbain (Gamma Fiend)
5. Asyr Tuy (a smart guy)
6. Jain Phantomhive (Lightsworn Panda)
7. Hyrun Tormander (The Only Joe)
8. Ashette Cett (Ashiok)
9. Hadrian Penrod (Araris Valerian)
10. Kaldin Fathvell (Kal Dell)
11. Find Fain (QuiteLeftInch)
12. Quitania Elariel (QuiteContrary)
13. Wandrin Nuvidas (New One)
14. Racine Morinthe (twelthrootoftwo)
15. Sylina Serris (Theorymaker)
16. Cadri Raisaal (Shivertongue)
17. Mesist A'lees (Metacognition)
18. Mailu Willen (Mailliw73)
19. Ren Gardre (Renegade)

Plus two others who, though I forgot their names, are distinctly not named kel.

[|TJ| he/him]

Quote

 like last minute signups, too Did you get one of those for this game? I could have sworn there were 25 players very shortly before the game started, and was confused when there were 26 Pretty soon before, yeah. It’s always a shame when that happens. Especially if you’ve already assigned everyone that’s joined roles because you haven’t head any new signups in days, so you think you’re going to be fine, but then someone joins like 10 minutes before signups are over To be honest, it’s much easier with anon signups because I don’t have to worry about people thinking that last player is village and all that stuff I genuinely can’t remember who that signup was or what role we gave them, but it was probably “vanilla villager” and I have no problem with that because no one knows who it was.

Spoiler

I felt really bad when I read this, so I'm sorry GMs. I do know it's extra work when there's a last minute sign-up and I was quite conflicted about joining the game and just said screw it in the end. And yes, it was a vanilla villager, and yes I deserved that

@StrikerEZ, I'm very curious as to how you figured me out from my very first non-RP post (in the dead doc). That was very impressive.

I - don't really have much game related thoughts but I'm really glad I decided to join in the end and contribute to the death of the curse. I enjoyed playing and the KGB PM was particularly fun.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

58 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

someone told Aman in his open-wolfing section that they would appreciate the Elims to leave me alone (to which we were happy to oblige) because they thought I was their sister, and that narrowed things down a bit.

... I am not a sister, last I checked.

Well, you see, I had her pinned as Mouse, but then got less confident as time went on (because she was no longer Mouse, apparently). Add to that me being less familiar with some of the newer folks, and you get... me asking the elims not to kill one of their own.

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

Hey guys. Fifth here, undergoing a very abrupt transition into “has no time for anything at all including catching up on the *checks Discord again* 1000+ message GM DM” but I promised El a postmortem, so here it is. I wish it was longer and more well thought-out, but this is the best I can do with the time I have. It’ll probably overlap a lot with El’s but there’s not much I can do about that. Writeup was handled marvellously by Kas, not gonna try to beat that. Schoolwork sucks. Please forgive any tonal issues here, it’s probably a result of me not being able to proofread this and trying to be concise, and not because I’m actually angry at you

 

The Good

 

I was very happy to see all the RP and general fun that happened over the course of the game. Some shoutouts (which might again be an echo of the awards): Croc for scams and an amazing gambling empire, Iguana for puns, Cham for sticking to a difficult CR, Dyring and Kellehrt for amazing village characters, Scorp for some truly brain-breaking anagrams, everyone for the elite memes, Dingo for stubbornness in staying in RP, and a ton more who I am definitely forgetting. Thanks for making Tyrian your own.

 

To the village: holy storms. Y’all killed it. I have comments on balance below, including role distro, but an ironclad fact is that this distro was designed so that there was no version where a mechanical solve or a NK could bail out the village if their analysis failed. It took y’all a couple of cycles, but you all figured it out. Four Spiked in a row is incredibly impressive, even if the team kinda failed to distance And contrary to what a lot of takes might say, it wasn’t just Kel and the KGB. All of you guys kinda rocked both at the actual analysis and doing a lot of weird things to make sure that you were widely village-read come endgame. Excellent analysis all around, and you deserve this win 100%.

 

Activity was generally very good, even if my PMs did not appreciate you guys >> The few pinch-hitters we had to pull in all did a great job, especially Rhino, who initiated the Great PM Revival. 

 

Players were generally very proactive about alerting us to problems and issues before they spiralled completely out of control. As GM, I appreciate this, even if my firefighting skills aren’t quite what they were. I think the mods have a lot more to say on this with the IMing reforms, but thank you guys regardless.

 

The Bad

 

Yeah, this distro was a risk, and maybe a bad one in hindsight. We had a more sane variation which gave vil a Seeker and had the Spiked as Thug/Soother/Smoker/Coinshot/Regular, but I discarded it, as I figured the Smoker would just stay glued to the CS and that’d be no fun for the rest of the village or the Spiked. So we mixed it up by giving the Spiked maximum gambiting potential: a Lurcher for WGGs and other gambitry, the MB as a wildcard, and the two Regulars as “expendable” members that could take risks in PMs and in thread, letting the power roles lurk. I’ve said enough in spec and elim docs, I think, about the Thugs. Four was a mistake, but that’s only because of the way the game played out. If Penguin was never scanned and remained under suspicion, the Thug dynamic looks a lot different, with two possible misshrekkings on a villager.

 

So, uh, yeah. That didn’t really happen, did it. I think the Spiked got screwed from D1, when Cham came under pressure and they made the largely unconscious collective decision not to distance or bus anyone. Once Gorilla fell due to The Gambit, they were all implicated, and the next few cycles were basically knocking over dominoes. All the gambit pieces I gave them went largely unused because they didn’t have the stability to pull them off, and once Ostrich called Beagle’s bluff and the KGB formed, the Spiked were pretty much toast.

 

Another issue: really really bad luck. Spiked kills got confused N2, but even if they hadn’t and Elephant had been attacked, she’d drawn Pewter. Swan’s scan hit a Village Thug, which is about the worst possible addition to a trust group you’re trying to massacre as quickly as possible. It’d almost have been better if Cham got scanned. Open PMs and people’s willingness to share meant that Hyena’s Falcon ploy backfired spectacularly. And they just wouldn’t kill Kel, who was consistently marshalling the village against them.

 

Otherwise I don’t really regret this distro. The three Tineyes did what they were supposed to in providing some redundancy against the e!Coinshot, and the village vote manip also was fine - since you couldn’t role-clear and since village manip often backfires (such as taking Gorilla out of the tie on D1), I don’t think it was an issue as much as the Spiked’s early loss of the Mistborn and propensity to hit every Thug in the game. 

 

The Ugly

 

*sigh* Here we go with meta issues. One at a time here, and again, this is way too concise, so if you want elaboration on any of this, please tell me. I’m not intending this to be an extensive litigation, but just a brief perspective on a few things.

 

The D3 conflagration. Not too much to say other than that a brief refresher of SE’s rules on arguments is always helpful before you jump into one. There were a lot of other factors at play here, but the overriding message I would take out of the mess that it became is that playing passive-aggressively and taking debates too seriously has adverse effects on everyone, not just the people yelling at each other. It’s a game, y’all. Winning a day’s worth of shrekking arguments ain’t worth tearing apart your friendships here. 

Mayoring/trust PMs: There’s gonna be a variety of perspectives on this one, but I fall on the side that this was a legitimate concern in this game. Being part of a trust group, whether intentionally or not, is always going to create a kind of power imbalance among the village, and the people not in the group are always on the receiving end of that imbalance. That’s not to say such groups are inherently bad or can’t work, but when it’s being constantly alluded to in-thread, and used as a way of dismissing or confirming arguments based on private conversations, I think frustration with it is understandable. A decent argument could be made that one of your jobs as a villager is to look into these groups and question them when they start using this logic, but it’s equally true that it’s not great to have those arguments advanced in the first place, especially when it can make people feel shut out of the game. Overall, I think the KGB and all the village PMs did a decent job of appraising the village as to what was happening in PMs and keeping them and their analysis as an essential part of the game (which is good, because they would have sidetracked themselves into very destructive paranoia), but could have done a better job in communicating that to everyone in the first place.

 

I have a lot more I could say but I think I’ll wrap it here, both for my own sanity and yours. Thanks to El and Kel for doing everything after the game ended. Life hit me like a ton of bricks and I was not ready, so I’m grateful they stepped in >>

Actually. I lied. The game in three memes: the village, the Spiked, and the GMs. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Let's end on a happy note  

[Kasimir he/him]

21 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

LG7 list of players:

1. Kassel Erikell (Kasimir)
2. Tonul Venture (Tulir)
3. Alden Izenry (Aonar Faileas)
4. Fien Urbain (Gamma Fiend)
5. Asyr Tuy (a smart guy)
6. Jain Phantomhive (Lightsworn Panda)
7. Hyrun Tormander (The Only Joe)
8. Ashette Cett (Ashiok)
9. Hadrian Penrod (Araris Valerian)
10. Kaldin Fathvell (Kal Dell)
11. Find Fain (QuiteLeftInch)
12. Quitania Elariel (QuiteContrary)
13. Wandrin Nuvidas (New One)
14. Racine Morinthe (twelthrootoftwo)
15. Sylina Serris (Theorymaker)
16. Cadri Raisaal (Shivertongue)
17. Mesist A'lees (Metacognition)
18. Mailu Willen (Mailliw73)
19. Ren Gardre (Renegade)

Plus two others who, though I forgot their names, are distinctly not named kel.

Objection: Kal Dell played and distinctly went by Kel. Would have thought it was very obvious  

See the post linked here as evidence. @little wilson can also confirm this.

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

I think Axl got more Araris-esque towards the end (especially with all the talk of porches)

His D1 was a bit obvious but his activity patterns blurred things for me a little. But as Araris says, family >>> SE posting  

[Archer he/him]

Oh hey Szeth, I owe you the ability to juggle. *boop*  Kel is totally real, by the way. He's Kas' cousin who skateboards on frictionless ramps. 

Other thoughts!:

-Can I get an official nod that PMing the IM directly (instead of using the GM PM) is encouraged if you want to vent about how the GM is running the game? And that the expectation is that those conversations remain reasonably confidential? That was never said anywhere specifically, but I got the sense that it was encouraged if necessary. 

-If you're a player, it's good to be mindful of how your posts will affect the motivation of others to contribute. Put another way, wallposts can be intimidating. As discussed somewhere else, everyone has a different approach to analysis, and they're all valid - but sometimes your gut read feels less valid when compared to say quantitative analysis, which is easier to write more about. I feel like that feeds the cycle of inactivity. So it's good to emphasize the limitations of your analysis which provide opportunities for others to fill in the gaps.

And on the flip side of that, giving even a basic a vibe check is often helpful if you're unsure what to post. Especially if you be specific, such as by quoting one sentence someone posted that you think is villagery. 

-Regarding emotions, remember that luck plays a big role in this game. Villagers kill the right people for the wrong reasons all the time. And this is a game of trial and error. The order that people kill those in their suspect pool in is often arbitrary and hard to explain. There's only so much reasoning you can do with someone before you have to accept that they're working through what they see as a set of similar options, and the order they chose to do that in is based on murky logic. We all have to commit to testing our theories at some point, so if discussions are going nowhere, it may be time to agree to disagree and wait for rollover to provide more information. 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

@Ashbringer I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on me being me.

@|TJ| Also I could not tell you why your first non-RP post felt like you. It just did.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

34 minutes ago, Archer said:

Can I get an official nod that PMing the IM directly (instead of using the GM PM) is encouraged if you want to vent about how the GM is running the game? And that the expectation is that those conversations remain reasonably confidential? That was never said anywhere specifically, but I got the sense that it was encouraged if necessary. 

You're always free to PM the IM for concerns you have about the way the game is running. Those conversations will be confidential if you want them to be, though an IM may recommend that someone else get involved, such as the GM or the remaining moderators.

[Mauve Crocodile]

4 hours ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

  Hide contents

>:(

im kel but for axl's sake u should desist sir

how dare

i do not want to watch the world burn but maybe sometimes i want to watch your world burn just a little is that so bad my friend

i have it on good authority that we live in a society

burning it down would be kind of inconvenient

where would i buy milk and cereal

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)'

[Illwei]

Spoiler

 

Slight response to archer where I say if you feel like you can't read the whole thread or don't have opinions on everyone or just in general dont feel pressured to have to put a reads list out

Even just responding to a few small things is fine and good and an insight into how you're thinking about the game which if you want to vibe is one of the easiest ways imo for people to see you're village regardless of your reads

There was something else but I'm scatterbrained

 

Fura cried at the D1 yeet

[Stick. she/her]

 

5 hours ago, Elbereth said:

Sunburst Toucan (Habo), for being the best self-correcting role distribution error.

the SE gods were watching 

Congrats to all the pass winners!  And thanks for the game El and Fifth

[Szeth Pancakes he/they]

2 hours ago, Archer said:

Oh hey Szeth, I owe you the ability to juggle. *boop*

Oh… I also believe I am owed half of a grilled cheese, 5 queendoms, and an empire.

Plus a dull sphere, but… Kas, I think you can keep that.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Reads Master Doc

Hmmm...

Spoiler

 

[Salmon Meerkat]

4 hours ago, Mauve Crocodile said:

how dare

i do not want to watch the world burn but maybe sometimes i want to watch your world burn just a little is that so bad my friend

i have it on good authority that we live in a society

burning it down would be kind of inconvenient

where would i buy milk and cereal

┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)'

yes

yes it is 

ಠ_ಠ

u take one step in my pms with anything near an AG4 title and anything that looks like a roleclaim

& i will scream ur head off

& smack u with my salmon

DO NOT TEST ME SIR