LewsTherinTelescope

Ah, you may be right, I might be conflating the Oathgates (besides Stormseat's) being locked with the Sibling's command about Shadesmar. Interesting. Hmm. My guess would be that either shortly after the Recreance or shortly before (depending on if other spren at the time were growing hesitant about humans like the Sibling was), they cut off travel to prevent negotiation with the Radiant spren, to try and prevent bonds, perhaps? But I'm not sure, because they don't really seem opposed to willing bonds, just unwilling imprisonment. Really good question I haven't considered. I can't recall if it's explicitly stated or not, but I've been assuming it was BAM's capture because of the archive. Honor was alive for the Recreance, but the gems would've had to be before that since, y'know, Radiants lol. And yet by the time of some of the gems, the Sibling has already "withdrawn" (and not "by intent"), which makes me think the death/sleep has to do with BAM's capture and/or actions around that time (the spren seem to think the Sibling cut off their bond shortly before the Recreance, which could either be an effect of their slumber and withdraw, or could be part of the cause of it if the bond was strong), rather than Honor's death.

Sure, but that would still raise the question of why the voice is speaking to that combined rhythm, if so.

Some interesting relevant phrasing from the Stoneshaping AA entry: Sorta reminds me of the explanation Raboniel gives for why Lights respond to tones:

I like the idea it's almost a reproduction thing for the spren (not particularly comparable to the corporeal methods though ). The spren bonds a singer and changes the singer to be more like their ideal, the singer's new thought processes are more likely to align with this and so produce and attract more spren of that type, another singer bonds a spren of that type, and so on. Individually it's not gonna do a lot, just like two random humans or singers are gonna have a difficult time maintaining a population, but when on a societal level everyone is bonding these spren, it's probably gonna have an effect, and the spren types will "evolve" to produce forms that are both more useful and more integrated (thus producing a stronger effect), while the singers evolve to be a more effective host for the spren, and so forth. Of course, this was jumpstarted by Ado creating things in the form it wanted, and the timeline's not enough for normal evolutionary processes, but Roshar's apparently got sped-up evolution and spren are very conceptual things, so can probably happen a lot quicker than you'd expect ordinarily.

Depends on whether it stores the actual gas (converted, of course), or stores the concept of breath and breathing. I'd lean the latter, most likely, personally, in which case I don't think it could be done, but I could see a world where it's doable.

Imo this is really kind of in general a split on the chart—orders on the right are more about proper exercise of power, while orders on the left are more about personal expression and self-knowledge (though there's elements of both in all of them, of course). Note that in many cases I'm looking beyond the words of the oaths and at what the order blurbs say the order in practice tended to be. Right side: Windrunners: focused on protection and aiding those who need it Skybreakers (at their best, anyway): focused on keeping those in power from abusing it and becoming tyrants, and making sure nobody is above the law Dustbringers: focused on self-control and keeping destructive power carefully and precisely channeled Edgedancers: focused on making sure those in power are truly serving those they lead Left side: Lightweavers: about finding your truth and understanding yourself, and often creative and artistic Elsecallers: about finding your true potential and self-improvement, and often wise and thoughtful Willshapers: about freedom and self-expression and will, along with teaching and helping people build themselves up Stonewards: about always being able to be there, and known for participating in sporting competitions and generally trying to reach their peak (hmm, interesting name those spren have...) Middle: Truthwatchers: the blurb actually lists out two main ways they tend to be expressed: scientists and thinkers who work to unravel the secrets of the world and expand their knowledge, and more investigative reporter types who are concerned with making sure those in power are truthful, which align rather neatly with the categories I outlined. Bondsmiths: generally focused on bringing others together, but as we see with Dalinar's Third, there's a strong component of being your best self overall, as well, and the blurb mentions the oaths tend to be incredibly varied and the theme is a very loose one (I'm hesitant to put this directly as an Honor-Cultivation split, as it's close in theme but doesn't quite feel right for many of the orders, so I've tried to avoid language that frames it as that, exactly.)

Heck, the Dawnchant was used as a lingua franca on Roshar for a long time, despite the fact most of the languages aren't actually directly descended from it (the main languages in the Dawnate family are Shin, listener, and Horneater, iirc), though they were all pretty majorly influenced. While it was often war, there was clearly a lot of cultural intermixing at various points, and some of the Heralds may even have names from the Dawnsingers' language (Kaladin's name is from one of the languages Brandon uses to indicate the word has Dawnchant roots, and in-world his name comes from Kalak's) .

I've actually come around to the idea that some of the gems were before, and some were after. The Sibling speaks of it as when they "banished men from these halls", which wouldn't make sense if people only left after the Sibling was knocked out, and it's not fully clear if there's a specific chronological order to the gems or not. It may be that they started the process of abandoning the Tower earlier, when Honor was dying and the Sibling was turning against them (after all, staying in a place where the building itself is hostile to you is both dangerous and rather rude), and then BAM's capture happened while this was going on, because Urithiru is massive and evacuating it would take a while. (In fact, if the Sibling really did order the Oathgates to shut prior to their "sleep", as has been indicated in the book, leaving the Tower might've had to proceed solely a.) via the flying orders and b.) via the passage into the mountains, which would slow it down a lot.)

Huh, interesting catch. My guess would be she just hasn't dug much and so thinks Bajerden is his real name (even when Dalinar expresses doubt, it's couched in "maybe"s, so it might be that it's something of an ongoing debate Shallan wouldn't be following), but it's definitely a good question and I'm only guessing here.

Cosmere:

I feel like this is intentional. As she explains to Shallan, a large part of things is perception of power and authority, and she's excellent at projecting that. And yet we do see hints that it is indeed a projection—the scenes on the boat in WoR, the scene in OB with Ivory where she lets out a bit about her terror at the idea of losing her mind (which is presumably part of where her intensity about being "rational" comes from), the scene in RoW where we see how absurd a safety standard she holds herself to after being taken by surprise on the boat (she can only relax when she's in a locked room, in the center of the second floor, with no walls exposed to the outside, with nobody besides Wit in the room, with fabrial traps hooked up, with a boat in Shadesmar at her location, with gems sewn into her dressing gown... this lady is tighter wound than a spring), etc. She's extremely good at presentation and putting up a mask because she has to always always always feel in control of herself and her situation (and each time this fails, it sends her even deeper into this idea), but when we see glimpses of her with it down, she's basically constantly in a state of tightly-wound panic and anxiety, and is just very good at repressing and hiding it from even herself and Ivory. We just don't really see her PoV often, so we mostly see her through people whose only exposure to her is that facade of perfection she maintains. Cons of not being a main character yet like Shallan, Kaladin, or Dalinar.

We know Hoid did get got: But I'd guess that you're probably right about him keeping himself near a threshold to make it obvious something happened, even if he has no clue what.

The odd thing is that it says the pure rhythm, as if it's the sole one, not a pure rhythm like you'd expect if it meant one of three.

Nightblood's super odd apparently. (Man, citing WB is way easier than the others due to Brandon making it available online, lol.) So the difference might just be that Vivenna's Blade lacks whatever it is that made Nightblood Nightblood instead of just a nonsapient lump of magicified metal.

I guess I can see that, though I don't agree. Oh I definitely disagree, so far all the fabrials we know are very closely tied to the thing, though sometimes in interesting ways. Painspren in fabrials can raise or lower pain levels, flamespren raise or lower heat, etc. What exactly is up with logicspren, the oddest ones, isn't fully clear (though it should be noted the timing thing isn't an effect from manifestation, just from leaking), but logic & debate -> timing is a Cosmere-wide association that appears in AonDor as well. So it does seem the concepts are intrinsically tied to their effects in some way. I'm mostly going off how Khriss talks about it: Which sounds like the "self-aware" spren at hand are the personifications of the forces, along with how Brandon has described them as "living Surges" before, and how Wyndle speaks about the Ideals: The way I've viewed the spren, based off these things, is that they sort of like... represent the intersections of all these concepts. On Roshar, the Surges and Essences are personified and viewed as interconnected, and so we end up with things like "Zephyr is associated with Adhesion and Gravitation, and offers protection and leadership", and by tying a large enough chunk of Investiture to this concept we end up with honorspren, a mind that is what people imagine its mind to be (filtered through Honor and Cultivation's Intents). I wish we knew what spren envoyform was based on... lol. Going off the ones we do know (gravitationspren, which appear around heavy objects, and painspren, which appear around... well you can probably guess , and stormspren, which appear around lightning), it seems the forms are sort of adapting the singer towards the spren's concept (in an often more abstract way, as you'd expect from living ideas). I'd argue Regal forms are more analogous to the normal forms than to Radiants, the concepts are just... stranger when put in a person, and the spren probably more deeply integrated (going off how much Odium can influence with them). Not sure if that actually argues the point in any way, now that I reread it, though... Lol, fair. Let me make a different point: the access to Scadrian things is all tied to metal, but the powers are not. I'd argue Light and/or spren in general are more analogous to metals than the Surges, as powers, are. That's fair. In that case, though, I think it's more a matter of philosophy than mechanics (though those are tightly intertwined in the Cosmere and on Roshar in particular, so perhaps that's not really a position that can exist), and more vague and complicated than a direct correlation. Like, they're Transformation etc in the way that the Metallic Arts are, if you view everything through the lens of the Surges, as opposed to being a "pure" Surge. Does that make sense or am I just rambling detatchedly? who knows lmao I agree there, mostly. I don't think they can all plug into the Radiant bond, because I don't think the bond can get deep enough to let a person manipulate their power without hacks like how a gemheart seems to be weird and maybe tied into the soul, but I think you can get something like what we see with Plate spren (lesser spren being pulled into the Physical more strongly), which I see as the same sort of mechanic but more shallowly. (Though I'm not sure that these are all distinct categories as much as a spectrum of things Investiture can do that we're picking points out on.) Oh I definitely disagree. Well, sort of. Let me try and think of how to put this, the way I view it is clear in my mind but not really in words. I do not think that oaths are essential, even now. I think commitment, intention, is, along with understanding. We see with characters like Lift, Venli, and Eshonai that you don't need to say anything, or even think a specific thing in the case of when the first two hit their Ideals (at least with my understanding of when Lift hit her Ideal, which is debated). What you do need is to align your intentions with the spren's Intent, and to understand the Ideal (the Stormfather's description of Connection as a bond of knowledge feels relevant here). (And the spren moves towards, the human, too, becoming more changing and varied.) I think what we see in Rhythm of War is at least conceptually similar, and maybe even mechanically the same sort of thing: The intentions and identities (possibly capitalized, possibly not) aligning and becoming one greater whole that represents both. Which is I think why it requires both a sapient spren and sapient creature, it's something they both have to actively choose and work towards. (Interestingly, when Teft summons Phendorana at the end, it says "He felt something from Phendorana. A harmony between them.", which I feel lines up with that idea.) The second thing is that I don't think the steps are as discrete as people think. I think instead they're the tipping points, where the bond becomes strong enough to do specific things: Properly establish the bond so it won't fade ??? because we see too few knowledgeable First Ideal Radiants for too short a time to compare Manifest the spren physically Manifest other spren their main spren is Connected to physically ??? We see in RoW with Kaladin that being close to the Ideal lets him in some ways work the same as someone who has hit it. And at the end, Teft is able to go a step further and summon Phendorana physically, with effort. And of course, there's what Brandon's said about Shallan's "1.1 steps forward, 1 step backward" thing happening a lot. So I don't think it's necessarily the case there's only five codified steps that can be taken, it's just that there's certain points most people naturally struggle with, and overcoming this strengthens this bond of intention and knowledge a significant amount and this moves it past certain tipping points where it becomes much easier to do something instead of having to struggle to push it through. (Kaladin using the windspren in OB is imo another indication of this being looser than they tend to treat it as—he's' not Fourth Ideal yet, but can clearly do things that are traditionally considered something that belongs there.) So I do think the oaths are an artificial construct, but less a magical addition and more just a way to help people intuitively grasp the ideas more, and a natural effect of the common stopping points + the fact that we often find putting something into words and expressing it to make commitment feel stronger and more lasting and important. (I think the Skybreakers are the most clear case of this: I find it highly doubtful they have super oddly specific steps compared to literally every other order so far, I think it's just that this is a method they worked out that helps bring people in line with the concepts in an orderly and clear way.) I also think that the nature of the spren, being made of Honor and Cultivation/oaths and growth, lend themselves to those kinds of things even more than already would be the case. The way I've been thinking of it, the Enlightened spren represent a similar concept, but just as Honor and Cultivation filter the concept's manifestation, so too does Odium. The Rhythms are a good example of what I mean—what is Curiosity under Honor and Cultivation becomes Craving under Odium. So I think they'll be the "same" in that they're an expression of the same base idea, but different in that it's flavoured differently. (This may or may not be the case as well with Plate spren vs Blade spren. The former seem imo to on average line up with more wild and Cultivation-y concepts, from what we know of them, while the true spren are more orderly interpretations of the same base idea, adding more Honor into the mix. But this doesn't perfectly line up, so that may be coincidence rather than a solid pattern. Hard to tell, with how few of the cousin spren we know.) That actually gives me a good transition for what I was just talking about: Same basic concept of creation and curiosity, taken in a far more Odious direction, overpowering and violent. But yeah, I agree the bond can theoretically happen, for sure, and that's good evidence. I don't agree. I think the reason they haven't bonded singers is mostly due to whatever Blended is talking about when she refers to the singers betraying them: something happened during the ancient days that drove a massive wedge between the two, and since this was before the Radiant bond was discovered... Ashynite things in general just don't have many bonds, so I think the lack of spren bonding humans is just that. Ryshadium are super rare and are about the only other example of an Ashynite species bonding, and even then they only seem to bond one kind, most likely. The true spren were able to actively make the choice to go bond humans anyway, because of the Odium stuff, but for the others it just kinda didn't occur for whatever the reason is. I don't think that the Rosharan magic systems are directly Shardic, personally. On Scadrial, the magic comes from having pieces of the Shards in them due to being created by those Shards (we ignore Hemalurgy because I have no idea what causes that one lmao, but Brandon's referred to "the seeds of the three Metallic Arts" being in Scadrians for that reason before), but on Roshar, it comes from the spren being in the spiritweb. So I think the magic systems are less tied to the Shards, and more to the individual spren (with the similarities arising from the similarities in composition of those spren). (I think Sel is another example of this: we know the relationship between Radiant and spren is similar to that between Elantrian and Arelon, so that situation probably comes from people in different regions getting their magics from different "spren". While those "spren" aren't sapient, they're also huge, so even a relatively shallower bond with one still grants a decent amount of power.) As mentioned, I think it's less of Honor, but more of the spren. However, since the spren are themselves of H&C, it manifests in a way very tied to those Intents combined: Imo it's less that, and more what I mentioned above about the fact it requires them to commit and grow as well. I think it's less a conscious judgement of the oaths and more just that the spiritwebs repel each other, unless the two sides both actively try and change themselves to align and be able to mix, and they can meld more deeply as they grow more alike one another. I do think that's plausible, and wonder if it's part of why the windspren can manifest as Plate at the Fourth Ideal. Ordinarily, they can't choose to Connect deeply enough for that, but perhaps the growing bond has over time granted them enough will to make this decision. I do agree there, since I think windspren are manifestations of the same Surges (though they might manifest slightly differently due to the two types of spren not being exactly the same, but probably not super differently either going off the orders with shared Surges). I'm just not sure it would necessarily be even a noticeably usable thing at that level, both because of how tiny the spren are and because the spren can't work for a stronger bond, at least at first. But I think theoretically it'd grant Adhesion and Gravitation, yeah. Depends how you define a magic system: is it the powers, or the access method? (In other words, is Compounding more Feruchemy or Allomancy?) Renarin uses Voidbinding-associated powers, I agree, but I have to think that Voidbinding the system has a more unique access method, which would also be a valid way of categorizing the systems. (But that's rather pedantic, lol.) Tangent, but I do think that, considering spren of any of the three Shards appear to be able to plug into Radiance, form bonds, manifested fabrials, and imprisoned fabrials, spren of Honor and Cultivation should be able to plug into the mechanism for Voidbinding, whatever that is. It's a fun crack theory of mine that that's what's going on with Adolin and Maya, though considering we don't know what Voidbinding actually is it's hard to say, lol. Agreed, what I mean is more like, does it use wholly different things? Or does it use spren that, similar to windspren and honorspren or probably mistspren and Glys, are taking the same concept but in an Odious way? Given what we see with Re-Shephir being like a creationspren, I'm inclined to think it's the latter, which (if the spren are indeed the Surges, as Khriss seems to indicate) would explain it being Surge-based, but interpreted through the lens of violence and emotion instead of growth, ideals, and oaths. Seriously lmao... Sooo many pieces with them. Individual Surges, Shardblades, Shardplate, cousin spren commanding, resonances, mixed Surges...

ikr, SMH Hm, could be. We admittedly don't quite know what Soulcaster spren really are yet. Preeeettty much lol. I do get that, I just disagree that connecting it all to Surges reduces the complexity. There's dozens or hundreds of kinds of spren, and trying to narrow down everything to the Surges just feels... odd, to me, though I can understand the desire. But why/how would painspren or musicspren or fermentationspren or gloomspren or awespren or anxietyspren etc even be Surges? They're chunks of Investiture coming to life based on perception of things, it's a lot looser a basis than some of the other planets. I disagree for the reason above. The Scadrian magic is inherently metal-based, every single manifestation of it, and we've seen no reason to think otherwise (and the effects of the metal are based on Cosmere-wide principles, not solely a Scadrian magical construct). But with Roshar, we know that this isn't inherent, if people perceived things differently then the Surges and spren would be different, it's not some fundamental thing to the Cosmere or even the system. So I don't think the concepts that come alive are limited to the Surges, personally. This question's raised either way, tbf. Regal powers aren't one-to-one with orders (there's more of them), pretty much any spren can be used in a fabrial, plenty of spren can make singer forms or bond to other Rosharan lifeforms, and yet only ten types can form the orders of Knights Radiant. I think it relates mainly to the fact that these are the types of spren that, for whatever reason, Honor and Cultivation decided to uplift to sapience. We know it is hypothetically possible you could get different orders from other kinds of spren, but at the moment isn't something that can happen, which I feel is because this deeper (imo) kind of bond that allows a human or singer to directly manipulate the concept the spren represents is something that requires both an intelligent spren that can choose to make such a bond, and a spren that has enough Investiture to actually do much (a Shardblade, which is one spren, is harder to push on than Plate, which is a dozen or so spren, so seemingly they are a lot more Invested than their "cousins"). Which I also feel is the reason why bonding Syl lets Kaladin use the power, but bonding the windspren only lets him tell them to do things, despite being associated with the same Surges, so presumably the power being Surge-based isn't the distinction there. Depends on what exactly Voidbinding is or where it comes from, tbf. Nah I get it, it's an interesting discussion! Yeah, I doubt the answer is just "Raboniel forgot" or something lmao, there's probably a solid reason. Yeah it's iffy with the notes, it's more a case of me going "what could you do with powers Ishar can access (his Bondsmith powers, plus maybe some Soulcaster or Regrowth fabrials like Nale has) to achieve such an effect?" than "what did Ishar specifically do?", because I can't come up with much that does fit with the notes. Maybe, but the Memories are something Shallan has to actively intentionally take and draw upon, while the mood effect seems to be more just something that they kind of often unintentionally make people nearby feel. So to me the former feels closer to an intentional use of magic (if not well-understood), while the latter feels more like a sort of effect that just happens. Eh... I'm definitely not convinced this is actually a thing besides on a narrative level, especially after RoW where we learn one of the biggest pieces (Jasnah's Soulcasting vs Shallan's) is just Shallan not being good at it and Jasnah being really good at it, and the other Lightweavers do just fine. Yeah...

It's... weird. Because while Kelsier did Ascend as a Shadow, Tanavast's CS merged with the Stormfather's Investiture instead, as Brandon has said a spren would do. So on one end we have types of people who can just Ascend, on the other we have types of people who can just merge, and then we have types of people in a grey area who can somehow do either depending on the situation... And the differences between any of these states are ??? My guess is Nightblood theoretically could (though I'm not sure how it'd occur), but that's mostly a gut guess, instead of something I can point to any reason for.

Iirc that was mostly that a lot of things they weren't aware were doors because they close so neatly. But that might also be my brain making things up lol. Yeah... lot of questions and I have no clue, tbh, lmao. It's a really interesting thing but also most of the characters were a bit too busy to explain But if it's not of the Sibling, what spren would it be of, that would be Bondsmith-y? Could be. I've been inclined to think of it as just a specialized Soulcasting, but that sounds plausible too. Hmm, I wonder if it's just that the veins can't be infused well for mutters and waves hands vaguely some reason. Because I can't imagine the "veins" aren't connected to the "heart". Hm, yeah, that's really weird. Oh I definitely strongly disagree. Radiants are Surge-based because the spren they bond are the Surges, I don't see why spren that represent different concepts would be limited to that system. We know from WoBs that if there were spren on Earth, the powers would be different (for example, spren that grant electromagnetism), because they're based on perception and not inherent, and so I don't things that are unrelated concepts would have to tie into those ten at all. Agreed, we've not got much of a clue to be able to say. My current theory is that it involves tying a spren to a body (just like stapling a Cognitive Shadow to one) and then hitting it with a massive burst of healing to match its new Cognitive and Spiritual ideals, but that's entirely a guess. Yep, which is interesting, since "Bondsmith" and "Lightweaver" existed prior and are broader Cosmere terms (at least the latter is broader). I wonder which of the order names are preexisting and which are new. Agreed. Wonder if the Lightweaver aura is to either Soulcasting or the Memories as "strength of squires" is to a Reverse Lashing. Kind of a weird passive more solely Cognitive and Spiritual version. Lmao true

I don't mean that those planets have more spren, to be clear, I was referring to the effects on the planet in general. Roshar has some more spren, but Sel has a giant plasma storm infusing the Cognitive Realm, and Threnody has... a mess.

She is "not necessarily the most consistent of entities in the cosmere when it comes to making decisions like this" and "can be somewhat...erratic", yeah. On the other hand, it got made by a few Returned, to end a war between Returned, motivated by competition with another Returned, and was brought to Roshar by a Returned (potentially after confronting Yesteel... a Returned), as well as that Endowment was more involved in NB's creation than usual, though not to the extent some think. And we know that Vasher has not yet fulfilled his purpose nor really had a chance to, but that we will find it out eventually and that the Everstorm signals something bad for him. Combine that with her confidence that "if Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with", and I think it seems an awful lot like she wanted NB there. I think the trick is, the Returned have free will, and she doesn't try to control them after they come back. Brandon's said that "It's a nature of Endowment that the gift is given without strings attached, so to speak" when talking about why Breath isn't tied to a planet, and the way he puts it ("it's a nature of Endowment") makes me think it's pretty inherent to the power. She can give the Returned a choice to try and Return to accomplish something and give them a second chance, but they aren't bound to do as she wishes or even as they wished when accepting, if they don't want to. So her plans can't be as simple as "get this guy to do this", they have to be more of the form "find someone who wants to do x and someone who will respond to x in one of y different ways and lead to any of z outcomes that I'd be pleased with". For example, Blushweaver wanted to attack Idris, while Lightsong wanted to stop the war, both of which could result in the Court of Gods surviving (and so a mechanism for Returned with longer-term goals to be able to survive), but it's up to them and their desires to try and convince the other to do what's necessary and pick which path will actually happen, not something Endowment can order them to do. Hence, the Returned don't all have a consistent purpose, they just seem likely to push things any of multiple different ways she'll be happy about. And I think this is why she can simultaneously talk about the pact not to interfere while also seeming rather likely (in my opinion) to be behind Nightblood ending up on Roshar: she is not interfering nor making people interfere. Independent agents are interfering, of their own free will and uncoerced, she just gave them a free gift that they decided they wanted to use that way. (Whether that actually counts as a valid excuse or not is up to debate, but if in her mind it works, I think that's enough.) Oh hm that's another good point I forgot about as well. Yeah, it's not gonna work too well for killing another Vessel right away. Iirc it's been mentioned there are more spren nowadays, but still nothing on the level of, say, Threnody or Sel, so it does seem like Splintering can be a lot calmer, yeah.

Skimming back, I think they just move open. Interestingly, they also work fine when using Stormlight even when the suppressor is on, which makes sense if it's part of the Sibling... but the forcefield fabrial does the same and is definitely something added after the fact. Oh jeez. Agreed, yeah. Honestly I just don't think it needs to all be Surges in the first place, any more than a painrial or a conjoiner is functioning via Surge manipulation. I think it can just be looser than that, but most spren don't have enough power/control over that power to use it more flexibly than messing with the concepts they embody. That's fair. Man I forgot all about that quote. Definitely makes the Honorblades sound super scary. Don't forget Division, aka the UnLashing! They also have that weird mood-boosting effect Shallan and Tien both have, though I suppose that might not be a resonance and just be passive Transformation, or something. Honestly could be, though now that you mention that I realize the Stormfather is very air-related too, so the wind reason doesn't work well for why Dalinar can't do it

Mercy was also involved in the fight, so it's quite likely imo that the two were there together (especially as the others seem to actually buy his excuse). We don't really know how Sel and Threnody went down, exactly, but Mercy made it out alive, Ambition did make it out of the system before being Splintered, and D&D seem to have been putting themselves into the Cognitive Realm or something, and Odium ended up wounded from all of this in some way. Whether or not they'd be able to kill him is anyone's guess, but if Honor's there attempting to counter his actions and Cultivation's there attacking, it would probably have a higher shot of survival than what they did. But what they did is much more certain to keep him imprisoned there even after they die (as we see with Honor), if their highest priority is keeping him from attacking others rather than making it out in one piece themselves. I'd be shocked if a Shard so focused around interpersonal connection wasn't willing to at least take the advice of his partner into account when deciding upon a course so detrimental to both themselves and the entire planet they're on. Unlike Rayse, she's well aware Nightblood is there. She can attack the power or grab it and move it elsewhere until Szeth walks off with the sword and T is left without it. Already the case, with the Everstorm, Voidspren, Fused, Unmade, etc. Gonna need to work out a way to handle that in either case. And ultimately sentient but non-sapient spren don't seem to be too much of an issue, considering that non-sapient normal spren kind of just are there, and sapient ones seem to require direct intention to create (which would allow adding in other Investitures to the process to control and direct things more, along with adding other non-Shardic focuses in the way the Radiant spren are based on Surges). It's not exactly like it can fight back, and most of the other Shards have shown no inclination to attack anyone anyway (so far Odium seems to be the only one who's gone out and attacked others, even Ruin was content to settle down and make a planet until Preservation betrayed him).

Considering she was at the very tip-top of his kill list, probably not much of an ally. Imprisoning him to the system feels like a pretty specific kind of sacrifice move. Could've just let Honor try and imprison him and then struck herself while he was doing that, or attacked together to try and drive him off, but instead they decided "nope, we're trapping him in, only one side is making it out alive", and potentially in a way that harmed them quite a lot depending on how close the Stormfather's analogy to the Oathpact is. This route doesn't feel like something that would be decided on unless both parties were onboard. If all she wants is to just turn him out and doesn't really care, then she doesn't need that. Just make him swear to leave her alone and let him go, if necessary point out to him that he's got no idea what he's doing with the power and she can help if he agrees or attack otherwise. Maybe even stop him from grabbing the power at all without an agreement in place. Her plan may be simple or complicated, but either way it's clearly not just "doesn't matter as long as he's gone".