Steel Inquisitive

So..... Am I right about Identity not being a big factor in Forgery? From what I recall of ES Identity didn't really come up. I know it's important in Feruchemy but.... I'm probably just being thick-headed now

I would think so... But the magic might be so region locked by this point it might take a lot of effort for a shard to change it.... Or maybe not. Maybe just moving the power into spiritual realm would be enough.

I do it all the time.....

I think they could do exactly that. I think they could just make it so that the aons draw from SR instead of CR. What that would do to the regional-ness of selish magics.... Idk. ( @Quantus Mistborn spoilers! And some minor SA as well.)

@Ookla-Shephir I know that..... But think it would help not hinder this process..... After all the identity of the spren would not be of a cool sword.... The stamp would help restore it's original identity.... I don't know I'm not really married to the idea... I just like debating! On that note: thanks @Jace21 for indulging me! I think you win this one. (btw what's up with the "ookla"? I keep seeing it in peoples user-names.)

That's a different situation. Jace and I were debating whether you can stop or allow a spiritual change through willpower. Pushing/Pulling is purely a physical change. @Jace21 To sum up: We mostly agree on point one with contention on whether a subconscious mind would be enough. Point two we are in complete agreement. Point three has become too philosophical for me to think about right now Maybe I'll have more brain power later today (and not be running late for work! Yikes!).

1. I think Maya proves my point..... So I don't know where we go from here My point being that deadblades do still have a mind it's just turned off. I like to think of them like a remote without a battery. Are they broken? Sort of. If you insert a battery however, boom still works. The deadblades, in my mind, are just operating on a subconscious level. 2. I can't imagine Forgery using entire Dor either.... But there has to be a way to increase power of a stamp. Maybe make them bigger? That seemed to work for Elantris. 3. I think we are confusing terms here. Identity doesn't play into this too much (in my opinion of course). Because you are in invested being you can give permission for investiture to be used on you. Now, you aren't the most invested thing in the world so others can more easily override your wishes. Spren are a lot more invested so it would take more investiture to override what they want. But if they wanted the change than there wouldn't be as much interference.

Wow! You really want to see this! Brandon better watch his back

Maya disproves the first point. She might be "waking up" but even before that she had a subconscious. I believe they all do. You have convinced me on point two. However, Forgery would have the power of the Dor behind it so... As I have said: the plate isn't alive enough to give permission. Just because it's keyed to you wouldn't matter. The investiture would resist because that's what it does. A radiant spren however is much more alive. I believe if Kaladin wanted he could lash syl (also assuming she wanted it) but since Syl can fly and doesn't obey the laws of nature all ready.... What's the point?

Idk. Stormfather loved Syl a lot so he might be willing to share a radiant. Actually SF and Kal already have some history.... If Dalinar dies i vote SF bonds Kaladin!

I'm not sure that's really a good comparison. Shardplate and a Shardblade are very different. Forgery and Lashings are very different. I see what your saying, but don't really agree. Yes investiture resists investiture, but if that investiture is alive and wants to change, than I think there would be less resistance. Shardplate isn't alive in the same way as shardblades. (Even if they do turn out to be the minor spren they wouldn't be as alive.)

That all assumes that the spren doesn't want to be resurrected. I know investiture resists investiture, but In this case its got a mind(i have to assume they still have a subconscious.... Otherwise Maya would make no sense.) I'm willing to bet that if the investiture wants to change it will make a big difference.

RAFO..... That's all I have to say

Authentic looking soulcasters! Great if you want to use your powers without others knowing! Jashnah: " hmmmmm"

Compassion is being sympathetic towards someone's sufferings. (Summarised from a quick Google search....) So while you can be devoted to someone you don't have to be compassionate towards them at the same time. (See Zane and Vin) You can also be compassionate towards someone and not be devoted. (see Kaladin and parsh.) There is a little overlap, but they're still very different.

I think they are different enough to work. Devotion to something. Compassion for someone. Devotion to a cause. Compassion for a people. They are very different. Main problem in my mind is that none of the Shards should be evil or good by definition. It's hard to imagine a Shard of Compassion with a dark side.....

@Ambitions Avatarhow about Compassion? It has a kindness vibe about it while being distinct enough from Devotion to warrant its own shard.

Agreed! I don't think weakness will be a Shard, but do believe it could be a Shard.

I believe Devotion was originally Love and Brandon switched the name to a "synonym". I could see kindness being a Shard or maybe Selflessness. (Wow! That just rolls off the tongue)

I agree.... @Jace21I thing you and I are in agreement for the most part. I understand your first point now I believe that with the shattering the shards became... More free? I don't think that's right.... Ruin when part of the whole wouldn't have been wanting to kill the world. Ruin would have been fine slowly breaking things down, but once it was separate it wanted only to destroy... So actually, yeah! The shattering freed the shards.

That makes sense! Do Kandra spikes have to be allomantic or feruchemical? Or can they be from anyone?

@BitBitio this is more focused! Seventh of twilight. (I have no idea when I was born....)

...... I think I win As too "debatable" Ado's view doesn't seem to matter to me.... He was..... Not human.... Whether he was a being or a force is still debated. Either way with him having made cosmere he kinda invented these concepts to start with.... It gets complicated! I'm REALLY enjoying this conversation btw

..... Is too busy.... Autonomy however......

@Ciridae kinda looks like a cow.... Maybe allusion to a shepherd? Shard of guidance? Idk....