alder24

SA spoilers:

No, it's not, Dawnshard spoilers: It would be great if we could not quote and go into discussions about events happening in books that were not read by Amira yet. The best way to quickly verify information is by looking at https://coppermind.net/wiki/ first.

Well,there is Shadesmar, other than that there isn't any shade mentioned in RoW. I highly doubt that from all people it's Lirin who is Cosmere aware and knows what Shades are. There are likely some stories or legends of people turned into Cognitive Shadows, like Heralds and Fused, and maybe even stories of the land of the dead, where people turns into vengeful shades and this is likely the source of "ghost stories" on Roshar. But I admit this is interesting use of words. There are however more clearer references to Threnody, RoW ch 64:

For now Sazed is against giving people knowledge without any effort, he did this once and is regretting it as this stopped invention. No, that was one of the Kandra who said that before Wax experiment. Harmonium is split in contact with Trellium. And this whole thing is one of the arguments suggesting that Harmony is already Discord. You mean if Harmony was split into Preservation and Ruin, would Harmonium also split into Preservation/Ruin? Not really, Harmonium would remain as Harmonium even if there is no Harmony anymore, just like Atium remained Atium after Sazed Ascension even when there was no Ati as Ruin anymore. When a Shard is Splintered/merged its god metal that already existed is unaffected. Does it mean if Harmony was to split would Harmonium be easier to split into Atium and Lerasium? Maybe. I don't think you would need any Dawnshard, just a very angry Shard that would want to Splinter Harmony into pieces, this could result into separation of Preservation and Ruin after their Vessel would be killed. For Discord there are some clues, TFR ch 8 epigraph:

That's not it. It is possible for a person who broke the bond to re-swear it and resurrect their Deadeye - if a Radiant during Recreance were to reswear their oath, their spren would be back - even when BAM was imprisoned. Maya and Adolin are forming a bond, not Nahel Bond which was said in RoW by Blended, but some different bond. Maya is taking strength from Adolin by this bond. And even though Maya is now able to speak (she was able to do that in OB as well, she spoke to his mind revealing her name), she is still a Deadeye, BAM is still imprisoned. Adolin is able to sense her emotions and her thoughts through their new forming bond, which is something new that is happening with Deadeyes. Shallan and Testament's case confirms this, if BAM was free, Shallan breaking her Oath would likely not result in turning Testament into Deadeye, and yet it happened. BAM is still imprisoned, which is said by Ulim, Kalak, Mraize and the Sibling too. This also means that unlike Adolin and Maya, Shallan can just re-swear her Ideals and Truths and fully bring the Testament back to life. She already started doing that (WoK - I'm terrified said during her first successful Soulcast).

I don't think it's just about a sense of beauty (no @Koloss17 that's not a storable sense ), many different animals have it. Birds attracts partners by colorful feathers or mating dances, color is also important in many fishes when mating. Penguins are giving pebbles to females during mating season and are building nests out of them. Taste, color and smell are also used by plants to attract insects and animals to spread their seeds. Of course those examples do not compare to human's sense of beauty, nor do animals create art for the same of art so it could be how emotional Allomancy works.

What is 1E? Which era is the first Era? Before Rashek Ascension there was a classical Scadrial, before that Scadrial existed for at most 8000 years, every 1000 years new Ascension happened, which era should be the first one? Scadrial was created, should this be the first era? No, there is already a working calendar. Rashek was born in CS (Classical Scadrial), Elend was born in 1000 FE (Final Empire), Wax was born in 299 PC (Post Catacendre). Just like in our calendar we have AD (Anno Domini) or BC (Before Christ). FE calendar is the same as CS calendar which is the same as PC calendar - seasons just don't match each other due to different orbits, but years are the same (FE year isn't defined by Scadrial's orbit around the sun, while both CS and PC are). And it would be really hard for someone from Silverlight to rediscover Scadrial's history, as all written records of Classical Scadrial and possibly earlier were destroyed by Rashek. I doubt Silverlight would have records of it dating at least 2000 years into the past. Sazed on the other hand, as a holder of both Preservation and Ruin has access to memories of both of those Shards since the moment of the Shattering, he already knows what Scadrial's history was in the past. Harmonium, Lerasium and Atium are god metals, not Shards, just a small correction. And Harmony splitting back into Ruin and Preservation is very unlikely. Sazed is controlling them both (well or bad it doesn't matter, he holds them together, they're intermingled). And even if this would happen, it doesn't have to be catastrophic - Leras death, Kelsier and Vin both giving up the Shard were not catastrophic events. People on Scadrial might not even see that Harmony split into Ruin and Preservation and someone else Ascended. But as I said, it's very unlikely to happen. What is likely is Harmony changing into Discord under Sazed as its Vessel. Some WoBs:

Yes they can. Medallions change a lot, they're a bit different from Feruchemy. WoBs on this:

It's hard to master electrum. It gives no mental or reaction enhancements like Atium does, just shadows and nothing else. I think you overestimated it a little, but it still can be useful.

The quote is from the in-world text Words of Radiance, written 200 years after the Recreance. Why the feeling of betrayal? Maybe because nobody understood the reason why knights abandoned them right after the brutal Desolation? Maybe because of the fear of future Desolations without Radiants at all? Who knows. Good point however, still too vague. I also agree we don't have a full picture yet. Except even Nale doesn't kill unjustly or against the law. That's not what Nale is telling us, that's what Skybreakers are about - law. He is mad, yet still bound by Oaths as Radiant and becoming the senate law doesn't place him above the law. As Kaladin proved, slaves have a very hard time escaping and it just doesn't happen that often. Plus only a very small portion of Alethkar borders that region. Plus plus - people don't escape to places where nobody lives, no food grows, no resources to be found. Just no. Slaves would have a better chances trying to escape to Reshi Isle than Wastlands. Near? How near are we talking about, because the North Pole is in the middle of the ocean. I'm nitpicking. The scouring of Aimia happened after the Recreance (maybe even 400 years before the True Desolation), much closer to current events than destruction of Stormseat. There are also supernatural storms and spires surrounding Aimia, only making it more intriguing to people - which was still a relatively ignored region up until recent times. Plus the Aimia was inhabited by Aimians, a race of people who still wander around Roshar, visible and distinguishably different. This only adds to the mystery. To add even more, Aimia was known to hold valuables and fabrials before the scouring, which is another reason to travel there. On wastelands there is nothing anymore, no ruins, no supernatural things, no anything. Just nothing interesting and the Shattered Plains are hidden in mountain ranges. There wasn't even any nation in that region anymore, no country, no people at all. And again, as I said 2 times already, Listeners were not leaving their camps. Not at all. Eshonai was the werid one. They spend most time after abandoning their forms in a Dullform (as this and Mateform were the only forms known to them up until recent times) and Dullform was very similar to Slaveform. If some human happened to meet them in the middle of nowhere (unlikely, Listeners didn't leave their camps) he would assume those are regular Parshmen, slaves and nothing more. The Shattered Plains are weeks away from Alethkar, on uncharted parts of the map, where mountains should be. Even the forest in which Gavilar and Dalinar were hunting when they met Eshinai wasn't on any map. That isn't really a doorstep, is it? Parshmen were talking sometimes. There is no supernatural reason why the Shattered Plains were forgotten (except for its shattering). There is just nothing there (as far as people knew about it). Nothing of interest is there. Nothing lives there. Nothing. That’s the reason. Even before the Last Legion escaped there, it was already an empty, desolate place, devoid of people. Yes, because Timbre stated it directly. Lightspren decided to give Singers another chance after the Recreance. Ashspren on the other hand want to get revenge on humans for the Recreance.

It isn't clear. The False Desolation likely lasted for years, ending with Recreance. It might be that after Radiants were expelled from Urithiru, years had passed before the strike team manage to capture BAM - that's however very unlikely, as one of the gems mentioned Parsh pushing towards the Feverstone keep, this likely mean less than a year (or even month) had passed between abandonment of Urithiru and BAM capture.

What is external pain? (rhetorical question, I know what you meant) Pain receptors in your skin are located deep within it, they're internal. I think unless you learn to store only your pain/touch from your hand, you won't be able to differentiate between "external" and internal pain. And yes, headaches are from pain receptors (not in the brain neurons, rather inside of blood vessels), and those receptors are the same as in your skin. Google:

Oh Storms, that's soooo cooool. Both color versions fit so well. I love it!

There is, more than one link. Honor was dying, the Sibling banished them from the Tower, and they just performed a genocide on Singers - just like Honor told them they will do. You don't know this. You don't know if Singers weren't just turned en masse into a Slaveform in the middle of an ongoing fight. It was also noted by the Sibling that imprisonment of BAM was felt not just by spren but by all who belong to Roshar, both True Spren and Radiants would very likely be able to feel this and realize what a terrible mistake they had just made. What happened at the Feverstone keep WAS Recreance! It was even confirmed by Honor during Dalinar's vision. As said in the WoB, Recreance was an event spanning across multiple days, when the decision was made by individual Radiants and spren, not whole Orders (during the False Desolation there were at least 2000 Windrunners, but at the Feverstone keep only 100). The last sentence of yours is true. But I can just argue that all Radiants felt the effect of BAM imprisonment, saw what they did to Singers and that was the last straw which made them abandon their Oaths - that was the factor Brandon said in a WoB. He also said in this very WoB the enslavement of Singers didn't happen "in the next year" after Recreance - which clearly means that enslavement of Parsh happened decades after Recreance. Timeline is secure. No, quote the entire sentence Stormfather said. He clearly stated Radiants of the past knew they were from Ashyn and Honor was always there to reassure them, But before Recreance this changed - he also clearly said that when "this generation of Radiants" learned the truth, they were hearing only Honor raving about incoming the destruction of Roshar. This was one of many reasons why Recreance happened. Radiants before Recreance knew they were from Ashyn. Yes, that's the point. If this was a slave rebellion, like you suggest, they would mention it. Ancient Skybreakers weren't "evil" nor on the side of Odium, nor even close to Odium. They didn't have to participate in Recreance because they were one of the safest Order to keep them from destroying Roshar - laws preventing murder. They have to obey them. That's why they stay and prevent Radiants from ever coming again. Radiants aren't of Honor alone. They're both of Honor and Cultivations. Lightweavers have nothing moral to them, Dustbringers are about self-mastery, Elsecallers act more because of logic, not morality. Morality isn't the defining factor of Radiants, nor Honor. Honor is about keeping oaths, natural laws, not morality. Honor isn't a good guy, All True Spren living during Recreance knew about human origins, most were even alive when humans came from Ashyn. Radiants knew they were of Odium, knew they came to Roshar and caused the first Desolation. they weren't missguided (only in their trying to imprison BAM they could be ignorant of unforeseeable results). Odium and Stormfather's words were the same, Radiants were good people, wanting to save Roshar. Stormfather, while not fully aware, was still perfectly knowledgeable about those events, and knew Roshar isn't the original world of humanity (he was rather surprised Dalinar thought it was). We don't know what happened on Ashyn, only that Surgebinding and Dawnshards destroyed it, but we know Honor's last words - all about Radiants destroying Roshar with Surges and Dawnsahrds like what had happened on Ashyn. That was what Radiants fear during Recreance, because this time Honor didn't reassure them, but said they will destroy Roshar with their Surges. They didn't have to know what exactly had happened on Ashyn, when their god was telling them they will do the same thing on Roshar. That was one of the main reasons for Recreance. Please keep spoilers from SA 5 in a spoiler box. Regarding the last sentence of yours, Radiants fear they will destroy Roshar, they've just committed a genocide on the entire race of native Rosharan population - they'd just realized that they are on they're way to destroy Roshar, just like Honor had told them. Again, read the WoB, which literally said that it was a decision in the heat of the moment between spren and their knights, not a pre-planned action. Yes they would. Stormfather remembers many of his past Knights. Syl is different because she wasn't ready for a bond and suffered heavily when her Knight died. That's why she doesn't remember it well. Another reason why she doesn't remember it well is because she is in PR, not CR, she needs a bond to anchor herself to PR, to remain sapient, to remember. Spren returning to CR without searching for a bond would just remember everything. Because they didn't know it even existed. They were focused on internal struggle in dividing Alethkar with other Highprices, and when united, they were fighting in areas where people were actually living, Herdaz, Jah Keved or with Sunmaker in Azir. Eastern lands were not very farmable, those were barren wastelands, with low amounts of crops, high wind speeds. You want your investments in a place where people live, people who would work there and build there - both in the eastern and southern direction from Alethkar there was nothing there. Plus they thought there were mountains there. And Listeners weren't traveling as far away from their camps as Eshonai was. She was the first one who traveled so far away to meet humans. Without her Gavilar wouldn't have discovered the Shattered Plains. And yes, now you can travel to the Shattered Plains in wagons, because there is interest there which wasn't there before. Now they know this place exists. And you named it yourself - wastelands. There was nothing there for people to look for. Not to mention, in ancient times this place would be abandoned because of the shattering of the Stormseat. Whatever had happened there would make people never to come back there again. How did Honor protect KR? There is also nothing indicating Cultivation has any secret society on Roshar (and we almost know them all). Also why would she did that? No, the Sibling lost her Rhythms because of BAM imprisonment, which happened after Radiants abandoned the Tower. The gem archives were made because Radiants were leaving, but also mentioned they're going to imprison BAM during the False Desolation that was happening. The expulsion from Urithiru happened shortly before the imprisonment of BAM. RoW ch 49:

@Jn819 please avoid posting multiple times in a row. You can use the "+" button at the bottom of posts to quote multiple posts in your single response. Check this for more information: I don't agree. I don't think he feels inferior to other Radiants. He isn't that kind of person. He is caring and happy for the well being of others, he helps them and shares his happiness with people around him. He isn't jealous. He is lost however, and doesn't know what he can do when Radiants with god-like powers can do it better. He wants to be useful but doesn't know how anymore. However this changed with his diplomatic expedition to Lasting Integrity, he got a new task, something that only he can do as a Highprince. And after Maya's revelation I think he found a purpose, something that no Radiant can do - helping Deadeye. He also doesn't want to be a Radiant, especially if that means abandoning Maya. However there is a conflict between Dalinar and Adolin, conflict about Evi, Adolin can't forgive Dalinar for killing his mother. That's something Taravangian could try to exploit.

Did you really have to remind me of this? As a person with glasses, I can confirm, not seeing isn't fun. For me, storing sight would be a pain in the eyes, because I would be just blind. And because I have worse sight than normally, I wouldn't be able to store as much as others, and would have to store for longer, tap more attribute, just to have normal sight. Not a good thing, I wouldn't be able to use it as a replacement for my glasses. Medallions could make me store it when sleeping, that's a better option than being F-tin ferring for me. There are some for whom more pain would be desirable. Yikes! That's the best way to injure yourself even more. Don't do that. Rust and Ruin, don't do that as well! Pain is the way your body communicates with you that something is wrong, storing pain when handling a fire is the best way to get third-degree burns - don't do that. Tap pain instead to instinctively back off your hand before you get burns. I do agree that F-tin is one of the best Ferring to be in everyday, Earthly life. But today you can zoom in with your camera, wear glasses, have hearing devices in your ears, or record sounds with your phone - there are ways to mitigate advantages of F-tin with modern day technology (it doesn't make F-tin any less cool!). Also depending on what you're doing and what you like, there are other choices better than tin - but tin is still one of the most universal Ferring abilities you can have. That’s not enough for me to join your cult!

I have several problems with this. Firstly, there is WoB saying that enslavement of the parshmen happened only decades after the Recreance. Next, it was said in OB ch 113 that Radiants knew humans came from Ashyn, that they were the first Voidbringers and cause the first Desolation, but there was Honor always reassuring them that their cause it right and honorable - until the last generation of Radiants, when Honor was raving about Dawnshards and how humans would destroy Roshar with their Surges. Radiants knew they were of Odium. Plus nothing in the gem library of Urithiru suggests that Singers were enslaved before the False Desolation. I think the way they speak about Singers suggests they were free at that time. Do we? Honor is about oaths, not good deeds. A slave owner swearing to release his slaves when they pay off their debt is "Honorable". That's not true, both Odium (OB ch 57) and Stormfather said in OB that Radiants were good and honest people and weren't corrupted nor lost their ways. That's also not true. First as proven by Odium, Stormfather and Maya, they did this to protect humanity and Roshar from the same destruction that Ashyn faced. Secondly, Recreance spanned over a few days and it wasn't organized, it was done on an individual basis, decision made between spren and their Radiant in the heat of the moment, not a pre-planned action. There is nothing to suggest that Radiants told spren in CR about their actions, nobody knew what was happening, even Radiants and their spren were unaware of Deadeye (as Maya's words proved, she didn't know for certain she would turn into a Deadeye). If they didn't know spren would turn into Deadeye, they would just think breaking oaths would be enough, spren would survive this and they would never bond anybody else, or leaving spren in the Shardblade form would make sure that people would still have weapons to fight against Fused, but not surges as spren would prevent this from happening. I don't agree with your reasoning here as well. There was pre existing disagreement between the Sibling and Radiants (could be because Radiants wanted to imprison BAM and the Sibling was against this idea), which ended with expulsion of Radiants from Urithiru and closing Oathgates. The messages in the archives of Urithiru also suggest there was no cover up story, as they openly were talking about Parsh bonding with BAM, Voidbringers etc. Both humans and spren knew nothing about Recreance, they only saw its effects - Radiants abandoning their Oaths, which for many humans meant they turned against them, and spren turning into Deadeye, which for spren in CR meant Radians betrayed their spren killing them. There is no reason for any cover up, as both humans and spren could know only what they saw. Yes, because it's in the middle of inaccessible mountain range, far away from any civilization, and the only way to it are magic teleportation devices (except for a long and difficult track alongside mountain valleys with no places to stop and shelter from Highstorms), which no longer function, and can be opened only by a living Shardblade, which can't be done anywhere. How could they not forget it when nobody could access it anymore? The maps that humans had were all inaccurate (just look at medieval maps of Europe), each country placed Urithiru closest to their own borders, not where it should be (it was said either in WoK or WoR). There is nobody who can fly, nobody who can walk through a solid mountain, only Radiants knew where Urithiru precisely was, and all of them were dead now. The Last Legion ran to Narak prior to the Last Desolation. They were a relatively small community, on desolate wastelands. I wouldn’t be surprised if Radiants knew about them, but left them alone, and once slavery of Singers happened after Recreance, they were already so isolated that humans just didn't go there anymore (no maps). And Listeners didn't travel at all. Plus you don't travel far away from civilization when every few days there is a massive hurricane storm that wants to kill you and you have no way to find any shelter in the middle of a forest. How? She rarely intervenes with the Nightwatcher. Would she go around Roshar erasing people's memories without their consent?

I think he is mostly truthful, mainly because in WoR he told Jasnah that he spent a month or so in a stomach of a giant fish, and later (or earlier) Lift said she saw him being swallowed by a giant fish - he already proven to us that some ridiculous things which he says are true. In this case he clearly took some artistic liberties like calling all crewmen Doug, calling laptops a magical table etc, but for us readers it's almost clear why. He called everyone Doug, so the listeners won't get distracted by them, as they're not important to the story. Laptops aren't important to the story as well and he doesn't want to explain to his audience what they are. That being said, he may get things wrong, intentionally or unintentionally. I think Hoid's portrayal of Ulim is accurate as during Era 2 we already saw similar behavior of other Kandra. Pancake land is likely a joke, I don't want to even imagine this place existing in Comsere (but if they do exist, it's Whimsy).

Possibly, they would be taller, with pale skin, sharp fangs, sparkling and that's mostly it for a stereotypical vampire (?) - of course if that society had already pre existing mythology about vampires, before first Returned showed up there, if not then Returned would define the appearance of vampires and Returned would look mostly the same as in Hallandren. I don't think people's perception would define if Returned returned for a reason, because their return is a conscious decision of Endowment, likely independent from people's perception. However as WoB says, there isn't necessarily some specific task for them to perform after their return, Endowment is looking for something when choosing whom to return, but she is not good at understanding humans as she isn't a human. I do wonder what those less specific tasks could be, can they just Return to be scientists, never able to fulfill this purpose like Lightsong was?

I agree. It's not perfect, however mechanics of this bomb will still be the same, no matter scale (unlike fission/fusion bombs). That's why I said there are some reasons to believe that Bilming might be in danger if the bomb went off in between Bilming and Elendel. And for now we have no other sources of information other than Sazed and the Set (who was helped by Autonomy). They did figure out rockets. They made them, tested them at sea, just not at the scale they needed. And as far as I know, Americans developed rockets after nukes were already tested. Those are two different fields of physics.

Yes, that's why bolded Sazed "I don't know" part and provided Set members quotes, as they at least have done several tests before, done some calculations and estimations of how much power this bomb might have. There are at least some reasons to believe that their worries might be justified. With this I agree. It's Cosmere fission/fusion reaction. I think that was made pretty clear in the book.

This looks suspicious. I think we need to appoint a special commission to investigate the "randomness" of this roll, mr “F-tin overlord”. Sorry, I'm already in F-zinc cult. Oh I'm just getting started! You made me angry with that statement! You call the wolf out of the woods! FIrst of, you won't be a steelsight savant, you'll be just a regular F-tin savant and I think with A-steel it's possible, as steelsight is fueled by Allomancy and Preservation, so you're drawing from an external source of power, making Feruchemical savantism easier (I personally don't call that reverse compounding). You will become a full F-tin savant, as your using your Tin feruchemy powers and it doesn't matter that much what your metalminds stores (that's my opinion). Buuuut, Allomantic steelsight on the level of Inquisitors can be learn by normal coinshoters (WoB) and I think your Twinborn has the best chances to rediscover this ability as they would be purposefully wanting to gain that level of steelsight and at some point they will realize that they don't need F-tin to achieve that. Then F-tin storing steelsight would work like F-tin storing regular sight, giving more information about objects, perfect color recognition, distant focus etc etc. Still useful. And who knows, maybe even go beyond matter and detect electromagnetic forces with F-tin steelsight, like this WoB suggests? I can still give you a flak if you like that. I think getting sharper, more detailed, more minute steelsight could be a great resonance. You'll be able to intuitively just see the object via your steel lines the way you want, even to very little parts of it. I can see it even as a start of manipulation of fundamental forces, just some very basic uses on a small scale, but give this Twinborn pur Dor, and he might not only see electromagnetic bonds, but push on them with A-steel (Cosmere Magneto?). Oh that's a goood one. And you made me angry again! You missed a pretty important detail of F-tin mr "F-tin overlord" - you can tap so much F-tin that you'll gain a Spook-savant level of senses, able to feel incoming strikes by just the air movement, by just your hearing and react to it with insane, almost Atium-like reactions. That's pretty awesome. Great combination for a Coinshot. 9.5 well deserved.

They are bound in the same way, both Rayse and Taravangian. It's all about interpretation, how they interpret the rules - Taravangian is much more cunning and plotting, looking for loopholes, that's why he can interpret rules differently than Rayse, and be "bound" by them differently. Perception matters, RoW ch 116:

As I clearly stated, this is my opinion - you need a sensory organ to store sense and tap senses in your tinmind. Without a sensory organ you can't do it. Changes in an electric current flowing through your nerve fibers and neurons aren't a sensory organ. That's why I don't think you could store that in a tinmind.

Hard to say. Most orders don't have that distinctive "combos" like Windrunners do. Like what Edgedancers have? It might be that because all powers are granted by separate Honorblades, you won't get anything more than normal Radiant orders get. Or you would get something more subtle, some weird little things that you can do with Gravity and Progression, because of how those powers interact together. However there is nothing on this, no information, no WoB, that's all speculative at this time.