alder24

It might be that because they're animals less spikes are needed for Hemalurgic control. But that's a wild assumption. I would just consider the regular rule of 4 spikes to gain control - and yes, just give them whatever spikes you want without anything mental and you can control them. Or create a new Hemalurgic construct that requires less than 4 spikes for control, like Kandra (easier said than done, Rashek couldn't do it in 1000 years).

We're in a Mistborn forum, put that please in a spoiler box SA spoilers: I know that pain. There is a possibility that every attribute spike creates a Hemalurgic construct, as we didn't see it working otherwise. In that case spiking a horse with a copper would change it, maybe even drastically. Hard to say. But to add more, just like in the case of Kandra's copper Blessing, adding more mental abilities to a person/animal would make it more resistant to Hemalurgic control, even if it makes a hole in a soul, it counteracts some of your control. Plus you wouldn't be able to fully control it with just one spike, likely more are needed.

SA spoilers:

Another F-tin thread? You spoil us Objectively speaking, if you were a Ferring and were living a daily, almost regular life, there are few metals which would be useful, of course that's all dependent on your activities, hobbies and daily life. Let's talk about applications of all metals but alone, without any other invested arts at your disposal: Iron (weight) - it's a perfect choice for rock climbers, with reduced weight you can climb easier and reach the peak of every mountain. You can also fall from any height without any worry of injuring yourself. Additionally you can store it all the time, whatever you do, becoming lighter, which would be helpful in walking as less energy is required to move muscles. When tapping you can stand heavily on the ground and become unmovable. You can also break through floors, doors and walls, or even collapse whole buildings when needed. In combat you can fall on your opponent and trap them under your weight. Steel (speed) - there is soo much to steel it's hard to write everything down. You can be faster at every activity you perform. Traveling any distance is now faster, especially on bikes. This metal is perfect for people who are always late and always complain that the day is too short. The downside of steel is it's storing, it's hard to collect a large amount of speed. In combat you have a huge advantage, as just by being two or three times faster you'll be uncatchable, and could strike faster than they can react. It's a great and deadly combination. Useful in all aspects of your life. Tin (senses) - you cover it well several times already, I don't think I need to add anything. Pewter (strength) - this is also very useful in your daily life. You can carry and lift heavy objects - perfect for any physical labor. It also gives you more endurance, because with stronger muscles you can run faster and longer, climb higher and so on. Any sportsman would appreciate extra strength. In combat you can strike stronger. You also aren't that restricted in storing as with speed, because there are many moments in your daily life when strength isn't needed. Zinc (mental speed) - thinking faster whenever you need is great. Increase in your mental processing speed is underappreciated. It changes your life! All people would benefit if they could just think more. It has applications not only when solving complex mathematical problems, but also during conversations (did you even have a "I should have told them this instead" moment?). Everyday work is better when you can think like 4 people at once, solving problems before anyone could ever notice them. Every problem you will face will be easier to solve, every new topic to learn will be simple to understand, an extremely useful tool for scientists or just people who like or need to think a lot. In combat it gives you an edge, useful for analyzing your opponent's moves, postures and surroundings and almost "predicting" their next move. You can calculate the trajectory of thrown objects in your mind, or the trajectory of a weapon strikes. Thinking faster during combat is very deadly. Brass (warmth) - you're cold - tap brass, you're hot - store in brass. No longer will temperature be an issue to you. No cold feet, no cold nights, no hot summers. You have control. You can't be burned by fire, you can't get frostbites from the cold. You can drink your hot beverage as soon as water boils. And you can share your ideal temperature with a simple hug! When camping you can ignite fire with a single touch, and suffer not from weather conditions. You can become an ice cream machine by just freezing the water in the cup you're holding, or heating up the air around you on winter days for others to enjoy. In combat you can heat up your body and burn your opponent with every touch, be untouchable, burn the ropes which bind you. That's one of Feruchemical abilities (if not the only one) that can be very easily shared with others, with just a simple touch or others being in close proximity to you. Copper (memory) - most knows well what can be done with it. Anything you read, see or hear can be stored. Any knowledge you gain can be never forgotten. Very useful. Except in modern days we have access to the interned with a tap of our finger, almost all knowledge is there to find. But with copper you can forget anything you want and experienced you favorite movie for the first time again (despite watching it for the 37th time). Every person that easily forgets stuff can just store it and be always sure of their shopping list. It's very useful in daily life. In combat there is almost no applications. You can however prepare to combat, for example by learning how to counter a sword of your opponent from books you stored in your copperminds. If you have enough time to prepare, you can use copperminds to learn new combat skills. Bronze (wakefulness) - the only attribute you can store when sleeping. It's useful if you have to combat tiredness, spend the night working, or you just want to fall asleep as soon as you go to bed. In combat there are almost no applications, it could help you a bit to be less tired, and keep your attention when you are on guard duty. Chromium (Fortune) - magical Fortune, giving you a gut feeling of what to do. There is little information about it, but it can be a very powerful tool. Even in everyday life it can help you decide, helping you get the best outcome possible. In fighting it might provide an instinctive ability to "feel" your opponent's moves.However it’s worth noting that because of the lack of information about chromium, this is based on speculations - it can be a really powerful tool, or just change nothing in your daily life, because you would need to tap too much Fortune to make a difference. Nicrosil (ability to use investiture) - It's an interesting ability but on its own, you can only store your own ability of F-nicrosil (wouldn't that make you unable to tap it back, as you now lack the ability to tap nicrosil at all? And not, medallions aren't the same as nicrosilminds of Ferring). At best you could avoid being sensed by a Lifesense by storing in nicrosil (WoB). Unless you're hoarding different abilities from across Cosmere, then you could do some fun stuff with them. In combat there is no direct application of nicrosil. Aluminum (Identity) - another metal which we know almost nothing about. What does storing Identity do? On its own it has far less applications, with other invested abilities you can do some interesting things, likely. Like with Chromium and Nicrosil, we have to wait a bit longer to understand what Aluminum does. Duralumin (Connection) - this is a fun one. We know something about it. You can speak in languages of people in a foreign nation you're in. Very useful tool for travelers. You can walk around town and be sure nobody will notice you if you store your connections (this includes sneaking into a secure and restricted place). You can make others notice you. You can make friends and form connections easier, or make this one irritating telemarketer forgets you in no time. You're not only connected to places and people, but also to time and fate - everything is connected, that gives you a multitude of possibilities, we barely understand now. In combat you could theoretically tap so much connection that your opponent would consider you as your friend and wouldn't want to fight you - then go have fun together and everybody would win. Cadmium (breath) - useful for both mountain climbing and deep water diving. You don't have to carry any oxygen tank with you. You're immune to toxic gasses like CO. In combat you can't be suffocated or put into sleep with narcotics. Bendalloy (energy) - do you love eating? This is metal for you. Eat all you want and never gain weight. No physical activity will be that exhausting with a constant supply of energy in your metalmind. Drink all you want and store it for later to extinguish your thirst. I wonder if you could store alcohol in it as well? Very useful in everyday life. In combat you can tap it to replenish your energy which would help you to be as fresh and energetic as at the beginning of the fight, fighting against your exhaustion. Gold (health) - no illness will ever torment you if you don't want to be ill. No wound would make you suffer, no injury would prevent you from being active. Storing is a pain, literally, but tapping grants so many benefits, and saves your life during accidents. In combat you are temporally unkillable, you can heal almost any injury, fall from any distance - as long as you have enough health and are touching your goldminds. Electrum (determination) - and at last we have the best attribute, determination, just kidding. Electrum will certainly help you be determined and keep working, partially avoid depression or fall into a manic state. When storing you will be depressed, which isn't good. In combat nothing much, just being very determined to fight, which doesn't give you that much. That took longer than expected. Based on that I don't think you can objectively say which metal is the best for everybody, as different people do different stuff and would appreciate different metals. That being said, there are few that have a wide application in daily life: steel, pewter, zinc, brass, duralumin, bendalloy and gold are the most useful and versatile. Which one is the best? Hard to say. In Cosmere Connection is an extremely important attribute, binding you to everything and everyone, you could achieve greatness as a F-duralumin Ferring. Personally I think F-zinc can improve every aspect of your life, mind is a very powerful tool on its own, sharpening it will make it even better. Oh, I like you! You're smart! Feruchemical? I'm not a native english speaker but that's what seems right to me. Feruchemist is for a person who has Feruchemy.

That's why I said it's like a fusion reactor - there are almost no fusion reactors around Sazed doesn't like Sazedium (that's a good thing, it's hard to say), Harmonium sounds better.

SA spoilers:

You can create a metalmind that stores all attributes, I wouldn't be surprised if that would involve god metals, and could be replicated by Trellium as well, or at least Trellium could replace a specific metalmind.

Thank you for welcoming me in your ranks. I will certainly enojoy storing my sense of responsibility (figuratively) while being with you. Are there some other incriminating fun activities you engage in? <writing in my notes "I've successfully infiltrated the F-tin cult and was greeted by F-tin Overlord herself!! They suspect nothing, I remain a master of disguises. They gave me a spicy food, it tasted delicious with extra pain and taste for newly acquired tinminds. Tinminds seem to be quite useful, I wonder what are other applications of tinminds in daily life. That’s just an academic curiosity, there is no reason to worry, I will remain faithful to the cause. I need to find more incriminating information. I hope they don’t hear me writing this from another room, I mean F-tin can’t be that good, am I right? He he."> You should think about acquiring an Aviar with some other sensing ability. That could be another cool combo.

No. It isn't a sense! It's Fortune! That's an attribute everyone in Cosmere has, integral to them. Is your identity a sense? No, it's something else. Just like Fortune. There is also another thing that you wrote there with which I disagree, but I see no point in pointing that out Knowing the Atium economy, it's like using a fusion reactor as a paper weight. Even if you have a ton of paper, it would be better to connect that reactor to the grid. There is just no Atium for that. If you get Atium in your hands, you'll keep it to save your life in emergency. Savantism require years of tapping to be affected. If you have lot of Atium, then you can try, but Atium burns so fast you would Kandra HoA cache amount of Atium to become a Savant.

I am almost certain it would act just like a normal, directional force vector. Just like in Allomantic steel push, it has one direction in a straight line, away from you. While the distance to the steel will be a factor, increasing the force if steel is closer, in a steel barrel at any point there is the same strong force acting from a steel just around the bullet in front of it and behind it, making the steel very close to the bullet have almost no effect on that bullet, while all effect would be from metal away from it, which isn't countered by any metal behind it, even though the force of that metal is weaker than the force of metal metal surrounding the bullet, there is still a foot or more of steel in front of the bullet, adding it up to a lot of force, pushing it into the back of the barrel. Even a steel backplate would add something, but not as much to overcome the force of the whole steel barrel pushing it back, you would need a very big backplate to counteract that. That's a messy explanation, I can't word it in a better way. What I mean is the force of an iron bullet being pulled towards expanding gas will negate the additional force of expanding gas being pulled towards the iron bullet. Just imagine 2 magnets stuck together at opposite poles, by pushing the one magnet you push also the other magnet with the same force - that push is the pressure of expanding gas, but the magnets don't gain any more speed due to them being attracted to each other. Basically you gain nothing from it, an iron bullet will behave just like a lead bullet in this configuration. The force of aether gas pulled towards an iron bullet is nullified by the force of iron bullet being pulled back towards aether gas.

Everything has a cognitive aspect. But by the Underwater_Worldhopper's logic, the cognitive aspect of a baby/animal develops during their lifetime. There is no problem with that. If the Stick can have a cognitive aspect, a baby would have no problem with traveling into CR. I do agree that most mammals should be influenced by emotional allomancy, at least to a slight degree. Personally I've always imagined TLR arriving at the square, where Kelsier killed the Inquisitor, in a carriage without a driver, just by using very powerful emotional Allomancy on horses alone. That looks just so cool in my mind. SA slight spoilers:

I'm here to infiltrate your cult and report you to police authorities. I had an epiphany! Harmony spoke to me in a dream, he said "go to the F-tin cult and join them, praising the greatness of F-tin!" I want to join your group! I have no ill intentions, not at all. Everything is fine. I just loooooove F-tin. <starts sweating> <writing in my notes "the cult seems to practise ritualistic torture"> Technically speaking, no Feruchemy, except copper and aluminum, allows you to store 100% of the attribute, you would still feel something. Yikes , replying to the comment made 2.5 years ago feels like breaking the law. Zinc, people and society would benefit greatly from stopping and thinking for a moment, some would never join the F-tin cult if they thought more about it more. Ummmm I mean, F-tin is the best, there is nothing better than it! Long live F-tin Overlord! <sweating intensifies> Now that I think about it, Bendalloy would be pretty cool during a combat situation. You could constantly provide calories and water to your body, which would drastically reduce the exhaustion felt by your muscles, allowing you to remain at top condition during the entire battle (some lasts for hours or days), as strong as at the beginning of the battle. Siege? No problem, you can't cut me off supplies, I have years worth of calories and water in my bendalloyminds. Not to mention storing poisoned food. That sounds useful. <writing in my notes "the cult is training in combat to take over Cosmere"> <writing in my notes "the cult lures you in with spicy food, personal note: that's very hard to resist, I like it, must resist spicy food, but it's so yummy"> <writing in my notes "the cult engages in animal abuse, personal note: it made my cry"> Awakener, store while having 2000 Breaths, tap later and have the best color recognition and perfect pitch with just a single tap without any diminishing returns. So efficient. Add to it aura recognition, lifesense, investiture sense etc. You have only a single Breath, or nothing at all, and have troubles recognising which people are invested? Tap tin and see the slightest color change around them. Awakening is so awesome. Not only do you get great passive effects from having Breaths, you can also create zombies, animate objects for your convenience, replicate basically everything nature produced, but also create life! That's just amazing. If I had to choose Allomantic power, It would likely be A-pewter. That's another great power for convenient everyday life. Flying with A-steel is cool and fun, but being stronger, faster, improved balance, resistant to pain and exhaustion give a bit more than just flight. With F-tin you could become pewter savant without worrying that you will die halfway through. <writing in my notes "the cult formed an alliance with F-duralumin club, personal note: I wonder if F-duralumin club tapped duralumin to make F-tin Overlord friendly to their cause, tricking him into this alliance. It's worth further investigation. I should look at this F-dualumin Club which claims to be not a cult, they might be a cult in disguise."> Did you Awaken your cult? I like this, +1 point for you. Well, I'm still waiting! Rusts, I'm not good at this. I mean, yes my overlord! <writing in my notes "he wants to bring back the world of ash"> <writing in my notes "Final assessment: The F-tin cult is extremely dangerous, they grow in numbers attracting zincless victims and practise ritualistic torture and animal abuse to feed on senses of their innocent victims. Their ultimate goal is to subjugate the whole Earth and Cosmere under F-tin rule. They will stop at nothing until everyone falls victim to their F-tin Overlord who feeds on the sense of reason of his subjects. They must be stopped at all costs. One metalmind to rule them all, one metalmind to find them all, one metalmind to bring them all, and senselessly bind them.">

And yet Kaladin fulfilled another Death Rattle by swearing 4th Ideal at the end of RoW. I don't agree that Death Rattles are wrong. From storytelling reasons that would be just wasteful. Mistborn Spoilers: Yes, Elhokar's son Gavinor. But as I mentioned in another thread, I'm focusing mainly on the consequences of the duel and the loophole used, not on champions.

That's what I meant. We humans look at the art just for pleasure. It isn't a part of any mating or feeding ritual, unlike in animals that I've listed. Yes, they see the beauty, they have to to determine which mate is better, which flower is healthier etc, but most animals just don't look at beautiful things as we look at them. That was my point. There are animals that can be soothed/rioted per WoB. Yes, that's a very good explanation. But the same question still remains - when will animals have enough cognitive presence to be affected by Allomancy? How sapient do they need to be? Yyy, nothing special? Just like taking anything with you, like taking horses with you (you know which one), or objects. They would just be there. Being physically in CR doesn't change their level of sapiency.

Wait. Why me? What's wrong with me? What am I rejecting? Atium is broken, it's OP, and that's a good thing. You're right here! Something on a much smaller scale - zinc gives you mental speed, Atium future sight, combine you have better ability to predict/calculate how objects you see will move, an instinct to determine their path - to some extent, not that you'll be able to see a bullet or something. But a moving car? No problem. Fortuneseeker? Mindbender? Soothsayer? Good combo, but burning Atium just to store in zinc is the greatest waste imaginable.

Huh, now that I think about it, a steel barrel will act like gravity when dropping something into a theoretical tunnel through the Earth's center - spores loaded into a gun will be pushed from all that steel that's in front of them, pushing them into the back of the gun, not pushing the bullet out of the barrel. This would counteract the pressure of expanding zephyr air trying to push the bullet out of the barrel, with the force from all that steel trying to push that air away from steel - into the direction of the back of the gun. The force of the steel push would be equalized in the middle of the barrel, as equal amounts of steel are in front and behind spores, and from that point on, steel will help to push spores out of the barrel. Using steel for a barrel might backfire tragically, literally, blowing the gun in your face, as that's where steel is pushing spores. Steel back plate might help with it, but that's a tiny amount of steel compared to the whole barrel, it would only bring the point of equilibrium closer to the back of the barrel, but not by that much. The bullet made out of iron itself would make it even worse - yes, it will pull the air towards itself, but there is little gremlin known as Newton's 3rd law of motion: for every action (force) there is an equal and opposite reaction - this would create a force, acting on the bullet, directed at the back of the gun, slowing it down, not speeding it up. The better construction would be having only steel back plate + a steel ring just around the back section of the bullet, rest of the barrel should be made out of different metal, with another iron ring at the barrel outlet, pulling spores to it - however iron at the end of the barrel might affect spores in the bullet, pulling them back and resulting in deceleration of the bullet (depending on when spores are activated, some like vines are activated quite early iirc). Additionally it would be the best to change the igniter/hammer of the gun, as the gun is like guns from early modern period - its hammer is on the outside of the gun, and there is a little hole in the back of the barrel, where the bullet sits, through which gunpowder (in this case spores) inside the barrel is ignited. This hole allows the pressure to escape. A little, but still. Changing the design to more like a modern gun design, with bullets in shells, will help to mitigate that problem even more - but that's more or less outside of the possibilities of Lumar's technology for now.

Oh in that way. You definitely should have specified that. If she manages to deal with her personality disorder and fully recover, then yes, she could be a good dual Shard holder. But for which Shards is another question. She needs not only very strong connections to both Shards but also a deep and detailed understanding of those Shards' nature.

Except for El being once Vyre, there is almost no connection between him and Odium's champion. Him writing a poem for the last section of the book is just a dramatic way of revealing to us the change of Odium's Vessel (which I loved when I first read it, such a genius way of keeping you in tension and confusion). Anti-Voidlight was already tested by Raboniel and Navani, nothing new here. As for the foreshadowings of Odium's champion, we should be looking at clues way back to WoK, not the last 19 chapters (not even a multiple of 9) of the most recent book. He can be the champion, I just don't see any foreshadowing for it. Tbf I'm not focusing on candidats that much. I'm much more interested in this loophole and the consequences of the Contest of Champions. I wrote about it in another thread about loophole, here if you're interested. El just doesn't fit my theory

I don't see anything in RoW epigraphs foreshadowing El as Odium's champion. I see it more plausible (but don't believe this would be the case as there are better candidates) that Moash will face Dalinar and Elhokar's son, Gavinor, will jump into the arena to kill his father's killer, possibly influenced by Unmade. There is nothing in those epigraphs written by El indicading he will be the champion, I see no foreshadowing here.

But we didn't see any shadow like in the case of Moash. There was just light.

I think with identity you would be able to change the center of iron pull on your body, which is still possible without it, but F-aluminum would make it easier. Other than that I have no idea what that Twinborn could do. SA spoilers WoB:

Humans existed in Cosmere before Preservation and Ruin made the deal, before Preservation and Ruin even existed - that's how they knew what they should look like. In that case they are almost the same as everywhere else. But they're invested in a different way. In most of the places in Cosmere humans are invested with a mix of 16 different Shards, in some places people's mix of investiture has one dominant investiture of just one or two Shards, but because they've come from Yolen (where the first humans existed), they are still a mix of 16 Shards. Not on Scadrial. Here they're invested only with Preservation's and Ruin investiture. That gives a big advantage to Preservation and Ruin in influencing Scadrians. They can place thoughts in their mind, hear them and talk to them, pull on their emotions, push them in the direction they want etc, something that most Shards can't do with their people, because they didn't create them. Another big difference is that all Scadirians have a "seed" of metalic arts in their soul, which no other people in Cosmere have, granted there are other invested arts on different planets, most are not genetically transferable (Breath are to some degree, and that's mostly it, on Roshar you need to bond a spren, on Sel you need to be born in certain area, or live there long enough to consider this area your home). The other, more minor difference, connected to a "seed" of metallic arts, is innate investiture, investiture that invests people, but is more like an additional part of their soul. On Scadrial that's the Preservation's fragment within every person, that extra bit of Preservation in every Scadrian invests them a bit more that people from other planets are invested. On Nalthis innate investiture is in the form of Breaths. Because of that Scadrians are a bit more invested than people anywhere else (in most cases). And this gives them better immunity to illnesses and some other minor things. And I think that is mostly it.

What if you don't know where your enemy is? What if you don't have coordinates to create AonTia? What if your enemy is changing positions fast? What if you don't want to kill somebody just to deliver your warhead? What if you don't have access to teleportation? In case of Elsecalling for now we don't know how teleportation work and what are its limits, it allows for worldhopping (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/44/#e655), but except for Elsecalling boosted by a Bondsmith during destruction of Ashyn, all other forms of Elsecalling are shown to be restricted (Oathgates, Nex-im can't take anything with them, Jasnah traveling in and out of CR, not within PR). Yes, in the future Elsecalling will be expanded and this will likely include teleportation within PR. But if you don't know where your enemy is, you need to be closer to detect it in the first place - that's what the missile is for. And it was fun making it up. Teleportation is just boring. Edit: Brandon's magic is about limitations. I'm almost certain that you won't be able to just teleport nukes right where the enemy is, just like time bubbles aren't railguns which create microwaves or x-rays.

If I were this lizard-Charlie I would stand back when two Elantrians have a stand-off. Nope, I'm not getting between them, I would hide just to make sure my master Riina won't notice me and give me a suicidal order. But that's just me.

The question is why did thunderclast die as soon as Renarin shined a light at him? That's too easy. I think you've missed an important part of the quote at the beginning, as soon as Renarion showed up, the thunderclast stepped back in fear. It feared Renarin, Truthwatcher, for some reason. What is so special about this light that made him go away? Was that some kind of weird Regrowth+Illumination combo, using light to "heal" stone back to its original form, banishing Voidspren within it? I doubt it is just fear of soulcasting, or it mismatched Renarin's order or whatever.