alder24

One more rule! Mixing - if there are two balls on a tile of a different color, and you throw a third one which color is the one you would get from mixing colors of those 2 balls, you get 100 points, also you ignore all negative points you would get in that throw and other players can't use that color in their next throw. Example: there is a yellow and blue ball on some tile. If you throw on that tile a green ball (which is what you get from mixing blue+yellow) you have Mixing, get 100 points more and others can't throw green ball in their next move. Sounds cool for me. But I don't know if you can get every mixing of every color we have, but some of them can be made and that would be fun.

This topic was moved recently from the Mistborn forum.

That's why I said, by the definition of "the program" (simulation) density can't be defined by mass (physically it is), as WoBs are talking about density not being changed at all. Or there are 2 variables: spiritual mass and physical mass - Wax is changing his physical mass, but not his spiritual mass (which defines his density), that's why his spirit knows to what mass the body needs to go back after he stops using ironminds. Very similar to how Rashek's age and Atium was described - he was changing his physical age, not spiritual age and his body snapped back to its spiritual age when he lost his atiumminds. There likely are some functions that allow to change spiritual attribute based on physical attribute’s value (in “the program”).

Expanding on this idea, if 3 balls of the same color are matching the color of the segment they are on, the last ball gets triple points? And by a segment I mean the pie portion - the whole yellow part of the board. 3 yellow balls in the yellow segment, even on different tiles, then the 3rd ball gets triple points. Or instead of triple points, you get the points that the other 2 balls are worth (without retrieving those points from other players). What's better? What are the definitions? to be clear: Tbf we have to make rules for gaining points in the first place. The very center of the board, white tile can give like 300 points. Then every ring further from the center gets fewer points - 175, 150, 125, 100, 50. If the color of your ball matches the color of the pie section, you get 50 more points. More to spice it up a bit, if your ball lands on the very opposite section of your ball's color, you get -50 points - for example, blue ball landing on an orange tile, closest to the center - you can 175 for the tile, but -50 for mismatched colors = 125 points in total for the throw. But if your blue ball lands on the tile next to the tile where someone else’s blue ball is, you get 25 more points, 50 points instead if both balls are on the blue section. Throwing a blue ball into the same tile where another blue ball already is, gives you 50 points. There can be other balls on that tile as well, but not the opposite color - not an orange ball when you're throwing a blue ball, in that case: throwing a blue ball into a tile where the ball of the opposite color is, gives you -50 points. If on a ring there are exactly 1 ball on each tile, and you throw in the last one, you get 200 points - if all balls match the color of tiles they're on, you get 200 more points, or if all balls are of the same color, you get 50 points (on top of the first 200) - only you, only the last person that closed that ring. Go crazy, if on a single section, all tiles have a ball matching a section's color (5 yellow balls in a yellow section, each in its own tile) the last person completing it gets 200 points. If on a single tile there are 10 balls, each has a different color, you have a rainbow completion which gives the last thrown ball 500 points (and no negatives for the ball of the opposite color being there as well). Maybe the "Crown Pairing" happens only on the center white tile - if there is only one ball in that tile, and you throw in the opposite color - you get a crown pairing, but there are now 2 balls there, nobody can get it anymore? Scoring on the white tile can work differently. But if there are 10 balls there, all have a different color, the last one gets 1000 points. On the white tile throwing a ball that is already there (like a blue ball is there you throw in another) gives you -100 points, and you have to skip your next rounds. Hmm I got a bit overboard with those rules (pun intended). With more rules like that, based on a tile and balls already in them, the fewer rules can be applied just to the balls that you've taken - like the blue ball being a doubling sphere. But rules to the balls can be applied as well, but on a "smaller" scale - pick up a green ball and the next person has to match his ball color with a tile color, otherwise he will get 0 points.

For more than 7000 years out of around 10000 years since the Shattering, Odium was present on Roshar, immediately pushing people into multi-generational genocide. Most of Roshar’s shardic history is with Odium being there. And Odium was given permission to settle in the system by Honor and Cultivation - which suggests they were both willing to sacrifice people of Roshar just to trap Odium there. Not a balance system. Yes, they would be fitting together. That’s a great analysis of yours. "Evolution" would be a fitting name for that combination. It's really hard to say if there is a Vessel capable of resisting Odium alone. Ati afterall was a kind and generous man and we all know how he ended. The only way to tamper Odium is to Ascend with a second Shard - for this new Vessel is needed and it needs to be done quite fast, as every Vessel will eventually succumb to Shard's overwhelming intent. Not necessarily. I see the pairing of Honor and Odium that could result in a directional hate - Shard of War would direct the hate against their enemies, while Shards like Justice might direct it against those who have broken their promises and oaths, bringing them a divine punishment. It’s not perfect in both cases but manageable at least. This will depend on how equal are powers of both Shards and the mindset of their new Vessel. It's really interesting to see if Taravangian will continue Rayse attempts to redefine Odium's intent into Passion, if yes how successful will he be at that. Fully changing Odium to Passion might partially solve some issues with this Shard. Which resulted in the death of Leras and Splintering of Honor. The very same fate would likely happen to those trying to bind Odium right after the Shattering. Preservation gave up his mind, which weakened him, making him a shell of a Shard. Almost mindless. And Honor is in pieces. It's not that easy to bind a Shard. This action would very likely be seen as breaking of the agreement of not interfering with one another, exposing all 15 Shards to Odium at the same time. Moreover it seems some (maybe even most) of Shards supported the attack on Ambition or Devotion and Dominion - not only Mercy and Autonomy aided Odium, but Endowment has some very harsh words about Ambition's Vessel Uli Da, Aona and Skai, OB first letter:

The WoB said molten state of the metal would affect investiture, some weird things might happen when you try to tap or store in it.

Yes, it's a decent analogy. Mass is a variable, so is density, but density is not defined by mass (weirdly, rather density is a constant) so a change of mass won't change density. But I think that a better analogy is that your spirit web is just a spiritual DNA, coding everything you have: attributes, abilities, powers, connections and so on. You can rip off part of your sDNA chain and it will still work, you can heal it back with enough investiture, or if damage is too severe, further functioning is not possible and it breaks either killing you or "mutating" you into an insane person of some sort. Just like DNA in our cells - it can reconnect broken chains, fix mutations and damages done to it, but if DNA is damaged too badly, the cell would either be killed, or become a cancer cell. Too late! I'm already a truthseeker! Scadrial is in the center of hollow Roshar but mists and clouds obstruct the view so you can't see the curvature or the other side of it! #Awakentomytruth!

You can still tap molten metal, while dangerous, it's possible: Also those "upper limits" might have something to do with duralumin and compounding: And there are some known upper limits - for F-steel you can't run too fast as the air will burn you, and the speed of light is the absolute limit. For F-atium there will be a moment when you can't store enough youthfulness, to prevent your body from aging. For F-iron, you're getting heavier but moving slower and slower. For F-pewter you can tap so much strength that you won't be able to move at all, because of your bulkiness. As WoB said, with F-brass this is something hard to hurt yourself by tapping heat, and likely involves melting your metalminds. There are however lower limits on Feruchemy - you can't store 100% of any attribute. You can't store all your weight, all your speed, all your temperature. So if there is a lower limit, why not an upper limit?

Great combination, specialized in hand to hand combat (yes, for sure in the style of monks). I like Well, you can melt your brassmind - brass melting point is 930°C (1710°F). But if you tap lots of heat, that your surrounding is dangerously hot, if you stop tapping, you can get hurt - but that's not a smart thing to do, just start storing heat and you'll be fine in that hot environment. Now that I think about it, Firesoul is probably the only Ferring that can generate attributes to store while tapping his metalmind. That's very, very useful. In the WoB you mentioned, Brandon said that it's very hard to tap so much heat that you'll die. Possible, but hard. There is likely some upper limit of how much your body can handle, maybe melting point of bones (1670°C (3038 °F))? Not because of heating your enviroment (this can cause harm to careless Ferring, who forgets that he can store that heat), but rather because there are some very high upper limits of how much your "immunity" can handle.

Yes, that's the rule: But this WoB suggest that Leecher can just burn away all their metals, including piercings and invested metals (very likely intent matters, what Nicki Savage did in BoM broadsheet): Edit: Great combination, specialized in hand to hand combat (yes, for sure in the style of monks). I like the name Firetouch for this one. You can not only drain their investiture away, but also burn them (or freeze them) while doing so - which would be very confusing for them, as when drained they feel a sudden coldness - how would that interact with touch at 100 degree Celsius? Make them feel cold without feeling their skin burning? Or make them feel fire without feeling their investiture and metals go away? Sounds cool. This is a very surprising combination.

No problem, I enjoyed writing it This is very important and it will be explained in HoA. The bead that Elend swallowed at the Well is something different. Elend as a Mistborn won't change that much in book 3. He won't replace Vin, he won't change the story, won't change his role or Vin's role in that story, but it will change the way he develops as a character - for better. Here are words of Brandon addressing your concerns: This is again a great observation and is a very important piece of puzzle explained in HoA. Note that Elend ate the last bead of this metal that was in the Well. Mistborn book 3 is more like book 1, not book 2. Give it a try, read it. Many questions that you have right now will be answered and many confusing parts will be cleared out. I really recommend it to you, to finish HoA, it is truly a fantastic end to the trilogy, one of the best there is, dealing with all the questions that are still left unanswered, concluding the arcs of all characters, exploring the lore of book 1 in great details, and addressing the very issues that you have right now - like Elend not being suited to be a Mistborn.

Because books are about people and their struggle, not just action. Because what's important is character arcs, not mindless killing. Because it's far better to read about Elend changing from an idealistic bookworm, who believed everyone will do what's right to do, into a charismatic leader who's among his people when they're needing him, who takes responsibility for his citizens and their well being. Vin changing and accepting herself for who she is, realizing that she can love Elend and be loved despite her flaws and their differences, opening herself to him. Sazed's arc finding his long lost love and losing it almost at the same time, realizing that despite carrying hundreds of religions in his copperminds, none of them have any value to him in this moment of grief - he's broken now. Those steps are necessary for characters to move forward, towards the final book. Without them book 3 wouldn't work at all - you need to read it to see it. WoA also covers an important story - what happens after a successful revolution? In fantasy this topic is not covered that often. Here it is portrayed in a realistic way - killing an all-powerful tyrant leaves a power vacuum that everyone wants to fill in. It wasn't supposed to be easy. They should struggle to withstand their moral high ground against new tyrants arising left and right. And they needed to face the consequences of their actions. The clever scheming that you're mentioned is what they tried to do. But their enemies were doing the same thing - both Straff and Cett were also scheming and planning how to win and both of them outsmarted Elend and almost took over. And why did armies and their leaders like Cett bow before Vin? She is the last Mistborn still living, Cett lost his last one months ago, before the siege started, Straff lost Zane just days ago failing to kill Vin, and has no replacement (and he died). Straff's army lost most of their officers when the battle began, killed by Vin. And Vin had an army of Koloss. The choice is simply - die or kneel. I will admit this to you, there are some weak parts of this book. Some sections drag a bit too long, and the whole love triangle is just bad. However even if I personally don't like the Vin-Elend-Zane triangle, it leads to some of the best moments in the book - Elend finding Vin after her attack on Cett, and their marriage later on. But it's still a fantastic sequel that sets the stage for an amazing ending in the Hero of Ages, one of the most satisfying conclusions I've read. HoA is a true great ending, that wouldn’t be possible without WoA. You simply must read it, it’s far better than WoA. Here are words of Brandon about the ending of this book:

You don't need to soothe or riot them constantly to have control over them - once you take control, you have it almost permanently, and you don't need to burn anything. They're yours. What Vin did here with duralumin and brass is like establishing a connection between Koloss and her - once it's done, she has that connection no matter what metal she is burning or what she is doing. She can control them however she wants. She just needed to use duralumin to smash through their will and overwhelm them, as normal soothing isn't powerful enough to do that. This will be explored and explained further in book 3, The Hero of Ages (HoA). When she was talking to Penrod, after taking control of the first group of Koloss, she told him to get her more metals, and send soldiers into the city to lure Koloss closer without fighting them, and send somebody to inform her about new group of Koloss, so she can take control over them with dualumin and soothing/rioting. Over the period of the whole night, they did that and Vin took control over all remaining Koloss in the city. I hope that helped

Yeah, that won't work. As said, the majority of mass of an atom is coming form bonds holding that atom together, that's 99% of the mass. The Higgs Field gives mass to fundamental particles only - electrons, quarks etc - that's only less than 1% of atom's mass. Cosmere is a simulation!

Tbf knowing 3rd Oath Kaladin, he would order others to stand by and took Seers all by himself just to make sure none of his men would get killed Can they do that? Can they drop in 3 seconds, paint a thick line of Full Lashing? In 3 seconds? I doubt it. A single Seer would need around 1 m^2 of space, the whole formation would take around 50 m^2 of space - that's a circle with 4 m radius. A circle with 34 m radius has 314 m in circumference, that's 4.25 m section for every single Windrunner to paint - but it has to be THICK. 3-5 m thick. That's 12.7-21.3 m^2 for every single Windrunner to paint in 3 seconds... Good luck. That's all I will say. Plus Seers can put their cloaks on top of the Full Lashing line and just walk over it. Or pick some rocks from the ground and put it on the line and walk over it like through the river. Or untie their shoes and leave them on the line (not recommended). I have an opponent for you!

Yes, that's what I said in an earlier post. Here I should add "just because he flared Malatium''. My point was just flaring Malatium won't make a vision. Dying and flaring will. Burning duralumin with Malatium will as well.

Or Fortune makes him choose the right one all the time. And that was just an example, you don't need to make rules that forbids the use of any ball, just more or less focusing on points gained. But I personally like the idea of choosing balls to make sure other won't use favorable situation. I think all should stay. Plus making some rules for each section like "if there are more than 2 green balls, but less than 3, you get 1.5 more points". Again, crazy rules Yes. Yeah, that's why I think how others were throwing, how balls are positioned on the ball affects the way you can score, depending on the ball you chose.

No, because Hemalurgy and Ruin is actively repressed by Harmony.

That's possible. Both Horneaters and Herdazian have both singer and human mixed ancestors.

At this point you can make whatever rules you want and they will be just fine, as the only time we see this game is through the eyes of someone that doesn't know a single rule of this game (except for the one that says "pick a ball and throw it"). Just invent 10 different balls, each with different rules depending on which ball was thrown before or something like that - this game was really complicated and that's how I've always imagined it. That's like 100 possible combinations? Something like "after a blue ball is thrown, orange can't be used in the next round, but green gets double points if it lands in the circle, or 0 if not". The rows and columns could work with this as well, but for me it was always about which ball to choose depending on the previous throw. And another set of rules depending where balls will land - "if a green ball lands in a 2b sector, and there is red ball there, you get double points". Just go crazy with things like that. This is how I've always imagine this game to work, just massive amounts of rules, for every ball, every color, every place where it can land, so much that not only Lightsong don't know any of those rules, but other Returns just don't remember all of them (they were surprised that he chose orange ball and didn't know what made him do that).

The Hemalurgist has 2 identities, one of his own, the second one from his spike, where his power comes from. I think this is what messes up with his compounding. Simply burning an unkeyed metalmind won't work. If he were to burn his own metalmind, it's still in conflict with spike's identity or his own. He would need to blank the identity of the spike. All of this is very speculative for now.

Baby is likely the limit, because with duralumin you can turn into baby per this WoB:

They don't need to run away, as soon as they are out of the Full Lashing parameter, they can reorganized and regroup. There is 50 of them, not 1, and 50 Windrunners. If several Windrunners will attack a single Seer, several Seers will attack a single Windrunner, or immediately run to help him. Plus even when tired it took a long time, hours, for Seers in HoA to finally get killed, some were killed while still burning Atium, most after Atium run out. Many made several trips back to cave entrances to get more Atium. They were fighting tirelessly 300000 Koloss. And they began that fight by running to the Koloss lines. So yes, they will be fine after running for 12 seconds, and will be able to avoid attacts of several Windrunners at once. HoA ch 81: Edit: I haven't considered this. While For Windrunners Kal is a glue holding them together, for Seers that's not the case - every one of them have their powers independently from Elend and have their own stack of Atium. Elend can die and the rest will still fight. I will say that it is hard to kill Kaladin, because he has a Shardblade, that's the first problem, the second is efficient healing, compared to squires. It really depends if decapitation would immediately kill him, which is unlikely I have to admit. It would take some time to kill Kaladin, It's possible with Atium, but with that amount of Stormlight they have, it will take some time to exhaust his supply. Using duralumin enhanced Atium will not kill Kaladin, as he can heal. Therefore there is no reason for Elend to use it. And Elend with Atium can dodge almost everything that others throw at him - for an hour.

Weird, because a quick google search tells me that recruiting standards for college are like 20 feets in long jump. I jumped further than 2m in high school. I don't have time to read into it more: https://www.athleticsrecruiting.com/trackandfieldrecruitingstandards.html - https://www.ncsasports.org/mens-track-and-field/scholarship-standards Many were. Demoux is one with them that's a soldier for at least 2-3 years. Elend was leading campaigns for a year before HoA. They had enough time to train and develop. His army was shown to be well trained and organized during the Fadrex siege. Those Seers were in his army for at least a year, some longer, as many soldiers from Luthadel's garrison were paid to join Elend's army after TFE. Plus after WoA, a well trained and experienced army of Cett and Straff joined Elend.

Used by a person with his eyes glowing in glod and red. That's why I'm skeptical about RL power. Can't. I'm eating the ends. They can make a step through a 1 meter line, hop through 2 meters. That's not enough. On a circle, 100 meters in radius? 647 meters long? Few? That's a big area to cover by "few" squires. And every squire taken away from painting, means more painting for each one remaining, which makes it more unreasonable. Windrunners are busy painting and Seers can dodge while running. What are you talking about? Football players can dodge while running with the ball. No problem. It's not that heavy... They don't have plate armor. Tbf, Brandon's soldiers rarely have any armor at all... He can quickly squat and push them by metal objects they have on them, belt, armor, sheathed sword held in their hands. Whatever. A shotgun is enough, sword will be as well. Not by throwing coins at them... I can make a step 1.5 meters long, and I'm not that athletic. Step, without taking my foot off the ground. 15 meters away? Seers will see them drawing the line with Atium Shadow and run away from that parameter before "the paint" hits the ground. They need less than 2 seconds to run that distance. Plus 50 men would already almost cover that entire area of the circle, or most of it, so they're even closer to the edge. Slalom is a thing... You can turn while running, make steps to the side. I don't know how you get the idea that they need to run in a straight line. While the others would need only 4 seconds of running to get to the group that is attacked from the other side of the circle. No, but they're soldiers, they have far greater stamina than an average person. 1 minute? They need 12 seconds to escape the 100m circle and have 48 seconds to rest. Enough. I can run as fast as I could for 100 m and still be in good shape afterwards. Just please. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm asking a question.