alder24

Don't focus too much on that if you don't understand what Higgs Field is. Brandon is trying to explain how F-iron works without breaking too many laws of physics in the process. F-mass stores mass, but if that would be true, then density of the body should change, but it doesn't. He tries to explain it (or fans do) by using the Higgs Field - which is a field of energy that exists everywhere and interacts with every particle which passes through it (which is everything), giving it mass with those interactions. But that's going deep down into quantum physics - you need to just know that F-iron stores mass, without changing gravitational acceleration or density - this explains every use of F-iron. F-iron just breaks physics and there is no way to explain it with physics.

All of that is true. But as I've mentioned in this topic, WW1 technology can't kill a Fullborn. An Army of Mistborn, Mistings and Ferrings (I think there are 20k Metalborn in Era 2), supported by a Fullborn, would wreak havoc in WW1 lines. Fullborn alone can march from Berlin to Paris uninterrupted. They can't stop him.

No need for a spoiler box. Intent matters. Hemalurgy is Ruinous and with right intent you can even use Trellium spike to rip a piece of investiture out of a person. The same goes with Lerasium - Lerasium as a Preservation's metal is still capable of being used in Hemalurgy, which doesn't make sense, but it works, because of intent. It also might have corrupted the investiture in the spike or the charge it has, giving it a rusty red color:

This goes a little bit into SA spoilers, I tag it just in case but nothing much is spoiled:

Again, that's why I said it's possible that each platespren has a different special function. Just read 2 more posts up.

It's used differently - spiritual Adhesion works by touching and drawing the line of connection between two things, while physical Adhesion works by spraying "glue-like" Stormlight on the surface. Typical use of Adhesion is to manipulate pressure. Kaladin had like 30 squires, while other Radiant's had none in OB. In RoW other Radiants had less than 5, if even that, Jasnah and Dalinar had none, Renarin seems to have none), while Windrunners still has dozens of them. Plus with in-world books like Words or Radiants, which also mentioned unusually big number of Windrunner's squires, Khriss (who live for a very, very long time, and could have been living during the Last Desolation, or Recreance) has more than enough to know about it - plus we don't know when Khriss has written Ars Arcanum - it might be after SA 5 or ever after SA 10. And it is literally confirmed by multiple WoBs that the extra number of squires is the resonance of Windrunners. Read again one of the WoBs I showed when discussing with Frustration above. Brandon calls resonance as "The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power." which Reverse Lashing does fits - but it's a different kind of resonance, not the Resonance we're talking about with squires. It's keyed to the Shard. And yes, I think Kaladin did things like that, and Shallan retrieve Stromlight from her illusions, but I don't think Stormlight is keyed to them and I think (I might be very wrong) that Kaladin would be able to draw in Stormlight from Shallan's illusions - but I don't remember if that ever happened in books. I feel like it did, but I have no idea where. Maybe I was thinking about this?

Elantris spoilers: TotES spoilers: Edit: @Treamayne I've found the WoB about Riino:

Coppermind says that Full Lashing can last longer if more Stormlight is pour into it. That's why I'm asking. That assumption is ambiguous at best - in case of Mistborn it is simple, every power they have is fueled by different metal, they just got 1h of every metal. But Radiants fuel everything with Stormlight. What is an hour of fight? Using basic lashings for 1h at 10g? Reverse lashing everything for 1h? Or whatever we imagine Windrunners are capable of doing in 1h is possible for them to do? In that case they can just lift a plateau from the Shattered Plains and drop them at Seers at 30% of the speed of light - all that in 1h so by this assumption they have light to do it. That's why I can't wait for Brandon to standardize units of investiture, then we can just say "they have 10 units of investiture" and know how much investiture each power and surge is using. I think it was a table, so technically not the ground (joke) Let me clarify - Seer sees the rusting future! In melee combat there is no way for a Windrunner to defeat him. Period. It's really hard to immobilize someone that sees the future, Seer knows what Windrunner will do and will just avoid him. Spraying Full Lashing is not an option in close combat, as Seer can just move away, because he sees Windrunner doing that, he sees where Full Lashing is applied, and he knows where to go to avoid it - and a single Windrunner can't spray it in a circle 10 m in radius, he can't spray it all around the Seer at the same time. Seer can just avoid it. And Reverse Lashing won't make Seer "stumble" into a pool of Full Lashing 10 m away from him. 10 m is a distance that a Seer can for sure run in 1-3 seconds. The only way to immobilize Elend's army with Full Lashing is like Frustration said - first establish a parameter around them, spraying a big circle of Full Lashing so far away, that they can't just outrun you. Then just spray it closer and closer to them, until they can move at all. I’m not denying this won’t work - it will, but it is a time and investiture consuming process (and Elend can likely just duralumin steel push everyone out of the circle (better not, that would hurt them), or just carry them out). But in versus topic I'm rarely focusing on a single scenario. Fighting isn't a repetitive thing. It's dynamic and changing, and it can play differently each time. That's why I'm thinking, what if Windrunners don't draw a huge circle of Full Lashing, what can they do up close with Full Lashing? When you have a close fight, spraying Full Lashings won't work up close, as Seers can simply move away from it before Lasing even lands. Windrunners flying won't change anything for Seers - they can still avoid them, and avoid everything they throw and spray at Seers, they see it coming. My point with Yomen is to show that a physically inferior person, someone with almost no combat training at all, can still beat a skillful fighter if he has Atium. Therefore all the advantages of physical strength of the Windrunners don't matter. And I really would love to have a chapter and quote of Full Lashing applied from a distance - I don't remember it at all. Even when Seer somehow got their feet glued to the ground - he still has a sword to block every Windrunner's attack, he'll be fine, unless several of them at once starts to attack him (which would be not happening, as both sides have equal numbers and they would engage in 1 on 1 honorable combat, as seen in RoW). In that case, whatever they do, they won't kill Seers for an 1h. Until both sides run out of investiture. Then Windrunners will win, because Kaladin has a Shardblade and can run around cutting their spirits into pieces. Atium has an Atium Shadow... Shardplate has one too. Shardblade will have it as well, Full and Reverse Lashings are therefore very likely to have one as well. 50 vs 50. Windrunners in RoW are fighting 1 on 1. You can't really take 2 vs 1, without a second Seer coming and helping or attacking a different pair overwhelming a single squire. Not so easy. Their spear will get splintered into pieces by impact. Why not? As long as Seer sees that this won't result in him getting hurt, he can - which would happen everytime, as he can stab and dodge incoming attacks at the same time. He sees the future. Second Battle of Ypres - Apr 22, 1915 – May 25, 1915 - first use of toxic gas, total allied casualties - 80k. The effect of Nightblood during that battle was devastating - it was used for more than just a last resort. Weaker? Less invested - yes. But does it mean that he draws investiture slower? Unlikely. Do Returned need more Breaths to feed their Divine Breath when they have 50k Breaths? No. I don't see the reason why Nightblood's investiture consumption rate would change with more investiture. Taln is too, and yet he caught 2 darts with incredible speed - skills that Fused are lacking after the same time spent at fighting. He lost literally to deus ex machina! Preservation's Chosen One! Not a teenager but the Vessel for Mists! Hard to win against someone that starts drinking moisture from the air which gives her power and strength. I'm pretty sure that in SA 5 we will see Pursuer type Fused killed left and right, the only one type which currently pose a significant threat to Radiants. I agree with you, they were overhyped, Voidbringers, destruction etc, they came and don't live up to the hype. They should be as skilled as Heralds, or at least comparably.

TLM: BoM ch 7

Very unlikely to be that reliable, because its author, Hessi, was alive during the Final Desolation. It was written in current times, the knowledge of Unmades is simply lost and mostly non existing. The knowledge that Fused has access to only 9 Surges was already lost. From Coppermind: What if it's the other way around? What if the reason that Bondsmiths can use Spiritual Adhesion is because of Tension, and all normal uses of Adhesion are physical? Or what if its because of Bondsmith spren? What if it's the bond with big spren that gives this ability? In that case neither Windrunners, nor Fused, and maybe even Yelig-Nar won't have that. This is supported by the fact that the suppression effect of the Tower would mess up with Bondsmith vision (but that's likely because suppression is messing with bonds): The more powers you have the less resonances there are. With all 10 Surges there would be almost no resonances, nothing visible at least. Like with Mistborn. And that effect perfectly fits with having more squires, which is not so subtle than whatever Wax has. They have a lot of squires which are very visible. You're really arguing with clear WoBs that confirms for once what is the resonance of Windrunners. Reverse Lashing is a power, not effect. It is mixing of two powers. Yes it's recognisable by A-bronze Yes, but the jump in power was in the form of becoming more efficient with Stormlight, not by giving them new powers and abilities. Which explains all that you described. Yes, good one, Sorry that this time the response is so short but I've been writing this for 2 hours, but everytime I start, I get distracted somewhere else. Now it's late, and I don't have the brain anymore to think.

I doubt Telsin would become permanent, as Harmony said she needed constant supply of Autonomy Investiture. But who knows (Brandon, we don't')? WoB about Telsin, but also supporting you a bit:

I understand, their strength against VIn would come not from powers but from numbers and cooperation. Fused are challenging, just not for Radiants. Fused compared to Radiants seems just weak, which is sad. They don't even have a combat skill like Heralds have, if all were fighting like them, because they all have been fighting for 5 millenias, then even with their single Surge, limited healing and no Shards, they would be fearsome enemies. To equalize, cut their numbers in favor of new Regal forms, making Fused just much rarer, but far more challenging. Vin would have a very hard time, or no chances at all, against the Fused that grows stone. Coins won't hurt him.

Elantris spoiler:

Oh, that's about becoming an Avatar, not Shard - then yes, Trellium spike certainly helped her. I don't think you can kill an avatar and take his power replacing him. Avatar is not a Shard - avatar is chosen by a Shard. Avatar lives because Shard is supplying him with Investiture. There is nothing to take, nothing was left behind Telsin, no power to take. That's a soul stuff and connction thing.

How long did that full lashing last? The question is, which we don't know, how much Stormlight is needed for full lashing, like in some units. Like 1 full broam per 1 m^2 per 1 minute or something like that. I want to know that. Until we get this, it's all speculations. Too late to think about proper questions now Ars Arcanum: Not really, they just need to wound them without being wounded themself - which is no problem for a Seer - look at Yomen vs Elend, despite having no skill in fighting, Yomen just outclassed Elend until he started to burn electrum. Full Lashing might have an Atium shadow, like Shardblades. They will know if it will be placed too close to them, and simply avoid it. Yes, as I said, that's the best way to defeat an army of melee Seers. Don't engage, throw rocks at them to force them to burn Atium. That's it. Even when standing still in place, Seer would be able to block any blow squire could do. Just no. That's not that easy. Again, Yomen vs Elend. There is no trading. Seer SEES that he will get hit back and won't commit to the attack. Yyyy, I have a favor to ask. Give me one example of a full scale battle with sizable armies that lasted only couple of minute On the other hand there are many battles that lasted for days, weeks, or months - Battle of Khotyn (1621) lasted 37 days Or faster because he wasn't able to get full and go into food coma Vin? Against so many Fused and a Thunderclust? Not much.

Incompatibility made him unable to use the Shard, as it was opposing him, lack of body made him unable to influence PR to full extent. Ruin said he won't be as strong as somebody with a body. He wasn;t connected to PR. Cool? Hard to say. Normally it won't matter, during Ascention it will matter, even to Autonomy. Trellium would mess things up with Preservation too. Investiture resist investiture. No, because Kel knows Autonomy is a threat to Scadrial and has several allies that suffered from Autonomy's hands and like to get retribution.

This didn't happen because he flared Malatium, but because he died and his soul got closer to SR. That's why. That's what Leras said. Death made it work like duralumin, it brought him closer to SR, pulled him away from PR (he lost connection to PR). Normally flaring Malatium won't grant you a vision. Just like with Atium - you need to pass that line to peer into SR, to have this "I see all stars" moment - like the WoB said.

Ehh, I'm not saying give them bows, I'm saying IF they had bows. I'm talking about multiple different scenarios at once. Good point about full lashing. But if it's done up close, Atium would show it to Seers, and they would be able to escape - this has to be done like Frustration said, from far away, closing in. But the question remains, how much Stromlight would it consume? You need more Stormlight for full lashings to last longer, but with the area which is required here, it might not be economical. Also good point - however I counter it that Seer can SEE that they're not dead and they attack back. Plus you assume Windrunners know about Elend's army seeing the future, so the same should be assumed about Elend's army knowing about powers and healing of Windrunners. They won't strike and get killed because they didn't know Windrunners can heal. If we're talking about purly and engaging melee combat (they fight with swords not waiting above) with 1h of supplies, seer will win, because they can drain Windrunner by wounding them constantly, while Windrunner can't do anything in return. Better physique won't help against future sight. Yeah, that's a huge problem But he won't need an hour to kill them all, and Koloss provides a bit investiture on their own. Moreover, Nightblood was already used on the battlefield by Shashara - Vasher should be fine somehow. Squires can do that. Atium can be "toggleable" but at that point you don't really know when to start burning it and you will die from unexpected rock lashed into you. You need to burn Atium almost constantly to use it effectively. No, Elend won't cut them if Windrunners just stay 1km above the ground. He can't reach them even with duralumin. Windrunners can stay up and throw rock and empty spheres at them, forcing them to constanlty burn their Atium. If you want melee combat, you should choose the order that CAN'T FLY and wait for the other side to run out of Atium... In melee combat Seers would win in most situations. Is Vasher with Nightblood? He wins. Without? He would have trouble fighting against a Shardblade. Koloss destroy Amaram's Army, Marsh with Atium duralumin pushes something into his crystal heart, breaking it apart. You know Amaram's army are just some dudes? They are just Thrilled to kill, controlled by Voidspren, they don't have any extra supernatural abilities? Seers win standing in the hole in the wall, negating the numerical advantage. Crystal is broken with Elend and duralumin steel push. Maybe finish reading it to see if any army is even necessary?

Together with these WoBs it makes more sense - perpendicularity is like an overpowered version of an Aon - it provides investiture. But Aon exposed to Nightblood would collapse, as Nightblood would draw more than Aon can provide in a single second. That's a probable explanation. I don't know if I like it, because there are certain things that perpendicularities can't do - like provide enough investiture to create a god metal - they aren't infinite pools of investiture. That's also why I think they don't provide more investiture per second, than Nightblood needs - what collapses them. I think the longer he is drawn, the faster he consumes investiture, he would outpace perpendicularly collapsing it. Nightblood was likely not put in a food coma in that place. He just got enough investiture that he stopped feeding on Szeth's soul. And weirdly Nightblood was able to talk clearly as himself in that moment. Which I didn't notice earlier.

What morale? They don't have that. They can feel fear, yes, but the more you kill them the more they want to kill you, as they see you as a challenge, while not understanding why something so small is so strong. They won't run, they won't stop fighting, they won't hide - you will only make them more angry. Good point, the closeness of 3 realms is what allowed Shallan to create such an army in the first place. She would likely be able to make one on a smaller scale (like she did in the Tower while fighting Re-Shephir), which should be enough to draw the attention of some Koloss. Yes, I agree, they don't have enough light to defeat 20000 Koloss. That's too much, they would run out of Stormlight. But I think even non controlled Koloss would win.

How much Atium are we talking about? The same amount that they have in HoA? Elend wins if Windrunners engage them in melee, future sight is too strong. If Windrunners just stay high in the air, they can periodically shoot rock into them and slowly wait for them to burn away their Atium. That's the only way for them to win but Windrunners need to know about Atium to do so. But then give Elend's army bows with arrows and they might score all hits on squires - in OB they don't carry shields with them to reverse lash projectails. That's interesting. Vasher can fight against Marsh (if he doesn't have Atium), Vasher would be a far better sword fighter than Marsh and he can use Awakened cloak (with wooden plank sewed into it) to catch steelpushed coins, that fight would be interesting. And Vasher alone would just rampage through Koloss with Nightblood. Every Koloss that gets too close to Vasher fighting Marsh would get Nightblooded, and Marsh would have a hard time controlling them and keeping them away, as Koloss in rage are notoriously hard to control. Kalad's Phantoms are made out of stones, I don't know if even Koloss have the strength necessary to break stone (maybe the biggest one could do that - it depends again on proper estimation of Koloss strength, so opinions might vary) - and I don't think Marsh has any way to fight against a single Phantom - he would need to duralumin pushed a big piece of metal into a phantom to break it, but he doesn't have 100 vials and a huge piece of metal with him to do so. I give this one to Vasher and his Phantoms. If Windrunners decide to stay high in the air and wait Elend down, do they still have an hour of Stormlight for just 0.5g lashing upwards? In that case Elend wins as he has all other metals to fight with, and Windrunners have no light to reverse lash his coins.

Another versus thread? Storms, I'm not ready! How big is the Koloss army? 1000? Trio wins. 10000? Difficult with limited Stormlight. 300000? They will run out of Stormlight and get overrun. Shallan would create an army of illusions like during the Battle of Thaylen Field to distract Koloss, Jasnah would soulcast ground to create obstacles for them and funnel them to Kaladin, who would kill them at the narrowest point. But Shallan's army of illusions drained a lot of Stormlight, this isn't a sustainable tactic, it would give time for Jasnah to create obstacles, walls and trenches to funnel them into a narrow space where they will slowly kill them with Shardblades, using Stormlight just to give them strength to preserve as much as it as possible. But with a big army of Koloss they would run out of Stormlight, get outflanked and overrun.

Yes, that's how you defeat someone who can heal - trap him and drain him out of his fuel. Dalinar opened Perpendicularity for a short time, because of the broken bank, there were a lot of gems scattered around, which were slowly drained by all Radiants fighting there. Even perpendicularity has its limit of how much investiture can it provide in a single second - Nightblood would be able to collapse perpendicularity, because he draws more investiture than perpendicularity provides.

You can't just go faster than light, physics prohibits this - you would need infinite energy just to reach the speed of light. In Cosmere this will be possible, but with different methods than conservation of momentum - relativistic effects would prevent you from reaching the speed of light with just conservation of momentum. Unlikely, relativity would just make him go 99.999%, and if he cut his weight after it even more, he would go 99.9999999% of the speed of light. Time slows down the closer you are to the speed of light, which makes you accelerate slower. Not exactly that, but Allomantic FTL involves bendally, WoBs below. The speed of light is a physical limit, maximum that there is. You can't exceed it. Likely to do that just with conservation of momentum, you would need to decrease your weight to literally 0, which isn't possible with F-iron. With speeds close to the speed of light, time dilation changes how speed and time behaves. Momentum is p=mv velocity is v=d/t. But close to the speed of light your v stops being d/t and starts being something weird that includes the speed of light as a limit, which prevents you from going faster than that. This is the equation for relativistic momentum: When your speed v exceeds the speed of light c, the denominator of this equation becomes a square root of a negative number - which is impossible to solve in classical math. In fact, your v can't be c because then you would be dividing by 0, which is also not possible in math. Simply said, math prevents conservation of momentum to work in the way you propose. You like conservation of momentum too much, but it doesn't work alone, there are whole bunch of rules and laws that work together with conservation of momentum and you can't just ignore them. Allomantic FLT is confirmed by Brandon, it works with bendalloy and cadmium (I'm almost certain that Allomantic FTL will work like Alcubierre Drive, instead of physically moving faster than the speed of light, you move spacetime around you faster than the speed of light, which physics allows), but that's not the whole thing. There is more to it which we don't know. In this WoB Brandon is saying that he isn't breaking causality with his FTL - that disproves your idea of F-iron use. F-iron alone won't break causality and the speed of light.

No, Kel experienced that without duralumin, he flared Malatrium when he died. Leras later told him that because of that, because he flared Malatium in the moment of transition, he was able to see a glimpse of SR. That's why I think Malatium with duralumin would normally give the same effect, likewise gold and duralumin (or in this case nicrosil).