Elenion

For the record, I did not see Aman's edit before I posted. I didn't think that there was any confusion about that, but I guess there was. I agree with you up until you say that Pryo is suspicious for being very interested in figuring out who got Pendanted. That's not unexpected: I was very interested myself. The write-up basically said an elim was caught but we didn't know who for certain. Aman made it clear that he was targeting Araris if he could, now doubly confirmed by you (@TheYoungPyromancer can you triple-confirm?). Jeskeri!Pyro would have known that Araris was compromised based on Aman's edit and the Jeskeri not killing him, so he would have had no need to be so interested because he would have known that Aman really did attack Araris. While I'm a bit suspicious of Lopen for the sudden change of tone, I'm actually reading Pyro as very slightly village from this cycle's events.

Hold on, @TheMightyLopen why would Araris being an elim make me a suspect? I can't read him and other players suggested he was acting odd and I agreed, so I suggested to Aman to kill him. If anything that should make me a bit trusted, because my read was right and I helped catch an elim. (All contingent on Aman actually targeting Araris last night.) Someone gave me a Derethi Pendant and it didn't show up, so that answers that.

If Araris ends up being evil and I suspected him, that might be the first time I'm right about his alignment: I can't remember helping lynch elim!Araris before. We don't even know if he was the one targeted, or at least not yet, but I'm going to put my vote down on him until we hear more. Also, I am informing the thread that someone (apparently with a sense of humor) passed their Derethi Pendant to me last night, so right now I am a convert. I'm planning on holding onto it until we get a claimed Convert whom we can use it on. (No offense, but I trust my own alignment more than I trust any of yours, savvy? )

Araris. Eternum I can read, Joe somewhat, Araris never.

*facepalms* Aman, I told you in the doc not to out me!

*raises hand* *realizes it'll make me a target* *lowers hand* I value my life, thanks.

I don't have much to contribute that others haven't already said. Please, keep in-thread claims to a minimum: in addition to telling the Jeskeri who is what, it also narrows the field of possibilities for power roles that they'll want to kill. As for the vote switch at the end of last cycle, I find that the first 1-2 votes in a major switch like that are usually village. Elims don't want the attention that comes from leading something like that. @Arinian English is a ridiculous language to learn as a second language--taking Spanish in high school was hard enough for me--and you're coming through very clear. Jindo warrior(s), protecting Aman would be a good thing to do unless you have a very strong reason not to. Keeping 2 of our scans in play is not critical but it would be very advantageous if we could, and we don't lose anything if he's protected but not attacked.

Right now you're a walking protection magnet. I wouldn't be surprised if you've got another cycle or two left in you, or more.

Aman's plan sounds good. Now off to class with me.

Oh...kay? I went into work when there were like 3 votes on Bort, and when I come back there's been a bandwagon and a counter-bandwagon and Rand has bit the dust C1 yet again, and yet again he's village. Ouch. Anyway, if the Pendanted player would claim, that would be great, assuming that it was a Derethi Pendant used, since there's no action window for Jeskeri Pendants during the Day. @Herowannabe The lynch shows Randuir dying, but the RP is of a mob lynching Aman. Is that intentional?

@Bort This was the post in which you voted on Joe You don't specify why you vote on Joe out of all of your suspects, and before you vote on Joe you say that you think one of those 5 is an elim. You might be right, because standard elim team size is about 20% of total, but I don't think that that field of 5 is any more likely to contain a Jeskeri than, say, the last 5 players that posted in-thread. That's why I put my vote on you.

When I made my first post on D1, I talked about Jeskeri and Derethi Pendants about equally, and proposed a plan for dealing with both. Then I went to sleep and discussion around Jeskeri pendants basically died out, but Derethi Pendants were still being debated about, so I joined that discussion. That led to Drake realizing that some Derethi might not claim, which necessitated more discussion. Here I even tried to restart discussion about the Jeskeri, but that didn't go anywhere either. It's not that I've been exclusively focused on the Derethi; there are just more things about them to discuss, because the Jeskeri are similar to the generic elim faction that we face every game in a row.

My vote on Bort is because he went after players so strongly for their joking. Kidpen's is probably for similar reasons. I don't think the current vote state is suspicious because no actions could have been sent yet, so there's no way for anyone to know anyone else's alignments other than being on their team, and you wouldn't attempt to lynch your teammate. (Although admittedly, distancing votes are a thing.)

@Mraize Could you provide some reasoning for your vote on me, other than that you don't want to get in the middle of the feud? I defended Mraize: so what? I don't think I was being very deceptive about taking the heat off of him. I'm reading him neutral, with the doc joking being non-alignment-indicative (NAI), so I voted on Bort for going after something NAI so strongly. Edit: I defended Kidpen, not Mraize. *facepalm*

I want to get a vote down, so I'm going to put mine on Bort. I don't think any of this joking about the doc is suspicious, especially since most of it was just playing follow-the-leader. Maybe the first person to bring it up might be a bit more suspicious, but after that it looked to be people looking for some lighthearted humor. (Although if he is right, I'm going to look really bad for this.)

I'm glad that you're reading me as non-Gyorn. For the record, I was thinking that maybe Pendant-holders could use Pendants on those that were going to be lynched by an insurmountable amount (*cough* bandwagons *cough*). That way the Pendant's conversion wouldn't take effect, because the target would die, but the canceled votes might tell who the Gyorn is. While this is still a viable strategy to determine how many Converts were in the bandwagon, it can't scan for the Gyorn, so there's no incentive to have people use the Pendants early to attempt to catch the Gyorn voting. I didn't tell anyone that I'd asked the question until I got the negative answer, because if the answer had been yes then I would only have told people who PMed me to reduce the chance of the Gyorn learning that anyone with a Pendant could scan for them. I'll start off Jeskeri discussion: by talking about their win con to kill all other players. Normally a game ends at parity, because the elims have control of the lynch. Even though the Jeskeri have to kill all players, they still will control the lynch at parity, and the only thing I can think of that would stop them would be the Derethi winning first. End result: we can't plan on the Jeskeri win condition giving us a couple extra cycles. We need to take them out before they get parity. One advantage we do have, though, is that the Jeskeri are likely afraid of the Derethi, especially because of the chance of getting a double-agent Odiv in their doc, and the Gyorn is almost certainly afraid of the Jeskeri kill. *Realizes that I've only quoted Drake* Ah well, he brought up the best points. Can't argue with that.

Misread on my part. Reading it again it makes a lot more sense, lol. For some reason I thought you were advocating that each person with a Pendant uses it on a player that they think is village, and then attempts to keep that player alive. However, I still don't quite follow you when you say Using the Pendant is a day action, and it only cancels votes made that Day, so how would you have a situation in which Player 1 uses it on Player 2, Player 2 gets up for lynch, and Player 1 wants to alert people that they are Pendanting Player 2? Player 1 shouldn't just say "hey, I'm Pendanting Player 2, so don't waste the lynch"--they should either cancel their action or make their case about why Player 2 should be trusted. Humor edit: I drafted up a response post in the doc, if you want to use that.

Interesting. So basically, if a player was Derethi and claimed not to be, then that would tell the Gyorn that they're looking for a position as the Odiv. If they don't get it first opportunity, they aren't likely to get it later, so they claim and help the village by soaking up Pendants. Hmmm... The deciding factor on whether or not a given Convert uses this strategy is whether or not a given Convert thinks that the Gyorn is likely to win or not, because if they become the Odiv then they can no longer win with their original team. If they think they have a better chance where they are currently, they will claim and likely not be the Odiv. If they'd rather be the Odiv, they choose not to claim. All of the Converts claiming would be great right now, but if we can get even one to claim then we can expend the Pendants, and hopefully at least one Convert doesn't adopt your strategy.

One of the quotes from the epigraphs from the Urithiru gemstones mentions that the plan to capture Ba-Ado-Mishram required Melishi, the only Bondsmith alive at that time. If the Radiants figured out that he could do it, you'd think that they would have tested to see if other orders could do it.

In addition to Hero's clarification here in-thread, I asked one in my GM PM last night: the Gyorn's vote is not canceled by the Derethi Pendant. So not only are they not a Convert, they don't behave anything like a Convert (well, and we can't scan for them using the Pendants). I'm not following you here. If the Derethi Converts aren't going to claim, then how are we going to know that they've been converted? And why would we want to help the convert survive? Converts can be Jeskeri just as much as they can be village, so lynching someone who had been Pendanted would be just like lynching them normally, except it pushes the Gyorn's win condition back a little bit. I think that the Derethi Converts claiming is a good idea, so I'll go ahead and inform everyone that I am not currently a convert and I will inform everyone if I do become one.

Whoa, the start caught me by surprise. Right now I'm tired from leading a busy shift at work, but I want to throw a few thoughts out there so that there's more time to talk about them. 1. What disadvantage would the Derethi Converts have to claiming? The Gyorn already knows who they are, and the Converts claiming would limit the Gyorn's choice of Odiv because back when they were non-Derethi they revealed themselves to the thread. We would also gain the added benefit of being able to get rid of Derethi Pendants without creating converts. 2. I was just about to say that we should keep our eye out for which players can't post because they're Elantrians, but I just noticed that the GMs told us, so that plan is out. 3. I think we need to be concerned about the Jeskeri Pendants. They can throw off our alignment scanners and can kill innocents. While they could be useful as a vig-kill against the Gyorn or to out a Jeskeri, I'm not necessarily sure if the reward would be worth the risk. Something I've thought of, but I'm not sure if I support, is that we could use the Pendants to kill inactives. We'd be disarming ourselves of vig-kills, but we'd make the Priests more certain of their scans and reduce the chance of friendly fire killing a power role. I want to hear some thoughts on this plan: who's for it and who's against it?

Once per cycle?

@Elandera I would suggest playing the QF first if you have concerns. It's a shorter format with fewer players (most likely) and rules more similar to standard Mafia than this game's. There's nothing stopping you from signing up for this game, but I know that when I started SE I was glad that my first game wasn't this complex. However, there have been players who have started in LGs and ended up doing just fine without too much stress. It just depends on the player.

@A Joe in the Bush Does the Spouse prevent a player from speaking in the GM PM, effectively roleblocking them because they can't put in orders?

*signs up* Why do I do this to myself? TK421 here, at my post.