Long Game 74: You Want It Darker

[STINK]

11 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Do you have thoughts on any of the Striker / Books stuff? 

D1 policy of I don't know what's going on nor do I really care sorry to say buddy

But if you know any good easy meals to cook that'd be helpful

[Mailliw73]

56 minutes ago, Elandera said:

Mm. Yes. That's copper. Mostly. It left the familiar tangy metal taste on my tongue. Only copper did that. Maybe steel, too. But this is definitely copper.

That's what that cranky mistie wanted, right? Should be. He was not happy with me. Impatient.

He'd get the copper and zinc. Brass, is what they call it.

Like they call me mad.

Good. This mistie will get what he wants. 

Hey, Elandera, I know you're busy, but I'm curious if you've got a bit more to share. I love your analysis, so I'd love to see anything you've got. 

I guess, as I type that, I realize that i haven't posted any analysis yet really either, but that's me. PM me if I haven't already PMd you and we can talk more about my thoughts. 

Regarding Tani, I really don't think it's that big of a deal... They're new to SE, of course they don't know the meta here about D1 lynches or about voting. I think they deserve some time to figure out what's going on and if they have a more chaotic playstyle, well, the more the merrier! None of what they've said has set off any alarms for me. 

Illwei, I think I've learned via PMs that your style is just more chaotic than I expected, which is why that vote-retract-vote was weird to me. So now that my expectations are adjusted, I don't think that is worth exeing you for, since I guess it's just kinda your style. I am going to leave my vote as is for now though because between Quinn and Illwei, I'm not opposed to one of them being the exe target and I think Quinn's gotten that a bunch recently from what I hear. 

I'm also down for a more Contribution Crusade type of vote too if there's a good target for that who isn't new or returning. 

[Flyingbooks]

I never said that elims would never make posts with bad reasoning at all, just that I didn't think that they'd make posts with lots of clear fallacies and mistakes, especially at the very beginning of the game, because that'd draw lots of negative attention towards them. 

[Quintessential]

3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

How can you justify voting on any of the above players after posting this? There are several players who have posted, and are thus participating in the game, but who haven't said enough to draw attention to themselves. Reading and Danex come to mind, and there might be some others I'm thinking of. We can't justifiably complain about the state of the meta and then go take actions that reinforce the status quo. There is a difference between going full-blown Contribution Crusade and strategically keeping our more vocal players alive so that they can contribute analysis later in the game. 

Because the alternative would be for me to not vote at all. I'm not the best at reads in the first place, and usually only trust my reads on people who (seem to me to) have a lot going for them one way or another. Unfortunately, on D1 that category is literally only active players, plus anyone who may have said something sus that got them drawn into the limelight of a major discussion--and honestly I try to stay away from those if I can because they usually end up being vil. I'm not up for a full-blown Contribution Crusade either, and I can't justify to myself voting on someone who hasn't actually done something sus, so I'm kind of stuck here. I'm not going to not vote because A. that gives less for other villagers to read me off of, B. that gives up my voice in the proceedings to others, including the elims, C. I'm one of the people who's always saying more people should vote, and D. that seems to me like just another form of creating a less active playstyle intentionally, which somehow I don't think is going to solve the problem of active people being killed off.

Basically, I don't know how else to play. I know that more active players die early more frequently, but we can't just say we're all immune to the exe for the first three cycles or whatever because we have just as much of a chance as anyone else of rolling elim, and it'd be unfair to the village to make that decree.

4 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

I am going to leave my vote as is for now though because between Quinn and Illwei, I'm not opposed to one of them being the exe target and I think Quinn's gotten that a bunch recently from what I hear. 

No, you should switch it if you don't want to vote Illwei anymore. Illwei and I both die early, and actually she generally dies before I do. Also I survived last game, so in relatively recent history I haven't actually died very early at all : P

4 minutes ago, Flyingbooks said:

I never said that elims would never make posts with bad reasoning at all, just that I didn't think that they'd make posts with lots of clear fallacies and mistakes, especially at the very beginning of the game, because that'd draw lots of negative attention towards them. 

My point was that nobody intentionally makes posts with clear fallacies and mistakes, except occasionally elims later on if they feel they don't have a choice for some reason. Whatever others may have seen in Striker's post, Striker himself almost certainly thought it made perfect sense, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it in the first place. Basically, the existence of logical fallacies in a post isn't (usually) AI.

[Flyingbooks]

1 minute ago, Quintessential said:

My point was that nobody intentionally makes posts with clear fallacies and mistakes, except occasionally elims later on if they feel they don't have a choice for some reason. Whatever others may have seen in Striker's post, Striker himself almost certainly thought it made perfect sense, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it in the first place. Basically, the existence of logical fallacies in a post isn't (usually) AI.

Though elims are typically more careful about what they say.

[Quintessential]

Just now, Flyingbooks said:

Though elims are typically more careful about what they say.

Which is true, but not what your original post seemed to be arguing. Like I said to Illwei a few wallposts up, my disagreement with what you said was more a disagreement with wording than with your conclusions.

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

Hello, I have finally arrived!

The only thing I have to say right now is that I am a Village Smoker. I am turning my Coppercloud off. Seekers, feel free to scan me!

Edited February 27, 2021 by Ventyl
grammar

[Quintessential]

2 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Hello, I have finally arrived!

The only thing I have to say right now is that I am a Village Smoker. I am turning my Coppercloud off. Seekers, feel free to scan me!

...okay two reactions to this: first of all WHY WHY WHY would you claim???

And second of all, note that they won't be able to successfully scan you until... I believe next cycle? Yeah, next cycle. Right? Because you can only turn off your copper as a Night action.

[Stick.]

2 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Hello, I have finally arrived!

The only thing I have to say right now is that I am a Village Smoker. I am turning my Coppercloud off. Seekers, feel free to scan me!

I...wonder if this was the wisest choice

I'm gonna turn in for the day - will cast a vote tomorrow with hopefully a list of reads as well

[Fifth Scholar]

Y'all are literally posting faster than I can multiquote >> What is modern SE? cries in obsolete playstyle

[Araris Valerian]

12 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

I can't justify to myself voting on someone who hasn't actually done something sus

I personally take the view that everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Like, not doing things (sus or not) is suspicious in and of itself. In the current meta, it would be extremely easy for the elim team to lie low and let all the active players kill each other off. That hasn't really happened in recent games because our elims like to stick to their usual activity levels, but it is a real danger. I'm voting for Reading, not because they have done something suspicious, but because they haven't done anything village (and because we need a D1 grinch).

12 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

but we can't just say we're all immune to the exe for the first three cycles or whatever because we have just as much of a chance as anyone else of rolling elim, and it'd be unfair to the village to make that decree.

We actually sort of could say this. I'm not saying that we should, but as active, voting players, we get to dictate who dies. Yeah, some of the less active players may jump on the wagons toward cycle end, but we are really the ones choosing who dies. And if there is a legitimate point to be made that low-actives are inherently suspicous (and I believe there is), then we can vote for them while honestly doing our best to help the village win. 

[Mailliw73]

Just now, Quintessential said:

...okay two reactions to this: first of all WHY WHY WHY would you claim???

And second of all, note that they won't be able to successfully scan you until... I believe next cycle? Yeah, next cycle. Right? Because you can only turn off your copper as a Night action.

Why not, I guess? Smoker isn’t a detrimental one to claim, even if he’s honest. If anything, it’s only advantageous if he’s an elim but even then he just committed to turning it off. I don’t think that’s a bad move at all. 

and about my vote on Illwei, I don’t have a better idea right now. The tension between Quinn and Illwei is interesting (maybe something normal, idk?) and I think there might be something there. I just meant that her voting pattern alone is no longer the sole reason my vote is there. I think the voting she’s doing is more inline with her chaotic nature but the arguments with Quinn haven’t been so there’s a disconnect there that I’m interested in. 

[Experience]

Just now, Mailliw73 said:

Why not, I guess? Smoker isn’t a detrimental one to claim, even if he’s honest. If anything, it’s only advantageous if he’s an elim but even then he just committed to turning it off. I don’t think that’s a bad move at all. 

and about my vote on Illwei, I don’t have a better idea right now. The tension between Quinn and Illwei is interesting (maybe something normal, idk?) and I think there might be something there. I just meant that her voting pattern alone is no longer the sole reason my vote is there. I think the voting she’s doing is more inline with her chaotic nature but the arguments with Quinn haven’t been so there’s a disconnect there that I’m interested in. 

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the elims choose to smoke him now...

[Quintessential]

1 minute ago, Mailliw73 said:

Why not, I guess? Smoker isn’t a detrimental one to claim, even if he’s honest. If anything, it’s only advantageous if he’s an elim but even then he just committed to turning it off. I don’t think that’s a bad move at all. 

Well, assuming Ventyl's not an elim, the elims now know who to kill to keep their vote-manipper(s) and or scans from being blocked (I'm just going to assume that Ventyl is telling the truth, in which case it would make sense for the elims to have vote-manip or scans).

1 minute ago, Experience said:

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the elims choose to smoke him now...

Or they could do that XD

[Mailliw73]

1 minute ago, Experience said:

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the elims choose to smoke him now...

Fair but that’s no worse than him smoking himself. 

And if the elims are banking that hard in their vote manip, they’re probably wrecked already. 

[Quintessential]

1 minute ago, Mailliw73 said:

And if the elims are banking that hard in their vote manip, they’re probably wrecked already. 

Well, it's also just that the N1 NK is, in my experience, almost as much of a shot in the dark as the D1 exe, so anything that paints a target on someone's back in particular helps the elims because they know who to shoot at--or, rather, stab brutally with a spike?

[Mailliw73]

Just now, Quintessential said:

Well, it's also just that the N1 NK is, in my experience, almost as much of a shot in the dark as the D1 exe, so anything that paints a target on someone's back in particular helps the elims because they know who to shoot at--or, rather, stab brutally with a spike?

I guess. It also gives us more info, which I think is the whole goal of D1. 

[Quintessential]

7 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

I guess. It also gives us more info, which I think is the whole goal of D1. 

Well, but not really though. Because if the elims do decide to kill Ventyl due to that claim, which they very well might unless they're scared of Lurchers--which I guess is a point, I do try to avoid obvious targets as elim and I for one would gladly NK a confirmed vanilla over a player who might have a role--anyway, if they do decide to kill Ventyl then we get no information on them from the NK, whereas we might have if they hadn't been given such a specific reason to target someone in particular

Edit: though who am I kidding, from what I've heard in the few PMs I do have, claims are already flowing readily halfway through D1. I can't imagine at least some of them haven't made it to the elims : P so I s'pose it may not matter that much that Ventyl claimed.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Quintessential

[Quivil]

51 minutes ago, Experience said:

 

This seems off... but it is your first game i think soooo. I dunno.

Also. I'm not so sure on quinn now. She's starting to inch closer to the null read line for me.

In most of the Mafia games I play we don't lynch for most of the nights. We get info based on what does or does not happen.

[Quintessential]

Just now, Tani said:

In most of the Mafia games I play we don't lynch for most of the nights. We get info based on what does or does not happen.

You play other mafia games? Which ones?

[Mat]

1 minute ago, Tani said:

In most of the Mafia games I play we don't lynch for most of the nights. We get info based on what does or does not happen.

There’s no exe at night, but there are kills and we get info from those. We also can still talk in the thread.

[StrikerEZ]

35 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

My point was that nobody intentionally makes posts with clear fallacies and mistakes, except occasionally elims later on if they feel they don't have a choice for some reason. Whatever others may have seen in Striker's post, Striker himself almost certainly thought it made perfect sense, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it in the first place. Basically, the existence of logical fallacies in a post isn't (usually) AI.

This is basically what I was thinking. I didn’t even think anything of what I was saying was wrong. Which is partially because I was writing it all up in about 10-15 minutes while in a rush.

25 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Hello, I have finally arrived!

The only thing I have to say right now is that I am a Village Smoker. I am turning my Coppercloud off. Seekers, feel free to scan me!

....you know, I’m not even surprised. This feels like something you’d do, regardless of alignment.

 

[Quintessential]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

....you know, I’m not even surprised. This feels like something you’d do, regardless of alignment.

Come to think of it that's true XD

[Quivil]

7 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

You play other mafia games? Which ones?

Avalon, Mafia where everyone has acting roles, One Night Werewolf.

[Ashbringer]

Yeah, Ventyl has... done this before  I don't think claiming is AI for him. LG66, LG67, the AG... good deal more. And an outed Smoker is probably the least worrisome of the roles in terms of forcing Lurchers and Seekers and the like to bend around it if publicized.

59 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Oof, hope you get better from whatever happened. I will note briefly that votes getting thrown around is what I'd consider normal, healthy D1 behaviour, since the only people with any real clue of what's going on are the elims, so I tend to be fine with people that drop early votes and switch them around a lot  

53 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

I think he got his wisdom teeth removed? Mentioned it in sign-ups or something. 

Yup, no more wisdom teeth anymore. Everything went fine, just a swollen / sore jaw. And the fact I got nothing done yesterday, which is really not that unusual for Fridays...

I just... every time I roll Elim there seems to be some reason why I end up really busy and go inactiveish for all or part of it? Last MR was kind of an extreme case, but it does seem every time there is something that happens... I don't know if it's just Elim!me hates being quippish or just a weird coincidence, but I kinda wanted that out before I got my alignment.

Of course, I am a Villager this time around, but I would personally take that with a grain of salt 

 

I'll go through the thread today and see if I spot anything.