Long Game 53: The Fate of the Forum

[Sapphire Elephant]

Just now, Furamirionind said:

If you were going to claim, why make me go through... Oh, you wanted proof didn't you... I feel manipulated.   : |

I didn't know that I would be able to do this. I took advantage of the Vadiyehi role showing up, and acquired it. Otherwise, you and Ada would be the only ones who knew my identity right now. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

I still don't understand why Rath scanning Devotary (while protected by Vodiyehi) turned up Eliminator instead of "Your action failed."

Edited March 27, 2019 by Adavantos
Come on Mike, you're a writer! How do you still mix up you're and your?

[Sapphire Elephant]

Also, I swear if anyone figured out my identity before I revealed it to them, I'm going to be seriously annoyed. I went to extreme lengths to make sure Sapphire and Steel were not associated. Different voting, different times being on, the extreme emotion in Steeldancer to make it different from the flat, but sometimes trolly voice of Elephant. Elephant was like me distilled into pure villager mode, while Steeldancer was just... me. It was a lot of work, and I hope you guys appreciate it. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, Sapphire Elephant said:

Also, I swear if anyone figured out my identity before I revealed it to them, I'm going to be seriously annoyed. I went to extreme lengths to make sure Sapphire and Steel were not associated. Different voting, different times being on, the extreme emotion in Steeldancer to make it different from the flat, but sometimes trolly voice of Elephant. Elephant was like me distilled into pure villager mode, while Steeldancer was just... me. It was a lot of work, and I hope you guys appreciate it. 

I always appreciate everything you do, Steel 

[Elandera she/her]

8 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

I still don't understand why Rath scanning Devotary (while protected by Vodiyehi) turned up Eliminator instead of "Your action failed."

 I dunno. My best guess at the moment is if Rath was targetted by SookeSiled that night, which triggered Seventh Saint's ability at that time, which I believe he said was a role that would obfuscate scans.

EDIT:

And Steel, I had no idea. I admittedly didn't try hard to figure it out, but I definitely woudn't have thought it was you.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Elandera

[Sapphire Elephant]

6 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

I always appreciate everything you do, Steel 

I wouldn't have minded it lasting longer, tbh. It was kind of fun making fun of myself and generally just expressing two different personas. If I had pulled it off an entire game and had no one notice, I would have felt transcendent. But hey, I'd be kind of dense to miss the opportunity to make myself immune to all player actions! And that means we now have 2 hard confirmed villagers that WILL stick around. I don't think the conversion should work either (If they haven't already used it), because the rules specify it only cannot be blocked by a eliminator action, not a spammer action. 
And no, I wasn't converted by picking up the spammer role. Kidpen should hopefully be able to confirm that, but I asked Joe about that way in advance. 
So yeah, I'll probably be using these accounts pretty interchangeably depending on what device I'm on. Uh, and please send all those upvotes you keep giving elephant to my real account, tyvm. I appreciate the upvotes on this account (it's gone up a ton of reputation levels lol) but I can't enjoy them like I can on my real account so  just pass them over there, thank you. 
edit: Really? Do you just hate me? 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Sapphire Elephant
edits

[Steeldancer he/him]

This also means I can double post with impunity. UNLIMITED POWER MWHAHAHA

[Sapphire Elephant]

Ugh stop upvoting Elephant you cruel people. They are meaningless there. OH COME ON YOU KEEP UPVOTING ME. Ok, and real talk, are there 2 Gaeaxx? There's an XXGaea and a GaeaXX and my brain is slightly broken. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 minutes ago, Elandera said:

 I dunno. My best guess at the moment is if Rath was targetted by SookeSiled that night, which triggered Seventh Saint's ability at that time, which I believe he said was a role that would obfuscate scans.

My problem with this is, well... why would SookeSiled choose Rath, of all players, on the very night he's about to scan Devotary?

Quote

• Vodiyehi: Target a player during either Turn. All other actions targeting that player fail.
• SookeSiled: Target a player during either Turn. Any player who did not take an action that turn targets that play with all applicable actions.

I'm wondering... am I misunderstanding how these abilities work? Maybe this is what happened.

1. Vodiyehi targets self, rendering all actions used on them inert
2. SookeSiled targets Vodiyehi, redirecting all unused actions onto Vodiyehi
3. Fifth targets Vodiyehi, thanks to SookeSiled's redirect
4. Devotary targets Vodiyehi, only for Fifth's ability to interfere before either can be nullified

@xxGaea @GaeaXX is this order of actions feasible? Or can you not share.

[Furamirionind]

26 minutes ago, Sapphire Elephant said:

Also, I swear if anyone figured out my identity before I revealed it to them, I'm going to be seriously annoyed. I went to extreme lengths to make sure Sapphire and Steel were not associated. Different voting, different times being on, the extreme emotion in Steeldancer to make it different from the flat, but sometimes trolly voice of Elephant. Elephant was like me distilled into pure villager mode, while Steeldancer was just... me. It was a lot of work, and I hope you guys appreciate it. 

I wasn't even close to figuring you out. : )

@NotASteelClone, this is relative to the first PM I sent you.  First number is the paragraph, second number is how many letters into the paragraph the intended letter is:

6-21 5-2 6-4 1-2 3-2 2-3 2-8 1-6: 2-3 3-2 2-3 4-4 2-5 4-1 4-2. 1-4 1-2 1-6, 2-22 4-4 2-3 1-3 1-2 7-17, 2-1, 3-44 3-1 1-5 1-2, 3-1 3-2, 3-1 7-17, 2-4 1-1 3-1, 3-44 3-1 1-5 1-2 4-1, 3-1 3-2 2-8 1-2.     3-1 3-2 3-3, 2-22 4-4 2-3 1-3 1-2 7-17/cycle.

Hopefully that makes sense, assuming you care to decode it... I made it probably a bit more difficult than I had to... =)

Edit: Hopefully no one asks why I sent a PM with 7 paragraphs... : )

Edited March 27, 2019 by Furamirionind

[xxGaea]

11 minutes ago, Sapphire Elephant said:

Ugh stop upvoting Elephant you cruel people. They are meaningless there. OH COME ON YOU KEEP UPVOTING ME. Ok, and real talk, are there 2 Gaeaxx? There's an XXGaea and a GaeaXX and my brain is slightly broken. 

It's Joe being a dork. =p there is only one of me. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

13 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I wasn't even close to figuring you out. : )

@NotASteelClone, this is relative to the first PM I sent you.  First number is the paragraph, second number is how many letters into the paragraph the intended letter is:

6-21 5-2 6-4 1-2 3-2 2-3 2-8 1-6: 2-3 3-2 2-3 4-4 2-5 4-1 4-2. 1-4 1-2 1-6, 2-22 4-4 2-3 1-3 1-2 7-17, 2-1, 3-44 3-1 1-5 1-2, 3-1 3-2, 3-1 7-17, 2-4 1-1 3-1, 3-44 3-1 1-5 1-2 4-1, 3-1 3-2 2-8 1-2.     3-1 3-2 3-3, 2-22 4-4 2-3 1-3 1-2 7-17/cycle.

Hopefully that makes sense, assuming you care to decode it... I made it probably a bit more difficult than I had to... =)

It is 2 in the morning and I’m watching infinity war... so I’ll do that in the morning. 

11 upvotes on Elephant? Y’all rude. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by NotASteelClone

[Furamirionind]

@Cadmium Compounder, same code as with Steeldancer. First number is paragraph, second number is number of characters in.

4-4 6-2 5-4 2-2: 2-5 7-6 2-55-4 3-4 6-1 4-1 ---- 6-1 2-2 4-3, 7-5 5-4 5-4 1-1 1-5 7-6 3-2 2-2 7-6 1-2, 1-6 1-51, 1-6 7-6 2-2, 2-1 5-4 2-5 1-15 2-2 2-3, 1-1, 6-68 1-6 4-1 2-2, 1-6 7-6, 1-6 2-3, 5-1 3-1 1-6, 6-68 1-6 1-2 2-2 1-4, 6-2 7-6, 3-2 2-2.

I really need to stop sending PMs with 7 paragraphs... Well, at least it gives me more letters/data to make codes with Lol.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Furamirionind

[Sapphire Elephant]

1 hour ago, Furamirionind said:

I wasn't even close to figuring you out. : )

@NotASteelClone, this is relative to the first PM I sent you.  First number is the paragraph, second number is how many letters into the paragraph the intended letter is:

6-21 5-2 6-4 1-2 3-2 2-3 2-8 1-6: 2-3 3-2 2-3 4-4 2-5 4-1 4-2. 1-4 1-2 1-6, 2-22 4-4 2-3 1-3 1-2 7-17, 2-1, 3-44 3-1 1-5 1-2, 3-1 3-2, 3-1 7-17, 2-4 1-1 3-1, 3-44 3-1 1-5 1-2 4-1, 3-1 3-2 2-8 1-2.     3-1 3-2 3-3, 2-22 4-4 2-3 1-3 1-2 7-17/cycle.

Hopefully that makes sense, assuming you care to decode it... I made it probably a bit more difficult than I had to... =)

Edit: Hopefully no one asks why I sent a PM with 7 paragraphs... : )

message received. Makes sense. Also, I hate decoding things. 

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

1 hour ago, Elandera said:

 I dunno. My best guess at the moment is if Rath was targetted by SookeSiled that night, which triggered Seventh Saint's ability at that time, which I believe he said was a role that would obfuscate scans.

EDIT:

And Steel, I had no idea. I admittedly didn't try hard to figure it out, but I definitely woudn't have thought it was you.

My role was Aiel-blooded at the time, so no scan obfuscation for me. Unless a villager wants to come forward and explain a role that messed up the “scan,” I really, really don’t trust the scan or the scanner to actually be real. As such, Rathmaskal until we can prove that the scan isn’t just a lie. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

1 minute ago, Seventh Saint said:

My role was Aiel-blooded at the time, so no scan obfuscation for me. Unless a villager wants to come forward and explain a role that messed up the “scan,” I really, really don’t trust the scan or the scanner to actually be real. As such, Rathmaskal until we can prove that the scan isn’t just a lie. 

Well...

Drought said he knew a role or two that could have caused this result to come back (how he knows, exactly, I'm questioning). @May I suggest The Only Joe can you tell us more?

Until I get an explanation on this and Rath not using his kill, I'll be joining the vote on Rathmaskal.

• (2) |247|-|: Seventh Saint, Adavantos,

[Elandera she/her]

28 minutes ago, Seventh Saint said:

My role was Aiel-blooded at the time, so no scan obfuscation for me. Unless a villager wants to come forward and explain a role that messed up the “scan,” I really, really don’t trust the scan or the scanner to actually be real. As such, Rathmaskal until we can prove that the scan isn’t just a lie. 

My apologies. I misremembered your claim.

21 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

Drought said he knew a role or two that could have caused this result to come back (how he knows, exactly, I'm questioning). @May I suggest The Only Joe can you tell us more?

I'm also interested, just in case my own scan was messed with.

However, the results did confirm this role claim as well as showing me a village alignment. 

@Mailliw772, can you confirm if you've targeted Rath?

Also, I've been thinking about Temptation. Ada, you suggested Road wasn't active enough to have submitted an action, but I'm not sure that's the case. We know they were lurking during the day turn. And I've seen plenty of people in past games submit actions even when they don't talk. I still think it's well within the plausible range.

[Amanuensis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Elandera said:

My apologies. I misremembered your claim.

I'm also interested, just in case my own scan was messed with.

However, the results did confirm this role claim as well as showing me a village alignment. 

@Mailliw772, can you confirm if you've targeted Rath?

Also, I've been thinking about Temptation. Ada, you suggested Road wasn't active enough to have submitted an action, but I'm not sure that's the case. We know they were lurking during the day turn. And I've seen plenty of people in past games submit actions even when they don't talk. I still think it's well within the plausible range.

I completely forgot you said you scanned Rath. But why would Mailliw have targeted him?

[Elandera she/her]

1 minute ago, Adavantos said:

I completely forgot you said you scanned Rath. But why would Mailliw have targeted him?

It was one of the roles that returned in the scan. I was the first targeted by Mailliw, so I was just making sure she'd targeted Rath as well. 

[Amanuensis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Elandera said:

It was one of the roles that returned in the scan. I was the first targeted by Mailliw, so I was just making sure she'd targeted Rath as well. 

Really? So you know for a fact she's not lying about being neutral?

EDIT: Just read this again. Was so hung up on the Rath scan I didn't notice you said she converted you too. Hm. Unless Elan, Rath and Lum are all Spammers... dang it. Rathmaskal

• (1) Rathmaskal: Seventh Saint, 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Adavantos

[Elandera she/her]

5 minutes ago, Adavantos said:

Really? So you know for a fact she's not lying about being neutral?

It's... complicated. The role definitely originates from a villager, but can work on spammers. It doesn't change alignment. Mailliw is the one I told Tiny that I'd received confirmation on the beginning of D2. That confirmation was receiving the new limited role. When I scanned Rath, it showed the role name along with the one he'd claimed. I just wanted to make sure with Mailliw that Rath was the next target and the scan wasn't shifted at all.

[DeTess she/her]

Okay, my most recent deadline has just passed, so I should have some time for analysis. On this first round, I'll ignore the existence of a convert, as mby my reckonign no one was converted until this night at the earliest. The players currently still alive are:

1. Elandera
2. @May I suggest The Only Joe
3. xinoehp512
4. Furamirionind
5. Adavantos
6. Aranduensis
7. NotASteelClone
8. I think I am here.
9. Seventh Saint
10. Cadmium Compounder
11. Mailliw772
12. Snipexe
13. alVoidus
14. |257|-|
15. Araris Valerian
16. Kidpen
17. Sapphire Elephant
18. Walin

Of these, the following people have confirmed the presence of a village role to me: Myself, Steel, Cadcom

The following people have got 1 or more other people confirming the presence of a role, or some other slightly less direct means: Mailliw772, Ada, Fura

The following people seem to have received claims that the elims would reasonably have acted on, but didn't; ITIAH (Fura's kinda-scanner-like role-thingy)

Seventh Saint has made a claim that he held an extra life, and seriously tried to get a lynch on himself going, which seems like a very odd thing to do if he was lying, though it's not an impossible gambit.

Elandera claimed to be a second Disciple of herowannabe, and a previous comment confirms suggests that she did indeed claim that role to tiny wilson. Keeping in mind that the evil team managed to kill Jondesu N1 though, it's not impossible that hat was a role-name they actually knew about, and Evil!elandera used that as part of a claim.

@xxGaea, @GaeaXX, Can you confirm or deny village roles being unique or not?

Anyway, dropping the above 10 people from the list leaves me with only 8 more, being:

1. @May I suggest The Only Joe
2. xinoehp512
3. Snipexe
4. alVoidus
5. |257|-|
6. Araris Valerian
7. Kidpen
8. Walin

Of these, @Kidpen, @Snipexe, @Walin @xinoehp512 and @May I suggest The Only Joe have been pretty low on activity, making them hard to parse. Droughts reveal that he knew of a couple of roles that could have obfuscated someone's alignment was interesting however, and I'd like to know if he can elaborate on that a bit more. Could the results of Rath's current role-scan be a result of that, for example?

@Kidpen claimed to have a role similar to Steel's scavenger ability. Could you pick up Tiny Wilson's ability which allowed for votes to be moved? That'd be easy to check.

While rereading the past days, I also encountered this post :

Note that Rath considers Crimsn's claimed role-name to be reasonable. If he hadn't done any role-exchanges or whatever, this might be a villager thing, but even a villager would already seen Jon's name to add to his own-role name and notice a lack of pattern. On the other hand, he claimed that his scan happened at a time when Crimsn wouldn't have been protected by their ability, which seems odd if it was a lie.

Anyway, until I learn a bit more about potential role-scan shenanigans, I won't be voting on Rath. I'll be dropping a vote on Alvron instead. they've said very little of substance, and though they do have a role-claim on record, it came after the naming convention was already revealed, and it's something very hard to check. They where also very late to actually join in the vote against Devotary, and their comment about having to vote bothers me a lot. Unfortunately, explaining the exact reason why would involve revealing something I've been told in PM's that I probably shouldn't, but if @Renalvgade could elaborate on why he made that comment, it might set some of my suspicions to rest.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Aranduensis
grammar

[Young Bard he/him]

Hmmm... I was roleblocked last night. Since most people seem to think I'm village, I would not be surprised if it was the Vashikaran that roleblocked me.

Also, just so we're clear, why are we not assuming that Rath was simply redirected on the Crimsn Chanarach scan? That seems like the most obvious solution, but I may have missed something. (Well, there is the fact that a village redirection might have claimed by now, of course. But they might just be exercising restraint because claiming wouldn't reveal a Spambot or anything of that sort.)

Thirdly, I'd expect that the Babaji probably converted last night due to being in dire straits, so we can not rely on clearing anyone based on their role anymore. I want to make a note on who would be a likely target, but that gets into IKYK territory really fast. If it were me, I'd want to play it safe given how disastrous the first two rounds were for them, and pick someone with a claimed useful role who seemed to be generally trusted, but isn't really in the spotlight.

I'll vote for Kidpen, for reasons I've talked about last cycle, and also because he's one of only a few people the remaining Eliminators could be, given how many people are claimed now. Plus, I want a tiebreak to test Renalvgade's role.

[CadCom he/him]

4 hours ago, Furamirionind said:

@Cadmium Compounder, same code as with Steeldancer. First number is paragraph, second number is number of characters in.

4-4 6-2 5-4 2-2: 2-5 7-6 2-55-4 3-4 6-1 4-1 ---- 6-1 2-2 4-3, 7-5 5-4 5-4 1-1 1-5 7-6 3-2 2-2 7-6 1-2, 1-6 1-51, 1-6 7-6 2-2, 2-1 5-4 2-5 1-15 2-2 2-3, 1-1, 6-68 1-6 4-1 2-2, 1-6 7-6, 1-6 2-3, 5-1 3-1 1-6, 6-68 1-6 1-2 2-2 1-4, 6-2 7-6, 3-2 2-2.

I really need to stop sending PMs with 7 paragraphs... Well, at least it gives me more letters/data to make codes with Lol.

I only spent the last 20 minutes figuring this out. Kinda ridiculous, but I kept messing up. Anyway, Have you found anything useful from that? people I can clear, use a code so no one else knows if you want?

2nd edit: I also can't help but notice that based on the code format, you've sent a different message to Steel than you sent to me? The spaces are in the wrong spot on many words.

EDIT:

(1) Rathmaskal: Seventh Saint,

(1) Alvron: Aranduensis(randuir),

(1) Kidpen: Metabardnition(Young Bard),

Edited March 27, 2019 by Cadmium Compounder

[Rathmaskal he/him]

5 hours ago, Adavantos said:

I still don't understand why Rath scanning Devotary (while protected by Vodiyehi) turned up Eliminator instead of "Your action failed."

I don't either...  Like I said when I posted it, I think it was just an unexpected mechanic.

I apologize for not following up last night...got hung up at work and then basically crashed when I got home, so I didn't feel comfortable enough with anyone to kill.  I'll let you know when we get to the weekend what my new ability is.

Edit: Guess I should have read page 2 before responding.

Metabardnition actually has noted a very high possibility there.  I didn't post N1, so the redirect role would have grabbed my action I believe.  Ouch...  OK.

As for Rand's question as to why I though the role name was reasonable, it was because I didn't see a definitive pattern.  Yes, I saw that usernames were used between my own role and the one dead person's role, but 2 data points doesn't necessarily result in a pattern (although, yes, I know, 2 points determine a line...) - the fact that my own name wasn't exactly like the other (sorry, since this is an edit, apparently it's tough to quote in the edit) made me feel it was reasonable that the names didn't necessarily follow a pattern.

Edited March 27, 2019 by |247|-|
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