[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[TalenelStonesiniew]

23 minutes ago, Jenet said:

Thanks!

I agree, also with the comparison to Rand al'Thor. What impresses me a great deal, is that this ideal is so difficult for Kaladin that he actually refuses to protect people he loves by refusing to swear the ideal. Syl says she understands. So, Kaladin risks that Adolin (acutely) and Dalinar and his soldiers on the other side of the Oathgate dies. As far as he knows at that moment, they will die unless he swears the oath. I think the ideal goes deep into the very reason behind Kaladins depression and guilt. And I don't necessarily think that he has other secrets that we have not heard of, which he may or may not have. But there may also be something in his character, his pride, that prevents him, something that he cannot see and get himself disentangled from. Isn't Navani teasing Dalinar somewhere because he is indulging in his guilt? You can actually be so obsessed with your guilt that you sort of refuse to let go of it, especially if you also suffer from a decent amount of pride. Which I think Kaladin does...

Jenet, I think that is what makes the 4th oath so difficult for Kaladin. It's opposing emotions. Kaladin wants to protect everyone. That is who he is. Yet, the 4th oath is diametric to his very being. I cannot protect everyone. He's not ready to admit that.

[Asrael he/him]

This is the reason I read Brandon Sanderson. This is the reason Game of Thrones will never compare. I cried like a baby when Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher, and again when Jasnah embraced Renarin, and again when Dalinar overcame Odium. Brandon Sanderson overwhelms me with the goodness in his character's hearts, and it makes me wan't to be a better person.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Asrael

[TalenelStonesiniew]

12 minutes ago, Asrael said:

This is the reason I read Brandon Sanderson. This is the reason Game of Thrones will never compare. I cried like a baby when Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher, and again when he overcame Odium. Brandon Sanderson overwhelms me with the goodness in his character's hearts, and it makes me wan't to be a better person.

GRRM is a glass half empty guy. BS is a glass half full guy. Both are valid viewpoints. I personally align with BS's viewpoint. It's hard to feel that way in today's world and I feel myself drifting to GRRM's viewpoint, so I appreciate reading books written by a talented author who writes amazing fantasy that is realistic, yet full of hope

[GoddessIMHO]

I'm always a little down when I finish a book like this. I want the next part now.

My least favorite part was Shadesmar.  The story seems to drag there even though the characters are physically moving through it. 

I am very happy with the Adolin arc. I would like to see him awaken Maya but not be a Radiant. The romance did seem a little low key but sizzling and fraught with tension isn't what Shallan needed.  She needed loving acceptance of herself,  the real Shallan, even as the other parts continue to exist.

Adolin is the man raised to be Dalinar's vision of the perfect,  code following,  man. That he finally stood up and said no to Dalinar was great.  I would have been unhappy if he had become king.

Jasnah,  what can be said? She was amazing. I kept thinking she should be Queen but wasn't expecting it. I thought it would be Sebarial.

Moash sucks eggs and I hate him as much as I have forgiven and like Venli.

Elokar came so close. I'm happy Wit saved his spren. I take it that is what the fused were looking for.

There are many things that I still don't understand. 

[WalksIntoMordor]

I finished this last night and I'm still shaking from it.  In the best way.

I was surprised by how much we were shown in this book, but at the same time it helps make it clear that there are FAR more secrets than we expected.

The fight at the end... holy crap, that was a lot of fun to read.  Especially Jasnah.  Especially when Jasnah was talking to someone else and kept over-the-shouder killing Fused that attacked her with Soulcasting and Ivory, then carrying on the conversation as if she didn't feel interrupted.

Actually... all of Jasnah.  Her takedown of Ialai felt especially fun (I also enjoyed her takedown of Amaram, followed by her introspection of it and going "You know... that was actually poor form on my part, I need to get better.")

I think this is my favorite portrayal of Wit... or really Hoid in general.  The moments in this book felt really genuine and insightful into his character, as did the letters in this book (especially to Sazed).

Taln's return and his reaction to the revelation that they had left him in there (and that it had bought humanity four millenia) made me a bit teary-eyed.  That was... quite powerful.

I had actually before this book had a theory that the Death Rattles were associated with Voidbinding in some way - the fact that they were capitalized was a weird clue.  Finding out how much of the stuff that had been taken for granted, though (Death Rattles, the Thrill) were more than we thought... that was amazingly well-written, I think.

Teft.  Just Teft.

And I for one do hope that Adolin can heal Maya.  I know that Brandon has said it's nearly impossible since you need to find just the right shaped spiritweb, which is nigh-impossible - but I still want it to happen.  If anyone can do the impossible, it's Adolin.

Ugh... I have a million theories and pieces of theories, and I'm not sure where to start.  Was the knife made of a god-metal?  Was the knife a form of hemalurgy in its own right?  What spren are going to make up the armors of the different orders? (We already have seen that windspren swirling around a windrunner may make up their shardplate, we saw shapelike spren around Jasnah as she fought, and the gloryspren showed up around Dalinar as he said his third oath - I'm thinking those are all going to be important).  Will Rysn ever become a Knight herself, or is she bound to be something else (since she seems bound to a Larkin in a weird way)?

I really had fun with this book.  And now I have to finish up Warbreaker and a couple short stories and I'll be caught up on the Cosmere (and waiting with anticip..... pation for the next book....)

[I Am Witless she/her]

Hi ya'll!

I finished Oathbringer about ten minutes ago, so here are some of my thoughts.

Favorite things: Bridge Four gradually transitioning into Radients, especially Teft's mini-arc. Lift being awesome. A Renarin viewpoint (finally!). Adolin and Shallan getting married. The view into Shadesmar, which we've just seen as a barren, lifeless place. NO MATING. As well as the countless other things that I've doubtlessly forgotten. Szeth and Nightblood. "Azure", who we absolutely don't recognize at all from any other cosmere book. A 100 pg long battle scene.

Least favorite things: Moash. I really wanted a redemption arc from him, but I guess we need a villain in the next couple books. No interaction between "Azure" and Zahel at any point. Elhokar dying. Shallan still not being sure of who she is. Kaladin's thing with seeing both sides of the conflict was really good, but still really painful to watch (almost as painful as the end of the dueling scene in WoR).  A 100 pg long battle scene.

Ships: At about 3/4 of the way through the book, Dalinar + Happiness, Kaladin + Happiness, Shallan + Happiness, Teft + Happiness....... You know what? 3/4 of the way through the book I shipped everyone with happiness and peace. And, at the end of the book, I still do.

The most important step is the next one. As in, the next book.  

[Marc]

Hmmm, crazy theory time.  Could it be possible that Dalinar, after picking up extra power from splinters of Honor will ultimately be able to somehow "unite" all the shards and reforge Adonalsium?  (Did I spell that right).  Yeah, crazy thought huh.

[Ailvara]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

Hmmm, crazy theory time.  Could it be possible that Dalinar, after picking up extra power from splinters of Honor will ultimately be able to somehow "unite" all the shards and reforge Adonalsium?  (Did I spell that right).  Yeah, crazy thought huh.

If he doesn't unite at least the Roshar's three I'll be surprised. And that would be a good start, especially if other shards yield to Hoid's pleas and interfere, leading to some ultimate confrontation. But imo leaving all worlds without their individual shards would be too drastic and limiting. 

[Willow]

7 hours ago, Jenet said:

I agree, also with the comparison to Rand al'Thor. What impresses me a great deal, is that this ideal is so difficult for Kaladin that he actually refuses to protect people he loves by refusing to swear the ideal. Syl says she understands. So, Kaladin risks that Adolin (acutely) and Dalinar and his soldiers on the other side of the Oathgate dies. As far as he knows at that moment, they will die unless he swears the oath. I think the ideal goes deep into the very reason behind Kaladins depression and guilt. And I don't necessarily think that he has other secrets that we have not heard of, which he may or may not have. But there may also be something in his character, his pride, that prevents him, something that he cannot see and get himself disentangled from. Isn't Navani teasing Dalinar somewhere because he is indulging in his guilt? You can actually be so obsessed with your guilt that you sort of refuse to let go of it, especially if you also suffer from a decent amount of pride. Which I think Kaladin does...

I think it's more than just his pride, I think it's also because after Kaladin swears an oath, he has to live up to it. We've seen what happens if he doesn't, and I don't think he ever wants himself and Syl to go through that again. He knows what the words are, but he also knows he cannot live up to it yet, and it seems that to him, the consequences of him failing his oaths will be worse than the situation in Shadesmar is at the moment. That's pretty scary.

I do think you're right that this next ideal has something to do with his depression and guilt. His second and third oath were specifically about actions. He doesn't have to like people, he just has to protect them. He could probably do something similar for this next oath. But if it has something to do with forgiving himself, something much more intangible, it might be that he simply can't do it, yet.

I also think that it's good Kaladin has other people to watch his back and help him out, even if I secretly wanted him to swear the 4th ideal, beat all the Fused, and save the day somehow.

[Taliax none (name only)]

Reactions:

-DALINAR.  Oh my goodness Dalinar.  I want to give that man a hug.  His arc was slow at the beginning I felt but STORMS there at the end with all the revelations and him finally forgiving himself and aghghdsghkhdslk;l  *cough* Alright let's see if any of the rest of this can be more coherent...

-I'm glad Kaladin got to spend lots of time with Adolin and Shallan, I was afraid from Part 1 that he'd be separated for most of the book.  Also, I really hope that he is still good friends with both of them and they're all bros even though Adolin and Shallan get married.

-On that topic... Pattern can't tell Shallan and Adolin "no mating" anymore... XD

-Also on that topic, I was really thinking Shallan wouldn't end up with Adolin, but I think that was the best choice by the end of the book and I'm definitely glad we got some closure on that.  (But please stop with the PDA, alright?  XD After having third wheeled a lot recently I found their public displays of affection weirdly annoying even though normally that wouldn't bother me in books xD). But I really did like Shallan/Kaladin so I'm a little sad that ship sunk... *sigh* As long as they still get to banter with each other and be friends and not awkward I think it'll still be good.  I'll be fine.  *tries to convince self*

-Well clearly everyone can tell what I was invested in...  I want to know more about Renarin and the effects of him having bonded a corrupted spren, and the implications of his visions.  I was actually surprised that theory ended up happening, though I'm very glad Ren wasn't actually evil or anything.  I think he's still a real Radiant, and I wonder if his spren would change back of Sja-anat was contained.

-Dude all the parts with the Thrill.  I love how it got characterized as both a force and having kind of a personality.  Crazy stuff.  I screamed when I thought Dalinar was actually going to become Odium's champion.  (Good thing no one else was home at the time.)

-Like 50 million more things but I'm not thinking straight enough right now XD

-All the Bridge Four things

-Lopen

-Lopen again

-Okay I'm done

Edit:  AND VIVIENNA HOW DID I FORGET TO SAY THAT

AND NIGHTBLOOD

And Lift talking about Dalinar's butt XD

Edited November 19, 2017 by Taliax

[Fulminato he/him]

On 17/11/2017 at 8:18 AM, Musica said:

Theory Time-

Don't know if someone covered it, but could the humans on Roshar have gotten there from the third planet in the system? We know we have Roshar, Braize (Damnation, where Odium is imprisoned) and a third planet, that people theorized is where the Tranquiline Halls are located. What if Vorin lore is actually based on the humans' desire to return to their home world? And how exactly did Surgebinding destroy it??

odium apparence was like a shin, the shin land was 'gifted' to the immigrant and filled whit the plants and animals of the destroyed planet. but the shin are quite different from the rest of roshar, and no one of the herald match the shin feature. i don't think we know all the story, something miss for sure.

the tranquilline hall stuff in the (no so) last desolation vision dalinar listen jezrien spoke

“I will lead the charge for the Tranquiline Halls,” the man shouted. “You will not see me again, but think not on that now! You have won your peace. Revel in it! Rebuild. Go now, help your fellows. Carry with you the light of your Herald king’s words. We are victorious, at long last, over evil!”

Oathbringer Capter 42 "consequence"

On 17/11/2017 at 6:34 PM, Starla said:

1) What’s deal with the oracle orb in the lighthouse that showed Kaladin a future vision? It seemed connected to the highstorm, and the stormfather sensed his presence when he touched it, but I don’t believe Honor has any access to foretelling. Could it use magic from another world, maybe Sel? It's great to see Kaladin and Dalinar’s strong connection in this section.

2) What’s the deal with painting Kaladin saw in Celebrant? The merchant said it was from the Court of the Gods. Could this be related to Lightsong in some way? It’s been a while since I read Warbreaker, but I recall paintings being a big deal for him.

1) odium in the dialogue whit Mr T. is amaze of the diagram (“You did this without access to Fortune, or the Spiritual Realm? Truly incredible.”) , and azure "I realize you’re all eager to return to your lands. I can even believe that—through some tide of Fortune—Kaladin Stormblessed has foreseen some danger.”

the sphere can foretell the future, at on extend. but need someone invested to works properly

2) in warbreaker the people think the returned can see the future in the painting, i suppose, like the sphere, a sufficient invested person can make this work.

On 17/11/2017 at 7:15 PM, Islington said:

Her strange "Shardblade", her insistence that she's been in Shadesmar before to travel, her preparation for Awakening, and her speaking about Nightblood all stood out to me as things that if you haven't read Warbreaker, would lend Azure "I'm a protagonist" syndrome. 

 

Azure raises SO MANY questions to the reader of just the Stormlight Archive that she could eclipse some of the main characters in terms of Protagonist-ness. She feels like the protagonist of a separate work dropping by to say hello, which she is, but it makes you want to see more of her than perhaps some of the actual main characters. She basically says "I'm from another planet with different magic and I have a special lightsaber and know other mysterious characters in the plot. Anyway, good luck saving the world or whatever, I'm going to go reminisce about Warbreaker 2: Vengeance over here" and it kinda pulled me out of the story for a bit. 

the only awakening we see is hoid make the doll move (the jacket turn grey is the proof), azure simply ask some cutted fabric. if you don't know nothing of the awekening process this don't make a huge hole. like in wor the metal dust hoid put in his drink and the 'friendly attitude' of the crowd after.

On 17/11/2017 at 9:42 PM, Harbour said:

Most of the guns, hooks and theories Sanderson left in the end of the WoR to make us wait for more pretty much were shot in the First Part or simply dealt with unexpectedly easy (Sadeas murder).

sadeas murder is the foundation of the flip of the army in the Thaylenah city battle. many in the forum buzzing of politicly fallout, we see none, but the murder is very important in the 'oathbringher economy story'

23 hours ago, DiamondMind said:

I haven't read all the reactions up to now, but does anyone understand why Mr. T decided to switch to Odium's side at the end of the book? I thought he just wanted to discredit Dalinar and take up the resistance himself. But not only does he leave, he opens an Oathgate for the Voidbringers and attacks Bridge 4 to steal the Honorblade. Then he meets with Odium and decides to capitulate completely? It doesn't seem to make any sense.

Mr T want the human survive, even a little seed is enough to reborn the tree, the diagram isn't never point to defeat odium, 

8 hours ago, Jenet said:

Thanks!

I agree, also with the comparison to Rand al'Thor. What impresses me a great deal, is that this ideal is so difficult for Kaladin that he actually refuses to protect people he loves by refusing to swear the ideal. Syl says she understands. So, Kaladin risks that Adolin (acutely) and Dalinar and his soldiers on the other side of the Oathgate dies. As far as he knows at that moment, they will die unless he swears the oath. I think the ideal goes deep into the very reason behind Kaladins depression and guilt. And I don't necessarily think that he has other secrets that we have not heard of, which he may or may not have. But there may also be something in his character, his pride, that prevents him, something that he cannot see and get himself disentangled from. Isn't Navani teasing Dalinar somewhere because he is indulging in his guilt? You can actually be so obsessed with your guilt that you sort of refuse to let go of it, especially if you also suffer from a decent amount of pride. Which I think Kaladin does...

all the time is near to spoke the word thinking of the fallen friend make him rebound. sworn the oath fell like forget and cast away all of them.

i think the oath is more tied to accept losing the people he care and protect.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Fulminato

[Willow]

1 minute ago, Taliax said:

-I'm glad Kaladin got to spend lots of time with Adolin and Shallan, I was afraid from Part 1 that he'd be separated for most of the book.  Also, I really hope that he is still good friends with both of them and they're all bros even though Adolin and Shallan get married.

Yeah, I agree with you. I love Kaladin's banter with Adolin. We know Kaladin's pretty good at wordplay, but I like that their topics are often military things Adolin knows a lot about, so he has the opportunity to banter back. Not that he's stupid, just that due to Vorinism a lot of topics are things men just aren't supposed to be concerned about, and witty wordplay seems to be one of those things. I think those two are going to be fine.

I'm not so sure about Kaladin's and Shallan's friendship. I hope they'll talk about Helaran at some point, and clarify some other things, because in this book their conversations often had a not-so-good undertone. Kaladin mentions it in chapter 77:

Kaladin frowned. Comments like that were part of what confused him about Shallan. She seemed perfectly friendly one moment, then she'd snap at him the next, while pretending it was merely part of normal conversation. But she didn't talk like that to others, not even in jest.

So, yeah. I hope that will go better soon.

 

[ccstat he/him]

Overall, I absolutely loved it. I was struck again and again by how much Brandon's skill has improved as a writer. I have immense faith in his ability to pull off this whole series with aplomb. One of the things we love about Brandon is his subversion of tropes, and I felt that with the OB climax he very cleverly subverted his own style by letting a number of characters fail that we thought would succeed. 

Thanks to encouragement from @FeatherWriter I decided to pseudo-liveblog my OB reactions. I've now finished the book and published the collected ranting, musing, theorizing, and fist pumping in this google doc. (Comments are enabled). I've spoilered a few highlights below.

I am really glad to have recorded my thoughts as I read. It's fun to geek out to other fans, but more importantly it slowed my reading down so that I didn't get swept along to the ending too quickly. With several past releases, including WoR, I have regretted my automatic stay-up-all-night-to-finish approach to books because I got to the payoffs without time to reflect and let the tension truly build. Making scene-by-scene comments let me absorb the story more, and increased my enjoyment a lot.

That's not to say that I didn't stay up all night at one  point. My wife tolerates my Sandersobsession, but doesn't understand it. Her comment to me was, "It's a good thing he doesn't write books any faster than he does." I might have died a little when she said that, even though she's right about me losing days or weeks of my life every time there is a book release.

If you do read my reactions, you will quickly notice that I was obsessed with Shallan's psyche. Her personas are easily the best part of the book for me. And that's saying a lot, because so many other things were amazing. I'm eager to jump into the discussion, but I haven't read any other posts yet so it may take me a while to get oriented to this incredibly area of the forums.

In keeping with the thematic numerology, I've picked a top 10 from my reaction comments to highlight here.

Spoiler

 

(In no particular order)

1. Storms, how do you do it, Brandon? How do you make carrying a bridge into an emotional moment?
2. And he’s growing yelig-nasty out of his plate.
3. Tune in next time for the continuing adventures of Shallan's personas and everyone else who isn't vivenna
4. It's nice that in this horror movie you can get killed and then go explore the rest of the haunted house
5. Merciful Domi. IS ODIUM RESPONSIBLE FOR THE IRIALI LONG TRAIL?!??? I’m sorry, but this one deserves all caps. WHAT IN THE HALLS?
6. I should be excited, but all I can think about is how Brandon is going to get out of sharing any information this time
7. Secret drawers all through the library! Full of secret gems hold secret recordings in a secret language! Kelsier would be in heaven for five seconds, then dig up the floor.
8. Hugs seem to be solving everything this year on Roshar: Lift x Nin, Syl x Kal, Jasnah x Renarin, Adolin x [Shallan/Veil/Radiant/SheDoesn’tEvenKnow], Navani x Dalinar.
9. Yeah, Hoid. Who could have predicted that all your secrecy makes you look untrustworthy? I'm sure we're all surprised.
10. For thousands of years, Ash the herald of art and beauty has, consciously or not, infused Rosharan cultures with images of Taln’s hands, because that is what she remembers, what she misses. Brandon, that’s beautiful. I love how you put these little pieces of worldbuilding in and make them meaningful

 

 

[WayneSpren he/him]

1. How do people hate Moash for helping to provide us with the most shocking and powerful scene in the book? His dilemmas and actions are much more interesting than most of the cast and his views of society are a great perspective for this world. He's definitely my favorite member of Bridge Four.

2. I feel that Sanderson's prose has actually devolved from early works, notably WoK...in this book he had a tendency to repeat the same words over and over while not giving us the amount of detail on settings that he'd supplied us in earlier novels. Still, the lore in this book is above and beyond anything we've seen before, though admittedly much less tied together. 

3. Dalinar's character evolved into something extremely interesting and his dilemmas throughout the book make him one of my new favorite characters. Though if he actually had become Odium's champion, his story would have been perfect in my eyes.

4. Shallan's arc, while interesting, was pretty unrelated to her development from the first book. Plus, the love triangle stuff was annoying and in most scenes unfounded. 

5. Renarin's development continues to be clumsy and award in my eyes, and previous plot threads concerning him (what's in the box?) have been seemingly left behind. I also feel that Jasnah's letting him live and the consequences of his corrupted spren were completely forgotten about.

6. Some interludes, like the one with the Soulcaster, were amazing and built the lore in a fantastic way. Others felt like filler as to get the required three interludes per part. 

7. Oh yeah, I forgot Teft. Every viewpoint with Teft was enthralling and emotionally charged.

8. I feel that overall, this book is being a little overrated and has a multitude of flaws that would keep it from being the best Cosmere novel. Thoughts? 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by WayneSpren

[LadySpite]

Not sure if this has been mentioned (but don't think so) , I am really interested to see if and when Dalinar admits to Adolin and Renarin that he actually killed their Mum instead of her being killed buy those in the Rift - surely combined with how he behaved to them around that time, it will be very damaging to both of their relationships with him - maybe this will 'break' Adolin as he was close to her as well as hero worshipping his Dad (not to mention that he never feels he lives up to his Dad's ideal).

Unless I missed the part where they found out - read so fast and late at night lol 

 

[The Invested Beard]

Wow. What can I say. Just...wow. I can honestly say this is my new favorite Sanderson novel. The worldbuilding, the characters, the threads all got tied in...just amazing. I love all the answers that got dropped at a steady rate but I am still cautiously thinking there's more to what we got. For instance; the Recreance. There was mention throughout the book about "The Sibling" which appears to possibly be the third Bondsmith spren. At one point the Stormfather said something about the Sibling that reeeeeeeaally made it sound like the Recreance or past events were very closely tied to this spren or entity. Can't wait to find out more there.

Also Aimians. For all the awesome info we got dropped we still know very little about what's going on with them, why they're so important, what secret they're guarding that could destroy everything, what's going on in the caves under their islands...so much still there. I smell further revelations that are going to twist what we know and break our brains.

Random stuff:

Nightblood and Lift BFFs FOREVER

Beard? I think Brandon's noticed me.

All the amazing face melting stuff we got and people are still kvetching about Shadolin/Shalladin? It's dead folks, give it a rest.

Hoid's stuff in this book was amazing and I can't wait to see what he gets up to with Elhokar's spren.

Only thing that disappointed me was Dustbringer stuff. Why did we have to get the bad apple? Ah well there's always hope for the future.

Edited November 19, 2017 by The Invested Beard

[Tetrisash]

For some clarification, maybe I'm missing it, but do we have any more light shed on the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods? The Sons of Honor, through Amaram, I got the impression their society has the goal of helping the Listeners reclaim their world from the humans. The Diagram, I feel it was Taravangian's plan the whole time to unite all he could and be the human leader under Odium's rule. The Ghostbloods are still ??? to me. Maybe the only secret society that doesn't suck?

[Judsing99]

On 11/15/2017 at 0:02 AM, Mr Horrible said:

I agree again. I think the most important part for Taravangian/the KR was the revelation that Surgebinding destroyed their previous planet. Now this might be enough to cause them to set it aside when it's been 2000 years since the last desolation and they show no sign of starting again, but in a situation where there's a huge threat in Odium I don't really understand why anyone would expect the KR to not use any weapons they have available.

Where does it state that surgebinding destroyed their previous planet? If memory serves, I thought that was something Odium alluded to? My question then lies in the fact that spren are a creation of Honor and Cultivation. I thought the humans didn't find surgebinding until they moved to Roshar? If that is the case, this might point to a different reason for fleeing the planet. Also, I'm not sure that anything Odium said can be taken at face value, as his intentions are to facilitate war at any cost.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

53 minutes ago, Judsing99 said:

Where does it state that surgebinding destroyed their previous planet? If memory serves, I thought that was something Odium alluded to? My question then lies in the fact that spren are a creation of Honor and Cultivation. I thought the humans didn't find surgebinding until they moved to Roshar? If that is the case, this might point to a different reason for fleeing the planet. Also, I'm not sure that anything Odium said can be taken at face value, as his intentions are to facilitate war at any cost.

"In the past, Honor was able to guard against this, the Stormfather told him. He convinced the Radiants they were righteous, even if this land hadn’t originally been theirs. Who cares what your ancestors did, when the enemy is trying to kill you right now? But in the days leading to the Recreance, Honor was dying. When that generation of knights learned the truth, Honor did not support them. He raved, speaking of the Dawnshards, ancient weapons used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls. Honor . . . promised that Surgebinders would do the same to Roshar."

 

Chapter 113

[HarryKal]

I have a doubt... jasnah mentioned in earlier part that one way to stop Odium is to find and kill the heralds. In the end Odium made Moash kill a Herald!!!! Is it a special knife that traps the soul of Herald like gem stone capturing unmade or am I missing something.

I finished the book yesterday around midnight and I was tired to reread this.. taking easy way by asking you guys

[IndigoAjah he/him]

2 minutes ago, HarryKal said:

I have a doubt... jasnah mentioned in earlier part that one way to stop Odium is to find and kill the heralds. In the end Odium made Moash kill a Herald!!!! Is it a special knife that traps the soul of Herald like gem stone capturing unmade or am I missing something.

I finished the book yesterday around midnight and I was tired to reread this.. taking easy way by asking you guys

There are a few threads on that dagger. But in essence, it seems to permanently kill the Herald (I suspect utilising a Spike and then a Gem to store the essence long term) which would allow Odium to permanently break the Oathpact if he kills them all. Or doesn't count as them dying cause the Herald essence stays on Roshar trapped in the Gem so again, Odium can control the Oathpact if he gets every Herald

[The Invested Beard]

[IndigoAjah he/him]

Fuel to the fire:

 

Questioner

With the Heralds we know that there's only one left... one Herald that's still bound to the Oathpact--

Brandon Sanderson

OK, only one Herald was about, was abandoned-- You'll find out the mechanics of that in the next book.

Questioner

So are we going to see more of Taln...

Brandon Sanderson

You will see more of-- the Oathpact is not completely broken, the others are still bound to the Oathpact.

Questioner

Even though they kind of sort of said they were abandoning it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, so there's still connection there, so you'll find out more about all of this and how it works.

[Jenet]

7 hours ago, Willow said:

I think it's more than just his pride, I think it's also because after Kaladin swears an oath, he has to live up to it. We've seen what happens if he doesn't, and I don't think he ever wants himself and Syl to go through that again. He knows what the words are, but he also knows he cannot live up to it yet, and it seems that to him, the consequences of him failing his oaths will be worse than the situation in Shadesmar is at the moment. That's pretty scary.

I do think you're right that this next ideal has something to do with his depression and guilt. His second and third oath were specifically about actions. He doesn't have to like people, he just has to protect them. He could probably do something similar for this next oath. But if it has something to do with forgiving himself, something much more intangible, it might be that he simply can't do it, yet.

I also think that it's good Kaladin has other people to watch his back and help him out, even if I secretly wanted him to swear the 4th ideal, beat all the Fused, and save the day somehow.

Yes, I loved that Kaladin didn't have to swear when he wasn't ready, and that others watched his back. Kaladin has been saving the day by swearing oaths in both previous books, and Sanderson is NOT that kind of guy who repeats himself too much, which I love.

I also completely agree with your opinion on the kind of oaths we might expect for the two last ideals. I am very much looking forward to learning more about them.

[Stromblessed he/him]

On 11/14/2017 at 0:00 PM, Leyrann said:

 

I think he's gonna be a Radiant, actually. Just not yet, though. Sure want to see how this is going to develop in the future!

I hope not . Seeing how much time was devoted to him exploring his relationship with his deadeye and it's eventual psuedo awakening , I'm kinda hoping he becomes something else entirely.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Stromblessed