[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[TalenelStonesiniew]

I have an theory. Kaladin is going to become a Herald. We know that this series is going to be split in two subseries of 5, with a number of years between them. We also have a better understanding of how the oathpact works, and the consequences for the Heralds. With Jezrain, Herald of the Windrunners dead, someone will need to take his place to fulfill the Oathpact. My general inclination is that the end of the 5th book will result in a draw between the Honor/Cultivation and Odium, and the Oathpact will be enacted. Kaladin, who will be a 5th heightening Windrunner by the end of the 5th book, will take Jezrain's place in locking Odium up, back on Braize, with all the consequences that entitles. If other Heralds die to Moash's blade, then their highest ranking Radiant will take their place in Braize. We could see Shallan, Jasnah, etc; all being the replacements for the the Heralds of their respective order fulfilling the Oathpact at the end of the desolation. 

The second half of Stormlight archive starts when one of the heralds breaks, and starts another desolation. My guess will be Taln breaks. He's held out for 4500 years, and his mind is already broken. It wouldn't take much to break it again. So we get a second desolation for the second half of the series, 10-15 years after the end of book 5.

[DSC01]

1 hour ago, TenthPancake said:

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

Regular Radiant spren, I believe. There was no evidence of Sja-Anat being active until recently (that we saw). Even though she isn't an "area effect"-type Unmade, like Moelach and Nergaoul, this makes her effects even more localized because she's more like a single person than a huge force blanketing an entire area. If any had been spreading out at all, they likely would have been noticed. It had been around a while, as it was also the spren that wanted to bond Eshonai [aside: my phone attempted an unfortunate, if humorous, autocorrect right there, as I narrowly avoided missing "bond" being falsely corrected to "bone"]. I believe the explanation she gives Venli is that she was traumatized by her grandfather's death in the Recreance and therefore sought a Listener host instead.

[frozndevl]

Quote

The soldiers started visibly. Yes, they could see the brands. Shallan’s illusion had worn off for some reason? Hopefully the other disguises fared better.

Did this little exchange ever get resolved? It's when Kaladin meets the wall guard squad.

[WhiteLeeopard]

5 hours ago, DiamondMind said:

I haven't read all the reactions up to now, but does anyone understand why Mr. T decided to switch to Odium's side at the end of the book? I thought he just wanted to discredit Dalinar and take up the resistance himself. But not only does he leave, he opens an Oathgate for the Voidbringers and attacks Bridge 4 to steal the Honorblade. Then he meets with Odium and decides to capitulate completely? It doesn't seem to make any sense.

What T did was completely unsurprising for me. Yielding to Odium was always at the top of my list of what I expected the Diagram to do. He just wanted to take over all the world to yield to Odium, hoping Odium would then spare all the world as his servant (T) was ruling it. Of course that plan proved to be as smart as could be expected. This was heavily implied it was coming in WoR, and there was further confirmation in OB when Mrall was growing uncomfortable with what they were doing and asking if there was a chance they could fight and win. The "smart people" (Adrotagia and T that day ) both totally ignored such stupidity and naiveness. That was one of the most clear signs of what the Diagram was.

4 hours ago, TenthPancake said:

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

I suspect a radiant normal one.

13 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Did this little exchange ever get resolved? It's when Kaladin meets the wall guard squad.

Lol. That was funny. Kaladin didn't like illusions because they felt like lies. Even in WoK Kaladin was deeply uncomfortable with tiny lies and misdirection, because Syl didn't like them. I suspect Windrunners were nearly incapable of lying. And by extension illusions likely slid off them as they (and their spren) dissapproved of the lie inherent in them.

Of course could just be my impression and there could be something more behind it .

Edited November 18, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Fineous]

I assumed it was because of 'Azure' being a Bio-Chromatic from Nalthis.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Fineous

[Sigsyl]

Just random questions:

What do you think Hoid was asking for in the letters that we saw replies to in the epigraphs? Help against Odium? But would that involve those shards leaving their worlds?

I'm also very curious to know what Odium's "conduit of freedom" in Thaylen City was. Was it merely Dalinar as his champion, or is there something else he wanted? 

I am really impressed by whichever courier service Hoid uses to deliver letters to all these shards. They really go the extra mile. 

[Aleksiel]

Was anyone else surprised Szeth chose to follow Dalinar? At first I though he was talking about Kal. When exactly did Szeth have time to learn enough about Dalinar to view him as worthy leader?

[Kasimir]

So, just finished Oathbringer after staying up 'till about 11AM to finish this. (I don't recommend it, and there were other factors...) I generally really liked the book, although I was somewhat surprised to discover the Sadeas thread ended up being more or less a non-issue. But maybe this will become a deal later on, especially if others find out.

Thoughts/Questions:
-I wonder what someone burning malatium would see if they looked at Moash...
-Pattern for MVP! No mating!
-I just enjoyed pretty much every character's appearance here, including Szeth and Nale. Though now I really want to know how Nale would react to Zhuangzi's dilemma.
-Adolin and Renarin are surprisingly well-adjusted, given their past. What with Dalinar's BSOD after Evi's death, and in the first place, Dalinar's constant absences.
-Shadesmar and the spren: I liked getting to see what was there, looking at spren societies, etcetera.
-I was ambivalent but now I really hope Adolin and Maya forge some kind of bond. Doesn't have to be Nahel, I'd happily go for friendship as long as Maya is revived, though I'm increasingly enjoying the idea of Edgedancer!Adolin.
-The issue with the Fused seems way about the KR paygrade. How do you even go about seeking reconciliation and making restitution for something as enormous as killing the ancient singers and stealing their homelands?
-Elhokar...why D: Eshonai too. Any character whose name begins with 'E' is at risk--quick, burn your glyphwards!

[Darvys]

15 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Was anyone else surprised Szeth chose to follow Dalinar? At first I though he was talking about Kal. When exactly did Szeth have time to learn enough about Dalinar to view him as worthy leader?

I might be wrong, but i think it had to do with who followed him and who sought to oppose him. You have Taravangian whom Szeth probably considers evil trying to murder a man served by a Windrunner because he would be an impediment to his plans, add to that the way Dalinar acted in his few interactions with Szeth and it's not too shocking. Though i myself was surprised at first.

[the winter system]

8 hours ago, DSC01 said:

Regular Radiant spren, I believe. There was no evidence of Sja-Anat being active until recently (that we saw). Even though she isn't an "area effect"-type Unmade, like Moelach and Nergaoul, this makes her effects even more localized because she's more like a single person than a huge force blanketing an entire area. If any had been spreading out at all, they likely would have been noticed. It had been around a while, as it was also the spren that wanted to bond Eshonai [aside: my phone attempted an unfortunate, if humorous, autocorrect right there, as I narrowly avoided missing "bond" being falsely corrected to "bone"]. I believe the explanation she gives Venli is that she was traumatized by her grandfather's death in the Recreance and therefore sought a Listener host instead.

Don’t you mean

a humerous misspelling? *wink*

[Starla]

10 hours ago, TenthPancake said:

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

I was under the impression that Timbre is Captain Ico's daughter. His father also was a nahel bond spren and was killed in the recreance. We saw the dad locked in a cabin with Maya on the ship. I am guessing the Reachers (lightspren) are Willshaper spren.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Starla
added "lightspren"

[DSC01]

41 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

Don’t you mean

a humerous misspelling? *wink*

All right, have an upvote--but I really shouldn't be encouraging such behavior.

[Stormcage Cotto]

The series being called The Stormlight Archive suddenly makes a lot more sense after they found the library.

[ggscv]

Anyone feel like Adolin will be the next to die? He doesn't have a POV/flashback scene lined up in for the coming books, he's not a Radiant, he's relatively expendable in terms of storyline importance and if he dies, Kaladin will be there to comfort Shallan. I feel like this Sadeas murder thing is far from over and will come back to haunt him.

[Jenet]

Hi!

I am new to this forum, but have been a fan since The Way of Kings. I just finished Oathbringer, and it more than fulfilled my expectations. My reactions:

I am always learning so much about myself when reading. I love to get surprised and intrigued by the characters and their development. Sometimes I guess what's coming, sometimes I am surprised, but I don't really care as long as the descriptions are so good that I literally cry, cheer or get goosebumps all over. I did that all the time when reading OB, perhaps even more than with the previous two. 

What impressed me most:

1. Kaladin: He knows what the words of his next ideal is, but he can't bring himself to say them, even though he knows he can save Adolin and all the others by doing it. That means this is a really, really difficult thing for him, and that these ideals are not for everyone to go through. I think this ideal has something to do with his (in)ability to forgive himself, to stop criticizing himself, to embrace his responsibility on a higher level in peace and serenity. Kaladin is so full of guilt feelings, and has many symptoms of a deep depression, and such a thing is not easy to just put aside by swearing that you will change. I have no idea how Sanderson will express this for Kaladin, but that is what I love to wait for. 

2. Shallan and her creative way to cope with her insecurities. And how Wit and Adolin in different ways help her calm down and realize that she is good enough and that she can be everything that she wants and still be Shallan. As a teacher I often would have liked to let mye pupils try out different sides of themselves in the same way. It is much easier to try out different sides of your personality while in disguise. Friends and other people who know you, tend to preserve you in one role, and especially shy people do often not dare to challenge how other people see them. Renarin seems to feel the same.

3. Dalinar. All of it. His struggles with the thrill and the heart of the revel. I wonder if he was challenged by all of the unmade all his life. Surrounded by them just as in the vision. Dalinar is such a fantastic character, and the fact that he has gone through all that and still manages to be a good man makes me love the character even more.

4. Forgiveness!

5. How some "bad guys" turn around and join the good guys, and how others just lose it. Moash, Amaram, Sadeas and Taravangian. I had hopes for them, but I see how they never really did regret anything of the evil things they had done. And that is why there never was any hope for them. They never admit that some - or all - of their wrongdoings was their own fault. They blame others. Dalinar also blamed others in the beginning, but what changes everything is that he asks for forgiveness. He admits that it was his own fault. Even though he actually was under the influence of the unmade. I just love how he becomes really powerful because he has shown that he can handle that kind of power and the temptations that come with it.

6. Jasnah. Queen! Of course. She is the obvious heir, and very accomplished in so many areas, and the Alethi finally stops with their silly gender rubbish that has made all sorts of trouble for them. Dalinar learns to write! And is the author of the book! 

7. Shallan uses her safehand to fight her first unmade. Is this a sign that there is special power in using your left hand? Especially for women? The Vorin church has been trying to hide a lot of what the Radiants could do. Are all these gender rules were made to prevent people from rediscovering their powers? 

8. Bridge four. Skar teaching, Lopen just saying the ideal by telling one of his stories. Rock. His family and his shooting. And Teft. Goodness, Teft.. The diversity!

9. I love the way it seems they are going to upend eveything. The heralds, the Radiants, the Unmade, the spren, the countries, the listeners/humans, men/women, there are no fixed boxes any longer. And we believe that there is hope because the cards are shuffled anew. Because Talenel resisted. I love his reaction. He was happy! 

10. Adolin. He is such a gem. I love that Brandon dares to describe such a hero. The anti-hero is more modern and common, but I like how Shallan settles with him anyway. He is not boring. He is just strong and genuine, and that is very difficult to describe in an interesting way. I think Sanderson manages just that. I have high hopes for his shardblade. I am looking forward to see what happens with Maya, and I don't want to speculate. It's going to be fun anyway.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Jenet
typos

[TalenelStonesiniew]

22 minutes ago, Jenet said:

Hi!

I am new to this forum, but have been a fan since The Way of Kings. I just finished Oathbringer, and it more than fulfilled my expectations. My reactions:

I am always learning so much about myself when reading. I love to get surprised and intrigued by the characters and their development. Sometimes I guess what's coming, sometimes I am surprised, but I don't really care as long as the descriptions are so good that I literally cry, cheer or get goosebumps all over. I did that all the time when reading OB, perhaps even more than with the previous two. 

What impressed me most:

1. Kaladin: He knows what the words of his next ideal is, but he can't bring himself to say them, even though he knows he can save Adolin and all the others by doing it. That means this is a really, really difficult thing for him, and that these ideals are not for everyone to go through. I think this ideal has something to do with his (in)ability to forgive himself, to stop criticizing himself, to embrace his responsibility on a higher level in peace and serenity. Kaladin is so full of guilt feelings, and has many symptoms of a deep depression, and such a thing is not easy to just put aside by swearing that you will change. I have no idea how Sanderson will express this for Kaladin, but that is what I love to wait for. 

2. Shallan and her creative way to cope with her insecurities. And how Wit and Adolin in different ways help her calm down and realize that she is good enough and that she can be everything that she wants and still be Shallan. As a teacher I often would have liked to let mye pupils try out different sides of themselves in the same way. It is much easier to try out different sides of your personality while in disguise. Friends and other people who know you, tend to preserve you in one role, and especially shy people do often not dare to challenge how other people see them. Renarin seems to feel the same.

3. Dalinar. All of it. His struggles with the thrill and the heart of the revel. I wonder if he was challenged by all of the unmade all his life. Surrounded by them just as in the vision. Dalinar is such a fantastic character, and the fact that he has gone through all that and still manages to be a good man makes me love the character even more.

4. Forgiveness!

5. How some "bad guys" turn around and join the good guys, and how others just lose it. Moash, Amaram, Sadeas and Taravangian. I had hopes for them, but I see how they never really did regret anything of the evil things they had done. And that is why there never was any hope for them. They never admit that some - or all - of their wrongdoings was their own fault. They blame others. Dalinar also blamed others in the beginning, but what changes everything is that he asks for forgiveness. He admits that it was his own fault. Even though he actually was under the influence of the unmade. I just love how he becomes really powerful because he has shown that he can handle that kind of power and the temptations that come with it.

6. Jasnah. Queen! Of course. She is the obvious heir, and very accomplished in so many areas, and the Alethi finally stops with their silly gender rubbish that has made all sorts of trouble for them. Dalinar learns to write! And is the author of the book! 

7. Shallan uses her safehand to fight her first unmade. Is this a sign that there is special power in using your left hand? Especially for women? The Vorin church has been trying to hide a lot of what the Radiants could do. Are all these gender rules were made to prevent people from rediscovering their powers? 

8. Bridge four. Skar teaching, Lopen just saying the ideal by telling one of his stories. Rock. His family and his shooting. And Teft. Goodness, Teft.. The diversity!

9. I love the way it seems they are going to upend eveything. The heralds, the Radiants, the Unmade, the spren, the countries, the listeners/humans, men/women, there are no fixed boxes any longer. And we believe that there is hope because the cards are shuffled anew. Because Talenel resisted. I love his reaction. He was happy! 

10. Adolin. He is such a gem. I love that Brandon dares to describe such a hero. The anti-hero is more modern and common, but I like how Shallan settles with him anyway. He is not boring. He is just strong and genuine, and that is very difficult to describe in an interesting way. I think Sanderson manages just that. I have high hopes for his shardblade. I am looking forward to see what happens with Maya, and I don't want to speculate. It's going to be fun anyway.

Great post Jenet. I just wanted to say I totally agree with you about point #1. Kaladin's 4th oath is going to involve self forgiveness in some way. He's very similar to Rand al'Thor in his carrying the burden of guilt for those who have died under the aegis of his protection. He'll have to learn that he can't save everyone, and he can't hold himself as a failure for that.

[Jenet]

24 minutes ago, TalenelStonesiniew said:

Great post Jenet. I just wanted to say I totally agree with you about point #1. Kaladin's 4th oath is going to involve self forgiveness in some way. He's very similar to Rand al'Thor in his carrying the burden of guilt for those who have died under the aegis of his protection. He'll have to learn that he can't save everyone, and he can't hold himself as a failure for that.

Thanks!

I agree, also with the comparison to Rand al'Thor. What impresses me a great deal, is that this ideal is so difficult for Kaladin that he actually refuses to protect people he loves by refusing to swear the ideal. Syl says she understands. So, Kaladin risks that Adolin (acutely) and Dalinar and his soldiers on the other side of the Oathgate dies. As far as he knows at that moment, they will die unless he swears the oath. I think the ideal goes deep into the very reason behind Kaladins depression and guilt. And I don't necessarily think that he has other secrets that we have not heard of, which he may or may not have. But there may also be something in his character, his pride, that prevents him, something that he cannot see and get himself disentangled from. Isn't Navani teasing Dalinar somewhere because he is indulging in his guilt? You can actually be so obsessed with your guilt that you sort of refuse to let go of it, especially if you also suffer from a decent amount of pride. Which I think Kaladin does...

[TalenelStonesiniew]

23 minutes ago, Jenet said:

Thanks!

I agree, also with the comparison to Rand al'Thor. What impresses me a great deal, is that this ideal is so difficult for Kaladin that he actually refuses to protect people he loves by refusing to swear the ideal. Syl says she understands. So, Kaladin risks that Adolin (acutely) and Dalinar and his soldiers on the other side of the Oathgate dies. As far as he knows at that moment, they will die unless he swears the oath. I think the ideal goes deep into the very reason behind Kaladins depression and guilt. And I don't necessarily think that he has other secrets that we have not heard of, which he may or may not have. But there may also be something in his character, his pride, that prevents him, something that he cannot see and get himself disentangled from. Isn't Navani teasing Dalinar somewhere because he is indulging in his guilt? You can actually be so obsessed with your guilt that you sort of refuse to let go of it, especially if you also suffer from a decent amount of pride. Which I think Kaladin does...

Jenet, I think that is what makes the 4th oath so difficult for Kaladin. It's opposing emotions. Kaladin wants to protect everyone. That is who he is. Yet, the 4th oath is diametric to his very being. I cannot protect everyone. He's not ready to admit that.

[Asrael]

This is the reason I read Brandon Sanderson. This is the reason Game of Thrones will never compare. I cried like a baby when Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher, and again when Jasnah embraced Renarin, and again when Dalinar overcame Odium. Brandon Sanderson overwhelms me with the goodness in his character's hearts, and it makes me wan't to be a better person.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Asrael

[TalenelStonesiniew]

12 minutes ago, Asrael said:

This is the reason I read Brandon Sanderson. This is the reason Game of Thrones will never compare. I cried like a baby when Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher, and again when he overcame Odium. Brandon Sanderson overwhelms me with the goodness in his character's hearts, and it makes me wan't to be a better person.

GRRM is a glass half empty guy. BS is a glass half full guy. Both are valid viewpoints. I personally align with BS's viewpoint. It's hard to feel that way in today's world and I feel myself drifting to GRRM's viewpoint, so I appreciate reading books written by a talented author who writes amazing fantasy that is realistic, yet full of hope

[GoddessIMHO]

I'm always a little down when I finish a book like this. I want the next part now.

My least favorite part was Shadesmar.  The story seems to drag there even though the characters are physically moving through it. 

I am very happy with the Adolin arc. I would like to see him awaken Maya but not be a Radiant. The romance did seem a little low key but sizzling and fraught with tension isn't what Shallan needed.  She needed loving acceptance of herself,  the real Shallan, even as the other parts continue to exist.

Adolin is the man raised to be Dalinar's vision of the perfect,  code following,  man. That he finally stood up and said no to Dalinar was great.  I would have been unhappy if he had become king.

Jasnah,  what can be said? She was amazing. I kept thinking she should be Queen but wasn't expecting it. I thought it would be Sebarial.

Moash sucks eggs and I hate him as much as I have forgiven and like Venli.

Elokar came so close. I'm happy Wit saved his spren. I take it that is what the fused were looking for.

There are many things that I still don't understand. 

[WalksIntoMordor]

I finished this last night and I'm still shaking from it.  In the best way.

I was surprised by how much we were shown in this book, but at the same time it helps make it clear that there are FAR more secrets than we expected.

The fight at the end... holy crap, that was a lot of fun to read.  Especially Jasnah.  Especially when Jasnah was talking to someone else and kept over-the-shouder killing Fused that attacked her with Soulcasting and Ivory, then carrying on the conversation as if she didn't feel interrupted.

Actually... all of Jasnah.  Her takedown of Ialai felt especially fun (I also enjoyed her takedown of Amaram, followed by her introspection of it and going "You know... that was actually poor form on my part, I need to get better.")

I think this is my favorite portrayal of Wit... or really Hoid in general.  The moments in this book felt really genuine and insightful into his character, as did the letters in this book (especially to Sazed).

Taln's return and his reaction to the revelation that they had left him in there (and that it had bought humanity four millenia) made me a bit teary-eyed.  That was... quite powerful.

I had actually before this book had a theory that the Death Rattles were associated with Voidbinding in some way - the fact that they were capitalized was a weird clue.  Finding out how much of the stuff that had been taken for granted, though (Death Rattles, the Thrill) were more than we thought... that was amazingly well-written, I think.

Teft.  Just Teft.

And I for one do hope that Adolin can heal Maya.  I know that Brandon has said it's nearly impossible since you need to find just the right shaped spiritweb, which is nigh-impossible - but I still want it to happen.  If anyone can do the impossible, it's Adolin.

Ugh... I have a million theories and pieces of theories, and I'm not sure where to start.  Was the knife made of a god-metal?  Was the knife a form of hemalurgy in its own right?  What spren are going to make up the armors of the different orders? (We already have seen that windspren swirling around a windrunner may make up their shardplate, we saw shapelike spren around Jasnah as she fought, and the gloryspren showed up around Dalinar as he said his third oath - I'm thinking those are all going to be important).  Will Rysn ever become a Knight herself, or is she bound to be something else (since she seems bound to a Larkin in a weird way)?

I really had fun with this book.  And now I have to finish up Warbreaker and a couple short stories and I'll be caught up on the Cosmere (and waiting with anticip..... pation for the next book....)

[I Am Witless]

Hi ya'll!

I finished Oathbringer about ten minutes ago, so here are some of my thoughts.

Favorite things: Bridge Four gradually transitioning into Radients, especially Teft's mini-arc. Lift being awesome. A Renarin viewpoint (finally!). Adolin and Shallan getting married. The view into Shadesmar, which we've just seen as a barren, lifeless place. NO MATING. As well as the countless other things that I've doubtlessly forgotten. Szeth and Nightblood. "Azure", who we absolutely don't recognize at all from any other cosmere book. A 100 pg long battle scene.

Least favorite things: Moash. I really wanted a redemption arc from him, but I guess we need a villain in the next couple books. No interaction between "Azure" and Zahel at any point. Elhokar dying. Shallan still not being sure of who she is. Kaladin's thing with seeing both sides of the conflict was really good, but still really painful to watch (almost as painful as the end of the dueling scene in WoR).  A 100 pg long battle scene.

Ships: At about 3/4 of the way through the book, Dalinar + Happiness, Kaladin + Happiness, Shallan + Happiness, Teft + Happiness....... You know what? 3/4 of the way through the book I shipped everyone with happiness and peace. And, at the end of the book, I still do.

The most important step is the next one. As in, the next book.  

[Marc]

Hmmm, crazy theory time.  Could it be possible that Dalinar, after picking up extra power from splinters of Honor will ultimately be able to somehow "unite" all the shards and reforge Adonalsium?  (Did I spell that right).  Yeah, crazy thought huh.

[Ailvara]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

Hmmm, crazy theory time.  Could it be possible that Dalinar, after picking up extra power from splinters of Honor will ultimately be able to somehow "unite" all the shards and reforge Adonalsium?  (Did I spell that right).  Yeah, crazy thought huh.

If he doesn't unite at least the Roshar's three I'll be surprised. And that would be a good start, especially if other shards yield to Hoid's pleas and interfere, leading to some ultimate confrontation. But imo leaving all worlds without their individual shards would be too drastic and limiting.