Ailvara

IIRC, Jasnah didn't fully negate that the Almighty existed. She believed there could have been a powerful being that sparked these beliefs, but who wasn't the kind of immortal almighty God that vorinism proclaimed. Or, to put it shortly: she was really close to the truth. So that could have been labelled as either atheism or heresy depending on how you look at it.

I think this is possible, but would be really quite heartbreaking. My hope is in the last epigraphs. They show that Szeth's wife is aware that Kaladin did something to protect the spren, so I think people will assume that this is what the mission was all about. Now I think we may still see a wide variety of reactions to that depending on how cultures perceive the spren, from an inconsequential trait of nature to gods, which would be interesting.

I'm the opposite, I really don't enjoy main characters getting together with secondary characters. It usually ends up with the secondary character remaining in the shadow of the main character, often to the point of feeling like they're there to support the main character emotionally or otherwise and less like their own person. I like balanced relationships in many ways, including meta - e.g. how much focus the character gets in the narrative. But to reach their own I guess.

I can't find the wob, but I recall Brandon mentioned that these five flashback characters will be main ones along with whoever of the current ones survives WaT. Another one I remember is that he originally considered to give Kaladin two flashback books. These make me think the current main characters are not going anywhere. I think it'll be more similar - though likely not to this extent - to what happened with Venli and Szeth. They got flashbacks, we got more of them overall, but they never even got close to taking over the lead.

I think Dalinar is dead-dead. But it's an open topic what will become of this new Blackthorn. If he ends up undergoing some major character development that will make him just like Dalinar in the end, maybe he could even gain his later memories... Would that make him be really Dalinar? Would anything? I think there's a chance we're gonna see such questions asked.

I really liked how he flipped the contest to be between Dalinar and Taravangian personally, and didn't mind terribly that Gavinor was used as a tool to achieve it. But as a concept in itself, the child champion was a really cheap plot-twist IMO. I'm relieved it wasn't as simple as the moral dilemma of killing a child vs sacrificing the world, neither from T's nor Dalinar's standpoint, because that would be extremely disappointing. So I'm really surprised that this is something he was so excited to use. But then it's been a long time, so maybe it was something that genuinely appealed to a much younger Brandon, and then he just had some lingering sentiment towards the idea? Even though he, IMO, long since has surpassed that level of writing conflict.

So by a quick browsing I didn't see anyone else mention this - should Hoid have an idea? Despite all the talk about one or both of them most likely dying, he literally called it out: IDK what kind of foresight this was, but he seems aware of what options are on the table, at least. Not that he's anywhere around to tell anybody, so the secret is safe anyway.

I think it may be a very interesting experience to have Kelsier as a "surprise reveal" in Stormlight, and then move on to Era 2, or even Secret History at this point to find out WTF just happened. It might be a strong one-punch realization instead of the more gradual journey of finding out first how Kelsier is alive, then what he's been up to. Also a great way to add more continuity to the reading experience, having this "How??" leading one from Stormlight 1-5 to MB Era 2. "The Sunlit Man" is a great example of how it's not necessary, not even intended to read in the most "logical" order. I'm sure if it was published after WaT, most people would be dead-set on reading it in this order, because it spoils Sigzil's arc. And surprise, most of us didn't, the author intended us to read these in the, seemingly, reverse order, and that was fun too, just different. Ever since I saw how Brandon gets annoyed with some folks insisting on very strict reading orders, I wonder if he didn't publish "The Sunlit Man" this way entirely on purpose, to tease us and that approach.

I'm really glad it was off-screen. It gave it the shroud of mystery, some terrifying quality that spelling out the details would take away from. The shock of seeing the outcome without knowing what in Damnation had happened, that was more awesome than any fight scene could be. And we'll sure still get to see some of Taln's in a more appropriate moment.

Personally, I think this is definitely something at least some characters should strongly suspect. At the same time, I think we're going with the ~20% probability route (number made up) that they won't. Day 10 epigraphs seem pretty set on a version of events where Kaladin died and Heralds are likely destroyed, and that book is written with Jasnah's involvement. I expect we'll go by rule of cool here: it'll be too good of a scene to have a completely surprise return. Maybe some characters will be like "I KNEW IT" right after the fact, but will still be shocked initially.

I don't really get it either. Time dilation doesn't really play in their favour, since time on Roshar is going to pass on quicker. So if it's about stopping and healing damage done to Roshar, and they can come back whenever, they should ideally return immediately and lay low somewhere for a year or two, so that it doesn't mean 10-15 years passing for the rest of Roshar while they heal. Also, Ishar mentioned it might be "centuries" before they return. Why would it be, if it's only about them deciding whenever they feel ready? I highly doubt Ishar expected they might seriously need to chill and get therapy for a few hundred years. At some point, idleness will bring more harm than good, especially for people already too ancient for their own good. So I believe there either must be a different trigger, or additional consequences to their return.

There's a ton of all sorts of references and symmetry between the first and last book - as is only proper - how about we hunt them all down? To start, off the top of my head: Prelude and postlude. In its entirety, but also both are Kalak's POV and with the Windrunner Herald at the center, and of course with reverse outcomes. In WoK, Kaladin is the common spearman, and kills a Shardbearer at a disadvantage. In WaT, Adolin gets a taste of both. Later, Maya mirrors Kaladin by gathering the deadeyes and getting them ready to fight and save the day (like Bridge Four at the Tower). She's doing better thanks to Adolin, as Kaladin did thanks to Syl. "The Way of Kings" is there at both the beginning, and the end of Dalinar's journey. Kaladin gives Nale a very similar flute+story treatment as he received from Wit in WoK. Cusicesh made his first appearance in a WoK interlude, and now a (somewhat definite) last in WaT interlude (and none in between that I remember). Death rattles appear first as epigraphs at the beginning of WoK, now return as chapter titles at the end of WaT (also they just get fulfilled, but that's not exclusive to WaT). Tanavast says he died at the end of WaK; At the end of WaT, what remains of him actually dies for good. Dalinar spends most of each book having visions. Dalinar beats up Elhokar towards the end of WoK; now he is set up to fight against his son at the end of WaT. Listeners start WoK settled in Narak, and end WaT again there, after a break. The situations of humans and singers in general are reversed (dominated by enemies aside from an enclave or two). First Radiants say their Oaths in WoK; first Radiants renounce their Oaths in WaT.

For me it all clicked. There was no possible candidate that would have worked as someone having their own arc of becoming an OC champion. The only character that made sense to me before WaT was Adolin, but then he wouldn't fit too well with themes of this book being so much about second chances, and accepting mistakes both in oneself and in others. The only answer then was that the OC doesn't matter - at least as a literary character. The contest is, in the end, between Dalinar and Taravangian, full stop. I really liked how that played out with Gavinor doing just a few streaks for show, all easily avoided by Dalinar, and then got frozen for the rest of the "contest". He's Taravangian's prop, a mirror for Dalinar to look into, and he got just the amount of setup and development that a prop needs. It sounds heartless, but I'm not mad about treating him like this, as yes - I don't care about Gavinor. I don't think we were ever meant to. It could have been any other innocent, but it wouldn't prove all the same points. It forces Dalinar to think if he'd spare him because he's an innocent, or because he's his grandson. In the end, this is not much unlike what Taravangian did to Jasnah, and I like this consistency in approach. Edit: One more reason why this choice makes sense for Taravangian, is that he's looking for understanding. He's looking for validation for what he did to Kharbranth and his own grandkids, that this is what any king should do. And he comes for it to someone whom, as he says, he respects and considers a friend. Taravangian doesn't choose a conundrum that would be most relevant to Dalinar, but a conundrum most relevant to himself.

That's the reason I'd still like this addressed, even though I'm largely at peace with this topic after WaT. That scene is a glimpse of a dark streak in Adolin. Whether you agree that Sadeas had to be killed on the spot or not, Adolin still takes too much pleasure in the act for it not to be considered dark. That's not to say he's a villain, or I think he should become one (I did before WaT, but I respect and enjoyed the journey he got instead - finally). Every character, every human has that streak. Even Paladin-Kaladin almost fell to Odium when leveraged properly. I don't fully buy that Odium wouldn't at least try to use that streak - even if he'd fail - as Adolin is in such a good place to do a lot of damage if swayed. That's just not too smart of Todium. Even less smart of Rayse if he had Moash next on his OC list (what a fail after trying for Dalinar and Kaladin). But I can headcanon that Rayse is just that uninspired, and that Taravangian was just too occupied with trying to break Dalinar and Jasnah. He also might not have seen any direct need for recruiting Adolin given his specific idea for the contest, and probably was also way too confident about taking Azimir. I also like how Adolin mentions somewhere in this book that "a better man would have found another solution". TBH, that's all I'd needed from him at this point to acknowledge. Because yes, given the journeys of some other characters, who came face to face with someone dangerous who deserved to die, and they still made other choices, it's important to acknowledge that this wasn't the peak possible journey. But then comes in Jasnah's debate and leaves one more inconsistency. All this time one of the core arguments was that Sadeas murder is no darker than what she did in that alley. But now that did come back eventually to bite her. Dalinar beating up Elhokar, also something that seemed necessary and fine at the point, even less dark, just maybe a tad too violent, it came back to bite him now, 4 books later. None of these choices was even condemned by the narrative as immoral in the process, but it constructed a theme of violence having long-running consequences regardless. So Sadeas murdes still bugs me a bit as a hole in this theme.

Wow, this is a lot. Some great points, I need to digest it though. One question - why do you think Hoid's Dawnshard is Change? It doesn't seem to tie well to its description of being directly opposed to violence.

Is it possible that Tanavast himself participated in it somehow? That would tie in with the Recreance being a well-intended decision gone wrong. But the main thing that makes me think so is that if his cognitive shadow lives within Stormfather, and if he killed him against his will, I'd expect there to be some intense internal turmoil and inconsistency in how Stormfather behaves as these two entities at one.

I think Dalinar did much worse things than Adolin. At the same time, Dalinar has since turned his life by 180, while Adolin hasn't significantly changed. It's a strong theme of SA that it doesn't matter where you start, or even how low you fall, but where you go from there. Another strong theme is idealism vs utilitarianism. We can see it in the Radiant oaths - starting from "Journey above destination" - and in most characters' arcs, that the former is usually the right choice for the characters. Those who do the honourable thing, even if seemingly unpractical, are portrayed positively and often their actions lead to a greater unforeseen gain. Those who align with utilitarianism - well, they become Odium. Just look at Moash, he had damn good reasons to kill Elhokar, including the good of the whole kingdom, and where did that get him? And where did the opposite decision get Kaladin? Everyone can have their own opinion on these matters, and I believe that sparking such discussion was one of the series' intentions. At the same time, in the moral conflict between Adolin and Dalinar, there is a clear preference in the narrative towards the qualities displayed by Dalinar. (And if only killing Sadeas was at least such an obvious practical gain. If Adolin got exposed, the outcome wouldn't be rosy for the Kholins. Not to mention Amaram wasn't any better as a Highprince. We'll never know if they wouldn't come with a safer way to get rid of this danger.)

So that's another question about what the duel is going to be about. I'd imagine it must be at least to some extent defined by something bigger, Cosmere, the nature of the Shards or the Oaths, whatever. Because if the weapon can be chosen, then why wouldn't anyone on the protagonists' side even think to negotiate this part for the contract? And if Odium can just choose whatever mode of the challenge he can, from a huge range of physical to philosophical, and won't even let Dalinar know until the Champions meet, what's even the point? He can decide it's gonna be a contest of crocheting and voila, Dalinar's toast. No, I don't see how Odium could get to freely choose how he fights Dalinar and this all still makes sense. And if he doesn't, the change of the vessel shouldn't dramatically change what the fight is going to be about.

To be honest, I am really at a loss to how this contest will look. Because this version makes a lot of sense. It's a bit too similar to another ending Brandon wrote but it's heavily implied that it's going to be some sort of a philosophical contest, and it makes more sense than a physical fight. That said, why then Odium prepared Dalinar to be his Champion, and did it the way he did? Of all people, he picked one strongest physically, and not terribly promising intellectually at the time, and then he focused on making him go berserk and nearly losing his mind. If he was prepping for a debate, not the wisest choice. Another thing is: if the contest is to the death, Taravangian would have to be 10000% sure that he's going to win to risk his life.

Between all the arguments about how Adolin won't possibly agree to be the OC and fight his father, there's one detail missing: this will not be the question. Remember how Odium nearly turned Dalinar to be his OC. That whole battle of minds wasn't about whether Dalinar would agree to fight for Odium. He never would. But it was about whether Dalinar would admit that Odium was the one responsible for his crimes. This was a so much harder question and not an obvious one at all. It was so easy to rationalise it; he was, after all, directly targeted and under the influence of an Unmade. Many good people in his situation would agree that they were not fully accountable. But if he did, we know it would somehow make him Odium's puppet. And then, as a consequence of that, he'd virtually no longer have a choice but to fight for him. Odium doesn't ask: "will you be my Champion". He asks: "do you accept me as someone who directs your decisions". And he does it in the most sneaky and tempting way, specially crafted for the individual he targets. Adolin chooses anger. He doesn't want reconciliation, he lets his rage fester. In that he allows something of Odium control him. And that is a dangerous path to follow.

There was never any hard evidence (understandably), but there was possible foreshadowing on a similar level as this passage. Just lately someone pointed out to me RoW chapter 21. Not only Adolin and Dalinar have there a heated discussion that shows the same anger Adolin has towards Dalinar, but they argue specifically about how Adolin might think too much like, of all people, Taravangian. It'd be perfect as foreshadowing, because it's so easy to miss on first read, and gets a whole new dimension on reread. As for possibility, well, since Kaladin almost succumbed to Odium in RoW, I'm convinced it's possible for almost anyone to become OC, as long as Odium sets his eyes on them, and has the smallest lever which he can start pulling.

Maybe that's why he'll need to do an impression of Edgedancer oaths!

Now I think another key thing is how the author calls spren: I guess we can remove at least most (all?) Radiants out of the list, I can't imagine someone with the bond would refer to Spren as things. Now why in the world would Kaladin need to emulate an Edgedancer? Maybe because they're all the way on the other side of the Honor-Cultivation spectrum of Radiants? I don't think he'll ascend combining Honor & Cultivation (I don't think anybody will for that matter - too repetitive), but it smells of something in this area.

How fitting, first step to becoming a Bondsmith is to be really relentless about forging a bond.

That makes me wonder if whatever is happening to Heralds' mental health is magically enhanced too, and if that in turn can be hereditary. We have at least one hint in the preview chapters that Radiant may be different (I think I've seen another but can't remember now):