[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[IndigoAjah he/him]

31 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

Just a wild unrelated thought. 

Ever since we learned Odium is passion, I couldn't help but cringe at Shallan's remarks about Kaladin. It's like he would make a pretty good influence target or alternative vessel for the shard. 

I think every Radiant we've met would be on some levels (they are all by definition "broken"), but the attempt would be doomed to fail on other levels

[Ailvara]

2 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

I think every Radiant we've met would be on some levels (they are all by definition "broken"), but the attempt would be doomed to fail on other levels

I didn't mean him being broken, but passionate. 

[Willow]

46 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

Jasnah very nearly killed her cousin/brother-in-law 

can i just repeat that

she very nearly killed renarin. 

How's feather holding up with that, anyway? 

This was probably a more stressfull moment for me than when Dalinar almost became Odium's Champion, since I had a feeling he'd pull through. I didn't think Jasnah would want to kill Renarin, but that she might think she had to. I'm glad she didn't do it, especially since it turns out that Jasnah and Renarin were close when they were younger, since neither of them really fit in with Alethi society.

On a similar note, there was this WoB floating around that Adolin was jealous of Renarin (though I can't find it right now). I used to think that both Dalinar and Evi were very worried about him, and Adolin felt jealous of all the attention. But now that we've seen Adolin and Renarin's youth in Dalinar's flashbacks, this doesn't quite work anymore. Dalinar mostly disregarded his son up until, as far as I can tell, he went to the Nightwatcher. So Adolin was probably jealous of Evi, who went to stay with Renarin in Kholinar for half the year, while he stayed with Dalinar throughout the year. This also means that, for half the year, Renarin probably stayed with Gavilar, Navani and Jasnah, making this whole situation in Pailiah's temple even more heartbreaking.

[Darvys]

@Willow It could be that the rest of the family, seeing how Dalinar neglected one of his sons tried to compensate by doting on Renarin, which a young Adolin, not really understanding the reason behind it, could have been envious of.

11 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

I didn't mean him being broken, but passionate. 

I think he'll focus on Moash next, i reread his scenes to fuel my hatred and noticed that he keeps repeating that what he did wasn't his fault, they made him do it, he had to let go ... Same things Odium kept repeating to Dalinar when he wanted him to succumb, so i figure he's been shaping Moash as well in part of the book. Kaladin is beyond him, he'll go for the moron instead.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Darvys

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I wasn't too worried for Kaladin succumbing to Odium this book. Partly because he was in a really good (for him) headspace with Shallan and Adolin. Shallan brings light to him, and Adolin just makes him more stable and looks after his mental health. Also, since it became obvious Dalinar was pointed to be the champion I was mainly concerned with him. I ended up thinking it would be Dalinar as Odium's champion and Szeth as Honor's. Happy how it ended up going instead .

11 minutes ago, Darvys said:

I think he'll focus on Moash next, i reread his scenes to fuel my hatred and noticed that he keeps repeating that what he did wasn't his fault, they made him do it, he had to let go ... Same things Odium kept repeating to Dalinar when he wanted him to succumb, so i figure he's been shaping Moash as well in part of the book. Kaladin is beyond him, he'll go for the moron instead.

There are not enough upvotes for this post. Moash felt "wrong" to me from book 1. He always put me on edge. Really good to see I read his character/Brandon's cues so well since the start .

Also, I'm almost amazed Adolin and Renarin are as healthy emotionally as they are, since their relationship with Dalinar (specially Renarin) when they were children was bordering abusive.

 

[Jess]

12 hours ago, Ryshadium said:

I made a separate post, but it was suggested to discuss here. So... the interludes in this book flummoxed me and I would be curious what others thought of them. I had a hard time connecting most of them to anything relevant overall, but I’m certain I’m missing something. 

I had the opposite reaction; they seemed a bit too connected to the main plot and thus not "interludey."

1. Puuli - The least connected of the interludes. The Natanatan myths about sailors from the origin with Light in their pockets, who come to destroy, is fascinating. It's probably foreshadowing but of what I can't say.

2. Ellista - Seems unconnected at first but those Dawnchant translations come back to discredit Dalinar.

3. Kaza - The Sleepless aren't big players in the main plot yet, but Brandon's definitely in the process of introducing them to us. And I bet that Oathgate will come into play sometime in the future.

4. Taravangian - He's a major character, nuff said. Also directly foreshadows his agreement with Odium at the end of the book.

5. Mem - Ends with Mraize telling Ash about Taln.

6. Sheler - This one isn't that relevant but it does show the Alethi being displaced by the Parsh on a large-scale, and the effect on bordering nations.

7. Rysn - The theft of King's Drop is a pretty big plot point.

8. Teft - Another significant plot point: theft of the Honorblade. Also, without Teft's arc, Kaladin would have died.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

11 minutes ago, Jess said:

1. Puuli - The least connected of the interludes. The Natanatan myths about sailors from the origin with Light in their pockets, who come to destroy, is fascinating. It's probably foreshadowing but of what I can't say

Seanchan incoming! Wrong book . I mean Wandersailers incoming!

11 minutes ago, Jess said:

Rysn - The theft of King's Drop is a pretty big plot point

Also, how dumb is that if Odium had left that gemstone well alone our guys wouldn't have:

1. Known the gem was important

2. Been able to trap the unmade of the thrill

3. Had a ton of gemstones nearby to recharge and hold Thaylen city

Edited November 16, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Hemalurgist]

Odium was probably worried someone might know about the gem stone. I think it was included in the radiant records in the epigraphs though not specifically how it could be used. What I am confused about is why he didn't destroy the gem.

[Mondaysjelly]

3 minutes ago, Hemalurgist said:

Odium was probably worried someone might know about the gem stone. I think it was included in the radiant records in the epigraphs though not specifically how it could be used. What I am confused about is why he didn't destroy the gem.

It is probable that knowing the potential of the gem, he might have wanted it to trap one of the godsprens. Trap the Stormfather or Nightwatcher maybe?

[Vissy]

Well, this book was great. I seriously thought that Dalinar would succumb to Odium. Brandon hinted at that from the very beginning after all.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Some more random thoughts I don't think I've written yet.

I was amazed at how easy it was for squires to become KR. Clearly the journey our protagonists had to go through fighting every inch was not normal by a hair. Knowing the Oaths, knowing what you had to do, and having spren around and a knight to support you made it all so smooth.

Lopen's spren is going to love Lift. And vice versa. Actually Lopen and Lift could be bffs easily. Poor Wyndle would the the odd man out there. 

Did anyone else wonder why couldn't Szeth just stick Nightblood in Thrill-Unmade while Dalinar summoned the perpendicularity? No need to trap the thrill maker, just kill it .

Syl's special status explained so much. It would have been a bit odd if the Stormfather was so protective of all honorspren. Also explains the Stormfather's push pull treatmeant of Kaladin. He is after all the man to elope with his only daughter  

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard
Wrong Unmade name

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

2 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Nah. I always saw Amaram for what he pursued, not what he spouted: he wanted power. He preached Vorinism because it was the conduit around to give him most power. Odium appeared with even more power so he jumped to the train with more power. Not surprising.

I guess we read him very differently. I've always seen him as a True Believer; it's like if a fundamentalist Christian character suddenly turns up working for Satan.

1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Also, how dumb is that if Odium had left that gemstone well alone our guys wouldn't have:

1. Known the gem was important

2. Been able to trap the unmade of the thrill

3. Had a ton of gemstones nearby to recharge and hold Thaylen city

That's why I think Odium wanted it for something else, and Dalinar just happen to figure out a way to use it for himself.

Quote

I think he'll focus on Moash next, i reread his scenes to fuel my hatred and noticed that he keeps repeating that what he did wasn't his fault, they made him do it, he had to let go ... Same things Odium kept repeating to Dalinar when he wanted him to succumb, so i figure he's been shaping Moash as well in part of the book. Kaladin is beyond him, he'll go for the moron instead.

I think Moash is gone, the one it made me think about was Szeth. At the end of WoR, Nin tells Szeth that it wasn't really his fault that he became a murderer, it was the Stone Shamans' fault. And part of Szeth knows that Kaladin was right, he could have stopped any time, but Szeth decided to accept Nin's rationalization.

Nale, of course, has gone over to the other side. And I'm worried Szeth will be the next target.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

2 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Nale, of course, has gone over to the other side. And I'm worried Szeth will be the next target.

The skybreakers are odd. They make sense usually, but an odd sense. I honestly believe that they will continue visiting and training Szeth even if they are on different sides, and they won't do it with any ulterior motive. Just see each other as fellow skybreakers following their Oaths and respect each other for it. Szeth is probably the character closest to Honor in all SA. I don't think he has ever broken an Oath. Not even the silly or hard ones. 

Szeth's fate is right now fully on Dalinar's hands. Szeth can't bear to be on the driver seat of his life so has passed the wheel to Dalinar. Whether he drives him to Honor, Odium, Cultivation, redemption or something else will depend on Dalinar more than anyone/anything else. No pressure there . Sigh, their chat is probably the most missed thing for me in OB. 

[Darvys]

5 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

I think Moash is gone, the one it made me think about was Szeth. At the end of WoR, Nin tells Szeth that it wasn't really his fault that he became a murderer, it was the Stone Shamans' fault. And part of Szeth knows that Kaladin was right, he could have stopped any time, but Szeth decided to accept Nin's rationalization.

Nale, of course, has gone over to the other side. And I'm worried Szeth will be the next target.

I'm not worried about Szeth, I have a suspicion that Nale followed the same path when he bonded a highspren, vowing to follow Ishar as his third oath, since he assumed he was the least affected by their time in damnation. Whereas Ishar could have abused that position to steer Nale toward Odium, i think Dalinar will be able to keep Szeth grounded and help him take the step he himself took in this book, in accepting the burden of his past crimes.

[MoS03]

The ending of the Szeth story arc was.... not there.  I feel like we missed a lot with him, but I did enjoy his scenes with Lift.

[Darvys]

34 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I was amazed at how easy it was for squires to become KR. Clearly the journey our protagonists had to go through fighting every inch was not normal by a hair. Knowing the Oaths, knowing what you had to do, and having spren around and a knight to support you made it all so smooth.

Yeah, this is why Szeth's fellow squires and the two acolytes back in Edgedancer felt like second class Knights Radiant, at least with Bridge 4 they shared part of the journey so they got to appreciate and internalize the Ideals, they're not being spoon fed and still struggling to keep up.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Darvys

[IndigoAjah he/him]

3 hours ago, Ailvara said:

I didn't mean him being broken, but passionate. 

Kal is master of his passion. His compassion, less so

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

By the way. Where was Rlain after his pov? He has a potential huge role, yet he was barely shown. I get he was probably semi-hidden as someone might try to kill him if away from Bridge 4, but his complete dissappeareance? Wasn't he going to talk to Kaladin about how he felt alone in the world? What happened then? I so wanted him to try to suck in stormlight as a squire .

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

So how many people followed the Tor reread of Edgedancer? Journey before pancakes, indeed.

[Blacksmithki]

Well, i finished this book almost exactly 24 hours after sitting at my front door waiting for the mail, so 10 hours of reading time, and, WOW.

It appears Venli is our first parshendi radiant

Moash is now a traitor

I like the contrast between the symbol at the top of the chapter for both Dalinar and Dalinar flashbacks, one being white, one being black.

I honestly thought there that Dalinar was going to end up being Odium's champion there

Were those epigraph letters possibly Wit trying to get help from other shards?

Lopen. Need i say more? Every. Single. Thing. (him saying the second ideal by accident made me laugh)

Rock is willing to kill for Kaladin

Anyone else think Szeth swore to obey Lift at first?

What happened to the thunderclast under the ocean that Odium mentioned? The one larger then the others?

Anyone else think that the diagram might have been made in such a brilliant way that it's goal is to intentionally fail and help our radiants? it's actually done that a fair few times so far with Kaladin progressing due to it, and seemingly brilliant T left a hidden message that Odium can't see.

[flying_shadow she/her]

6 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

Were those epigraph letters possibly Wit trying to get help from other shards?

Yes. It appears that he's writing to pretty much everyone, asking for help.

Quote

Anyone else think Szeth swore to obey Lift at first?

We can only wish.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Kalinovsky

[IndigoAjah he/him]

57 minutes ago, Blacksmithki said:

 

Anyone else think that the diagram might have been made in such a brilliant way that it's goal is to intentionally fail and help our radiants? it's actually done that a fair few times so far with Kaladin progressing due to it, and seemingly brilliant T left a hidden message that Odium can't see.

Quite possibly 

[TySun he/him]

I finished the book in two long days staying up until 3 am on busy work days.  I’m glad I already had a head start with having read part 1 on Tor.com.  I’m not going to reread it right away though.  I’m going to wait a while and then get the audiobook, so I can reread it properly (without skimming the interludes or less exciting parts, just because I wanted to get to the next Kaladin, or Shallan, or Dalinar, or whoevers last chapter stopped at a bit of a cliffhanger.)  That said, here are my thoughts on the book….

First off, I loved Lift and Dalinars first meeting, both in the vision, and physically face to face.  Both scenes were hilarious, and Lift predictably eats Dalinars lunch.  I’d have been disappointed if she hadn’t, though it seems Sanderson went too obviously out of his way for her to get the opportunity to eat it.  Dalinar was visiting the Emperor’s Palace for goodness sake.  Obviously, such a place would offer refreshment and something to eat for a high ranking person without even being asked.  Why bring lunch? So Lift can steal it, of course.  Still a fun scene.  I wanted to see Dalinars reaction to her eating his lunch with her Shardfork though. 

I definitely didn’t think Elhokar would really fail in taking Kholinar, much less get killed while trying.  I was cheering for him to learn how to be a better king.  He was improving but I was a bit disappointed that he died, though not really sad.  I wonder why it was so important for Wit (Hoid) to rescue what I presume is the Pattern spren that may have been in the process of bonding with Elhokar.  And did Wit bond that spren? He started speaking the first Ideal, though he didn’t finish it.

I’m glad the love triangle resolved itself peacefully.  I hate love triangles.  Now we need Kaladin to find someone special so that the “what if’s” don’t haunt him.

I was right about the Dawnsingers and the Listeners being one and the same.  I always assumed that Odium came to Roshar on his own, after the humans, Dawnsingers, Cultivation, and Honor had already settled in, and that the Desolations started after Odium arrived and gave the Dawnsingers new forms turning them into Voidbringers.  I was wrong there.  But I think the arriving humans must have been surgebinding using Voidlight instead of stormlight if Odium was their god.

There are so many scenes that I would have loved to see at the end.  Szeths first meeting with Dalinar and/or Kaladin.  Kaladin killed him after all and has to have been wondering what's going on.  Jasnah’s reaction to becoming queen. Nalan’s reaction to Jezrien’s death.  If he suspects the parshmen had something to do with it….. I would have wanted to see his reaction and what that reaction would be.

Moash…… I hate him, I hate him, I hate him!!!!!!!

Same with Taravangian.  It seems he is set in his belief that if he can’t be in charge of saving the world, then the world can’t be saved.

We got to view a letter from Sazed (Harmony) to Hoid.  I will be interested to see where that leads.

What is it with so many from Nalthis being in Roshar?  We have Vashar, Nightblood, and Azure, and the man at the lighthouse in Shadesmar asked Kaladin what Heightening he has achieved when he realized Kaladin is invested, so I assume he’s from there too.  I also wonder if Azure’s blade is awakened or was it created another way.  Hoid was also showing off awakening in the epilogue, though we knew he had at least achieved the second Heightening from what he said to Kaladin in prison in WoR.  And I am pretty sure Azure was using Awakening to fight the Fused after Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin left the honorspren boat.  I wish we could have read that scene.

 

Those are some of my thoughts and ramblings.  I really loved the book and easily give it 5 stars.  Book 4 now please!?!?!?  

Edited November 17, 2017 by TySun

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

46 minutes ago, TySun said:

What is it with so many from Nalthis being in Roshar?  We have Vashar, Nightblood, and Azure, and the man at the lighthouse in Shadesmar asked Kaladin what Heightening he has achieved when he realized Kaladin is invested, so I assume he’s from there too. 

Nope, Lighthouse Guy is from Sel. He has an Aon-type name and says "Merciful Domi!" Probably asks about Heightenings because Kal obviously isn't an Elantrian, and no one thinks the KR are back.

[KnightGradient]

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.