[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[Dahak he/him]

3 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

By the way. Where was Rlain after his pov? He has a potential huge role, yet he was barely shown. I get he was probably semi-hidden as someone might try to kill him if away from Bridge 4, but his complete dissappeareance? Wasn't he going to talk to Kaladin about how he felt alone in the world? What happened then? I so wanted him to try to suck in stormlight as a squire .

He was there at the big glowing practice. Rock sent Renarin over to keep him company.

[IndigoAjah he/him]

2 minutes ago, KnightGradient said:

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

Except I'm pretty sure Odium intends to do some nasty stuff to the remaining humans and the worst world of all so far has had its Shard brutally murdered (Threnody). Scadrial has improved with its Shards united. Shards can be good or bad. They are in the end people.

 

Humans are bad. We know this, we are humans. But they can also be good and wonderful. Odium is so clearly bad news for anyone ever. He doesn't care. He pretends. He needs people to give in to him to have true power over them. 

 

And i think there is a lot to go that we do not know with the backstory.

 

But yes, I can see where the Parshendi anger comes from. That doesn't excuse Odium's plan, or the Fused.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Overall I loved the book (Hey I even wrote a review on it with my advance copy I received on the 2nd of November).

Important Bits:

Kaladin really didn't get a lot of love this book, but that's okay. We got to learn a ton more about Syl instead. 

Jasnah didn't get a whole lot of love in this book, but those scenes where she was the PoV. damnation....

Navani seemed more of a backpiece in this entry than in the last couple. 

Elokhar, I was really growing to like the character.... Dammit.

Taravangian is quickly becoming one of my more hated characters. I don't like him, he's a manipulative bastard who is arrogant enough to believe he alone can save the world. 

All the Bridge 4 scenes were amazing, especially Tefts and Rocks. Rocks family showing up was awesome.

Shallan overall was interesting this book if only because of her multiple personas taking on a very increased role. 

Not enough Vasher, but it was really cool to see Vivenna show up as Azure. It's pretty obvious she has a true awakened blade that isn't a complete failure like Nightblood as well.

Nightblood and Szeth's interactions were great.

Moash really disappointed me. He's another character I'm quickly growing to hate as well.

Dalinar, wasn't expecting his past to be quite like that. It's interesting to see him grow over the course of his flashbacks into who we meet in Way of Kings.

My absolute favorite bit though was that I loved Hoid and Shallans interactions. I feel like he's quickly becoming a father figure to her in ways that her own father never was. Frankly I'd love to see this aspect of their relationship improved on in the future. 

Venli, I didn't like her in Words of Radiance, but damnation if she didn't step up in Oathbringer. Pity about Eshonai though.

Points I'm unsure about:

Was that Galladon in the lighthouse in Shadesmar? Definitely a person from Sel though. That Blessed Domi comment gives it away. Speaking of Shadesmar they apparently trade with Nalthis quite frequently if they had goods from the Court of the Gods.

The third letter confused the hell out of me. It seemed like it was multitude of responses to a letter Hoid sent out to all the shardholders. I could be wrong though.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Windborne Sword

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

4 minutes ago, Windborne Sword said:

The third letter confused the hell out of me. It seemed like it was multitude of responses to a letter Hoid sent out to all the shardholders. I could be wrong though.

I think Hoid sent out letters to all the other Shards asking for help with Odium, and we got to see three of them. The third one was from Harmony; your guess is as good as mine for the first two.

[Hischier]

On November 14, 2017 at 1:10 AM, SLNC said:

Least favorite (minor) plotline: The "love triangle". This might sound bitter from me, but please don't mistake it as that. I have nothing against Adolin and Shallan getting together, but I am afraid, that their relationship will remain as bland and shallow as it is right now. In my eyes, it is unrealistically perfect and boring to read. Shallan's constant swooning about Adolin and Veil's swooning about Kaladin (though not as frequent) was really one of the worst things in this book, often leaving me with rolling eyes. The Kaladin/Shallan side of this "triangle" was only marginally explored and ended with plenty of assumptions on Shallan's side. I'll delve deeper into my thoughts in a specific thread, but I think that whole thing could have been just left out.

 

This was probably my main irritation with the book. I was mildly disappointed about Shallan and Adolin ending up together (not going to get into that). But forgetting that, the whole thing just seemed kind of unnecessary. If you're not even going to explore the other side of it, why even bother with it? It wasn't really important to the plot in any way and didn't really have any pay off. I wonder if a few scenes got cut out that would've made that arc make more sense because the extent of the conflict being 'she gave Kaladin 'do me' eyes' is pretty lame both from Shallan's perspective as an inner conflict and definitely from Adolin's perspective considering he's known for having a wandering eye.  

[rush]

I'll be honest, on the whole, I was underwhelmed. But I think that can happen when you spend this long building something up in your head. However, there were a few chapters that literally had me in tears:

Teft. Brandon's description of addiction and Teft's situation was perfect. Teft's self-loathing (especially and even after his spren wanted to bond) was as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced externally. 

Shallan and Wit. The back and forth between the two that led to her taking the first step in owning her pain was so good. Such a good conversation. And of course Witn had clever comments.  

Honorable mentions are Dalinar finally not hiding from his pain and past, Elhokar psyching up to be a Radiant, and Kaladin's breakdown after Kholinar.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

1 minute ago, rush said:

Teft. Brandon's description of addiction and Teft's situation was perfect. Teft's self-loathing (especially and even after his spren wanted to bond) was as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced externally. 

Shallan and Wit. The back and forth between the two that led to her taking the first step in owning her pain was so good. Such a good conversation. And of course Wit had clever comments.  

Regarding Teft: I deal with severe depression, borderline crippling (I barely function and can't work a regular job due to it). This was a really accurate description of how it feels for me on a day to day basis. At least the part of me that hates myself and wants to give up. 

For Shallan and Hoid, it was probably one of my favorite parts of the book. I love how Shallan is almost always happy to see Hoid. Hoid treats her almost like a daughter or granddaughter, or so it seems to me.

[Shadowmancer he/him]

23 minutes ago, rush said:

Teft. Brandon's description of addiction and Teft's situation was perfect. Teft's self-loathing (especially and even after his spren wanted to bond) was as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced externally.

I loved Teft. That character ... wow. I bawled when I saw him finally accept himself, broken as he was, and decide to start standing up for himself against himself. Sanderson did it so well. My own addictions, my own self-loathing, when I beat them back even if only for a moment -- it does not feel as heroic and majestic as this. Seeing it happen with someone else, I finally got a glimpse of how heroic and majestic it actually is. I sobbed like a child.

Dalinar's acceptance of his pain and his past, fighting against Odium's offer to take it away, take away responsibility and pain, was also one of the most heroic things I've ever seen. Did anyone else get major Star Treck vibes a la "The Final Frontier," with Sybok as Odium and Dalinar as Kirk? "I need my pain" vs "You cannot have my pain." Wow. This was the other scene I cried at.

I at first felt disappointed that Kaladin didn't swear the fourth ideal, but now I see it was brilliance on Sanderson's part. It would feel cheap to have him come by it without effort. Showing him in this crucial moment, then taking away his deus ex machina because no matter how badly he needs to save people he simply can't -- that is going to make it mean so much more when he finally does swear it. Whatever it is, I'm sure it has something to do with letting go of the people he cannot save.

Lastly, I think we finally saw Hemalurgy used outside of Scadrial. No wonder even Vessels have been scared Witless over it.

So now we know why the Recreance happened, but not why Honor and Cultivation agreed to accept a new god among them. I still believe they did it as a way to trap him and keep him from destroying the rest of the Cosmere. But how did he get there in the first place? Did he create humans somewhere else while he wasn't going around Splintering up every shard in sight? It likely happened sometime after, and I'm 90% positive that he did create these humans since Dalinar is referred to as a Child of Odium by the Nightwatcher, but what planet did he Invest in to create them? And why did he choose to save some? Or did they flee him, but by virtue of being his creations bring him with them? And how and when exactly did the switch occur when men adopted Honor and Cultivation as their gods, and Odium became the god of the parshmen? The Listeners claimed their gods abandoned them for men; were those gods the Unmade, or Honor and Cultivation?

So many questions. So much excitement. I need the next book, Brandon! But this one was sooooo worth the wait.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Shadowmancer

[TySun he/him]

1 hour ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Nope, Lighthouse Guy is from Sel. He has an Aon-type name and says "Merciful Domi!" Probably asks about Heightenings because Kal obviously isn't an Elantrian, and no one thinks the KR are back.

I haven't read either Elantris or Warbreaker for long time. Time for a reread soon.  I remember reading that curse but I didn't remember it as an Elantrian curse.

 

1 hour ago, KnightGradient said:

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

Umm, remember that Odium was the humans deity when they came to Roshar and were named voidbringers.  The Voidbringers are basiclly the ones fighting for Odium. Although, it might be true that Passion name fits better academically, I think when Odium showed Dalinar his power, Dalinar saw more hate then any other emotion.  And Ruin was just as capable of acting nice as Odium, though you are right that Ruin probably would have taken immediate advantage where Odium allowed Dalinar to reconsider.  It isn't the parshmen who are the bad guys here, it is their leaders.  This is what this book makes clear to me.  The parshmen just can't or won't switch sides because the other side had enslaved and abused their kind.  The enemy here is Odium and those who follow him, be they human, listener, or spen.

[Islington]

Finally people will stop saying "Love triangle". Unless Adolin and Kaladin are having private spear lessons, it's a love angle not triangle. 

 

Also, I don't like all the Cosmere stuff here. I trust Brandon enough to suspend my dislike, so to speak, but I felt there was a little too much "Heh, get it?" in this one. 

 

First question when Dalinar used Adhesion to stick the realms together: Can he make new Honorblades? That'd be useful. 

 

Jasnah was an absolute beast during the final confrontation. I always knew Elsecallers would be buckwild in a fight. Especially when they're Super Saiyan. And queen? Hell ya. 

 

Overall, I liked it. A lot of revelations I didn't expect to see till the back 5, given traditional fantasy book pacing. 

[Seonid he/him]

20 minutes ago, Islington said:

Also, I don't like all the Cosmere stuff here. I trust Brandon enough to suspend my dislike, so to speak, but I felt there was a little too much "Heh, get it?" in this one. 

Which Cosmere stuff in particular bothered you?

[Jess]

3 hours ago, KnightGradient said:

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion?

1 hour ago, TySun said:

Although, it might be true that Passion name fits better academically, I think when Odium showed Dalinar his power, Dalinar saw more hate then any other emotion.

While I'm all for Odium being a more complex antagonist than just pointless hatred, his claim to represent Passion does not sit right with me. I would expect a true Passion shard to revel in life, in the drives and emotions of people. But Odium is angling to kill most of the humans on Roshar. All that passion (and he himself says that passion "defines men"!), extinguished.

In fact, we see on-screen Odium encouraging people to dull their passion... by feeding it to him. A Passion shard would not only be passionate themself, but fan the fires of everyone else's passion too, positive and negative. But Odium? Give me your pain, don't blame yourself, you don't have to hurt, never feel guilty again. Moash outright states he has no passion, only numbness. Leshwi responds, "You have given him your pain."

This tactical, seductive draining away of negative emotions is not the act of a shard that truly values passion. Passion is a tool to Odium. He feeds off it and uses its power. But it is not his Intent. He is "[t]he empty pit that sucks in emotion" (Ch. 111), dangerously disguised as emotion itself.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Jess

[Kurkistan he/him]

My contributions, cribbed from my "see I totally got that pretty fast" notes and other random impressions:

• From the Dalinar flashbacks: Ah ye-olde anti-Shardbearer weaponry. Brings back the good old days. Nets/ropes and whatnot attached to projectiles didn't occur to us, IIRC.
• Mraize's chicken: If that's not an aviar... Well okay it's just an aviar. Let's all accept that.
• Shallan is not in a good place. [This general sentiment basically persists from me through the entire book]
• Heraldic symoblism seemed a bit scattershot this time. Usually I can parse the chapter header symbols pretty well, but here it seemed like there was a lot of "well everyone's being Dependable/Resourcful, so let's slap Taln's face up there"
• I'm calling it that the strange glass panes and the discs in the floor/ceiling in chapter 24 are for video conferencing and mini-oathgating, respectively.
• Chapter 38 (the Last Desolation vision): Okay maybe too much of an infodump.
• I'm surprised we never had to have an awkward conversations with the Thaylens about the Passions and how Odium & Co. are also all about the Passions...

--

One thing I'm unclear on is if Dalinar's ever actually gotten these glimpses of the God Beyond(?), or if it was all just Odium being Odious. At the end there it was implied he was still getting those impressions and it was a good thing, but until then I'd just assumed it was Odium seeping in after the first time he broke into a Stormfather vision, given Dalinar's initial reaction.

--

• 64: "The Stormfather hates to be misquoted." - Good line.
• 67: Investiture-detecting jar: Sand from Taldain?
• 77: Yes hello Sleepless cremling. You're looking obvious today.
• 79: Oh hi Vivenna. Thought we'd have to work harder to spot you.

--

• Kaladin's BSOD during the fight in the palace was... ill-timed. Guessing here that the 4th Ideal is something to the effect of "I'll protect only those I can", backed up by the one epigraph quote from a Windrunner.
• I've a mini-theory that the Everstorm was partially empowered/guided by the Fused who haven't been embodied yet, and that they guide the lighting etc. strategically if they want to. So it's getting less nasty as more Fused take over bodies.
• Didn't see any of the Renarin suspicion from Jasnah coming, at all. The spren appearance research, the whole spiel about internal threats to dynasties, etc. None of it registered as relevant to Ren until Shallan was half a second from shanking him and the text was kind enough to spell it out for me.
• Stormfather’s interaction with Lopen at the end were amusing.
• Also Cultivation was the unexpected badchull there, outplaying Odium like a boss. MVP.

---------

All in all I liked the book well enough. I'll need some digestion and a re-read to really settle on an opinion.

Glancing through this thread there's some consternation over the love triangle. Honestly I saw it as a non-entity even from back in WoR, and didn't take Shallodin seriously as an option. I'd have been shocked if it ever actually became a thing, so there was never much tension from it for me, more just something that spoke to Shallan's/Kaladin's state of mind.

The crossover/fan-aimed stuff did perhaps get a bit extreme. I'm too deep in all of this to appreciate an outsider's perspective, but I'd likely have been hella'-confused by a lot of the Shadesmar stuff, the Realmatic Capitalized Things being mentioned left right and center, etc. Some of the more minor stuff would also be weird from an outside perspective, I think. Specifically:

• The Diagramists knowing to look for the secret that broke the KR. We knew that because that one diagram entry got decrypted, but the way it was mentioned in-book a few hundred pages before the reveal seemed a bit opaque/out of nowhere
• Navani's painrial taser. Don't read Alethi women's script? Well I guess that scene where Navani super-tases everyone will be particularly surprising to you.

Again, I can't judge what effect this might have on immersion, suspension of disbelief, etc. for a less obsessive reader than I.

Edit: Removed an inaccurate quote/comment  

 

[Musica she/her]

This will be a long post.. sorry. 

The book left me strangely... unfulfilled? I found that often with fantasy books with multiple POVs, I'll get this feeling like not matter how much happens, it's never quite enough to be satisfying. Also, not NEARLY enough interaction between our main cast for my taste, whether in small groups or (especially) all together. 

The reveal about the Recreance was rather underwhelming as well.

 

Just to be clear- I loved the book. I really did. But not as much as WoR, and not necessarily more than WoK. 

I agree with what people said about Kal's 4th Ideal- as much as I adore those epic moments, it was good for Kal to feel that, for once, someone else did the saving, and not only that, HE was the one being saved. On the other hand, I felt there was a lot of build up for him that just kind of fizzled into.. nothing, really. That was disappointing. 

About Teft- from the way I understood it, he said the third ideal on-screen (since it was a slightly different version of Kal's, plus you get squires on the third one). When did he say the second, then? 

 

Am I the only one who didn't actually like the somewhat-artifical way some squires became Radiants? It felt like cheating. Follow a Radiant for enough time, say the first two Ideals he tells you, wish hard enough, and just find your version of the third Ideal, and there you have your Instant Radiant Recipe. 

It felt almost like cheating, after everythig our main cast went through to discover the Ideals on their own.. especially for the Skybreakers and Windrunners (I didn't mind the squire-becoming process, just the squire-to-Radiant one). I very much liked Shallan getting her own squire, though:)

 

Elhokar! Just when I was coming to like you and think I might not be too annoyed that you showed signs of becoming a Radiant too (too many Kholin Radiants! Please done make Adolin into one, too!), you go and get yourself killed. It was really emotionally painful yet gratifying moment..

 

Storm you to Damnation and back, Moash! I seriously hate you right now. Until that moment, I thought he still had a shot at redemption, but not anymore. 

Btw, I was really looking forward to Kal's resolution regarding Elhokar's request ("be extraordinary, captain") and was really disappointed not to get it. Hoping for this to come up and be resolved in book 4. 

 

I adored the interactions between Adolin and Kaladin in Shadesmar. Adolin was such a sweetheart, and Kal broke my heart. Syl, of course, was one of the best parts, and I wish she'd gotten more screen time. 

The whole Shadesmar part was really interesting, yet didn't feel like it had any real impact on everything happening beyond separating the characters. Hope it will play a bigger part in the next books. 

 

Shallan and Adolin. I don't mind their relationship, but it's resolution felt way too abrupt and unsatisfying. I was hoping for a more concrete.. SOMETHING. Dunno. For both Shalladin and Shadolin ships' sake. 

Jasnah and Renarin. I adored that scene towards the end! Just wish we'd had more of you. 

 

Dalinar's story was the most satisfying one by far, as should be, I suppose, since it IS his book.  Love his interactions with Odium, the Stormfather, Cultivation and the Thrill Unmade (forgot the name). He truly shines here, and the transformation he went through from his youth all the way to present day is nothing short of amazing.

 

Amaram. I wish someone would bring you back just so someone would kill you again. Repeatedly. (Just kidding. Please stay dead).

 

I feel like we should have gotten some more scenes showing characters' reaction to Szeth's revival and apparent change of heart. It's so weird how everyone just accepted everything.

Hello Vivenna, Nightblood and Hoid. But where is Vasher?

 

What's up with the Ghostblood?? What's their game?

 

Taln, you precious man. Your short moment of lucidity made me cry. He and Ash were clearly a thing in the past, or at least extremely close, and the fact he didn't blame her or saw her (and the other Heralds') abandonment as betrayal.. I can't. 

And I can't believe Jezrien is dead just like that! What was the sword made of? How did the Fused know who he was? Was it Odium who found him?

 

That moment in the end, where we discover Skar and Drehy are alive, and not only that, but they managed to get Elhokar's child and some others out of Kohlinar and to safety... ("we protect those who cannot protect themselves")... I cried. For real. 

 

Hoid saving Elhokar's almost-bonded Cryptic was sweet:)

 

Theory Time-

Don't know if someone covered it, but could the humans on Roshar have gotten there from the third planet in the system? We know we have Roshar, Braize (Damnation, where Odium is imprisoned) and a third planet, that people theorized is where the Tranquiline Halls are located. What if Vorin lore is actually based on the humans' desire to return to their home world? And how exactly did Surgebinding destroy it??

 

Time for a re-read. And then the long wait for book 4...

Edited November 17, 2017 by Musica

[lexoj]

21 minutes ago, Kurkistan said:

On 11/16/2017 at 1:30 PM, lordofsoup said:

Now that [Hoid]  is a [Elsecaller].  Does this mean that he no longer needs to ride perpendicularities to access the Cognitive realm?  

 

Hoid rescued a Cryptic NOT an Inkspren, which gives access to Transformation and Illumination. He has Lightweaver abilities not Elsecaller.

[Kurkistan he/him]

3 minutes ago, lexoj said:

Hoid rescued a Cryptic NOT an Inkspren, which gives access to Transformation and Illumination. He has Lightweaver abilities not Elsecaller.

Very true. Thanks for the catch.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

6 hours ago, Blacksmithki said:

Anyone else think that the diagram might have been made in such a brilliant way that it's goal is to intentionally fail and help our radiants? it's actually done that a fair few times so far with Kaladin progressing due to it, and seemingly brilliant T left a hidden message that Odium can't see.

I have always expected the worst out of the Diagram and they have happily delivered. Maybe you are right, I seldom fully discard anything, but the Diagram always felt like bad news all around. Before OB the nicest I was willing to think of the Diagram was that they didn't know their endgame. If they knew their endgame I was fairly sure it was capitulating to Odium. And voila.

4 hours ago, KnightGradient said:

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

I was disturbed by Odium, and he is clearly a complex character, but thats not surprising, few villains here are simple. I don't think he cares though, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. He could just have been savoring Dalinar doing what Odium wanted him to.

4 hours ago, KnightGradient said:

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them.

I agree the parsh have it rough, but for different reasons. They have it rough because first they were enslaved by humans for millenia, and when they woke up it was just to be used by their ancestors as cannon fodder in their war of millenia ago. The harsh truth I got is that the Fused care nothing for the parsh. They just care about their war, and the parsh are the peons they will use in it. Talk about ancient grudges preventing a race from truly living life.

4 hours ago, KnightGradient said:

I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

Why? What determines who deserves to live? Is living a right you must earn? Do you honestly believe because your ancestors did something bad you deserve to be punished? So...if you descend from a murderer are you cursed forever no matter what you do?

Humans were the bad guys once. So what? Who hasn't been the bad guys at some point? And more importantly, does it matter? The only way that humans don't deserve Roshar is if they don't fight for it. A peaceful resolution would be ideal, but ultimately, humans will defend themselves and their families, and I will not be convinced that is wrong. Because there is nothing wrong with wanting to live, and wanting your children to live. Everyone in Roshar, parsh and humans both just want to live, and quite simply none of them is wrong to want that.

2 hours ago, Shadowmancer said:

Lastly, I think we finally saw Hemalurgy used outside of Scadrial. No wonder even Vessels have been scared Witless over it.

Where? I missed some things ^^. 

 

[Gloom Spren]

On 11/15/2017 at 0:50 AM, Stormbless said:

Im thinking maybe Kaladin x Jasnah would be an ideal match??

I've been shipping Jasnah x Taln since she read his quotes and Dalinar's flashback mentioning her lunacy.  She's got a soft spot for mental illness, I would bet on it.

 

Can't wait to hear about young crazy Jasnah. What happened?!

[Leyrann]

5 hours ago, KnightGradient said:

After digesting the book for the past 24 hours, I can safely say it was awesome. But disturbing.

Was nobody else deeply disturbed by Odium Passion? I expected some conniving, backstabbing SOB, who would twist your words and destroy worlds. Instead, he actually seemed to care. Every time Dalinar said "Choose your fighter! One duel for all of Roshar!" Odium would back away, and ask "Are you sure? Do you understand what you are asking?" I don't think that's just how Shards are. Ruin or Autonomy would probably have capitalized on those words, and immediately overpowered Dalinar. 

Moreover, the parsh have it rough. We were promised Voidbringers, and instead got people. Angry people. Angry and right people. Humanity invaded their world, spat on the kindness the Singers offered, and stole their Gods. Then, humans engaged in bloody wars, eventually removed a fundamental part of their existence, made them idiots, and enslaved them. I'm probably in the minority, but Moash was right. Humans don't deserve Roshar anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love them good guys. The Knights Radiant were amazing here, and the Battle of Thaylen Field was phenomenal, but I have to side with Passion. Rayse's quest to kill the Shards makes sense now; all they do is meddle and interfere. Without the Shard's, the Cosmere would probably be a lot more peaceful, and more prosperous too. Elantris is proof of this. Even with both Shards dead, their world is the most advanced, and while divided, it seems like they've united since we last were on Sel.

Maybe I need to reread Oathbringer, but I think we're seeing the perspective of the bad guys. Guess I understand the Recreance now.

The mark of a truly great book is that people disagree on who the good guys are... Well done Brandon Sanderson.

33 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Where? I missed some things ^^. 

The blade that killed Jezrien.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

The mark of a truly great book is that people disagree on who the good guys are... Well done Brandon Sanderson.

The blade that killed Jezrien.

OMG, that seems so obvious now. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard
Sadly I'm out of upvotes

[frozndevl]

30 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

OMG, that seems so obvious now. 

Okay, what's so obvious about it? There's no transfer of power. To me it seems more like the blinding knife.

Well, the black smoke leaking to me suggests that it shares similarities with an awakened blade.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

7 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Okay, what's so obvious about it? There's no transfer of power. To me it seems more like the blinding knife.

Well, the black smoke leaking to me suggests that it shares similarities with an awakened blade.

Brandon said Hemalurgy was made to work everywhere in the Cosmere. Makes sense that to absorb a cognitive shadow like a Herald (basically a piece of investure) you would just use a spike to absorb the investure instead of a powerful one-of-a kind weapon. Easier, and more dangerous. 

Specially dangerous when you understand Jezrien's investure is in a spike that could be transferred to someone now. And that any old spike of the right material will do to kill Heralds, you don't even need a unique weapon to destroy the Oathpact.

[Wotsummary]

So a quick couple of thoughts I haven’t seen here....

The Painrial seems like it might have helped Dalinar survive. He puts it on - and then starts remembering things. It’s destroyed at the start of the confrontation with odium. Seems too convenient to be anything else. 

 

Rock pulled back a storming shardbow. Everyone else we’ve seen do that needed to be wearing plate. 

[Aleksiel]

It was a good book, but I can’t say I liked it as much as the previous two. There were too many different PoVs, which was distracting. So much happened and so much information was dumped that there wasn’t much time to explore the emotions and inner world of the cast, which was something I enjoyed very much in WoK and WoR. Too many different PoVs, I liked them individually speaking, but I feel it was too much for an already complicated book with a large cast, not enough time for everybody.

I see I’m not the only one who was kind of underwhelmed by the secret that broke the Radiants. How many millennia until someone counts as native, seriously? Well, I’m not surprised some people are actually fighting FOR Odium (I hate you, Moash, I hope Adolin stabs you in the eye, too), I bet if our world was invaded by aliens there would be idiots helping them, too. 

However I think KR were more worried about destroying Roshar with their powers, which is why they killed their spren so no one could bond them. But surgebinding became possible on Roshar, humans could have only used voidbinding in their original planet, so there should be more to this. Also, if Ishi created the Oathpact, he must have already had an Honorblade and why would someone so keen on oaths like Honor not want an oathpact first? I feel there’s something missing here, too.

I was annoyed how Nale switched to the enemy, he must have known humans didn’t originate from Roshar. I realize he’s getting worse, but come on… Yet he’ll still train Szeth  OK…

I like how the alethi slowly learn to respect other cultures. Dalinar’s instant language hack was interesting, I wonder what else he could do. His Ascension is something I need to reread, because I didn’t quite get how he managed to take a piece of Honor. I wonder how this changes his powers?

Kal couldn’t say the next oath, but that was alright. I wonder if SB ideal quest is mirrored by other orders?

Elhokar dying before actually succeeding at anything was disappointing. Especially after it was confirmed he had attracted a Cryptic. Why didn’t Dalinar lend him Jezrien’s honorblade like he initially thought? Elhokar would have had weeks to practice like the squires did.

The have-you-seen-me guy Szeth met is now confirmed Jezrien. And.. dead. So dead. What was that knife and why can’t the fused use it?

I almost feel bad for Shalladin shippers.

One of the unmade wanting to switch sides is interesting. Still no idea what on Roshar the GB want.

Wow, Kal did buy Syl a sprenhat like Lopen suggested 

Adolin is so reviving Maya next book 

Taln being glad humanity had millennia to progress  – oh, Taln… Humanity doesn’t deserve you. 

Journey before pancakes – I can see a future conflict between Lopen and Lift here 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Aleksiel

[Steeldancer he/him]

13 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

The skybreakers are odd. They make sense usually, but an odd sense. I honestly believe that they will continue visiting and training Szeth even if they are on different sides, and they won't do it with any ulterior motive. Just see each other as fellow skybreakers following their Oaths and respect each other for it. Szeth is probably the character closest to Honor in all SA. I don't think he has ever broken an Oath. Not even the silly or hard ones. 

Szeth's fate is right now fully on Dalinar's hands. Szeth can't bear to be on the driver seat of his life so has passed the wheel to Dalinar. Whether he drives him to Honor, Odium, Cultivation, redemption or something else will depend on Dalinar more than anyone/anything else. No pressure there . Sigh, their chat is probably the most missed thing for me in OB. 

Dude... Taln? Way more honorable- and GOOD- than Szeth. Nothing against Szeth. But seriously.