Long Game 38: In the beginning...

[little wilson she/her]

So...why is the platypi rule so popular? You realize whoever has that item will die before they can achieve their win con, right? Bunnies eat your own items and pancakes. If you have no items, they will eat your pancakes. Unless you're RPing an absurd amount and doing the 2 pancakes collection every night, the bunnies you have will eat through any stock you may build up and then there won't be anything left for you, and any actions you make to get more pancakes will be eaten by your bunnies, which are fed every cycle.

 Let me repeat that because it's important: Every bunny feeds every cycle if you have anything in your inventory they can eat. You don't control where your bunnies go to feed. They eat your own inventory.

Everyone who voted on that rule just basically condemned everyone, including themselves, to a long, slow death by starvation. Congratulations.

[DeTess she/her]

3 minutes ago, little wilson said:

So...why is the platypi rule so popular? You realize whoever has that item will die before they can achieve their win con, right? Bunnies eat your own items and pancakes. If you have no items, they will eat your pancakes. Unless you're RPing an absurd amount and doing the 2 pancakes collection every night, the bunnies you have will eat through any stock you may build up and then there won't be anything left for you, and any actions you make to get more pancakes will be eaten by your bunnies, which are fed every cycle.

 Let me repeat that because it's important: Every bunny feeds every cycle if you have anything in your inventory they can eat. You don't control where your bunnies go to feed. They eat your own inventory.

Everyone who voted on that rule just basically condemned everyone, including themselves, to a long, slow death by starvation. Congratulations.

I think that win can be pulled off if more breeding pairs equals more bunnies produced, but it'll be a really close call for the person trying it. Anyway, this will only affect those getting the platipy and will reduce the load on everyone else if it goes into effect. That having been said, I'm not a particularly big fan of the bunny rule for the above reasons; it just really cramps everyone's action economy.

[Steeldancer he/him]

16 minutes ago, little wilson said:

So...why is the platypi rule so popular? You realize whoever has that item will die before they can achieve their win con, right? Bunnies eat your own items and pancakes. If you have no items, they will eat your pancakes. Unless you're RPing an absurd amount and doing the 2 pancakes collection every night, the bunnies you have will eat through any stock you may build up and then there won't be anything left for you, and any actions you make to get more pancakes will be eaten by your bunnies, which are fed every cycle.

 Let me repeat that because it's important: Every bunny feeds every cycle if you have anything in your inventory they can eat. You don't control where your bunnies go to feed. They eat your own inventory.

Everyone who voted on that rule just basically condemned everyone, including themselves, to a long, slow death by starvation. Congratulations.

But at least I will starve with an adorable bunny  <3

I've named mine Pedro the bunny. 

I cannot describe how happy I was to see that rule go through. It makes me laugh so much. I'm laughing hysterically even as I write this. 

[Sami she/her]

Alright, here comes a pancake:

---

Dag bought a steak. Not just any steak - a really juicy perfectly cooked steak. Dag was partial to a good steak, especially when the bones could be used as a missile afterwards.  Someone threw a carrot at her. She dodged neatly, the vegetable missing her head by three inches. She smirked at the offender, reaching to her belt for her dagger to cut her steak.

It wasn't there. Dag frowned, glancing down. The sheath was empty. She remembered the dude that had stopped her earlier. That - that chull!!!!!!!! Dag was enraged. She had other knives - a frighteningly large collection of them, actually - but that one had been her special one! She got up and sprinted back down the street, ready to separate the carriage dude from his head.

Back at her seat, a pink bunny appeared and began to eat her steak. Glancing back, Dag felt another murderous feeling towards that bunny. When I get back, I'll separate you from your head as well   she promised it. 

word count: 171 

Also, I vote for Rule #1

Edited September 10, 2017 by Sami

[Elenion he/him]

1 hour ago, little wilson said:

So...why is the platypi rule so popular? You realize whoever has that item will die before they can achieve their win con, right? Bunnies eat your own items and pancakes. If you have no items, they will eat your pancakes. Unless you're RPing an absurd amount and doing the 2 pancakes collection every night, the bunnies you have will eat through any stock you may build up and then there won't be anything left for you, and any actions you make to get more pancakes will be eaten by your bunnies, which are fed every cycle.

 Let me repeat that because it's important: Every bunny feeds every cycle if you have anything in your inventory they can eat. You don't control where your bunnies go to feed. They eat your own inventory.

Everyone who voted on that rule just basically condemned everyone, including themselves, to a long, slow death by starvation. Congratulations.

I'm in definite agreement with you there.

 

Guys, as much fun as it may be to create crazy rules, this game is insanely broken. Here's just a few of the ways:

1. Elementalists can doc spy, making the game basically impossible for the factions.

2. It's very hard to get actions done, with pancakes limiting and requiring actions, spheres limiting actions, roleblocks going off right and left (someone got me last cycle), etc.

3. It's hard enough for a vanilla to win with an SK kill, much less with your items being eaten by bunnies. The factionless have absolutely no chance.

4. The WorldSmiths also have no chance, because of the crazy number of items hitting the field every turn and their kill not even killing a player all the way.

5. The Brotherhood maybe have a chance, if they can get their actions through. Maybe.

6. I don't know enough about the Agents of Chaos, but I'd assume their win con is practically impossible as well.

7. It's Day 3, and we have a big whopping one death. At this rate we'll be here all year.

 

I've heard from multiple players that this game needs a rules cleanup. Proposing: Len and Drake's Silver Bullet to this game's problems.

When our rule (to be proposed tonight) is voted in, the game will freeze. No actions or effects will resolve. Next cycle, a public vote will take place between these options:

1. Complete game wipe. Elim team randomly created, and the game becomes a true vanilla game.

2. Complete game wipe. The game is now a hidden info game based on rules that Drake and I have created.

3. Complete game wipe. The rules of this game are set to those of a random, previously-run LG.

4. Complete game wipe. Each player submits one rule, and the game begins again from C1 with no new rules being introduced.

5. The game unfreezes and resumes as before.

6. The game is over. All players win.

7. All players vote on whether to keep or remove each individual rule in this game, then the game restarts with the new rules.

Voting in our rule won't force the game to change, but it will allow us all to counteract critical game flaws before they render the game unplayable.

[Hemalurgic Headshot he/him]

37 minutes ago, Elenion said:

I'm in definite agreement with you there.

 

Guys, as much fun as it may be to create crazy rules, this game is insanely broken. Here's just a few of the ways:

1. Elementalists can doc spy, making the game basically impossible for the factions.

2. It's very hard to get actions done, with pancakes limiting and requiring actions, spheres limiting actions, roleblocks going off right and left (someone got me last cycle), etc.

3. It's hard enough for a vanilla to win with an SK kill, much less with your items being eaten by bunnies. The factionless have absolutely no chance.

4. The WorldSmiths also have no chance, because of the crazy number of items hitting the field every turn and their kill not even killing a player all the way.

5. The Brotherhood maybe have a chance, if they can get their actions through. Maybe.

6. I don't know enough about the Agents of Chaos, but I'd assume their win con is practically impossible as well.

7. It's Day 3, and we have a big whopping one death. At this rate we'll be here all year.

 

I've heard from multiple players that this game needs a rules cleanup. Proposing: Len and Drake's Silver Bullet to this game's problems.

When our rule (to be proposed tonight) is voted in, the game will freeze. No actions or effects will resolve. Next cycle, a public vote will take place between these options:

1. Complete game wipe. Elim team randomly created, and the game becomes a true vanilla game.

2. Complete game wipe. The game is now a hidden info game based on rules that Drake and I have created.

3. Complete game wipe. The rules of this game are set to those of a random, previously-run LG.

4. Complete game wipe. Each player submits one rule, and the game begins again from C1 with no new rules being introduced.

5. The game unfreezes and resumes as before.

6. The game is over. All players win.

7. All players vote on whether to keep or remove each individual rule in this game, then the game restarts with the new rules.

Voting in our rule won't force the game to change, but it will allow us all to counteract critical game flaws before they render the game unplayable.

Thank you for taking initiative, Len. I'd prefer to have options 2, 4, and 7 be prioritized, because they, in some fashion, keep the spirit of the game. This game is a testing ground for a variety of interesting mechanics that give flavor to the SE community. However, some of us are too creative. Hopefully, you and Drake do not break the game on your favor through hidden fine print of your proposed rule to be voted on next turn.

[little wilson she/her]

I'm not a fan of any of the complete game-wipe options, particularly the option about running a game based on rules you and Drake came up with, when we don't know what those rules are. I do like the 7th option though. A lot. There are some valid rules in this game that are making the game more interesting. There are also some ridiculous rules that are creating serious problems. Being able to vote on which ones are in place and which ones aren't will help cull the ridiculousness and make the game actually playable.

As for the Agents, Sheep talked to me when the game started about their win con. It's subjective - purely Sheep's decision at the end of the game, about if they created "enough" chaos. The amusing thing is that they don't really have much practical ability to do so. I'd thought when I'd suggested the faction that the single-use faction ability would be more powerful and give them a chance of fulfilling that win con, but I think the only real abilities in the game that count as such are the Elementalists.  That's a little unfortunate. No wonder we haven't really seen much evidence of them beyond some of the more ridiculous rule proposals. >>

[Elenion he/him]

21 minutes ago, little wilson said:

I'm not a fan of any of the complete game-wipe options, particularly the option about running a game based on rules you and Drake came up with, when we don't know what those rules are. I do like the 7th option though. A lot. There are some valid rules in this game that are making the game more interesting. There are also some ridiculous rules that are creating serious problems. Being able to vote on which ones are in place and which ones aren't will help cull the ridiculousness and make the game actually playable.

My idea with the game wipe options was to just put most every possible option out there. The way my rule is set up, anyone who wants a change can vote yes, and then if the players as a whole want the change then they're in a position to make the one they want. Not all of my options are good--6 isn't, IMO--but I want them all to be options.

27 minutes ago, Hemalurgic_Headshot said:

Thank you for taking initiative, Len. I'd prefer to have options 2, 4, and 7 be prioritized, because they, in some fashion, keep the spirit of the game. This game is a testing ground for a variety of interesting mechanics that give flavor to the SE community. However, some of us are too creative. Hopefully, you and Drake do not break the game on your favor through hidden fine print of your proposed rule to be voted on next turn.

Our motivation is to make the game fun to play. Check for fine print if you want, the only thing you'll have to trust us on is that the rules for #2 are balanced, and we both believe that they are.

[little wilson she/her]

1 minute ago, Elenion said:

Our motivation is to make the game fun to play. Check for fine print if you want, the only thing you'll have to trust us on is that the rules for #2 are balanced, and we both believe that they are.

So....basically a way to play a game that you've created while skirting the committee meant to make sure games are balanced. Alrighty then. You'll def need to run your rules by Alv first, since he's the IM.

[Elenion he/him]

8 minutes ago, little wilson said:

So....basically a way to play a game that you've created while skirting the committee meant to make sure games are balanced. Alrighty then. You'll def need to run your rules by Alv first, since he's the IM.

The intent wasn't to skirt the committee; we're cool with running it by Alv, Joe, or anyone else not in the game if that option gets selectedn

Also, to clarify something that I didn't before: the voting would be done not with one vote per person but by each person listing the rules they'd be "OK with", and the option that is amenable to the most people being selected.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I was planning on fulfilling a vendetta in a spectacular fashion at the end of this cycle. But I'm going to hold off on that, because I've decided on taking a very different approach to this game.

And so.

Straw
King Cole
Hemalurgic_Headshot Hastur Hastur Hastur
little wilson
winter devotion
Jondesu
Orlok Tsubodai
Sart
Ecthelion III
Flash
Sami
Bartimaeus
Darkness Ascendant
randuir
Roadwalker
Majestic
Drake Marshall
Eternum
DroughtBringer
Elithanathile
Elenion
Aonar Faileas
Bort
Grumpy Dula
Clanky
Magestar
Arinian
Lemonelen
Megasif
Brightness Radiant
The Young Bard

None shall be boring today! 

 

I'm not just doing this for kicks, though; I do this to illustrate a point.

We all signed up for this game expecting something less structured. Even so, this game could be made more fun than it is right now.

There are broken roles, one of which I just demonstrated by casting so many votes (that's not even my limit ).

There are lots of action restrictions and extra lives, making the game progress very, very slowly.

And there isn't really anywhere much to progress to, especially since the only two real rivals, the Brotherhood of Peace and the Worldsmiths, are now working together.

So yeah. As much as this game has been fun, we can make it better, yeah?

 

Anyway, I've talked this all over with Elenion, and we have a plan.

So, @Elenion, I do believe it's your turn to present that plan.

Y'alls should listen to him and stuff.

 

EDIT: LOL I haven't been reading this thread. Len's already said stuff.

But yeah. This is a good thing for the game. Pls get behind it, or at least discuss why you disagree if you do.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[little wilson she/her]

Drake Drake Drake

[little wilson she/her]

More to the point though. Calling all factionless (and apparently the Agents of Chaos too). Drake has just confessed to being either a WorldSmith or part of the Brotherhood of Peace. And that both of those factions (which are supposed to be at odds with one another) are working together. He then goes on to say that the game can't be fun for anyone because he and those on his faction are working against the spirit of the game because they're working with an enemy faction. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't really like dictators and I sure as hell don't want to follow whatever Drake and Len (who is also clearly part of either the Worldsmiths or the Brotherhood) have in store for the rest of us. Even if it's a so-called "balanced" game. I didn't sign up for Drake and Len's game. I signed up for Sheep and Stink's game. I also didn't sign up for someone to tell me what is and isn't fun, especially when that person is the one causing most of what they say is "unfun".

I think it's safe to say that Drake is an enemy to most of the players in this game. So let's kill him. kthxbai

[Elenion he/him]

@little wilson  We aren't trying to go dictatorial. We haven't dropped a massive vote-hammer on a non-faction player, we just made everyone non-Boring. We haven't forced everyone to accept our plan, and if you accept it by voting for it we haven't forced everyone to pick option 2. If Drake and I were trying to take over the game, we would have done it using Drake's massive vote horde to overwhelm the voting for the rules, not explained our rule for everyone to see and discuss. What Drake just did is to prove to everyone that the game is horribly broken and needs to be fixed. A balanced game wouldn't allow Drake to vote on everyone, nor would it allow the WorldSmiths to be working with the Brotherhood. We're trying to fix these problems, not exacerbate them.

[little wilson she/her]

The rules already state that there is no world where the Brotherhood and the WorldSmiths can win together so pray tell, why exactly are you two working together, hm?

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, little wilson said:

The rules already state that there is no world where the Brotherhood and the WorldSmiths can win together so pray tell, why exactly are you two working together, hm?

Because we're married. We're both WorldSmith and Brotherhood, and so per Sheep's clarifications we have to go for a dual win. There's no alternative for us.

(Also, because we're married, I'm packing the same number of votes Drake is)

[Elenion he/him]

@little wilson Please don't be so condescending with us. Drake and I between us are completely overpowered. Based on role and rule interactions never meant to happen, we're on both warring teams, have a private communication, 4 lives, basically infinite votes, and a win con to ensure that the Brotherhood and WorldSmiths both win. If one of us is killed the other can remarry, gain another role, and the next duo would be even stronger. This won't be a fun game for the non-EDrakeion players if we don't rebalance the game, so we're trying to show everyone that a rebalance needs to happen.

[little wilson she/her]

So let me ask this: Whose fault is it that you're in this predicament? Might it not be the rules that you guys put in place and forced into play so you could get into this position? You can't complain about the game being broken when you broke it in the first place.

[Elenion he/him]

Just now, little wilson said:

So let me ask this: Whose fault is it that you're in this predicament? Might it not be the rules that you guys put in place and forced into play so you could get into this position? You can't complain about the game being broken when you broke it in the first place.

Wilson, we weren't trying to put rules into play that would break the game. For one, I haven't voted for a single rule all game since I put my starting rule in. I can't explain what rules are interacting because of roleclaim restrictions, but the majority of them aren't ours or even our allies'. They just apply to us, and we're trying to fix that.

[Aonar he/him]

I'd vote on you Drake, and you too, Len, but I'm boring, and would like to remain so out of a stubborn sense of pride in my mundanity.  (For your information, you should read the rules a little closer. You achieved literally nothing with that vote, since A: You affected 6 people tops, and B: people are only unboringified if they vote for themselves. Make sure you can actually do whatever dumb thing you're trying, next time please.) Also, the Worldsmiths explicitly cannot work with the Brotherhood. Please check your facts. I do agree that a lot of the rules in place are dumb, and should be fixed. However, You clearly haven't thought through your plan, and on top of that I don't trust you.

Oh, you two married each other? How sweet. I'm assuming you left out the part where all your teammates have to die in order for said combined win to actually work, yeah? Now, how hard is it for literally anyone who wants to kill one of your and end it all... 

Umm... bro. Have you been taking advantage of Sheep's headache to get weird rule clarifications? Between the two of you, you have twelve votes. You cannot make people not boring. You each have two lives, since the ability does not stack, as it's one you both have. Marriage is not annulled after death, and you cannot marry multiple people at the same time, ergo, you can only marry once. This is RAW. Now go rethink your plan, and come back if you have something actually valid to say.

[little wilson she/her]

12 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Oh, you two married each other? How sweet. I'm assuming you left out the part where all your teammates have to die in order for said combined win to actually work, yeah? Now, how hard is it for literally anyone who wants to kill one of your and end it all... 

That is a very good point, Aonar. Len, you and Drake might be able to win together, but that doesn't mean that the WorldSmiths and the Brotherhood can win together. That just means that your win con doesn't conflict with Drake's win con. But Drake's teammates' win con still conflicts with yours. As does your teammates' with Drake's. This doesn't magically disappear just because you two up and decided to get hitched.

EDIT: And to all of Drake and Len's teammates: unless you all are planning to marry each other, none of you can win with the other team. One of you will lose. Do not just follow them because they're telling you you can win together. They can win together. You cannot. Not without getting married as well. The rules very clearly state  this. Drake and Len are in this together and if they can fool their team into helping them win and their team lose, you can bet they will. Len in particular. I hear he enjoys stabbing teammates in the back. Don't be the next back he stabs.

Edited September 11, 2017 by little wilson

[Elenion he/him]

1 minute ago, Aonar Faileas said:

(For your information, you should read the rules a little closer. You achieved literally nothing with that vote, since A: You affected 6 people tops, and B: people are only unboringified if they vote for themselves. Make sure you can actually do whatever dumb thing you're trying, next time please.)

From the rules:

Quote

If a player receives no votes, that player is Boring.

Drake has enough votes to affect all of these players per Sheep's clarification. Since each of these players has no longer received no votes, therefore they are not boring. Please read the rules a little closer yourself before you accuse me of being not actually able to do this "dumb thing".

2 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Also, the Worldsmiths explicitly cannot work with the Brotherhood. Please check your facts.

We have a plan for a dual victory, and it involves reducing the game to only WorldSmiths and Brotherhood (a non-aggression pact, if you will), and then passing a rule that ends the game with a cooperative win. Possible, plausible, and no backstabbing of any of our factionmates.

4 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Oh, you two married each other? How sweet. I'm assuming you left out the part where all your teammates have to die in order for said combined win to actually work, yeah? Now, how hard is it for literally anyone who wants to kill one of your and end it all...

Again, no backstabbing would be necessary per our plan.

4 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Have you been taking advantage of Sheep's headache to get weird rule clarifications?

I would not stoop to that just for a small game of SE.

5 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Between the two of you, you have twelve votes.

Wrong. Per Sheep's clarifications we can field 51 this cycle, and 96 the next.

6 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

You cannot make people not boring.

Incorrect and addressed above.

7 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

You each have two lives, since the ability does not stack, as it's one you both have.

No. Per the rules:

Quote

Each player has two lives.

We are two players with 2 lives each, therefore 4 lives.

8 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Marriage is not annulled after death, and you cannot marry multiple people at the same time, ergo, you can only marry once.

You are likely interpreting the phrase in the rules that says:

Quote

 This remains true even if one of the pair dies.

However, I believe this only applies to the previous sentence, or at least that's how it sounds when I read it. @AliasSheep clarification please.

10 minutes ago, Aonar Faileas said:

Now go rethink your plan, and come back if you have something actually valid to say.

No comment here.

Just now, little wilson said:

That is a very good point, Aonar. Len, you and Drake might be able to win together, but that doesn't mean that the WorldSmiths and the Brotherhood can win together. That just means that your win con doesn't conflict with Drake's win con. But Drake's teammates' win con still conflicts with yours. As does your teammates' with Drake's. This doesn't magically disappear just because you two up and decided to get hitched.

I addressed this above: we can pass a rule to modify the win cons once there are only Brotherhood and WorldSmiths left.

[little wilson she/her]

So...basically this is your confession of what I accused you of before: Taking advantage of the game and breaking it and then complaining that the game is broken because you broke it.

Also, re-read the rules for boring and interesting again. I think you'll find them rather illuminating.

EDIT: Here, I'll help you out.

Quote

If a player receives no votes, that player is Boring. Boring players can't be targeted by other players because no one pays attention to them. Further, since no one pays attention to Boring players, no one is affected by their actions. No one pays attention to their votes, because they're so boring, unless they vote on themselves, which makes them interesting, and stops them from being Boring.

So yeah. Voting on any of the currently boring players does literally nothing to them.

[Elenion he/him]

Quote

If a player receives no votes, that player is Boring. Boring players can't be targeted by other players because no one pays attention to them. Further, since no one pays attention to Boring players, no one is affected by their actions. No one pays attention to their votes, because they're so boring, unless they vote on themselves, which makes them interesting, and stops them from being Boring.

As I said before, Boring occurs originally when "a player receives no votes". Now at minimum, by this sentence alone, Drake's votes will prevent any players that were Interesting last cycle from being boring for this cycle. Boring players are untargetable, can make no actions, and can't vote except on themselves. If you remove the appositive phrase from the last sentence, you get "no one plays attention to their votes... unless they vote on themselves, which makes them interesting". This phrase describes how a Boring player can have their vote count if they vote on themself. It says nothing about a player voting on another to make the second player interesting, which is covered in the first sentence.

@little wilson To address your second point.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Elenion

[little wilson she/her]

Ahem.

Quote

Boring players can't be targeted by other players because no one pays attention to them.

Kind of hard to vote on someone you don't pay attention to.