Through the living Wahr He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, Archer said: I’ve been tracking rupee accumulation. Aman changed the rules for C1 to allow excessive posts from one bucket to fill empty slots in the other bucket, so 7 RP + 3 Analysis = 10 rupees, instead of 8. I don’t think anyone knew that until now, so people likely tried to get 5+5. I think the rule change was mentioned in the Sign Up Post, because most people signing up said that they werent familiar with the setting and Aman wanted to make it easier for usthem and not forcing peope to roleplay who didnt know the setting 2 hours ago, Archer said: While aiming to get rich is NAI, my theorized elim profile is: --Posts well beyond their usual profile. Villagers don’t tend to care as much, so elims are more likely to extend beyond their usual posting profile because the advantage matters more to them. –Posts near the end of N1 to squeeze in some more earnings, rather than accruing more organically. (Doc, Divergent, and Coder can have some mild sus for their end of N1, but I’m not pursuing this too hard.) –More inclined to RP than analyze because it can’t be read into. I thin Villagers will als care about getting maxium rupees for two reasons: a) the abillity to send PMs b) getting important roles for the Village. If the Village doesnt care about getting Rupees, the Village Players have access to potentially fewer and weaker masks, which is bad for us 2 hours ago, Archer said: Wahr: A5, 5RP — Elim read. Outside of their output profile. I feel like they’re quieter usually. Do you have some sort of Vendetta against me? In every game we played together (granted that this is only the second, but still) you voted for me the first Day that you could, but this time, I will vote you back Archer 2 hours ago, Archer said: Edit: Wahr, can you tell me about this post? What made you think about the NK being skippable? I dont remember how much was said about the NK in the rules for 16 Players, so I assumed it would probably function like the other game I played, where the Elims had to submitt it as an action, and if no one submitts one the NK would be Skipped 1 hour ago, coco.pudding said: As for your thoughts on Wahr, I had forgotten they were the one who first brought up the no NK idea. That does seem a little odd, although their only other game was one where there wasn’t a NK a couple times so maybe not that weird. I was going to say I remember them not being online at this time—I’m pretty sure it’s the middle of the night for them right now, so you may want to bring their attention back to this when they are back so they can respond. They have been posting more often but that could also just be them trying to get rupees or simply having more time. They don’t have enough of a “normal” for us to know. But you have brought up some good points here and I do agree they’re a bit suspect. Well yeah the only other game I played here had the option of skipable NK, so I dont think its weird for me to assume thats the case this time around as well, especially if the rules didnt say otherwise. Yes for anyone who doesnt know, i am europe based, so the time around rollover is middle of the night for me, which means I probably wont post in the first and last few hours of a turn. Regarding my posting Volume, the other Game I played was my first Game on here, so I am still figuring out my playstyle, also, last time I was a Vanilla, this time around, I have a bit of Controll if I get a role and what role I get, so I am trying to get many rupees to get a role and help the village. I dont think theres something wrong with that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wahi was exausted, he and Kieran hadnt managed to find a Doctor in the crowd, and then the evacuation started, he was tahnkfull for Thistles herb, even though it only numbed the pain in his arm and knee. Currently he sat at the side of the road, one of the Dekus, at least he thought that thats what they were called, he didnt knew, but others refered to them as such, had splinted his arm but he would need to find an actual doctor (I think that broken Arm will be a considerable part of my RP this Loop) Edited February 22 by Wahrheitswächter 2
Myst He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said: I think the rule change was mentioned in the Sign Up Post, because most people signing up said that they werent familiar with the setting and Aman wanted to make it easier for usthem and not forcing peope to roleplay who didnt know the setting I thin Villagers will als care about getting maxium rupees for two reasons: a) the abillity to send PMs b) getting important roles for the Village. If the Village doesnt care about getting Rupees, the Village Players have access to potentially fewer and weaker masks, which is bad for us Do you have some sort of Vendetta against me? In every game we played together (granted that this is only the second, but still) you voted for me the first Day that you could, but this time, I will vote you back Archer I dont remember how much was said about the NK in the rules for 16 Players, so I assumed it would probably function like the other game I played, where the Elims had to submitt it as an action, and if no one submitts one the NK would be Skipped Well yeah the only other game I played here had the option of skipable NK, so I dont think its weird for me to assume thats the case this time around as well, especially if the rules didnt say otherwise. Yes for anyone who doesnt know, i am europe based, so the time around rollover is middle of the night for me, which means I probably wont post in the first and last few hours of a turn. Regarding my posting Volume, the other Game I played was my first Game on here, so I am still figuring out my playstyle, also, last time I was a Vanilla, this time around, I have a bit of Controll if I get a role and what role I get, so I am trying to get many rupees to get a role and help the village. I dont think theres something wrong with that. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wahi was exausted, he and Kieran hadnt managed to find a Doctor in the crowd, and then the evacuation started, he was tahnkfull for Thistles herb, even though it only numbed the pain in his arm and knee. Currently he sat at the side of the road, one of the Dekus, at least he thought that thats what they were called, he didnt knew, but others refered to them as such, had splinted his arm but he would need to find an actual doctor (I think that broken Arm will be a considerable part of my RP this Loop) Kieran looked back at the people, he couldn’t see them too well through the dense forest, but it seemed they had stopped. “That’s certainly not good” too many people had gotten injured in the nights festival… Wahi with his arm… All sorts of things. If they were stopping now, someone might’ve collapsed from pain. Kieran headed back to check it out, after all, they had to keep moving “I’ll carry them if I have too” 1
Ashbringer he/him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Coliver and Makazi hadn’t said a word to each other since they walked through the South Gate. It was all a blur, really. Marton was… it wasn’t Marton. She had to let go of that. The Goron patriarch, whatever his name was, she never’d asked, had carried it out on his back. It had been trying to explain something to her, then nearly ran outside when the fires began. When Vale… They’d found a spot to sit. Someone had apparently saved some of the cookies she’d made, and they were being passed around. Coliver couldn’t imagine wanting to eat anything right now. 1
Doc12 Posted February 22 Posted February 22 9 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said: Villagers now seeming to fear communication. Yes, there are times where Village secrecy can help catch out an Elim in a mistake or a lie, but broadly speaking, public information favors the Village. I also agree that public information favors the village, as elims are much more powerful when villagers are too afraid to communicate to each other. 8 hours ago, Archer said: I’ve been tracking rupee accumulation. Aman changed the rules for C1 to allow excessive posts from one bucket to fill empty slots in the other bucket, so 7 RP + 3 Analysis = 10 rupees, instead of 8. I don’t think anyone knew that until now, so people likely tried to get 5+5. Interesting, I must have missed that. Yeah I was trying to get my RP in last night because I realized I had more discussion posts than RP. But at that point in the night I had already shared my thoughts on players and there didn't seem much to discuss without a death so far. 7 hours ago, Burnt Spaghetti said: i'd be happy with people like Wonko and Archer to be going in for that. Potentially even both in case future loops they are picked off by elims immediately to stop the information being passed on. The smaller the trust circle, the easier it is for them to try control. If I was to pick my ideal trust circle, I'd have one of those two players, and someone good at/enjoys pm communications, like myself, Mistfallen (at least i think you do, since you seemed keen on postmaster, don't actually personally know how you play ) or Doc. Probably Araris too - I can never read Araris and they always seem to be some sort of quietly absurdly powerful that are super helpful or deadly especially late game. Someone who can help lead from the front, and someone who can help behind scenes. Thinky and chatty folks. Though, the pm situation is not really like what i'm used to so wont have the same level of utilization that I would like. So possibly more so the thinky people. Hael? The funny thing is that last night I wouldn't have wanted to vote on Wonko or Archer because at that point we believed the elims intended to lose the loop, because that seemed to be the optimal strategy as stated by the above two. So I was not going to vote on them because I thought it better to keep an eye on them but deny them their requests to be voted just in case they were elims using us to put an elim in the dead doc. But now that there wasn't a NK and it seems like the plan is to win the loop, I'm not sure anymore. It doesn't make sense to want to be exed now that there's going to be a smaller pool - maybe 4? - of people that if the elims throw the loop they'll find themselves in. I don't quite like the line of thinking that we should be exeing people we want/don't want to be in the dead doc just yet. Maybe it's a good idea if we are going to get hard-cleared villagers, and having committed to no NK last night the elims might not be able to pivot their strategy... Still. I don't like how Wonko and Burnt and Mistfallen seem to be saying 'lets focus on people we trust and want in the dead doc' rather than exploring who they're actually suspicious of. I don't know, I said I would vote on people I'm suspicious of, and so I might still vote on Wonko and Archer, but I also want to avoid the entire cycle's discussion focusing on them. I'll do another reread and come back with a reads list later in the day. 6 hours ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: If you want a PM person, go with Doc. I myself am good in a doc, but not PMs, that’s doc, he is so good with them. That said, who do you trust more? If we’re exing for dead doc, it should just be people we trust. That should come above problem solving. That said, I would prefer to not die today, for reasons I would not like to reveal yet The problem is this ain't traditional PMs From what I'm reading it sounds more like once-per-cycle dead drops. I am still intending to PM people, but there isn't really going to be room for PM chatting. I'd quite like to be in a doc, but I'm not volunteering to be exed just yet. Also I don't have enough rupees to PM everyone, so don't be insulted if one of you doesn't get a PM. --------------------------- Thistle was walking. One foot in front of the other. They looked up every so often, each time surprised to see they were in a different place. Their shop. The South Gate. The road. Now by a forest. "...of explosions...single Skull Kid" "...missed smokehouses...meats....this is." People were speaking, but Thistle wasn't really hearing. Things had just stopped registering after the South Gate. "...moon... insane... girl...translate." "...cultists...world is a dream...dying god" Just this morning - yesterday morning? They hadn't slept... they had been excited and ready for the Carnival. Now they were...running? From who? From what? "explosions... so many didn’t make it... So many gone…" The Moon. The explosions. Thistle hadn't seen any masked people, but everyone was talking about a Skull kid... Thistle wasn't old enough to remember 33 years ago, but they knew the stories... People were already talking about the Moon. Thistle didn't want to look up to see what it looked like. They just wanted to keep walking. "they’re here...civilians...doing something so horrible" Thistle shook their head. Where was everyone? They remembered... the shop. The woman with the flute and fiery hair, and the other woman with a kind voice who had helped her pack... And Zymni.... they hadn't seen or heard Zymni since the explosions... and it was daytime... Then suddenly, their attention was drawn to - was that a Deku scrub? A walking one? No - it was... a being - it looked like someone wearing a deku mask but Thistle had no idea what body was - not Hylian, Zora, or Goron... Something about that strange sight made Thistle's brain start working again. It was a Deku that wasn't immediately hostile, that was interesting enough - a Deku trying to communicate? Thistle knew plants... Thistle could try and talk to it... Making their way over to the deku-person, Thistle examined the...mask? and the body - it was all woody and barklike... "H...Hello," Thistle said, falling into step beside them. "My name is Thistle... I'm a florist. I'd love to learn how to communicate with you, if you're willing to try..." 2
Archer he/him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 8 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: In the beginning of this, you say you are village confirmed. How? Or was that a joke? I don’t believe I claimed max rupees too many times, but can see how it might have gotten out of hand. I meant that if you exe me, I might end up village confirmed. Quote also I NEED MORE RP ***** Wow not much to say for one of my 2 remaining discussion posts… ***** Yay! Discussion post! ***** So yeah, I mostly focused on fun RP and lore, while still trying to get my discussion posts in. Also, I was celebrating discussion post, because I had 2 discussion posts I needed to fufil this Night so I could get my max rupee gain. ^ this you? 8 hours ago, Divergent said: There is also the slim possibility that the player with the Bremen Mask successfully blocked the kill too, though I sort of doubt it Please do not claim this until L2D1. Worth discussing the possibility once we see what happens after L1N2. 8 hours ago, coco.pudding said: However, I’m not sure you’re right on the “trying to get rupees is an elim move” part. I feel like masks are going to be very useful for both sides so I think people on both sides are going to be trying to get them. Sending pms also costs rupees so that’s another reason people might want a lot. Yes, the elims are probably going for maximum rupees but I’m sure some villagers are too. That's what an elim gathering rupees would say Our best case scenario is actually everyone getting max rupees every time. Sadly, in SE, the elims are generally more motivated and more likely to break from their usual playstyle to get an edge. Some villagers will do it, most elims will do it. Please do go for the max whenever you have the capacity to. 8 hours ago, Burnt Spaghetti said: so Id want them to be people who are active, and able to communicate to thread what's going on and potentially lead exe's and manage all the incoming communication. D2 we should focus on pressure voting. We can consider this D3, once we know if there's an N2 NK. 8 hours ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: Seriously? Did you think I was trying to draw attention to myself or something? You forget I’ve never played a game with you when you’re village. Except for potentially now, but I don’t think so. Speaking of which, could you explain why you decided to discuss Elim strat in thread? If I missed it please point it out. The absurd confidence of declaring Honor an elim felt like you made up a list of people - perhaps those you actually thought were villagers and were hoping to reverse psychology the NK onto a real suspect of yours. I misread it. Re: Elim strats: I usually start the game with a discussion prompt to get reactions. My plan was the one I had pre-written, to be posted D2. Didn't realize it wasn't a very original idea. Wonko's post made me move up the timeline. Further discussion was mostly to try for a freeze reaction. What I didn't want was an elim team that confidently knew what they wanted to do, in hopes they'd default to a standard NK. (Skipping the NK isn't a freeze btw, it's a planful decision.) 7 hours ago, Divergent said: On the change in rupee accumulation, I think people would have known, probably not everyone, but at least those who were keeping up with Aman's answers to questions would have seen it. Also, we did receive payouts when the night started, so I was also able to observe the change taking into effect. On your post count, I do wonder if it is actually counted more leniently You see what happened when I got an extra rupee D1 was I helpfully informed Aman that he'd made a mistake and went about my day Guess I should have kept reading that thread I did get confirmation that the GM doesn't automatically give your rupees just for posting. There is an effort bar, albeit a low one. 11 minutes ago, Doc12 said: I don't quite like the line of thinking that we should be exeing people we want/don't want to be in the dead doc just yet. One last thing on that, our best option in a vacuum is testing people who are hardest to read due to their playstyle. Going to respond to Wahr in a merged post: 7 hours ago, Wahrheitswächter said: I thin Villagers will als care about getting maxium rupees for two reasons: a) the abillity to send PMs b) getting important roles for the Village. If the Village doesnt care about getting Rupees, the Village Players have access to potentially fewer and weaker masks, which is bad for us I don't disagree, but I'll note the difference between how you responded to this and how Burnt did. You laid out reasons that are pretty self-evident, while Burnt just said 'yeah, sue me :P'. It's elimmy to be worried about the perception of trying too hard, hence why I sussed Coder for being so self-conscious about it. Quote I dont remember how much was said about the NK in the rules for 16 Players, so I assumed it would probably function like the other game I played, where the Elims had to submitt it as an action, and if no one submitts one the NK would be Skipped Well yeah the only other game I played here had the option of skipable NK, so I dont think its weird for me to assume thats the case this time around as well, especially if the rules didnt say otherwise. Ultimately, if the elims were planning to skip the NK, they probably wouldn't be the first to discuss the possibility in thread. Quote Do you have some sort of Vendetta against me? In every game we played together (granted that this is only the second, but still) you voted for me the first Day that you could, but this time, I will vote you back Archer Me and half the players voted for you that round I tend to focus on inconsistencies, so we're a bad pairing. I do like the 'gosh, you suck!' energy of that vote, so I'll happily back off. Wahr The Unknown You had that one RP post that is stuck in my mind. I can't explain why I thought it was suspicious, and it's objectively not, but I keep going back to it. Spoiler
Through the living Wahr He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 7 hours ago, Archer said: Me and half the players voted for you that round I tend to focus on inconsistencies, so we're a bad pairing. I do like the 'gosh, you suck!' energy of that vote, so I'll happily back off. Wahr You were the one that initiated it though So, since I voted you as retaliation for you voting me, I too will rescind my Vote on Archer. That being Said, I now need to figure out who else I will vote on, but I will need to take another look at the current day to determine who I will place my Vote on Edited February 22 by Wahrheitswächter
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Wahrheitswächter said: That being Sad Oh no! Why were they sad??? 2 hours ago, Archer said: I meant that if you exe me, I might end up village confirmed. Quote also I NEED MORE RP ***** Wow not much to say for one of my 2 remaining discussion posts… ***** Yay! Discussion post! ***** So yeah, I mostly focused on fun RP and lore, while still trying to get my discussion posts in. Also, I was celebrating discussion post, because I had 2 discussion posts I needed to fufil this Night so I could get my max rupee gain. ^ this you? Yes? I mean I would assume you knew it was me... Since you gathered the quotes? Also, this may just be me saying something that has already been said, (there are too many smart people here T^T I can't say anything not said that is meaningful) but loosing the loop might be good for the village (besides the whole we have to get 3/3 on the next loops) in that it will hard confirm anyone who got voted out. As much as I hate to be suicidal, that kinda makes me want to get voted out. I like being hard cleared, what can I say? 3 hours ago, Doc12 said: I also agree that public information favors the village, as elims are much more powerful when villagers are too afraid to communicate to each other. Interesting, I must have missed that. Yeah I was trying to get my RP in last night because I realized I had more discussion posts than RP. But at that point in the night I had already shared my thoughts on players and there didn't seem much to discuss without a death so far. The funny thing is that last night I wouldn't have wanted to vote on Wonko or Archer because at that point we believed the elims intended to lose the loop, because that seemed to be the optimal strategy as stated by the above two. So I was not going to vote on them because I thought it better to keep an eye on them but deny them their requests to be voted just in case they were elims using us to put an elim in the dead doc. But now that there wasn't a NK and it seems like the plan is to win the loop, I'm not sure anymore. It doesn't make sense to want to be exed now that there's going to be a smaller pool - maybe 4? - of people that if the elims throw the loop they'll find themselves in. I don't quite like the line of thinking that we should be exeing people we want/don't want to be in the dead doc just yet. Maybe it's a good idea if we are going to get hard-cleared villagers, and having committed to no NK last night the elims might not be able to pivot their strategy... Still. I don't like how Wonko and Burnt and Mistfallen seem to be saying 'lets focus on people we trust and want in the dead doc' rather than exploring who they're actually suspicious of. I don't know, I said I would vote on people I'm suspicious of, and so I might still vote on Wonko and Archer, but I also want to avoid the entire cycle's discussion focusing on them. I'll do another reread and come back with a reads list later in the day. The problem is this ain't traditional PMs From what I'm reading it sounds more like once-per-cycle dead drops. I am still intending to PM people, but there isn't really going to be room for PM chatting. I'd quite like to be in a doc, but I'm not volunteering to be exed just yet. Also I don't have enough rupees to PM everyone, so don't be insulted if one of you doesn't get a PM. --------------------------- Thistle was walking. One foot in front of the other. They looked up every so often, each time surprised to see they were in a different place. Their shop. The South Gate. The road. Now by a forest. "...of explosions...single Skull Kid" "...missed smokehouses...meats....this is." People were speaking, but Thistle wasn't really hearing. Things had just stopped registering after the South Gate. "...moon... insane... girl...translate." "...cultists...world is a dream...dying god" Just this morning - yesterday morning? They hadn't slept... they had been excited and ready for the Carnival. Now they were...running? From who? From what? "explosions... so many didn’t make it... So many gone…" The Moon. The explosions. Thistle hadn't seen any masked people, but everyone was talking about a Skull kid... Thistle wasn't old enough to remember 33 years ago, but they knew the stories... People were already talking about the Moon. Thistle didn't want to look up to see what it looked like. They just wanted to keep walking. "they’re here...civilians...doing something so horrible" Thistle shook their head. Where was everyone? They remembered... the shop. The woman with the flute and fiery hair, and the other woman with a kind voice who had helped her pack... And Zymni.... they hadn't seen or heard Zymni since the explosions... and it was daytime... Then suddenly, their attention was drawn to - was that a Deku scrub? A walking one? No - it was... a being - it looked like someone wearing a deku mask but Thistle had no idea what body was - not Hylian, Zora, or Goron... Something about that strange sight made Thistle's brain start working again. It was a Deku that wasn't immediately hostile, that was interesting enough - a Deku trying to communicate? Thistle knew plants... Thistle could try and talk to it... Making their way over to the deku-person, Thistle examined the...mask? and the body - it was all woody and barklike... "H...Hello," Thistle said, falling into step beside them. "My name is Thistle... I'm a florist. I'd love to learn how to communicate with you, if you're willing to try..." "Hello." Squircle said, examining the newcomer. "I would love for you to try and communicate with them. It would be supremely helpful."
Myst He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 For the dead doc situation, my opinion is that we put one person in there that we think is elim, and then use the other slots to people we want to converse in dead doc. The reason being that it’s best to narrow down who we think is Elim. If we win the loop, the person we voted as Elim will most likely be Elim, and if not, we just cleared a sketchy person as well as gave our people time to communicate. Updates for who I think is Elim: Wonko, Honor, Spaghetti, and TUM. I’ll give reasons in a bit, I just don’t have time right now.
Hoid Slayer He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Okay so guys I haven't read through most of the game so far but instinct thoughts 14 hours ago, Archer said: You and Mistfallen can have village reads because e!you would know better than to mess with village confirmed!me. The nice thing about the skipped NK is we can actually apply pressure with our votes. If we win the cycle and there's a suspect pool of 2 or 3, that's bad news for them. I agree the NK skip indicates they plan to win the Loop. Probably the best strategy, which I was hoping to dissuade them from by threatening to develop a secret dead doc code etc. My hope was the elims freeze and default to a standard SE type kill and waited until later in the cycle to see if they wanted to NK one of their own. I was going to soft clear whoever was NKed. I’ve been tracking rupee accumulation. Aman changed the rules for C1 to allow excessive posts from one bucket to fill empty slots in the other bucket, so 7 RP + 3 Analysis = 10 rupees, instead of 8. I don’t think anyone knew that until now, so people likely tried to get 5+5. I expect the elims were gunning for maximum rupee acquisition, especially if they planned on skipping NKs. THat allows the elims to hide better, as the top earners aren’t being sniped every night. It’d be weird if the elims allowed a villager to reach a high level of rupees, so we’d suspect them. No NK also limits how many villagers get the 20 rupee starting amount C2 from being dead. While aiming to get rich is NAI, my theorized elim profile is: --Posts well beyond their usual profile. Villagers don’t tend to care as much, so elims are more likely to extend beyond their usual posting profile because the advantage matters more to them. –Posts near the end of N1 to squeeze in some more earnings, rather than accruing more organically. (Doc, Divergent, and Coder can have some mild sus for their end of N1, but I’m not pursuing this too hard.) –More inclined to RP than analyze because it can’t be read into. These numbers are wrong (due to the rule change and me doing it very quickly). The gist is: Mistfallen: A5, 5RP Wahr: A5, 5RP — Elim read. Outside of their output profile. I feel like they’re quieter usually. Coco: A5, 4RP Burnt: A4, 5RP — Elim read. More RP than analysis. Divergent: A5, 4RP Coder: A4, 5RP — Elim read. Coder has called out their intentions 4+ times, which feels excessive. First time felt villagery, now it’s weird to keep saying they’re going for max funds. Doc: A3, 5RP — Elim read. More RP than analysis. Wonko: A5, 2RP Hael: A3, 3RP TUO: A4, 2RP Araris: A4, 2RP — Village read. They clearly planned to RP more but fell into analysis instead. Ash: A2, 2RP Hoid Slayer: A0, 2RP — Village read. I believe some of their one sentence posts weren’t counted, but HS kept posting such posts. I feel like Aman would have flagged it to HS to post more if they wanted to get rupees. Honor: 0 TJ: 0 Wahr Edit: Wahr, can you tell me about this post? What made you think about the NK being skippable? I don't like how much Archer talks about what he would do as elim, or what he would suggest the elims do It just... feels off. I don't know. I don't see a reason for an elim to do it, but at the same time, I don't get why he's telling the elims how he was going to analyze them after a single cycle of them not doing what he was hoping for I mean... I guess I can understand it I'm not sure, and I'm not willing to stake a vote on it quite yet cause it is quite trivial, but it's there Also Archer yeah I have no real intention to gun for post count in this game, as I've stated before, this isn't receiving my full attention
Amanuensis he/him Posted February 22 Author Posted February 22 (edited) Ap the Apprentice The florist approached the way careful people approach unfamiliar animals — without sudden movement, without pretending the strangeness wasn't there, which the Apprentice appreciated more than she could currently express. Most of the people on the road had looked at her and then looked away with the particular speed of those who had already processed one too many impossible things before sunrise and had decided to stop accepting new ones. This one looked, and kept looking, and then walked over. "Hello. My name is Thistle. I'm a florist." The Apprentice looked at her. She looked at Squircle, who was listening with his arms folded and the expression of a person who had been trying to solve a problem for several hours and was genuinely pleased that someone else was attempting it. She looked back at Thistle. She tried. She always tried, because trying was the thing she had left. She pointed at herself. She held up both hands — not-quite hands, woody and strange at the ends of arms that bent differently than she was used to — and made the shape of something being removed, like a mask being lifted, and pointed at herself again underneath where the mask would be. A person. There is a person. She pointed at the Deku mask — her face, her face — and made the shape again. Not this. Something under this. Normal. Girl. Thistle's brow furrowed with the focused effort of someone genuinely trying to receive the message. The Apprentice let out a breath that came out as a low, reedy chord, and sat with the frustration of it. She had been sitting with the frustration of it since the shop, when she had tried to ask her grandfather a question and produced a sound like a flute that had not been taught language yet. There was a lot happening in her chest that had nowhere to go. Her grandfather was behind her, somewhere in the smoke she was walking away from, and the road kept moving under her smaller, stranger feet, and the moon was up there doing what it was doing, and she was not in her body, and she could not say any of it. A Clock Ward fell into step on her other side — one of the escort pair Vicsen had assigned to this group before he turned back toward the city, a woman in her thirties with a practical face and a crossbow she kept tilted away from the crowd out of training or courtesy or both. "If you're trying to talk to her," she said to Thistle, without judgment, "you won't get much until we reach the settlement. The Scrubs who came out to help — the ones who know the common tongue — they've mostly gone on ahead to warn the Queen." The Apprentice nodded, frowning. She pointed ahead, down the road, and made the shape of waiting with her hands — *soon* — and hoped it translated. Squircle said nothing, but something in his posture shifted slightly. Relief, maybe. Or at least the adjustment a person makes when a problem acquires a timeline. The road south ran out of Clock Town's stone and became packed earth, and then the earth became softer and darker and began to smell of green things and standing water, and somewhere around the halfway point the trees thickened on both sides and the light changed — filtered through canopy now, what little of the dawn had been making it through the smoke — and the Southern Swamp accepted them the way all swamps accept visitors: with complete indifference, and the immediate sense that the indifference might not last. The Deku Scrubs at the front of the column heard it first. It was not a sound exactly, or not only a sound — more a shift in the quality of the air, the way the noise of the swamp changed pitch the way a voice changes when it's trying not to say something. Then one of the Scrubs made a sharp clicking sound and the column slowed, and then the Ward at the front called *hold* and the column stopped, and the Apprentice went up on the tips of her new feet and looked. The Skulltulas came out of the canopy. Not one, not two — a cascade of them, dropping on silk from the branches above the road's edge, Gold Skulltulas and their smaller kin, which had no business being aggressive and were being aggressively aggressive, their legs moving in the fast territorial pattern that meant something had frightened them into attacking anything that moved. Behind them and to the left, a flock of Peahats came spinning out of the undergrowth without the usual warning display, straight to contact, their bladed petals catching the filtered light in arcs. Further back, deeper in the trees, something large was crashing through the undergrowth with the blind insistence of an animal that had stopped thinking and started running. And from the south-east, from deeper in the swamp, where the settlement should have been — smoke. Not thin smoke, not cook-fire smoke. The dark, committed kind. "Stalchildren on the east bank," the forward Ward shouted. "And something's spooked the Wolfos — I can hear them — " The Ward commander — not Vicsen, Danna, the youngest of his senior recruits and the one he'd left in charge of the escort — stepped out of the column and looked at the canopy and the smoke and the Peahats spinning closer and made the calculation in the way trained people make calculations, fast and without sentiment. "Escort Wards, stay with the column." He drew his sword. "Defensive perimeter, civilians in the center — you know the positions." He turned to the column, the full sweep of it, the refugees and the road-worn and the ones who had been marching all night on nothing. "Anyone with combat experience, I am asking for volunteers. Step forward now." He held eye contact with no one specific and everyone generally. "The Dekus' settlement is ahead and we need to reach it. Whatever is in this swamp between us and it, we need to move through it. I need people who can help me do that." The Peahats were thirty yards out and closing. The Apprentice looked at her not-quite hands. She thought about the bubbles in her chest, the spin, the way the body knew things she hadn't taught it yet. She thought about the looters on the floor of the shop, and then she stopped thinking and looked at Squircle. She pointed at the Peahats. She pointed at herself. Then she pointed at him, with the particular quality of pointing that meant: *together, and now, and are you ready.* Behind them, through the canopy, the smoke from the settlement rose in a column against the morning sky. It was getting darker. Whatever was happening in Woodfall was not waiting for them to arrive before getting worse. RP Quest: Fend off the aggravated wildlife on your way to Woodfall! Spoiler Edited February 22 by Amanuensis 2
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted February 22 Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, Amanuensis said: Ap the Apprentice The florist approached the way careful people approach unfamiliar animals — without sudden movement, without pretending the strangeness wasn't there, which the Apprentice appreciated more than she could currently express. Most of the people on the road had looked at her and then looked away with the particular speed of those who had already processed one too many impossible things before sunrise and had decided to stop accepting new ones. This one looked, and kept looking, and then walked over. "Hello. My name is Thistle. I'm a florist." The Apprentice looked at her. She looked at Squircle, who was listening with his arms folded and the expression of a person who had been trying to solve a problem for several hours and was genuinely pleased that someone else was attempting it. She looked back at Thistle. She tried. She always tried, because trying was the thing she had left. She pointed at herself. She held up both hands — not-quite hands, woody and strange at the ends of arms that bent differently than she was used to — and made the shape of something being removed, like a mask being lifted, and pointed at herself again underneath where the mask would be. A person. There is a person. She pointed at the Deku mask — her face, her face — and made the shape again. Not this. Something under this. Normal. Girl. Thistle's brow furrowed with the focused effort of someone genuinely trying to receive the message. The Apprentice let out a breath that came out as a low, reedy chord, and sat with the frustration of it. She had been sitting with the frustration of it since the shop, when she had tried to ask her grandfather a question and produced a sound like a flute that had not been taught language yet. There was a lot happening in her chest that had nowhere to go. Her grandfather was behind her, somewhere in the smoke she was walking away from, and the road kept moving under her smaller, stranger feet, and the moon was up there doing what it was doing, and she was not in her body, and she could not say any of it. A Clock Ward fell into step on her other side — one of the escort pair Vicsen had assigned to this group before he turned back toward the city, a woman in her thirties with a practical face and a crossbow she kept tilted away from the crowd out of training or courtesy or both. "If you're trying to talk to her," she said to Thistle, without judgment, "you won't get much until we reach the settlement. The Scrubs who came out to help — the ones who know the common tongue — they've mostly gone on ahead to warn the Queen." The Apprentice nodded, frowning. She pointed ahead, down the road, and made the shape of waiting with her hands — *soon* — and hoped it translated. Squircle said nothing, but something in his posture shifted slightly. Relief, maybe. Or at least the adjustment a person makes when a problem acquires a timeline. The road south ran out of Clock Town's stone and became packed earth, and then the earth became softer and darker and began to smell of green things and standing water, and somewhere around the halfway point the trees thickened on both sides and the light changed — filtered through canopy now, what little of the dawn had been making it through the smoke — and the Southern Swamp accepted them the way all swamps accept visitors: with complete indifference, and the immediate sense that the indifference might not last. The Deku Scrubs at the front of the column heard it first. It was not a sound exactly, or not only a sound — more a shift in the quality of the air, the way the noise of the swamp changed pitch the way a voice changes when it's trying not to say something. Then one of the Scrubs made a sharp clicking sound and the column slowed, and then the Ward at the front called *hold* and the column stopped, and the Apprentice went up on the tips of her new feet and looked. The Skulltulas came out of the canopy. Not one, not two — a cascade of them, dropping on silk from the branches above the road's edge, Gold Skulltulas and their smaller kin, which had no business being aggressive and were being aggressively aggressive, their legs moving in the fast territorial pattern that meant something had frightened them into attacking anything that moved. Behind them and to the left, a flock of Peahats came spinning out of the undergrowth without the usual warning display, straight to contact, their bladed petals catching the filtered light in arcs. Further back, deeper in the trees, something large was crashing through the undergrowth with the blind insistence of an animal that had stopped thinking and started running. And from the south-east, from deeper in the swamp, where the settlement should have been — smoke. Not thin smoke, not cook-fire smoke. The dark, committed kind. "Stalchildren on the east bank," the forward Ward shouted. "And something's spooked the Wolfos — I can hear them — " The Ward commander — not Vicsen, Danna, the youngest of his senior recruits and the one he'd left in charge of the escort — stepped out of the column and looked at the canopy and the smoke and the Peahats spinning closer and made the calculation in the way trained people make calculations, fast and without sentiment. "Escort Wards, stay with the column." He drew his sword. "Defensive perimeter, civilians in the center — you know the positions." He turned to the column, the full sweep of it, the refugees and the road-worn and the ones who had been marching all night on nothing. "Anyone with combat experience, I am asking for volunteers. Step forward now." He held eye contact with no one specific and everyone generally. "The Dekus' settlement is ahead and we need to reach it. Whatever is in this swamp between us and it, we need to move through it. I need people who can help me do that." The Peahats were thirty yards out and closing. The Apprentice looked at her not-quite hands. She thought about the bubbles in her chest, the spin, the way the body knew things she hadn't taught it yet. She thought about the looters on the floor of the shop, and then she stopped thinking and looked at Squircle. She pointed at the Peahats. She pointed at herself. Then she pointed at him, with the particular quality of pointing that meant: *together, and now, and are you ready.* Behind them, through the canopy, the smoke from the settlement rose in a column against the morning sky. It was getting darker. Whatever was happening in Woodfall was not waiting for them to arrive before getting worse. RP Quest: Fend off the aggravated wildlife on your way to Woodfall! Squircle sighed. "There goes a nice leisurely walk." He took out his pocket knife, and a staff he kept hidden away. He somewhat understood what the Deku was saying. We fight. Together. He could do that. That was one of the few things he could do. People assume Dragons don't like humans, or 'mortals'. That is flawed. Every Dragon is trained to learn how humans think, work, and talk. They are taught how to stay in human form near other humans, as humans like that. And they are always taught how to defend themselves without magic. Squircle was trained in martial arts, but he had some good knife and staff skills. Squircle hated being in human form, but Squircle would survive. And he would make sure everyone else did too. Squricle ran forwards with the strange creature who was slowly becoming his companion, and fought off the animals coming at them. As he fought with his knife, staff, and fists, he thought about the words of the great fairy once more. She mentioned a temporal anomaly. This anomaly seems to have been centered around this town, this route. This time frame. But where will it go? And how strong was the temporal anomaly that it was able to reach into another world with the Fountain of Time? Me being here alone is a big enough temporal anomaly... for it to be a mere after-affect... He thought for a few moments. I might need to memorize this day, and all that happened, so I could remember any suprises. Who knows, maybe there will be a next time. 1
Wonko the Sane he/him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 14 hours ago, Archer said: –Posts near the end of N1 to squeeze in some more earnings, rather than accruing more organically. (Doc, Divergent, and Coder can have some mild sus for their end of N1, but I’m not pursuing this too hard.) Why doesn't this put suspicion on me? I explicitly made sure to get extra posts in at the end of D1A in order to maximize rupees, and I said aloud that I was doing so. 14 hours ago, Archer said: Wonko: A5, 2RP I don't have the numbers on the rest, but you've miscounted my posts. I received the maximum 10 Rupees at the end of D1A, as I planned for and said I was going to. I would recount your data, given that. 13 hours ago, Divergent said: There is also the slim possibility that the player with the Bremen Mask successfully blocked the kill too, though I sort of doubt it I still stand by my claim. I don't disagree that publicized information benefits the village, but my issue with it was the timing of when you shared it. During D1, there were a sufficient number of players who were either too busy to read up on the mechanics or were still wrapping their heads around it, so there were good odds that the elim team could be fully comprised of these people. And it could have been likely that the person they kill on N1 would be village-aligned since 48 hours is a tight time that they may not have been able to come up with more complex strategies. You saying said information allowed the elims' strategy to progress more quickly. I feel that it also did limit information we could have gained if they had committed a night kill such as possible motivations to their choice of kill and a chance for an elim to be outed either via the use of the Bremen Mask or the activation of the Don Gero mask. But anyways, it already happened, so best we can do is try to pivot and come up with different strategies to counter what they know by now. Wonko This is where my vote will go for now, but I'd like to hear other thoughts you have on strategies we could take or reads on people (aside from the suspicion on Archer) I can understand that; it may well have been a mistake. As Archer pointed out, I robbed the elims of the opportunity to blunder. I tend to neglect the possibility of enemy errors in these games; unconsciously assuming optimum play from the other team. But regardless, I'm still confused about why you think it's alignment indicative. What is the motive for e!Wonko to make that mistake (if such it be) that v!Wonko wouldn't have? I'm sympathetic to Araris's argument that I'm being a little too passive, just sharing observations rather than proactively planning. But you seem to be arguing that my explaining strategies for the elims is suspicious behavior. Surely if I were an elim, and I wanted to alert the elims to that strategy, I would do it in the doc? 13 hours ago, Burnt Spaghetti said: Well thats an interesting start, and not particularly helpful for us. Was hoping to be able to focus reads based off the NK but the first death will be this exe then. So, elims want to win, and are limiting the pool of dead people for if they succeed is what i'm gathering. So. Hm. We want to exe elims of course, but I think we also want to be mindful of who we could be potentially having as a confirmed good player, because those players I would expect to start recieving a lot of information from people in the next loop. I certainly know that If I needed to tell someone in a pm about something a mask i had did, those would be who i'd contact, so Id want them to be people who are active, and able to communicate to thread what's going on and potentially lead exe's and manage all the incoming communication. So i'd be happy with people like Wonko and Archer to be going in for that. Potentially even both in case future loops they are picked off by elims immediately to stop the information being passed on. The smaller the trust circle, the easier it is for them to try control. If I was to pick my ideal trust circle, I'd have one of those two players, and someone good at/enjoys pm communications, like myself, Mistfallen (at least i think you do, since you seemed keen on postmaster, don't actually personally know how you play ) or Doc. Probably Araris too - I can never read Araris and they always seem to be some sort of quietly absurdly powerful that are super helpful or deadly especially late game. Someone who can help lead from the front, and someone who can help behind scenes. Thinky and chatty folks. Though, the pm situation is not really like what i'm used to so wont have the same level of utilization that I would like. So possibly more so the thinky people. Hael? So. I'll be thinking about not so much who I think is the evillest, but more so out of the potentially evil options, who do i really hope to be actually good the most. Time to go reread posts and try pick up some vibes. I've been mostly just focusing on mechanics and rp at this stage while the game information was limited, so i'll try share reads a bit later on. And yes i know i was trying to get more coin end of cycle How else am i going to send my invitations out for a performance thats totally happening soon in the totally fine town! A girl needs money for stamps! This is more or less the motive behind my Archer vote. I have suspicions about him, but they're not well-formed yet. However, he's also in my opinion the number one best Villager for us to kill right now. As for me, I was kind of hoping on farming rupees this loop, but I'm also open to being a sacrifice; I'm definitely vocal enough to be a good choice of villager to confirm (though I also think that I'm only mediocre at the game, which makes me slightly less ideal). 13 hours ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: Also, again, everyone, the Elims have committed pretty much to trying to win loop 1. We need to solve this, meaning we have to be very intentional with who we get out. I’ve seen Wonko, Wahr, and Archer up for exe. Out of those three. I’ve seen more of Archer, plus Archer himself… which actually makes me inclined to trust him…. As an Elim, there’s no reason to volunteer for exe and then try to win loop 1 as Elim… I’ll have to think more, but I’m also at a dance right now, so… idk As I mentioned before, my gut on this tells me that decision was a pivot in response to the discussion D1A. So they originally planned to lie low, but having so much attention called to that strategy motivated them to switch it up and go for the riskier play, to avoid predictability. I could very well see Archer making that call. In particular, there's a light in which his initial response to me can read as attempting to get out in front of me calling exactly what he had been planning up to that point. It's only a moderate suspicion, but combined with the fact he's a pretty good choice of exe even if he's a Villager is what motivates my vote. 13 hours ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: If you want a PM person, go with Doc. I myself am good in a doc, but not PMs, that’s doc, he is so good with them. That said, who do you trust more? If we’re exing for dead doc, it should just be people we trust. That should come above problem solving. That said, I would prefer to not die today, for reasons I would not like to reveal yet This... feels distinctly like a mask claim, no? Like, barely even an attempt was made to disguise that. I don't know you very well, so I can't really assess how this indicates your alignment, but it feels like you want us to think you have a mask, while making it seem like you're hiding it. If you genuinely are hiding it, that was... not very subtle. 12 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: I am fairly thinky Although not 100% if I would be someone you are going for. I doo like the idea of being in a trust circle (who doesn't?) Are you asking to be exed? That's what Burnt was talking about there, and it's seemed up to this point like you were at best neutral on the possibility of you dying. What's changed? 12 hours ago, Wahrheitswächter said: Do you have some sort of Vendetta against me? In every game we played together (granted that this is only the second, but still) you voted for me the first Day that you could, but this time, I will vote you back Archer Do you have any actual justification for that vote? Because I'm very wary of a vote that supports an existing train, apparently cast entirely for playful reasons. 12 hours ago, Wahrheitswächter said: I dont remember how much was said about the NK in the rules for 16 Players, so I assumed it would probably function like the other game I played, where the Elims had to submitt it as an action, and if no one submitts one the NK would be Skipped Well yeah the only other game I played here had the option of skipable NK, so I dont think its weird for me to assume thats the case this time around as well, especially if the rules didnt say otherwise. The question isn't how you guessed that it was allowed. It's why the thought jumped to mind for you when no one else was yet considering it. What specifically brought it to your mind as something the elims might choose to do? 5 hours ago, Doc12 said: The funny thing is that last night I wouldn't have wanted to vote on Wonko or Archer because at that point we believed the elims intended to lose the loop, because that seemed to be the optimal strategy as stated by the above two. So I was not going to vote on them because I thought it better to keep an eye on them but deny them their requests to be voted just in case they were elims using us to put an elim in the dead doc. But now that there wasn't a NK and it seems like the plan is to win the loop, I'm not sure anymore. It doesn't make sense to want to be exed now that there's going to be a smaller pool - maybe 4? - of people that if the elims throw the loop they'll find themselves in. Well, my suspicion with Archer would be that he initially DID plan on losing the round, but pivoted in response to the discussion. Given that, he'd still have to verbally commit to his prior claim that he'd be happy to be exed, while hoping that it doesn't actually happen. Notably, while his volunteering has been repeatedly brought up today, he hasn't directly commented on it whatsoever, and has instead been actively working on solving for a different person to kill today. Now, that can also be explained as him reacting to the lack of an NK with a more focused desire to exe an elim, but I do think it's worth paying attention to. 5 hours ago, Doc12 said: I don't quite like the line of thinking that we should be exeing people we want/don't want to be in the dead doc just yet. Maybe it's a good idea if we are going to get hard-cleared villagers, and having committed to no NK last night the elims might not be able to pivot their strategy... Still. I don't like how Wonko and Burnt and Mistfallen seem to be saying 'lets focus on people we trust and want in the dead doc' rather than exploring who they're actually suspicious of. Now hold on, neither Burnt nor I was saying that. We both said that we should be looking for an elim if possible, BUT that we should as a secondary consideration be thinking of what the list of dead players will look like if we DO lose the Loop. Archer absolutely IS one of my bigger suspicions, for reasons I outlined as I voted for him. He's just ALSO the person I'm happiest misexing if my suspicions are wrong. 5 hours ago, Doc12 said: The problem is this ain't traditional PMs From what I'm reading it sounds more like once-per-cycle dead drops. I am still intending to PM people, but there isn't really going to be room for PM chatting. I'd quite like to be in a doc, but I'm not volunteering to be exed just yet. Also I don't have enough rupees to PM everyone, so don't be insulted if one of you doesn't get a PM. You also can't send Post more than 5 people in a cycle, if I'm understanding the rules correctly. 5 hours ago, Archer said: Please do not claim this until L2D1. Worth discussing the possibility once we see what happens after L1N2. I mean, or until they've used the mask twice, right? Once they no longer have the powers, I don't see any harm in revealing what they did with them. 5 hours ago, Archer said: Re: Elim strats: I usually start the game with a discussion prompt to get reactions. My plan was the one I had pre-written, to be posted D2. Didn't realize it wasn't a very original idea. Wonko's post made me move up the timeline. Further discussion was mostly to try for a freeze reaction. What I didn't want was an elim team that confidently knew what they wanted to do, in hopes they'd default to a standard NK. Did you seriously think that was a possibility after the discussion that day? What would their thought process have been, in your mind -- after reading our explanation of the dynamics at play -- that would lead them to still default to treating this like a normal game? 5 hours ago, Archer said: I don't disagree, but I'll note the difference between how you responded to this and how Burnt did. You laid out reasons that are pretty self-evident, while Burnt just said 'yeah, sue me :P'. It's elimmy to be worried about the perception of trying too hard, hence why I sussed Coder for being so self-conscious about it. I see your thinking, but I really don't see it as particularly indicative on Burnt. She does not fold easily under pressure, as I recall; her response is totally in character with what e!Burnt would have said. 5 hours ago, Archer said: Ultimately, if the elims were planning to skip the NK, they probably wouldn't be the first to discuss the possibility in thread. Does it read to you like it was a premeditated decision, unmotivated by the discussion that day? That seems notably less likely than the alternative, to me. 2 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: Also, this may just be me saying something that has already been said, (there are too many smart people here T^T I can't say anything not said that is meaningful) but loosing the loop might be good for the village (besides the whole we have to get 3/3 on the next loops) in that it will hard confirm anyone who got voted out. As much as I hate to be suicidal, that kinda makes me want to get voted out. I like being hard cleared, what can I say? Huh. Yes, that is you saying something that has already been said, like, a lot. It has been THE biggest discussion topic so far this game. Which, honestly, kind of raises your trust level for me? I feel like you would have been made aware of this in the doc. 1 hour ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: For the dead doc situation, my opinion is that we put one person in there that we think is elim, and then use the other slots to people we want to converse in dead doc. The reason being that it’s best to narrow down who we think is Elim. If we win the loop, the person we voted as Elim will most likely be Elim, and if not, we just cleared a sketchy person as well as gave our people time to communicate. The issue with that is that if there's an elim in there, the dead doc is a terrible place for private communication, and they don't get to know whether it's safe until AFTER they're done communicating there. Not saying we shouldn't be going for elims -- we should -- but I'd caution very strongly against treating the dead doc like a PM if we do.
Divergent He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 6 hours ago, Doc12 said: I don't know, I said I would vote on people I'm suspicious of, and so I might still vote on Wonko and Archer, but I also want to avoid the entire cycle's discussion focusing on them. I'll do another reread and come back with a reads list later in the day. I fully agree with this. I feel like focusing only on the both of them for this cycle would not be very productive, and it also lets other elims (or all the elims if both are v) slip under the radar. 1 hour ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: Updates for who I think is Elim: Wonko, Honor, Spaghetti, and TUM. I’ll give reasons in a bit, I just don’t have time right now. I'm coming around to the idea that Honor is elim. You mentioned that elim's previous experience of being elim was in the AG and part of the reason for her being voted out was for having a higher post volume, but that a decent amount of those posts were filler posts or CWAC (contributing without actually contributing via posting vote counts). So, I could see the angle where she's course correcting from that game and having a difficulty entering into the game in a natural way. It pinged me when I saw that she made after the night was locked, making me think that she really has been following the thread, but simply choosing not to post at all.
Divergent He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 19 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said: I don't have the numbers on the rest, but you've miscounted my posts. I received the maximum 10 Rupees at the end of D1A, as I planned for and said I was going to. I would recount your data, given that. I can understand that; it may well have been a mistake. As Archer pointed out, I robbed the elims of the opportunity to blunder. I tend to neglect the possibility of enemy errors in these games; unconsciously assuming optimum play from the other team. But regardless, I'm still confused about why you think it's alignment indicative. What is the motive for e!Wonko to make that mistake (if such it be) that v!Wonko wouldn't have? I'm sympathetic to Araris's argument that I'm being a little too passive, just sharing observations rather than proactively planning. But you seem to be arguing that my explaining strategies for the elims is suspicious behavior. Surely if I were an elim, and I wanted to alert the elims to that strategy, I would do it in the doc? You received the maximum? I did only take a glance at the top posters area in that thread and saw you made 9 posts, so I guess depending on the volume of the content, a single post actually could be counted as more than one post? There were two possible angles I saw for it. One was that it was a perspective slip, where it unconsciously slipped out that you were thinking from the perspective of an elim. That said, you raise a fair point on that, which makes me think it's unlikely that that was the case. The other angle I had thought of was that it could be that you were setting up the narrative that we should be suspicious of the people who get night killed, and as I mentioned earlier, it was more of it being a timing thing, where it was a little too early (even before a kill happened) for it to have been introduced. That said, I was rereading your posts and I saw one line in particular. "It's [Postman's Hat] most usable disseminating critical information without revealing it to the whole thread." I'd like to hear your thoughts on how to put this in practice like what information should be shared specifically and how people would come to a decision on who to send said information to.
Amanuensis he/him Posted February 22 Author Posted February 22 A single post could be half discussion and half RP, so that would count for 2
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted February 22 Posted February 22 46 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said: Why doesn't this put suspicion on me? I explicitly made sure to get extra posts in at the end of D1A in order to maximize rupees, and I said aloud that I was doing so. I don't have the numbers on the rest, but you've miscounted my posts. I received the maximum 10 Rupees at the end of D1A, as I planned for and said I was going to. I would recount your data, given that. I can understand that; it may well have been a mistake. As Archer pointed out, I robbed the elims of the opportunity to blunder. I tend to neglect the possibility of enemy errors in these games; unconsciously assuming optimum play from the other team. But regardless, I'm still confused about why you think it's alignment indicative. What is the motive for e!Wonko to make that mistake (if such it be) that v!Wonko wouldn't have? I'm sympathetic to Araris's argument that I'm being a little too passive, just sharing observations rather than proactively planning. But you seem to be arguing that my explaining strategies for the elims is suspicious behavior. Surely if I were an elim, and I wanted to alert the elims to that strategy, I would do it in the doc? This is more or less the motive behind my Archer vote. I have suspicions about him, but they're not well-formed yet. However, he's also in my opinion the number one best Villager for us to kill right now. As for me, I was kind of hoping on farming rupees this loop, but I'm also open to being a sacrifice; I'm definitely vocal enough to be a good choice of villager to confirm (though I also think that I'm only mediocre at the game, which makes me slightly less ideal). As I mentioned before, my gut on this tells me that decision was a pivot in response to the discussion D1A. So they originally planned to lie low, but having so much attention called to that strategy motivated them to switch it up and go for the riskier play, to avoid predictability. I could very well see Archer making that call. In particular, there's a light in which his initial response to me can read as attempting to get out in front of me calling exactly what he had been planning up to that point. It's only a moderate suspicion, but combined with the fact he's a pretty good choice of exe even if he's a Villager is what motivates my vote. This... feels distinctly like a mask claim, no? Like, barely even an attempt was made to disguise that. I don't know you very well, so I can't really assess how this indicates your alignment, but it feels like you want us to think you have a mask, while making it seem like you're hiding it. If you genuinely are hiding it, that was... not very subtle. Are you asking to be exed? That's what Burnt was talking about there, and it's seemed up to this point like you were at best neutral on the possibility of you dying. What's changed? Do you have any actual justification for that vote? Because I'm very wary of a vote that supports an existing train, apparently cast entirely for playful reasons. The question isn't how you guessed that it was allowed. It's why the thought jumped to mind for you when no one else was yet considering it. What specifically brought it to your mind as something the elims might choose to do? Well, my suspicion with Archer would be that he initially DID plan on losing the round, but pivoted in response to the discussion. Given that, he'd still have to verbally commit to his prior claim that he'd be happy to be exed, while hoping that it doesn't actually happen. Notably, while his volunteering has been repeatedly brought up today, he hasn't directly commented on it whatsoever, and has instead been actively working on solving for a different person to kill today. Now, that can also be explained as him reacting to the lack of an NK with a more focused desire to exe an elim, but I do think it's worth paying attention to. Now hold on, neither Burnt nor I was saying that. We both said that we should be looking for an elim if possible, BUT that we should as a secondary consideration be thinking of what the list of dead players will look like if we DO lose the Loop. Archer absolutely IS one of my bigger suspicions, for reasons I outlined as I voted for him. He's just ALSO the person I'm happiest misexing if my suspicions are wrong. You also can't send Post more than 5 people in a cycle, if I'm understanding the rules correctly. I mean, or until they've used the mask twice, right? Once they no longer have the powers, I don't see any harm in revealing what they did with them. Did you seriously think that was a possibility after the discussion that day? What would their thought process have been, in your mind -- after reading our explanation of the dynamics at play -- that would lead them to still default to treating this like a normal game? I see your thinking, but I really don't see it as particularly indicative on Burnt. She does not fold easily under pressure, as I recall; her response is totally in character with what e!Burnt would have said. Does it read to you like it was a premeditated decision, unmotivated by the discussion that day? That seems notably less likely than the alternative, to me. Huh. Yes, that is you saying something that has already been said, like, a lot. It has been THE biggest discussion topic so far this game. Which, honestly, kind of raises your trust level for me? I feel like you would have been made aware of this in the doc. The issue with that is that if there's an elim in there, the dead doc is a terrible place for private communication, and they don't get to know whether it's safe until AFTER they're done communicating there. Not saying we shouldn't be going for elims -- we should -- but I'd caution very strongly against treating the dead doc like a PM if we do. I am fairly neutral to being exed, as it has its pros and cons. On the one hand, moneh, on the other hand, hard clear. I also don't paticularially see the money as that big a deal, (especially if you are without the postman's or bunny) (because then you would be wanting to aim for the FD) and the trust circle is a valuble thing. But no, I did not fully clock that burnt spaghetti was talking about death, but I am starting to see the light on why dying may be a good things (albiet not for Squircle).
Archer he/him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Divergent said: It pinged me when I saw that she made after the night was locked, making me think that she really has been following the thread, but simply choosing not to post at all. I'm bad at reading low actives, so I'm fine with y'all making this mountain out of a molehill. 1 hour ago, Wonko the Sane said: Why doesn't this put suspicion on me? I explicitly made sure to get extra posts in at the end of D1A in order to maximize rupees, and I said aloud that I was doing so. I don't have the numbers on the rest, but you've miscounted my posts. I received the maximum 10 Rupees at the end of D1A, as I planned for and said I was going to. I would recount your data, given that. You were under suspicion for other things, I'm trying to spread the sus around. I definitely miscounted the rupees because I didn't count past 5 for each bucket. Part of the reason I posted the list is because it's not very useful for NK targeting. The posting trends are more useful for exing. Quote Are you asking to be exed? That's what Burnt was talking about there, and it's seemed up to this point like you were at best neutral on the possibility of you dying. What's changed? I covered this in one of my first posts of the round; no NK changes the game. We can assume the elims now want to avoid dying, so it's a waste to throw the exe on purpose. Quote I mean, or until they've used the mask twice, right? Once they no longer have the powers, I don't see any harm in revealing what they did with them. I guess, especially if they feel they may have blocked the kill. Quote Did you seriously think that was a possibility after the discussion that day? What would their thought process have been, in your mind -- after reading our explanation of the dynamics at play -- that would lead them to still default to treating this like a normal game? "Hey boss, what do we do?" "Sssslay them all!" "I dunno boss, this Archer guy makes some points that challenge my instinctive plan of action." "Sssseemsssss like we sssshould wait then, and ssssee what happenssss. Kill ssssome random villager for now." Quote I see your thinking, but I really don't see it as particularly indicative on Burnt. She does not fold easily under pressure, as I recall; her response is totally in character with what e!Burnt would have said. Logic is something like not everyone who plays it cool will be villager, but everyone who over-reacts will be elim. Wahr immediately withdrawing the OMGYS vote is pretty villagery, so moving on from that. Quote The issue with that is that if there's an elim in there, the dead doc is a terrible place for private communication, and they don't get to know whether it's safe until AFTER they're done communicating there. Not saying we shouldn't be going for elims -- we should -- but I'd caution very strongly against treating the dead doc like a PM if we do. Dead doc members should create a code for private communication in-thread the following loop. If the elims are giving us a trust circle, we're going to leverage it to it's full extent.
|TJ| he/him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 Proof of life update: Spontaneous out-of-town plans further kept me away from the game. But I'm back now, and there shouldn't be anything else keeping me from getting involved and catching up on the game, except sleep. I'm sorry again, but expect to hear back from in ~16 hours. [@Amanuensis] 1
Myst He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wonko the Sane said: This is more or less the motive behind my Archer vote. I have suspicions about him, but they're not well-formed yet. However, he's also in my opinion the number one best Villager for us to kill right now. As for me, I was kind of hoping on farming rupees this loop, but I'm also open to being a sacrifice; I'm definitely vocal enough to be a good choice of villager to confirm (though I also think that I'm only mediocre at the game, which makes me slightly less ideal). As I mentioned before, my gut on this tells me that decision was a pivot in response to the discussion D1A. So they originally planned to lie low, but having so much attention called to that strategy motivated them to switch it up and go for the riskier play, to avoid predictability. I could very well see Archer making that call. In particular, there's a light in which his initial response to me can read as attempting to get out in front of me calling exactly what he had been planning up to that point. It's only a moderate suspicion, but combined with the fact he's a pretty good choice of exe even if he's a Villager is what motivates my vote. This... feels distinctly like a mask claim, no? Like, barely even an attempt was made to disguise that. I don't know you very well, so I can't really assess how this indicates your alignment, but it feels like you want us to think you have a mask, while making it seem like you're hiding it. If you genuinely are hiding it, that was... not very subtle. The issue with that is that if there's an elim in there, the dead doc is a terrible place for private communication, and they don't get to know whether it's safe until AFTER they're done communicating there. Not saying we shouldn't be going for elims -- we should -- but I'd caution very strongly against treating the dead doc like a PM if we do. Considering you have said you don’t know my playstyle, I do find it weird that you think I’d be a “good village to exe” but that’s not really alignment indicative. As for the mask. At this point, about half the people should have one. The 12 people who don’t have a blue mask can all go for the 4 red masks. I don’t think it’s too much of an info reveal to say that, especially since I didn’t say which. Uncertainty over blast and dorongo kinda make it not too much of a problem. As for an Elim being there, it’s not too much different from 4 Elims being in thread. 18 minutes ago, Archer said: I'm bad at reading low actives, so I'm fine with y'all making this mountain out of a molehill. You were under suspicion for other things, I'm trying to spread the sus around. I definitely miscounted the rupees because I didn't count past 5 for each bucket. Part of the reason I posted the list is because it's not very useful for NK targeting. The posting trends are more useful for exing. I covered this in one of my first posts of the round; no NK changes the game. We can assume the elims now want to avoid dying, so it's a waste to throw the exe on purpose. I guess, especially if they feel they may have blocked the kill. "Hey boss, what do we do?" "Sssslay them all!" "I dunno boss, this Archer guy makes some points that challenge my instinctive plan of action." "Sssseemsssss like we sssshould wait then, and ssssee what happenssss. Kill ssssome random villager for now." Logic is something like not everyone who plays it cool will be villager, but everyone who over-reacts will be elim. Wahr immediately withdrawing the OMGYS vote is pretty villagery, so moving on from that. Dead doc members should create a code for private communication in-thread the following loop. If the elims are giving us a trust circle, we're going to leverage it to it's full extent. Agreed, cleared dead doc members should be the people we listen to the most. Plus that lets them share info like masks without too much trouble Edit: sorry, I forgot to post my reasons for Burnt and TUM as Elims. Once someone posts I’ll put it in thread Edited February 22 by Mistfallen Soldier
Myst He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 (edited) Burnt and TUM(I can’t be bothered to fix the font Spoiler Okay, here’s my reasons for Burnt and TUM. TUM: okay, basically, how he’s acting now was how he acted when I was Elim with him. The strat we did then was have me and Stick do thread control while he stayed back to ensure we didn’t all die from people being sus of me and Stick. (Saying this kinda makes me suspicious of myself lol) he’s acting very similar. Burnt: on one hand, she’s been very Rp minded, on the other hand, she did admit it in one of her posts, saying she’ll post reads later, so I will have to look at that to see if she actually starts more analysis(this will probably be the most indicative of alingment) however, she still hasn’t committed much to the general discussion. I am a bit wary that Wonko said she was acting Elim-y, not sure what to make of it, but if everyone here, I think she’s less trustworthy than the other people I’m not sure about. I feel confident that once she gives her analysis I’ll be much more confident in my read of her, whether it’s Elim or village after then Also, some other thoughts I’ve had. Ultimately, we won’t know whether or not we have a trust circle until the end of the loop. What this means is that during the loop, we cannot trust the other people in the loop(edit: dead doc, I mis-wrote), meaning the only thing we can do is make a code. Otherwise it’s basically the thread, but smaller. Another thing we need to be aware of is the captains hat. The person able to read the dead doc can write in it, but doesn’t have to, meaning they can just stalk the dead doc, not revealing themselves, making it so that we have a person(who we potentially don’t know) who isn’t verified, able to read the code that is made up. All of this to say that I think that we should be trying for Elims, not a trust circle. I’ve been a bit back and forth on this, but considering the dead doc isn’t secure(unless one of the people we exe is revealed to have the captains mask) we can’t really trust it. Edited February 22 by Mistfallen Soldier Said loop instead of dead doc
Through the living Wahr He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said: Do you have any actual justification for that vote? Because I'm very wary of a vote that supports an existing train, apparently cast entirely for playful reasons. well it was just a retaliation Vote, and you may have noticed that i have withdrawn it already And what exactly make you so sus of retaliation votes? 2 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said: The question isn't how you guessed that it was allowed. It's why the thought jumped to mind for you when no one else was yet considering it. What specifically brought it to your mind as something the elims might choose to do? I dont think it was that big of a jump, the memory of it was still relatively fresh and I was looking if I could see potential holes in the proposed strategy, Also I noticed that Ash has been relatively quiet, he has 3 RP post (one per turn) and his discussion amoun to: "no room for error will probably result in errors" "what if rupees are kept after death?" "Never mind they arent?" I know that Honor and TJ have been even more absent, but TJs updates on being busy right now strike me as genuine, and I find Honors complete lack of participation less suspicious as Ashbringers, because at first glance there is engagement from him, but it doesnt amount to anything. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RP: The Group was moving again, seemingly towards a Deku settlement, hopefully they had a Doctor there, or he would find one in the group of people, Thistles herb still numbed the Pain in Wahis Knee and Arm, but he didnt knew how long the effect would hold, it seemed like that it was less effective now then after taking it, the splint holding his broken arm was functional but he noticed that it was a makeshift one. After a short bit of travel a lot of strange and dangerous wild life attacked the tross of people travelling toward the Deku settlement, Wahi moved towards the center of the Group, he wouldnt be much help in fighting those things, as he rellay didnt know anything he also didnt know how to fight, at least he thought so, it was possible that he had once known how to fight and that it woud come instinctively but even then, with a broken arm he would be more a danger to himself and others than any actually help 1
Hoid Slayer He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 30 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: Burnt and TUM(I can’t be bothered to fix the font Hide contents Okay, here’s my reasons for Burnt and TUM. TUM: okay, basically, how he’s acting now was how he acted when I was Elim with him. The strat we did then was have me and Stick do thread control while he stayed back to ensure we didn’t all die from people being sus of me and Stick. (Saying this kinda makes me suspicious of myself lol) he’s acting very similar. Burnt: on one hand, she’s been very Rp minded, on the other hand, she did admit it in one of her posts, saying she’ll post reads later, so I will have to look at that to see if she actually starts more analysis(this will probably be the most indicative of alingment) however, she still hasn’t committed much to the general discussion. I am a bit wary that Wonko said she was acting Elim-y, not sure what to make of it, but if everyone here, I think she’s less trustworthy than the other people I’m not sure about. I feel confident that once she gives her analysis I’ll be much more confident in my read of her, whether it’s Elim or village after then Also, some other thoughts I’ve had. Ultimately, we won’t know whether or not we have a trust circle until the end of the loop. What this means is that during the loop, we cannot trust the other people in the loop(edit: dead doc, I mis-wrote), meaning the only thing we can do is make a code. Otherwise it’s basically the thread, but smaller. Another thing we need to be aware of is the captains hat. The person able to read the dead doc can write in it, but doesn’t have to, meaning they can just stalk the dead doc, not revealing themselves, making it so that we have a person(who we potentially don’t know) who isn’t verified, able to read the code that is made up. All of this to say that I think that we should be trying for Elims, not a trust circle. I’ve been a bit back and forth on this, but considering the dead doc isn’t secure(unless one of the people we exe is revealed to have the captains mask) we can’t really trust it. Agree with Mistfallen on dead doc security I really don’t think we can get that much info transferred in a code, unless y’all wanna start talking like hwys leve kwudjew? which is gonna get annoying real quick, and hinges entirely on us not getting any elims which like is what we want to do I have 1% battery and don’t really know how to explain myself but yeah
Myst He/Him Posted February 22 Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said: well it was just a retaliation Vote, and you may have noticed that i have withdrawn it already And what exactly make you so sus of retaliation votes? The thing is, is that it’s an overreaction. there’s more than 24 hours left in the cycle, just because you got voted now doesn’t mean you’ll be in any danger then. Also, it doesn’t make sense. No one is a perfect village, people make decisions that seem weird even if it makes sense to you. Getting votes just means Archer thinks there’s a possibility of you being Elim. And like, he knows just as much as everyone else, there’s no reason to get mad at him unless you are a Elim. Basically, retaliation votes don’t make sense unless you’re an Elim. Self-preservation can and does make sense. I know I’m village, and so to me it’s better that someone who may not be village dies than I do, but here, not only are we not in a self preservation situation, but dying here could potentially be a clear.
coco.pudding she/they Posted February 22 Posted February 22 38 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said: Also, some other thoughts I’ve had. Ultimately, we won’t know whether or not we have a trust circle until the end of the loop. What this means is that during the loop, we cannot trust the other people in the loop, meaning the only thing we can do is make a code. Otherwise it’s basically the thread, but smaller. Another thing we need to be aware of is the captains hat. The person able to read the dead doc can write in it, but doesn’t have to, meaning they can just stalk the dead doc, not revealing themselves, making it so that we have a person(who we potentially don’t know) who isn’t verified, able to read the code that is made up. All of this to say that I think that we should be trying for Elims, not a trust circle. I’ve been a bit back and forth on this, but considering the dead doc isn’t secure(unless one of the people we exe is revealed to have the captains mask) we can’t really trust it. This is kind of what I’ve been thinking too. I do think a trust circle makes sense, it would be great to have some people (especially more advanced players) who can all freely share information and reads and whatever, as well as strategizing with no risk of the elims catching onto that strategy and somehow thwarting it using that information. The main problem I see with this (which you just pointed out) is that those players won’t know until next loop if they can all be trusted, and with the way pms work there’s not really a good way to continue communicating unless they’re all in the dead doc again. We have been discussing a code but even if a decent code could be developed, we again wouldn’t know if the players who know it can be trusted until the next loop. They could develop a code and then find out there’s an elim who knows it, which would just ruin the whole purpose. The captains hat is another interesting point there, I think we have to assume the dead doc is never secure. I’m not sure how many people had enough to potentially buy it, I’m not quite done with my rupee tallies since I’ve been busy all day but I’ll get back to you on that soon if anyone thinks that may be useful information. I don’t think many people got to 20 in time, but I could be wrong. Some of those people could also have bought blues and therefore didn’t actually have the funds for a red. Okay so that was a lot of analyzing about the dead doc (and some repetition of what others have been saying, it just helps my brain to see it all in one place and hopefully that’s helpful for others too). Sorry about that, I have a tendency toward over analysis of very small things. I guess that’s probably a good thing for this game though. So. My thoughts on current strategy. I feel like we should be trying to exe an elim at least for this day. Depending on how they react to whoever we exe, we can decide what to do for D3 but I don’t think we should be counting on the dead doc as a safe place to discuss strategy or a place to put our best players so they can be cleared, because ultimately we don’t know if they will be cleared or not, and won’t until next loop. So my vote for today at least is to actually try to get an elim out. Which I think most people seem to be agreeing on? Just wanted to put my opinion on the matter out there. Sorry I’m a little late to this particular train, like I said earlier I’ve been pretty busy today. 23 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said: I know that Honor and TJ have been even more absent, but TJs updates on being busy right now strike me as genuine, and I find Honors complete lack of participation less suspicious as Ashbringers, because at first glance there is engagement from him, but it doesnt amount to anything. Thats actually a pretty interesting angle. You’re saying we shouldn’t be looking for complete lack of participation but instead people who have been doing the bare minimum in terms of participation? I do agree it’s a bit odd that Ashbringer both has barely said anything but also hasn’t offered any justification for why. At least the other two have said they’re busy and will try to catch up soon. (Or at least TJ has. I feel like Honor has too but I might be imagining that) 6 minutes ago, Hoid Slayer said: I really don’t think we can get that much info transferred in a code, unless y’all wanna start talking like hwys leve kwudjew? which is gonna get annoying real quick, and hinges entirely on us not getting any elims which like is what we want to do I have 1% battery and don’t really know how to explain myself but yeah That would be pretty annoying. Anyways hopefully what I said above is sort of what you were thinking? ————————— As hostile creatures begin pouring out of the canopy above, Amora unsheathes the sword she grabbed off a dead Clock Ward back in the town (this totally happened, I’m not just making it up for plot purposes right now, nooo) and moves to defend the small group she has found herself with, making sure the injured man, the Deku child, and the others who looked too injured or too in shock to fight are safely in the middle. “We need to form a line!” She calls out to the others who look like they may be able to fight. “Defend the ones who can’t fight, make sure nothing gets through to them!” With that, she steps boldly outward, slashing at an approaching Peahat and taking up a position next to Squircle, defending him from the side and trusting him to protect her as well. She hasn’t fought like this in years, but in the heat of combat muscle memory comes rushing back. She knows how to hold a line. So hold it she shall.
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