Long Game 110? [Sign Ups]: Termina Abandoned (A Majora's Mask Mafia Adventure)

[|TJ| he/him]

59 minutes ago, Stick. said:

can someone remind me why doc and burnt cannot be e/e? Was it just a vote from some previous cycle? or just link to a post explaining it 

This is what I found in my initial ISO of Doc. Now, I'm not quite sure. 

[Stick. she/her]

@|TJ| preflip burnt e - why do u think she didn’t self pres there? L2D1. genuine q cuz i think there might be something there. iirc both divergent and burnt were p on top of activity requirements rupees wise 

 

this is what she said abt it if it matters:

 

was it the elims planning to use the loop? It was d1 after all, so could possibly indicate a busser in doc. But then, dunno why this team makes the explicit decision to win L1 and enters L2 trying to lose it. Maybe if dive and burnt are both e, but I still lean v on dive 

 

was she just frozen? possible i guess (the ash vote comes pretty last minute). maybe both? 

 

 

[|TJ| he/him]

38 minutes ago, Stick. said:

was she just frozen? possible i guess (the ash vote comes pretty last minute). maybe both? 

I don't know if she was online when it happened but remember that Archer was on Burnt and maybe she knew he would shift? 

Sequence of events - 

• Burnt votes me here. I don't know, I keep flip-flopping about them. This feels like an LHF vote, where they don't know who else to vote for, and I was an easy target. 
• Doc votes Burnt and it's 3-3-2-2 now. (Mist-Burnt-Stick-Divergent)
• Ash moves from Mist to Burnt. 4-2-2-2 Burnt's lead now solidifying. 
• TUM votes Divergent. 4-3 
• Coco votes Divergent. 4-4. 
• Ash moves off Burnt to vote me. 4-3
• Wonko votes Burnt to create the tie again. 
• Archer is the decisive vote as he moves off Burnt and onto Divergent. 5-3.
• Ash back on Burnt to make it 5-4. 

Or maybe they had 2 plans for Loop 2 depending on who got exed in the first Turn, they would try to get villagers exed of course but they'd let thing run its course and see who got exed and then take it from there? She does say he kinda wanted to talk to elims (villagers) in the dead doc so perhaps manipulation from there if she got exed? 

But no, honestly, simplest answer is teammate!Archer. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Medallion said:

Kinda just do think Burnt is e, but the argument for the kill last loop is the argument for the kill this loop, if they kill Ash three times, they can potentially steal a 100 Rupee mask

Then maybe Ash buys Mask of Truth which is fully useless to them. Or maybe Ash buys the Mask of Stone just to deny it to the elims, then puts it on do it can’t be stolen.

Just seems like a plan with a lot of steps and no guaranteed payoff. Not saying it couldn’t be the goal, but I’m not entirely satisfied with the explanation.

2 hours ago, Stick. said:

lowk was hoping ash actually did have the mask and was trying to bait the nk,, this is so sad alexa play despacito 

Same honestly

it’s rly too bad you killed him

2 hours ago, Stick. said:

can someone remind me why doc and burnt cannot be e/e? Was it just a vote from some previous cycle? or just link to a post explaining it 

 

Well when there was Burnt/Divergent wagons that one time, Doc was voting Divergent in a pretty close vote

That’s probably what people mean by them being unpaired?

I do think it’s an unpairing interaction but I’m also lowkey still suspicious of Burnt/Doc anyway

[Archer he/him]

22 minutes ago, Stick. said:

@|TJ| preflip burnt e - why do u think she didn’t self pres there? L2D1. genuine q cuz i think there might be something there. iirc both divergent and burnt were p on top of activity requirements rupees wise 

 

this is what she said abt it if it matters:

 

was it the elims planning to use the loop? It was d1 after all, so could possibly indicate a busser in doc. But then, dunno why this team makes the explicit decision to win L1 and enters L2 trying to lose it. Maybe if dive and burnt are both e, but I still lean v on dive 

 

was she just frozen? possible i guess (the ash vote comes pretty last minute). maybe both? 

 

 

I've changed my mind on Doc (to v!Doc). Drake had a good breakdown of how Doc puts her in a tie and sticks, then as TJ mentioned, they followed up the next night (1B) expressing willingness to try again for her death. 

Spoiler

 

Sadly, D1 is early enough to consider bussing/throwing (see: Burnt not self pressing and essentially abstaining). 

4 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

But no, honestly, simplest answer is teammate!Archer. 

I'm shocked how little I've been hounded this loop. My voting record, if you assume e!Coco, is baaaad. 

Speaking of bad votes, I'll note that Araris D1B and D3B votes in a way that protects Burnt. He throws Coco under the bus D2B though, so that doesn't mesh as a team composition. 

 

If you assume E!Burnt, E!Coco, v!Araris, v!Archer, v!Divergent (counterwagon to Burnt), V!Stick (CW to Coco), the elim is TJ. Problem is that I like TJ's commitment to voting me that persisted through the dead doc. I actually think it's more likely that Divergent is evil, which is why Burnt didn't care about self-pressing: it risked making her look reactive to the exe and getting exed next cycle. 

Never mind, I forgot that there can be zero elims in the dead doc. I can make a team of Coco/Burnt/Hael/... then it falls apart. The solution is never to put the two low actives in as filler

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

2 hours ago, Archer said:

 

 

c/ping Divergent's argument for Doc-Burnt being unconnected:

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

> if we assume Doc is village, then Doc is not evil with Burnt

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

9 minutes ago, Archer said:

Sadly, D1 is early enough to consider bussing/throwing (see: Burnt not self pressing and essentially abstaining). 

One thing I’m considering is that the optimal way for elims to win a loop is with 1 elim in the dead doc.

If the elims are risky (and their L1 strat somewhat indicates they are) then maybe they don’t defend quite as hard the first time one of them comes under fire. Either people village read them for not being defensive, or that teammate got voted out but they kind of wanted a dead teammate anyways.

It does mean you’re confident or at least willing to take risks about the future days, bc you cannot afford to lose a second vote without losing the loop.

But considering some people thought throwing a loop could make sense, taking that calculated risk might make even more sense.

or maybe I’m just confbiasing who knows lol

[Stick. she/her]

2 hours ago, |TJ| said:

Or maybe they had 2 plans for Loop 2 depending on who got exed in the first Turn, they would try to get villagers exed of course but they'd let thing run its course and see who got exed and then take it from there?

yea, likely. & it’s probs hard to tell where there was a shift in mindset, if any, but I can try to take a look when I have the time 

to be very honest I have not given a lot of thought to archer’s alignment this loop and I don’t know if it’s smart to exe in the dead players list today so imma table that for now I think and revisit later 

 

2 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Same honestly

it’s rly too bad you killed him

no,,,u agreed to carry the kill this time, remember? 

[Myst He/Him]

31 minutes ago, Stick. said:

yea, likely. & it’s probs hard to tell where there was a shift in mindset, if any, but I can try to take a look when I have the time 

to be very honest I have not given a lot of thought to archer’s alignment this loop and I don’t know if it’s smart to exe in the dead players list today so imma table that for now I think and revisit later 

 

no,,,u agreed to carry the kill this time, remember? 

Plot twist: Stick, Drake, Burnt and Coco are Elims and they just gaslight Aman to think Drake wasn’t so they didn’t lose the loop.

Anyway, being serious about this, I’m of the opinion that unless something is really obvious we shouldn’t bother with the person who was Elim in the dead doc(if there was) we have better chances of focusing on the people who were alive, even with one of the Elims being invincible, that’s still a higher ratio of success.

That said, what do you think of Drake’s and I’s compromise?(exing burnt mainly and Twin as backup if/because she has the stone mask) 

Right now we’re in a tie between me and Burnt that I’d lose(for various reasons) but I have Gibdo so I’d just be a zombie. I’m not sure if anyone is happy with this(except for Elims) because if I’m Elim, and Burnt is V, then I probably have strone and am lying about having Gibdo. If Burnt is Elim, she has Stone and I’m going to die. If one of us is Elim, and the other isn’t, the non-Elim dies. I know people have different opinions on which one of us is the Elim, but right now, no matter which side your on it’s not looking good.

Edit: if we’re both Elim, then coco isn’t(because I was very vocal about her) and so we don’t have an Elim dead. Then right before rollover me and Burnt hammer onto another person(along with the other two Elims) making them die. Which would blow cover but that doesn’t matter because you already exed two villagers. It’s not a good situation regardless of what to think of Me and Burnts alignments

Edited March 12 by Mistfallen Soldier

[Stick. she/her]

Burnt

had no idea it was a tie rn lol what’s the exact vc can someone post it 

[Myst He/Him]

4 minutes ago, Stick. said:

Burnt

had no idea it was a tie rn lol what’s the exact vc can someone post it 

Copied form Hael*

Mist (3): Doc{1}, Wonko{1} burnt{1}
Burnt (5): Mist{2}, Drake{1}, Araris{1} TJ{1} Stick{1}
 

it seems I was wrong about it being a tie(I must’ve missed TJs vote, so if you want feel free to remove it, since that seems to be your reasoning, sorry about that) 

I still believe I’d be the one dying cause of Stone.

Yeah I missed TJs votes my bad so before you voted it would’ve been 3:4 not 3:3 like I though it was

[Araris Valerian he/him]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

I'm shocked how little I've been hounded this loop. My voting record, if you assume e!Coco, is baaaad. 

Speaking of bad votes, I'll note that Araris D1B and D3B votes in a way that protects Burnt. He throws Coco under the bus D2B though, so that doesn't mesh as a team composition. 

 

If you assume E!Burnt, E!Coco, v!Araris, v!Archer, v!Divergent (counterwagon to Burnt), V!Stick (CW to Coco), the elim is TJ. Problem is that I like TJ's commitment to voting me that persisted through the dead doc. I actually think it's more likely that Divergent is evil, which is why Burnt didn't care about self-pressing: it risked making her look reactive to the exe and getting exed next cycle. 

Yeah, but everyone is too busy with Burnt and the Stone Mask to worry about the L2 victims.

I thought Burnt was village because my elim team profile was a thread control one.

I’m honestly not convinced that coco is elim. My read on her switched pretty hard near the end of L2.

I still think you and TJ are the best candidates for L2 elim, depending on coco’s alignment. Though if coco is village I suppose it could be Stick instead of TJ. TJ’s play D1 of this loop just really rubbed me wrong.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

21 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

Plot twist: Stick, Drake, Burnt and Coco are Elims and they just gaslight Aman to think Drake wasn’t so they didn’t lose the loop.

Can confirm this is the correct solve

[Wonko the Sane he/him]

It would appear we've chosen Burnt over Mist as the primary exe. I don't like it, but I get it.

Mistfallen.

It's imperative that we not split the vote among different theories here. The second place vote MUST be someone who is e/e with Burnt, because that person will only die if Burnt is an elim. Moreover, we should aim for someone who is e/v with Coco, given an e!burnt world. if Burnt fails to die then we need at least one of <Coco, second place> to be an elim or we lose.

Right now I'd say that Doc is a reasonable candidate for that position.

However, I also want to reiterate that if Burnt dies, we have very probably lost the game, because an e!Coco, v!Burnt world is fairly unlikely. So everyone should be very, absolutely certain that we're in an e!Burnt world before going through with this.

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

4 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Moreover, we should aim for someone who is e/v with Coco, given an e!burnt world. if Burnt fails to die then we need at least one of <Coco, second place> to be an elim or we lose.

Please correct me if I am wrong, since my Internship started this week I have not been able to give this as much attention as before, but my assumption was that we operate under the premise of e/e Coco Burnt? 

Because in that case going for someone who is e/e with burnt but e/v with Coco doesnt seem possible.

Also I my reduced attention has let to me being a bit overwhelmed and completely unsure of who I am actually suspicious of right now

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I wish I was absolutely certain

I’m more just at a point where this is the gamble I’m most willing to do

I actually think discussing Burnt v Mistfallen is still worthwhile until the end of the day

…even though the second place decision is also quite relevant and should also receive some attention. This is what’s tricky about trying to coordinate first and second on the same day

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Also @Ashbringer @Wahrheitswächter

One problem with the codes and the instructions - takes a cycle to equip.  So unless youve got someone with a night action you can test on, idk how you're proving that this loop.

[Doc12]

10 hours ago, |TJ| said:

I will note that for the last Turn and a half, Doc has been increasingly motivated on proving he does not have the Stone Mask than on solving the game. Therefore, I am fully ignoring any attempts to prove that they do not have Stone Mask. I'll tell you why, e!Doc never NEVER equips the Stone Mask without "clearing" themselves by proving they do not have the Mask. They ONLY equip the mask N2C in preparation for D3C, because they know they would never come under fire in this Day. As such, I am least interested in exe-ing a possible e!Stone!Doc (because y'all will kill me if I propose exe-ing them this cycle over Burnt  and they are always surviving D3C). So, currently on-board with the plan to exe Burnt with the side-train Twin (or Doc). 

Meanwhile, I'll think about a potential team in [Burnt, Coco, Archer, Doc, TwinStorm]. Sigh. 

I can see why you might think that, honestly. What it came down to was me being excited that there was a mechanical way to prove my innocence, which isn't common in games like this. Also fair, I didn't consider that one could dodge the tests by not equipping Stone til day 3. So... good point, this round might prove nothing about the Stone holder after all. 

6 hours ago, Stick. said:

I will say tho a point of hesitation for me is, if I were in e!doc’s shoes with e!burnt id have just instinctively gone all ‘oh I tried bidding for stone but I didn’t get it, sadge’ (there’s no way of verifying this right? u can’t track players to shop purchases idt) instead of just outright saying he didn’t even try for it,,  that sorta makes it look like he deliberately abstained to let teammate burnt have better odds at grabbing it so im not sure what that should mean, if a teammate would’ve thought through the implications - OH and there was also a point yesterday where I thought maybe doc was lying to bait the nk as well but imo u should just reveal it now if this is the case, it’s counterintuitive not to @Doc12

I don't know, I didn't go for it, saw no point in lying about that. Still don't have it  its either Burnt or Mistfallen. 

6 hours ago, Archer said:

If you assume e!Coco, Burnt had to be the one to get Stone, lest they lose the loop. 

I've been assuming v!Coco and the elims being okay with Burnt dying to the exe so long as the second elim is shielded by Stone. 

I really like this thought.

Yeah as Wahr pointed out I thought we were assuming e!Burnt and e!Coco, if the plan yesterday was for Burnt/Mist to be the center of attention while Coco could have gone for Stone. I suppose it is different if they're both e! and Burnt could also have afforded Stone the whole time. I didn't understand why Burnt/Mist would out themselves unless it was just to draw attention away from Coco who was under fire most of L2. If you assume V!Coco and e!Burnt, who are your other elims rich enough to buy Stone? It's just Mist and me in that category. 

I'm going to start the vote on Twin because I agree that Burnt and Mistfallen shouldn't be the top two trains of the day, and I don't want to be a train either  

[Myst He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

I can see why you might think that, honestly. What it came down to was me being excited that there was a mechanical way to prove my innocence, which isn't common in games like this. Also fair, I didn't consider that one could dodge the tests by not equipping Stone til day 3. So... good point, this round might prove nothing about the Stone holder after all. 

I don't know, I didn't go for it, saw no point in lying about that. Still don't have it  its either Burnt or Mistfallen. 

Yeah as Wahr pointed out I thought we were assuming e!Burnt and e!Coco, if the plan yesterday was for Burnt/Mist to be the center of attention while Coco could have gone for Stone. I suppose it is different if they're both e! and Burnt could also have afforded Stone the whole time. I didn't understand why Burnt/Mist would out themselves unless it was just to draw attention away from Coco who was under fire most of L2. If you assume V!Coco and e!Burnt, who are your other elims rich enough to buy Stone? It's just Mist and me in that category. 

I'm going to start the vote on Twin because I agree that Burnt and Mistfallen shouldn't be the top two trains of the day, and I don't want to be a train either  

That’s why I want it exe Burnt. Force her to equip the mask or get exed. I know she’s Elim(even if you don’t) so either circumstance works for me. If we win the loop, we then exe the exact same people, and if burnt equipped the stone mask we exe her for the tiebreaker. 

[Doc12]

  

17 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

Mistfallen.

Assuming we stick with the plan to exe Burnt, Mist, or Doc, we should pick the one we think is least likely to be e/e with Coco; which is why I've gone with Mist. If we point the exe at Mist or Burnt tonight, and they actually die, then they were very likely a villager. In that case, if Coco is also a villager, we've lost. To avoid that, I'd advocate we pick a person who's likely to be an elim in a v!Coco world.

If Mist dies today, then he was a villager and we're probably in the Burnt/Coco world hypothesized D1. Unfortunately, that ALSO means we need to identify an additional elim to kill D3, because Burnt probably has the mask in that timeline.

If Mist lives through the exe, then he's an elim, which I think means Coco is probably a villager (I don't remember why I think that, but it's somewhere in my brain?). In that case, it's IMPERATIVE that the second-place exe be an elim ally of Mist. Probably Hael?

34 minutes ago, Wonko the Sane said:

It would appear we've chosen Burnt over Mist as the primary exe. I don't like it, but I get it.

Mistfallen.

It's imperative that we not split the vote among different theories here. The second place vote MUST be someone who is e/e with Burnt, because that person will only die if Burnt is an elim. Moreover, we should aim for someone who is e/v with Coco, given an e!burnt world. if Burnt fails to die then we need at least one of <Coco, second place> to be an elim or we lose.

Right now I'd say that Doc is a reasonable candidate for that position.

Sorry, trying to understand your switch here. You're hypothesizing two worlds, one where Mist is e! and Coco and Burnt are village, and one where Mist is v! and Coco and Burnt are evil?

So I'm being voted on because you think I'm e/e with Burnt, but vDoc/eCoco (or other way round)? 

Also @Archer I got your caesar cipher last loop but I'm stumped on this one  Can I have a clue on how to even start

[Myst He/Him]

1 minute ago, Doc12 said:

  

Sorry, trying to understand your switch here. You're hypothesizing two worlds, one where Mist is e! and Coco and Burnt are village, and one where Mist is v! and Coco and Burnt are evil?

So I'm being voted on because you think I'm e/e with Burnt, but vDoc/eCoco (or other way round)? 

Also @Archer I got your caesar cipher last loop but I'm stumped on this one  Can I have a clue on how to even start

You could always brute force it(if you know how to do that)

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

I think Twin might actually be a valid target for our secondary train, I believe Hokd that his inactivity is irl reasons especially since he requested a Pinch hitter in the Form of Twin. Now Twin also hasnt been very active so I can see that maybe there is some staying under the radar involved.

 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

I do not like the state of votes currently. 

I don't really like the idea of voting someone who could be a Mask holder, but Burnt especially so because she only dies if v!, but if she's v so is Coco making us lose. On the other hand, I actually do just straight up think Burnt and Coco are e/e (with one of TJ/Doc, depending on who has the Stone Mask).

More thoughts later

[Myst He/Him]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Medallion said:

I do not like the state of votes currently. 

I don't really like the idea of voting someone who could be a Mask holder, but Burnt especially so because she only dies if v!, but if she's v so is Coco making us lose. On the other hand, I actually do just straight up think Burnt and Coco are e/e (with one of TJ/Doc, depending on who has the Stone Mask).

More thoughts later

That’s why we’re going Twin as back-up. That way if Burnt has the mask equipped we’ll exe twin

[Araris Valerian he/him]

33 minutes ago, The Unknown Medallion said:

I do not like the state of votes currently. 

I don't really like the idea of voting someone who could be a Mask holder, but Burnt especially so because she only dies if v!, but if she's v so is Coco making us lose. On the other hand, I actually do just straight up think Burnt and Coco are e/e (with one of TJ/Doc, depending on who has the Stone Mask).

More thoughts later

If coco is e, why do you think TJ would be also? TJ is literally the entire reason we exed coco. And what about Archer? He seems pretty teamed with coco.