Long Game 104: The Flame of Tar Valon

[BridgeBoi]

2 hours ago, Illwei said:

Hi Guys!!! Been over a year since I last played a game here so woo

I read over the game at like 5am before sleeping so I had thoughts but I forgot what most of them were. Besides a negative read on the Gaea slot which I suppose helps me here but it sure doesn't feel like it :P.

one thing is @BridgeBoi Don't apologize for voting wrong. Like yes, Kas is a Villager, but voting villagers isn't something you need to apologize for. It's going to happen to everyone at some point, and it's not something you should be ashamed or scared of. 

 

To be clear I wasn’t apologizing of voting on Kas. I was apologizing for bandwaggoning without a good reason.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

8 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

It's more that TwinStorm's n1 posts were ok enough that I've been considering if I'm wrong, given I have a... not so great record at reading newer players, and it is possible I just dislike the way TwinStorm just makes posts. His n1 posts were not extremely wolfy the way I found a lot of his d1 posts, they were just ok posts.

ftr I agree a lot with your point there - I thought that KelsierApologist had a really theatre-y comment aimed at TwinStorm).

My main points against TwinStorm are wolfy posts d1 imo, and that theatre point. Kas seems to think differently and I am a sheep can see Kas's point of view on TwinStorm.

Also, Sart is also a sitter and can't be voted today

my bad, my bad

Sart

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

Terrisman

Who here has only played two or three games?

[TwinStorm He/Him]

33 minutes ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Terrisman

Who here has only played two or three games?

this is my 4th, but the first game I was helpless and didn't do anything

[Terrisman]

1 hour ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Terrisman

Who here has only played two or three games?

This is my first 

[Steeldancer he/him]

3 hours ago, Illwei said:

I assume it's been talked about already but the Azazel Chair- Just making sure we are all on the same page where I don't think we want to elect that/get a maj candidate until absolutely possible. there's a possibility that an Elim might win a 2/2 tie but even then they have to survive a deposition, and in that time we should be able to get all the elims. If we don't then we can depose but if we get someone up earlier and then realize we can't trust them and depose them, and then it turns out they're a villager then that's a loss.

Atm I'm in favor of keeping joe in the running at the very least. Maybe Steel.

@Aeternum Can you talk to me about what you liked about Twinstorm? My problem is I don't want to ignore their interactions with KA which seem pretty bad to me on the "They're a new player" track.

@Ashbringer can you talk about your suspicion of Aet? I'm not familiar with their play here but I feel mildly comfortable calling them a villager here.

It's 20 out today so I'm gonna enjoy the weather and read over drake and TUN later. I saw suspicion on drake but in my initial catch up I didn't see anything from them. Like. I don't remember seeing a post. I know I got Sart and Steel mixed up on first glance as well though so maybe I'm blind.

Also uh

Sart

@Steeldancer is the reason you didn't vote then because you wanted it? Because you didn't trust Gaea who was voting for you?

 

EDIT: Sart

I'm real good at this whole "voting" thing.

 

Exactly, I figured there was a chance that Gaea going along with my admittedly ridiculous reason for Sitter could be an attempt at pocketing. 

Edit: and yeah, I wanted it lol. 

Edited March 26, 2025 by Steeldancer

[BridgeBoi]

My first game, also.

[Sart he/him]

Kas: Suspects me
Also Kas: Follows my vote two times in a row

Not sure how to respond to this hostility. Despite our differences in style, we arrived at the same conclusion. Mark needs a closer look at. He's also been suspiciously quiet today. He has logged on to the Shard, but no posts. I know it's keeping my vote parked but a poke doesn't work if you just retract it without them saying anything.

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

Sorry TwinStorm. I don't have a really strong lean either side, but you fit the profile well. This is mostly just to get that idea out here.

[TwinStorm He/Him]

9 minutes ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Sorry TwinStorm. I don't have a really strong lean either side, but you fit the profile well. This is mostly just to get that idea out here.

why?

alright, from what I've seen, you're voting on me cuz of the idea that I would be petty like a middle schooler

ngl, that seems kinda weak and flimsy, like you need a scapegoat

ThatOneWorldhopper

Edited March 26, 2025 by TwinStorm

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

2 minutes ago, TwinStorm said:

alright, from what I've seen, you're voting on me cuz of the idea that I would be petty like a middle schooler

ngl, that seems kinda weak and flimsy, like you need a scapegoat

I deserved that. The middle-schooler example wasn't about the pettiness, it was more about the timeline and how people will notice others "younger" than them, forgetting that they were once in that situation.

Once again, I would never call any of you middle-schoolers.  

I voted you because at this point, I can't figure out any other leads. I know that this isn't perfect reasoning, but it's the only reasoning I have.

[Ashbringer he/him]

26 minutes ago, Sart said:

Kas: Suspects me
Also Kas: Follows my vote two times in a row

Not sure how to respond to this hostility. Despite our differences in style, we arrived at the same conclusion. Mark needs a closer look at. He's also been suspiciously quiet today. He has logged on to the Shard, but no posts. I know it's keeping my vote parked but a poke doesn't work if you just retract it without them saying anything.

FWIW, Kas mentioned in our Ajah doc that V!Kas and V!Sart clash a bit, sometimes more than V!Kas E!Sart.

How much he considers this clashing or not, not entirely sure.

5 hours ago, Illwei said:

@Ashbringer can you talk about your suspicion of Aet? I'm not familiar with their play here but I feel mildly comfortable calling them a villager here.

I'm not really familiar with their play, either. Which is part of the problem. But they also seem to fit the profile best of someone who'd go for a newer player first, and their response to that has been... muted?

Not really sure about that. Was hoping Aet or someone else would bite, but instead the vote count looks a bit all over the place, and more interesting things are happening elsewhere to some degree. But I also need to think a bit more on who, then.

[Aeternum]

51 minutes ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Sorry TwinStorm. I don't have a really strong lean either side, but you fit the profile well. This is mostly just to get that idea out here.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by TwinStorm fitting the profile well? Why TwinStorm over other similar slots?

20 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I'm not really familiar with their play, either. Which is part of the problem. But they also seem to fit the profile best of someone who'd go for a newer player first, and their response to that has been... muted?

Not really sure about that. Was hoping Aet or someone else would bite, but instead the vote count looks a bit all over the place, and more interesting things are happening elsewhere to some degree. But I also need to think a bit more on who, then.

I would absolutely be willing to NK a new player unless my team was opposed  (if you care about my NK meta, I prefer either vocal/obvious town targets and anyone who pushes me slightly, but usually I let my team lead for NKs and I don't low info kill by choice, personally).

I gave my thoughts on the NK already, shrugs.

[Terrisman]

@The Wandering Wizard I want to hear from you a little. Can you tell me why you voted for TUF? Is it just because of Kas? 
Who do you suspect?

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

The much demanded larger defense post. I feel like I already made most of the points, but there's a few more now.

First of all, let's rehash my earlier points. I voted Kas based off of a flip of a coin between Kas and Drake. I got heads, so on went my vote to Kas, despite being aware that he was most likely village. I was okay with this because, honestly, I've wanted to get Kas exed while I was an elim for a while now, but I'll accept getting him exed as a villager. 

Kas and Drake were the subjects of the coin flip because I, unabashedly, wanted to protect Polly. I've enjoyed my time in docs with Polly between here and the QF, and wanted to keep chatting. I also v!read Polly (I never claimed to be good at being village) because they said no when I offered the position of Sitter to them. I'm not sure why they refused, but I'd guess it was either to pocket me or because they didn't think Storm would join them. 

That's it for old points. Now here's some new reasons I'm not an elim.

The Teldris kill is so outside of my kill meta it's insane. Like Kas said, I kill dangerous people with accurate reads. Low info kills are not really my style, especially when they usually thin the numbers of a category that contains myself. And, Teldris was a new player. Sure, I sometimes let my teammates decide the kill, mainly to hide my kill meta. But if I was letting my teammates decide, why wouldn't I steer them away from a player from a protected group? I know the tradition, and I am quite consistent in following it, even when other teammates are deciding instead of me. Why wouldn't I point them in the direction of Steel, Aet, or Ash if they were looking for a low info?

I also haven't made an effort to prevent or slow my Stilling. I very likely could have convinced Storm to give me another chance if I has tried. I could have hopped on the people saying to do BB at lowest votes instead of me. I didn't because, frankly, I don't want to be constantly clogging the election discussion. I'd always be a distraction every night, and we have more important things to discuss. 

Like I said before, I realized you had to Still me. You can't have some that obviously voted to attempt to save a flipped elim in a position to be elected to Amyrlin. But that's not a danger anymore. I'm just a body now, and will be subject to immense scrutiny, stopping me from pulling any shannonigans. I'd like to keep playing this game for a while longer.

Now, the part I usually struggle with in these defensive posts (yes, I have to make them a lot. As evidenced by this game, I tend to pick up suspicion when I'm village) is picking out my target.

The Teldris kill was obviously from someone who didn't know or didn't care about the tradition. Or someone who didn't know Teldris was new (off hand, Gaea probably, STINK, Sart, maybe Jo, maybe Mark). I don't really want to go after the new and returning players when one has already been hit. With that thought process and those limitations, I think Aeternum is the best choice. 

I also don't like Wiz's vote on me. If feels like a copout/LHF type vote, which is common from elims on me. His comments have also been off, but I don't think this kill seems very likely coming from him. I don't think he's as sensitive about killing newbies as some people, but he's not my priority. 

I would be willing to self-pres onto Mark. He fits the profile and isn't super returning. I just think Aet is a better prospect. And I fear Aet's e!game a bit more (I don't think I've played against e!Mark? Idk).

Wow. That was a lot. Well, here it is, I'll respond to any replies in the morning.

[Illwei]

thatoneworldhopper

[Terrisman]

11 minutes ago, Illwei said:

thatoneworldhopper

Why?

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

10 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Wiz claims the vote was a test, and unvotes me and switches to Polly. @The Wandering Wizard, are you able to say anything about why Polly of everyone who joined you on that train?

Not really, they're not in my doc and I didn't interact with them much. I didn't interact with most people the first night and day  I swapped off of you because it got a lot of momentum and I smelled something fishy, why I switched to Polly exactly I don't remember. I think it was I was going to vote someone who voted on you and I sat on the vote and honestly got lucky. I felt Polly's posts weren't village but I didn't know for sure if they were evil. 

Toothless approved list

Spoiler

Kas

Joe

Aet

Ash

Steel

Terrisman

Gaea/Illwei

Sart

TUN

Mark

Drake

Stink

ToW

BridgeBoi

TwinStorm

TJ most evil of them all who made the wheel turn once again  

Stink and Drake are hardest for me to read cuz of their low post count and I'm aware I very well might be reading people I haven't played wrong because tonally it reads weird to me but it might not be for them so *shrug*

33 minutes ago, Terrisman said:

@The Wandering Wizard I want to hear from you a little. Can you tell me why you voted for TUF? Is it just because of Kas? 
Who do you suspect?

It was mostly because of them seeming tonally off to me, especially their post about being stilled first was really weird.

But it also seems unlikely that the Brown Ajah is completely full of BA as Twin has been seeming really evil to me as their takes seem really weird from a village perspective. And that likely means TUF isn't evil but then why would they vote TUF then? It just seems like those are unlikely so Twinstorm maybe not evil? Idk my brain is too tired to figure out the possibilities rn I'm just the crazy guy rn  

Spoiler

24 minutes ago, The Unknown Flame said:

The much demanded larger defense post. I feel like I already made most of the points, but there's a few more now.

First of all, let's rehash my earlier points. I voted Kas based off of a flip of a coin between Kas and Drake. I got heads, so on went my vote to Kas, despite being aware that he was most likely village. I was okay with this because, honestly, I've wanted to get Kas exed while I was an elim for a while now, but I'll accept getting him exed as a villager. 

Kas and Drake were the subjects of the coin flip because I, unabashedly, wanted to protect Polly. I've enjoyed my time in docs with Polly between here and the QF, and wanted to keep chatting. I also v!read Polly (I never claimed to be good at being village) because they said no when I offered the position of Sitter to them. I'm not sure why they refused, but I'd guess it was either to pocket me or because they didn't think Storm would join them. 

That's it for old points. Now here's some new reasons I'm not an elim.

The Teldris kill is so outside of my kill meta it's insane. Like Kas said, I kill dangerous people with accurate reads. Low info kills are not really my style, especially when they usually thin the numbers of a category that contains myself. And, Teldris was a new player. Sure, I sometimes let my teammates decide the kill, mainly to hide my kill meta. But if I was letting my teammates decide, why wouldn't I steer them away from a player from a protected group? I know the tradition, and I am quite consistent in following it, even when other teammates are deciding instead of me. Why wouldn't I point them in the direction of Steel, Aet, or Ash if they were looking for a low info?

I also haven't made an effort to prevent or slow my Stilling. I very likely could have convinced Storm to give me another chance if I has tried. I could have hopped on the people saying to do BB at lowest votes instead of me. I didn't because, frankly, I don't want to be constantly clogging the election discussion. I'd always be a distraction every night, and we have more important things to discuss. 

Like I said before, I realized you had to Still me. You can't have some that obviously voted to attempt to save a flipped elim in a position to be elected to Amyrlin. But that's not a danger anymore. I'm just a body now, and will be subject to immense scrutiny, stopping me from pulling any shannonigans. I'd like to keep playing this game for a while longer.

Now, the part I usually struggle with in these defensive posts (yes, I have to make them a lot. As evidenced by this game, I tend to pick up suspicion when I'm village) is picking out my target.

The Teldris kill was obviously from someone who didn't know or didn't care about the tradition. Or someone who didn't know Teldris was new (off hand, Gaea probably, STINK, Sart, maybe Jo, maybe Mark). I don't really want to go after the new and returning players when one has already been hit. With that thought process and those limitations, I think Aeternum is the best choice. 

I also don't like Wiz's vote on me. If feels like a copout/LHF type vote, which is common from elims on me. His comments have also been off, but I don't think this kill seems very likely coming from him. I don't think he's as sensitive about killing newbies as some people, but he's not my priority. 

I would be willing to self-pres onto Mark. He fits the profile and isn't super returning. I just think Aet is a better prospect. And I fear Aet's e!game a bit more (I don't think I've played against e!Mark? Idk).

Wow. That was a lot. Well, here it is, I'll respond to any replies in the morning.

Yeah I do agree that it is probably better to look into someone else today. TUF

I'm starting to be suspicious of my doc mates and suspecting at least one of them is probably BA though it's hard with the doc not moving much and when I try to get responses they seem really weird. Though I'm trying to not slip into QF63 land again. If anyone has any questions I'll answer in the morning. 

Goodnight yall.

[Sart he/him]

Might as well do a vote count while I'm here.

Vote Count:
TUF (1): BridgeBoi
Mark (2): Sart, Kasimir
TOW (3): Terrisman, TwinStorm, Illwei
Aeternum (2): Ashbringer, TUF
STINK (1): Aeternum
Twinstorm (2): Steeldancer, TOW
No Vote (5): DrakeMarshall, Mark, STINK, Jo, Wiz

 

[Aeternum]

"I fear Aet's e!range" is not a reason to wolfread me, smh. It's an easy point to hide against because you probably don't know my e!range (Illwei is the only one here who has seen e!me recently), given I haven't randed elim here since... LG100 I believe, which was almost a year ago. But that is not an actual reason lol. You're also likely completely overestimating my e!range, and you wouldn't be the first  - feel free to describe my elim agenda to me if you have an actual reason that I am not seeing, shrugs.

Ftr I'm looking at a world of v!TwinStorm -> w!ThatOneWorldhopper. I'm leaning towards ThatOneWorldhopper being an elim here anyways - there were some self-aware posts that pinged me and that vote is very wolfy in v!TwinStorm worlds. The issue is that a lot of newbie town are really self-aware like that, and will make bad votes that are sheeping the current thread consensus. So take it with a grain of salt (or like, 20), I suppose. Think pressure there is good. TwinStorm had bad d1 posts, but ThatOneWorldhopper has had bad d2 posts.

Don't mind Mark pressure. One day I will actually read Mark's posts. Think BridgeBoi should be Stilled tonight and pressured - BridgeBoi has been mostly ignored and has floated around without doing much.

TUF is sort of in needs to be resolved territory for me right now, unless TUF towntells extremely hard here. That's sort of my opinion, but I do not think that's the sort of slot you leave alive rn for threadstate purposes. Tells you a lot about the game to flip a slot like that imo - and I still think there is a decent chance of TUF flipping elim shrugs. If I was high effort, I'd meta check because it's possible this is within TUF town meta (which I mentioned to my Ajahmates earlier), since sometimes, townies do weird things. I don't think there is any genuine intent to solve from TUF, though, so really cannot end up in my townreads, and I very dislike the way thread is treating TUF right now.

I think Terrisman is basically always town, high confidence. Kas is most likely town, and I trust town will know when to correctly tinfoil Kas so that I don't have to actually check my read there in full.

I'm going to point out again - that is an incredibly unusual NK and it's meant to distract. I think it is absolutely pure wifom to use the NK as a defense and I'm not willing to clear anyone for it, but I am willing to listen to Kas's points on who would be less likely to make the kill. I'm not a NKA solver lol. Insert the rest of the paragraph I wrote here then deleted because it's mostly w/e.

I have a lot of names I'm fine with voting rn, which is... not really great in terms of my reads.

[Terrisman]

55 minutes ago, The Unknown Flame said:

The much demanded larger defense post. I feel like I already made most of the points, but there's a few more now.

First of all, let's rehash my earlier points. I voted Kas based off of a flip of a coin between Kas and Drake. I got heads, so on went my vote to Kas, despite being aware that he was most likely village. I was okay with this because, honestly, I've wanted to get Kas exed while I was an elim for a while now, but I'll accept getting him exed as a villager. 

Kas and Drake were the subjects of the coin flip because I, unabashedly, wanted to protect Polly. I've enjoyed my time in docs with Polly between here and the QF, and wanted to keep chatting. I also v!read Polly (I never claimed to be good at being village) because they said no when I offered the position of Sitter to them. I'm not sure why they refused, but I'd guess it was either to pocket me or because they didn't think Storm would join them. 

That's it for old points. Now here's some new reasons I'm not an elim.

The Teldris kill is so outside of my kill meta it's insane. Like Kas said, I kill dangerous people with accurate reads. Low info kills are not really my style, especially when they usually thin the numbers of a category that contains myself. And, Teldris was a new player. Sure, I sometimes let my teammates decide the kill, mainly to hide my kill meta. But if I was letting my teammates decide, why wouldn't I steer them away from a player from a protected group? I know the tradition, and I am quite consistent in following it, even when other teammates are deciding instead of me. Why wouldn't I point them in the direction of Steel, Aet, or Ash if they were looking for a low info?

I also haven't made an effort to prevent or slow my Stilling. I very likely could have convinced Storm to give me another chance if I has tried. I could have hopped on the people saying to do BB at lowest votes instead of me. I didn't because, frankly, I don't want to be constantly clogging the election discussion. I'd always be a distraction every night, and we have more important things to discuss. 

Like I said before, I realized you had to Still me. You can't have some that obviously voted to attempt to save a flipped elim in a position to be elected to Amyrlin. But that's not a danger anymore. I'm just a body now, and will be subject to immense scrutiny, stopping me from pulling any shannonigans. I'd like to keep playing this game for a while longer.

Now, the part I usually struggle with in these defensive posts (yes, I have to make them a lot. As evidenced by this game, I tend to pick up suspicion when I'm village) is picking out my target.

The Teldris kill was obviously from someone who didn't know or didn't care about the tradition. Or someone who didn't know Teldris was new (off hand, Gaea probably, STINK, Sart, maybe Jo, maybe Mark). I don't really want to go after the new and returning players when one has already been hit. With that thought process and those limitations, I think Aeternum is the best choice. 

I also don't like Wiz's vote on me. If feels like a copout/LHF type vote, which is common from elims on me. His comments have also been off, but I don't think this kill seems very likely coming from him. I don't think he's as sensitive about killing newbies as some people, but he's not my priority. 

I would be willing to self-pres onto Mark. He fits the profile and isn't super returning. I just think Aet is a better prospect. And I fear Aet's e!game a bit more (I don't think I've played against e!Mark? Idk).

Wow. That was a lot. Well, here it is, I'll respond to any replies in the morning.

Okay. Sorry. That doesn’t do it for me. You can’t say day 1 that you always vote randomly even though you acknowledge it was a train and then try to say now it was because you wanted to get Kas. 
The fact that you normally kill the more vocal people doesn’t work for me either because you know that and can easily change that. If it’s known you don’t do low info kills, you very well could have decided that since based on the night it seemed pretty clear you were going to be our target in the morning, you killed someone that doesn’t go with your meta so we would get confused and you would be able to say I don’t do that. You could easily have chosen a new player so you could prolong your (game)life.

TUF

For all the people who voted for him last night, if you had a reason to think TUF is an elim, why not get rid of him? Even if he’s not, at this point we need to know that. We can learn as much about this game if TUF is village as if he does end up being BA

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

FWIW, Kas mentioned in our Ajah doc that V!Kas and V!Sart clash a bit, sometimes more than V!Kas E!Sart.

Rather, V!Sart and V!Kas are perpendicular to each other in terms of views about the gamestate. When we agree too much about the game, it's normally V!Kas/E!Sart. So yeah this has confused me quite a bit. Not sure why Sart finds this weird because it's not remotely new. (I used to have a worse way of phrasing this read, but you can find it across multiple games and it's been right in most recent games that wasn't TJ's Infernal Affairs QF, QF70. That one was just whack. )

Anyway it's a busy af day and I'm headed out again - I'm gonna try to wake up earlier tomorrow morning to review/decide where I want to be. Ok with STINK pressure, ok with Mark pressure, still kind of think TUF's vote deserves sus for saving Polly. 

Slightly ehhh about the Gaea sus because it does mean Gaea chose to bus Polly during the point where Polly was still saveable, hence @Steeldancer I've been asking repeatedly what the situation in your Ajah was like and if this was advertised. Slightly of the view that there's one Elim in <Gaea, Jo> for the record, which has to do with some weirdness about their posts.

Edited to add:

We've never had the E!Kas/V!Sart experiment before AFAICR so I don't really know if that same trend would stick or what.

Edited to add 2:

So my point/reason for interjecting Ash is that it's not really about clashing, it's about our reads of the gamestate.

[STINK he/him]

18 hours ago, Kasimir said:

@STINK - Any reason you call TUF out here but don't vote him?

'Cause every now and again you gotta be petty and I had just made my vote against a Sitter to say screw the system man how could I just immediately get away from my stand against the system do none of you stand for anything

17 hours ago, Aeternum said:

we're in an Ajah together and I've been fine with what Mark has been saying in our doc so I'm not overly concerned

This Ajah has an evil person in it fyi

15 hours ago, Aeternum said:

I'd still like there to be more pressure on STINK

6 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Ok with STINK pressure

Everyone says they're good with STINK pressure but no one asks if STINK is okay with the pressure /shrug

Under Pressure still a good song if you haven't listened to it in a good while make sure to give that a relisten

 

Also my Ajah mates are still being shy so like new policy is stop talking about having conversations with your Ajah people smh although my food talk plan is still doing decent but I have realised that I've just kinda started journeling within my Ajah doc so maybe I need to pick that up as well.

TheWanderingWizard for now, also sidenote my caps lock seems to be working very not well right now so writing out that vote was a pain and this is not an invitation for anyone to tell me about shift+letters to do a capital letter you use caps lock alright. 

Anyways time to make lunch and do some journalling yippee

 

[BridgeBoi]

Ok. I’ve been on the fence about the elims so far but I’m going to make some judgements.

good: Kas, Ashbringer, Terrisman, Sart

Null: Mark, Wiz, TOW, STINK, Drake, Illyra

Sus: Jo, Storm, TUF

Jo was the only person who wanted to be sitter and now is the only person who is really running for the Seat. That’s pretty suspicious. He has been acting town otherwise, but I can’t fully trust someone who wants power.

Storm had a wolfly interaction with Polly and was on the Kas Train.

TUF lied about their vote, and voted to protect Polly.  

I’m fine with revising any of my nulls down or up but those are currently the people who I don’t know what to think about.

[Kasimir he/him]

9 minutes ago, STINK said:

Everyone says they're good with STINK pressure but no one asks if STINK is okay with the pressure /shrug

Spoiler

 

23 minutes ago, STINK said:

Under Pressure still a good song if you haven't listened to it in a good while make sure to give that a relisten

Spoiler

 

 

Edited to add:

15 hours ago, Aeternum said:

My main points against TwinStorm are wolfy posts d1 imo, and that theatre point. Kas seems to think differently and I am a sheep can see Kas's point of view on TwinStorm.

Tbh, I'm kind of willing to see it your way because new player Elims are the ones I tend to get wrong the most. I can't deny Storm has that vote and just from the perspective of pure vote analysis, yeaahhhh (though tbf I guess the other issue is - do we expect more Elims on my D1 train than just Polly?) You and Illwei agreeing gives me more pause in terms of whether I'm just running into a TBTBAW on stilts all over again.

And for context RE: my views on <Gaea/Jo>, <Mark> and <Sart> - my most recent shifts are just vote-based, i.e. I acknowledge it doesn't engage with the posts as much as the votes, but I've tended to go less kayana when guided by votes rather than posts, so I usually err on the side of vote analysis first, and for Sart, it's more based on the fact I'm not comfortable with how much we're vibing in our views of the game, because historically, that hasn't boded well for our being V/V together. I don't feel sure enough of it or I'd probably be a lot more vocal other than going ? at Sart every once in a while so it's odd Sart is framing it as not being sure about what to do with this hostility because if I wanted him dead, everyone in here would know about it!

I still feel it is...possible for Brown Ajah to be three Elim, but not really? Like at most I'd expect one more Elim in <Storm, TUF>. I agree if TJ did a pure rand it is possible, but...that's probably a little whack in terms of balance because Village is guaranteed a lot of pure Ajahs?

@BridgeBoi - Storm mentioned a lot about knowing you and being able to read you. Any reason why you seem to be less clear about him?