Wind and Truth Full Book Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Post your full book reactions for Wind and Truth here. Full Cosmere spoilers are allowed untagged in this board!

[Inevitability]

For those who are so inclined - Target fulfilled my pickup order for WaT

[praetextus]

Umm I guess I'll start then. That was a lot of words to pour into one's brain, and thus my full processed reaction will probably need a re-read. I feel the main downside to reading fast is you don't get as much time to process in-the-moment. A couple thoughts for now (and yes, spoilers):

Not a surprise but very happy to see it play out that way:
- I was picturing that this book would end with, at best, a very incomplete victory for Team Radiant, and more likely a crippling loss. Taravangian has been low-key my favorite in this entire series thus far, and I think it would have undercut him as the primary antagonist for him not to come out essentially victorious here. So very satisfying to see him reach essentially the apex of his tragic arc. And I am very excited for him and his Blackthorn cognitive shadow side-kick to have many wonderful adventures to come throughout the Cosmere (okay I should not be so excited for this; it casts many doubts upon my own moral compass, and yet, I am extremely excited and it will be fantastic)
- Kaladin climbing his way up Maslow's pyramid of needs. I had a feeling that Kaladin would end up throwing himself headfirst into the Oathpact because...Kaladin. But (as Kaladin is also up there on my favorites list) I was dreading him being crushed by the process the way we saw him broken down in Book 4 (and Book 3, and Book 2, and...well, one gets the idea). Not a criticism, as I understand the writerly logic, but...it was very satisfying to see him continue to grow into himself and his own needs, and to enter the Oathpact as a positive choice instead of a self-destructive sacrifice.

Definitely a surprise, but in the best possible way:
- I did not expect to like Szeth anywhere near this much. I came to respect and understand Venli in Book 4, but I never came to like her. I see this as a sign of Brandon's growth as a writer to be willing/able to put unlikeable (polarizing?) characters in the protagonist position, and in many senses I expected Szeth's sections to be even more like this. Either that, or a character arc that completely recast his personality as a reaction to trauma. Again, maybe my strange personal opinions, but I like that Szeth was, from the start, a rule-obsessed little kid who annoyed people as a result. And to see his recovery to not become a totally different person, but just a more functional and better adjusted version of himself.
- Dalinar's arc coming to a close. Based on some of what we saw in the Secret Projects, parallels with friends on Scadrial, I couldn't imagine this book ending without Taravangian getting a pet Blackthorn to rampage around with him. But Dalinar has come so far that it would have been exceedingly grim to see him backslide into his prior bloodthirstiness and lack of self-actualization. But I didn't expect any of the last parts with Gav, and the way that he redeemed his past failures with Gavilar (is anyone actually sad about this though??) and Elhokar...fantastic.

I was not prepared for this and now I am sad:
- Jasnah is ending this book near the bottom of her character arc. Maybe I should have been prepared for this, given that she needs to have room to grow and overcome challenges, but she is also my favorite (yes, I have many favorites), and I didn't expect things to turn out so very badly for her.
- Gavinor. Enough said.
 

I do not even know what to think, but apparently I need to re-read everything again, yes EVERYTHING:
- Hematurgy, but...Voidlight? What will the Heralds think of next?
- Time dilation as a result of two Shards mixing? How do we think about compounding multiple shards on Scadrial, etc, and what does this tell us about different types of Investiture

[Soccorro]

Good:

Kaladin. I loved more optimistic Kaladin, his next ideal and his ending. Honor-spear???

Szeth’s flashbacks are big improvement since last book.

Adolin and Maya. Some of the best action scenes Brandon ever wrote.

No Syladin

Bad:

Everything about Dalinar. Gavinor was, in my opinion, stupid. I understand that any book is reflection of author’s world view and “killing one to save many isn’t worth it” theme was there since book 1, but…killing Gavinor was right. I’m sorry. I understand what Brandon tried to show, but really? The fate of many planets and so many lives aren’t the priority? Dalinar died…for this? He was sidelined in RoW for this? Didn’t even reach next ideal. Dalinar’s character is pure disappointment and it hurts to think about amazing character conclusions other characters got while Dalinar fans pulled the short straw. Again. Should’ve died in Oathbringer instead.

Ending is too much like Hero of Ages. The more you dive into cosmere the less original it feels like. 

Moash. Ugh

Overall 6-7/10 book for me. Rhythm of War was more boring, but individual arcs were very solid. This book is very fast past and dynamic, but some things about characters disappointed me. 

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

Did you guys have already finished wtf? 

 

I'm in the middle of day 5 right now. Based on my reading speed I think I'll be finishing it by Sunday 

 

Really loving the book so far, only very minor complaints 

Edited December 6, 2024 by IcaroRibeiro

[Nahema]

I wonder how it will work out without highstorm, I mean the whole ecosystem ist dependent on it. You have one spot with natural light, but no crem. And you have the rest of the land without light, without crem. Feeding the people is fine, but what about the animals and plants?

[Moirne she/her]

5 minutes ago, Nahema said:

I wonder how it will work out without highstorm, I mean the whole ecosystem ist dependent on it. You have one spot with natural light, but no crem. And you have the rest of the land without light, without crem. Feeding the people is fine, but what about the animals and plants?

Sounds like the ecosystem will function with Warlight, but it gives Retribution a very firm hold over the populations - keep following directions and they can have enough light to feed themselves. But if they don’t, their access to light gets cut off. I imagine this will be a major plotline/source of conflict for the listener nation in the next arc especially.

 

I’m not sure how much Retribution cares about the ecosystem outside of how he can use it to manipulate the people living on it.

Edited December 6, 2024 by Moirne

[basement_boi he/him]

All of this is my opinion;

Good (or well done, I should say)

-Kaladin’s ending. While I think him becoming a Herald was a tad bit rushed, I like the way Brandon went about it. He made it work in a way that fit with Kaladin’s improvement and change.

-Tanavast POV. Seeing the struggle between Tanavast trying to do what he thinks is right vs Honor resisting was I think the best way to do “Honor was kind of bad.” It still made the Almighty that we see in the previous books legitimately the good guy, while also adding nuance.

-Death Rattles being resolved. I liked how all of the chapter titles at the end tied all the way back to that.

-Szeth flashbacks

-General vibe at the end. Everything sucks, we have no clue what happened, the world is ending around us, and all we can do is wait.

Bad

-Screentime on hyped-up characters. El had like 3 chapters that we saw him in. Ba-Ado-Mishram, other than just sitting in the background watching, didn’t really do much. 

-Gavinor. Ugh. He couldn’t just do child champion (which could have gone well), he then had to make him angry YA Gavinor. Surely Odium wasn’t planning on Ghostbloods shoving Gav into the SR from the beginning, right?

-Moash. He keeps coming back in a new way and that just seems really clunky. So now he has Hemalurgy, but with weird crystals? Ok, sure.

Interesting

-Nightblood can grant surges now.

-Time dilation during the time jump to the back half

-What’s going on with the fourth moon? Why is this such a big secret, and why is it special? Does it imply that a fourth shard is in the system?

-Is Canticle just Braize 2.0?

[Subvisual Haze]

Strange book.  The ending was certainly bold and risky, but I'm not sure I'd call it enjoyable.  It certainly changes a lot moving forward but does it feel like a satisfying resolution to many open threads?  Remarkably it still gives off that "tune in next week!" vibe, despite a large in-world and realworld timegap now occurring.  Interestingly for a Sanderson book the middle part was the portion of the book I enjoyed the most.  Most of the side plots were proven to be ultimately pointless due to the contest, but they were well written.  Everyone had something to keep themselves busy, so I suppose that's something.

The contest of champions played out poorly relative to the years of hype that went into it.  The entire plot revolving around the gang going to the Spirit Realm so Gav can get corrupted only happens specifically because Cultivation tells Dalinar to go there, which makes her look like an utter moron in hindsight.  It's not like Dalinar really learned much of anything that Cultivation couldn't have just told him in a couple sentences (Honor+Odium directly fighting would destroy world but Honor wants to fight Odium. Tanavast betrayed BAM and that's why he lost Honor.)  The Gavinor plot sucked and everyone saw it coming, but so it goes.

I enjoyed the Szeth and Kaladin plot quite a bit.  Sometimes the therapist stuff was heavy headed, but all of the characters involved were very well written and enjoyable to read through.  Lots of bros talking about their feelings frequently around campfires, which was pretty delightful.  I particularly enjoyed how Nale argues like an badfaith internet pedant regularly contradicting himself and constantly shifting goalposts.

Overall I'd give a 4/5.  Definitely a step up from RoW, but not quite peak Sanderson due to a messy ending.

[Jensen]

In the middle of reading the book! But, finally we have a name for the last shard and for some bragging rights I guessed it two years back in this thread:

https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/106737-do-we-finaly-have-an-answer/#comment-1330969

[yulerule]

I'm on Chapter 41, and my current set of thoghts:

 

Is Talmut another name for Taln?

 

 

"plus shields lined in aluminum, which could stop a Blade too."

What are shardblade sheaths made out of? or the edge duller for sparring?

If aluminum, then that should be an old tactic.

 

Also, it feels ...odd... that a thin sheet of aluminum can stop a Blade. Even with a thick shield behind it.

 

I... don't like Szeth's spen.

 

 

 "those maces were lined in aluminum—for Adolin tried and failed to slice one in half."

Again, this just feels fundamentally wrong to me. Possibly because aluminum is so common, and everyone has foil. Please tell me it was discovered recently, and is exorbitantly expensive? That would make me feel better.

Edited December 6, 2024 by yulerule

[eriwancoselyn]

In terms of positives.

-This was definitely a step up from rhythm of war. Though, nearly anything would have been a step up from RoW.

-Some of the callbacks to earlier parts of the story were nice. I particularly like Dalinar's ending line. His ending overall is a different story...

- A lot of the more strange moments from earlier books got some context to flesh them out.

- Shallan and Mraize's back and forth was nice.

- Adolin had some good action scenes.

In terms of cons

(I'm more then happy to debate these, pls remember it's just my opinion)

- I think we can say that stormlight as a series is at its worst when it's dealing with character interactions. Things like Kaladin killing Heleran, Adolin killing Sadeas, and Shallan working for the GB should have had massive repercussions that just... never came. This to me is an issue that's at its worst in the later books. Brandon seems completely unwilling to do anything that would actually drive the group apart for good. overall, this has left me with a feeling of apathy when a character does something that should be important, because ik it's probably going nowhere.

- The post above was right in that this ending isn't super original for Brandon. He pulled the same trick in Hero of ages. The issue is that the bait and switch was handled better in that book than it was in this one. 

- BAM ultimately meant nothing for the story. IK she's out there now but in terms of this book, it's gonna be really hard to reread the Shallan parts when I know it's not going anywhere for this book.

- Szeth is def at his best in this book. His spren, on the other hand, is one of the most odd things I've ever read. The part about Szeth having to wait for permission to use division felt almost comical to me. It's especially strange when you know the truth about the highspren.

- Gavinor ending was contrived and felt rushed. A bunch of coincidences happen to get him into the SR. None of it feels particularly earned or shocking.

- I'm really not sure what to make of the avatars of Adonalsium. I worry that we should have been talking about them three books ago. Even the deathly hallows were at least visible throughout all of HP. I also really don't like that they have such generic names 'The Wind' doesn't feel nearly as cool as 'The Stormfather' or 'The Nightwatcher'. 

 

overall: 

I still like stormlight. Maybe the first two books just set the bar too high. This is a fine addition to the series, but It's not what will come to mind when I recommend it to people.

6/10

Edited December 7, 2024 by eriwancoselyn

[18th Shard he/him]

4 hours ago, yulerule said:

I'm on Chapter 41, and my current set of thoghts:

 

Is Talmut another name for Taln?

 

 

"plus shields lined in aluminum, which could stop a Blade too."

What are shardblade sheaths made out of? or the edge duller for sparring?

If aluminum, then that should be an old tactic.

 

Also, it feels ...odd... that a thin sheet of aluminum can stop a Blade. Even with a thick shield behind it.

 

I... don't like Szeth's spen.

 

 

 "those maces were lined in aluminum—for Adolin tried and failed to slice one in half."

Again, this just feels fundamentally wrong to me. Possibly because aluminum is so common, and everyone has foil. Please tell me it was discovered recently, and is exorbitantly expensive? That would make me feel better.

Yep, Talmut is Taln. 

As for the aluminum, it blocks the magic ability to cut through anything. Without that, it's a matter of if a normal sword can cut through the shield/mace. Shardbearers don't tend to swing the Blade like a huge heavy weapon, because it's harder to control it, so while it might scratch the aluminum, it's either not deep enough to cut through or the gap is too small for the Blade to get into the interior and actually cut it. You will see a moment where someone cuts through something aluminum with a Blade later, and they talk about how it works a little. 

[yulerule]

I'm on Chapter 55 right now, and a couple of thoughts/phrases. 

 

This is your stew. You can simmer in it.

I really like this. Phrase.

 

 

I really like the pile of Investiture that is fake-Wit.

 

 

So the first Lift story was two years ago.

 

 

Elodi. Is that the same singer that goes by El now?

 

 

 But with the Everstorm parked here … (i wonder if that's an anachronism... Cars park but horses don't...)

 

Chapter 60

 an excuse to weed out bad actors.

Again a term that's a little jarring to me... But didn't Sanderson say that this is a translation? That they're not actually speaking English, this is a translation from their actual language? 

Edited December 7, 2024 by yulerule

[Kered he/him]

My brains going to explode with WaT thoughts so I’m data dumping here for future reference 

 

Random thoughts 

 

Where is Syl? 
 

where is Gavinor? 

Honor’s power telling Taravan that Dalinar belonged to someONE else and not someTHING else as he faded from the cognitive. 

Dalinar mentioning Kaladin having a “piece” before he gave up his oaths. 
 

A whole city worth of people in the Spiritual. 
 

Navani in flippin stasis. 

 

No more stormlight. Logical but whaaaaaaaa. 
 

the anti storm light dagger killing only the stormlight part of Mraizes Cryptic. 
 

new shardpool. 
 

Wits manner of survival. I mean come on.

Where did Rysn decide to go? 
 

the “Exist” Dawnshard. 
 

Reason. We finally have all 16, and 2 new vessel names. 
 

This book went out of its ways to show the flaws in the decision of Shattering old Ado. Shards without the context of the others are baaad. 
 

Shards can grow and become more self aware??? Could this lead to changes of intent or at the very least a shard becoming a more nuanced and complete version of their intent? 
 

how tf is this return going to work. Even disregarding the new mind and soul split, it’s not making sense to me. The reason the fused tortured the heralds was because they knew it was the only way to get unbound. So is it just going to be Retribution trying to torture them? And if they’re not feeling the torture why in the hells would they return in the first place? If they do return doesn’t that just mean that Retri can just suck up the Spren? Ya know, the more I type this and think it through, the more confused I get lol. 

Positives 

Kaladin. All of it. His ending and relationship progression with Szeth most of all. 
99% of the vision scenes. Particularly Ashyn exodus to the betrayal of Mishram. 
Shallans final showdown. 
Odiums interludes. 
Tanavasts POVs. Was a risky move on Brandon’s part but I think it was executed well. 
“let’s kick some Fused ass”. 
Szeth throwing a spoon at Aux. 

Negatives 
 

I feel like this is gunna be a popular one but Gavinor. Predictable and pointless. Considering Dalinars final decision, it made the Gavinor choice being champion pointless and lackluster. Seems like that it was just there for shock value. 
 

NOT SEEING TALN FIGHT. 
 

Pretty much all of the shattered plains stuff minus like 2 scenes. 
 

Pretty much any scene that was happening at the same time has Dalinar and Navani seeing the Herald visions. I think they should have had a dedicated, solo Day or at least drastically less pov jumps. I get it, the pacing. But those POV jumps prejudiced me against most other PoVs after the Herald visions excepting Kaladin and Szeth. 
 

the reveal of what caused the Shattered Plains. Felt suuuuper lack luster because it was almost talked about in passing. But I’m biased being a fan that’s been around pre WoK. 

This might be unpopular and I have no direct evidence just a vibe. It feels like Brandon wrote Sunlit Man then he wrote what Sig was going to do in WaT. The giving up of his oaths, the Dawnshard transfer and meeting of Aux, it all feels shoehorned. It didn’t feel organic. 

the Retribution name. Idk why but meeeehhh.

 

[Biceratops]

16 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

Did you guys have already finished wtf? 

Took the day off from work so I could do so, yes. And I'm now sleep-deprived, but one Cosmere book richer.

 

The entire book felt like a Sanderlanch. It felt like something was happening in pretty much every chapter. It felt cramped and exhausting - intentionally so, but still. 

The book surprised me a fair bit. I wasn't expecting Dalinar to Ascend. I wasn't expecting Retribution. I wasn't even expecting Odium to have a shardpool, though that makes perfect sense in hindsight. I'm very surprised at how total Taravangian's victory was, and how scattered the main cast is now.

 

I think my favorite part is how Dalinar stopped kicking the can down the road and forced the rest of the Cosmere to get off their butts and take Odium seriously. I really love how brutal and terrifying Taravangian is now. I love the deep dive into Roshar's past. I loved the chapters written from the perspective of the Shards. I like the sheer amount of foreshadowing that finally paid off. I even liked the wider Cosmere references, since they didn't seem forced here - they actually felt appropriate, given the events of this book. 

 

Gavinor we all saw coming, right?  It was foreshadowed with the Death Rattles and of course Odium was going to choose a champion that Dalinar would be unwilling to kill. No surprise there, nor with Dalinar's reaction.

 

No idea what all that fallen moon stuff is about, though. I would've liked to hear a bit more about that.

[Darvys]

Loved the experience, despite the flaws, though I admit to skimming through the parts I disliked or felt dragged on too long or were unnecessary starting from the midpoint, which no doubt increased my enjoyment overall, most shocking to me, is that I didn't hesitate to skip Dalinar's confrontation with Gav/Taravangian up to his ascension to Honor as I simply couldn't be arsed to care, there is no permutation of that story beat that could interest me, so I just didn't bother reading it.

I particularly enjoyed everything involving the Heralds in either realm and wish El had also gotten any sort of focus rather than a tease to his future involvement.

Kaladin and Szeth's arc was satisfying and Dalinar's ending a great relief. I would trade most of Azir's and Shallan's screen time for a fused/singer centric arc any time of any day, everything else was fine, mostly enjoyable to read though little of it truly memorable.

Looking forward to Jasnah's growth, the Heralds old and new, and for the singers and fused to truly be part of this story as I am weary of being limited to the human and listener pov.

7/10, Stormlight has all the elements needed for a masterpiece story, but I feel they are being squandered at many turns, with only flashes of brilliance and compelling characters that keep me hooked.

 

 

[+Child of Hodor]

Overall it’s above RoW and below WoK on my favorites list. It’s a good book. 

I loved the new visions and Tanavast POVs. 

Gavinor thing was underwhelming ultimately. I’m cool with the way Dalinar’s final scenes played out overall.

I enjoyed the Shinovar trip a lot.

Every time we were in Azir and the Shattered Plains I was a bit bored. 

BAM more of an important historical figure than important present day actor. 

I was kinda tired of Mraize at the start of the book but he became more interesting during this book. 

Should have seen Kaladin becoming a Herald coming, other people did. I didn’t want the Oathpact restored but they made enough changes to it that it’s not the same doomed endeavor. 

I don’t think it’s that much like Hero of Ages. There’s a Shard merger, but there are 16 of these things some are going to merge. He’s gotta be allowed to merge shards more than once in these books. 

I thought it was heavily foreshadowed that merging a shard or more with Odium is the way to give it the contest it lacks and restrain it somewhat. 

I really enjoyed Taravangian not being able to gloat over Dalinar. Go kick rocks Taravangian. Tired of him. Can’t for Jasnah to out maneuver him in Book 10. Oh wait I have to wait at least 20 years for that .

[eriwancoselyn]

1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said:

I don’t think it’s that much like Hero of Ages. There’s a Shard merger, but there are 16 of these things some are going to merge. He’s gotta be allowed to merge shards more than once in these books. 

 for me, it's not just the shard merger that makes it like hero of ages. I totally get that there are a lot of shard merges in our future. 

it's more the whole bait and switch of the thing. the person predicted to take the power ends up heroically surrendering it to ultimately do more good.it feels like such an echo of hero of ages that I can't help but compare the two. 

it's just that there are a million different ways to write someone taking a shard. there's no need to redo something you already did great in another book.

 

[Inevitability]

21 hours ago, basement_boi said:

What’s going on with the fourth moon? Why is this such a big secret, and why is it special? Does it imply that a fourth shard is in the system?

I genuinely hope this is the direction this is going 

[+Child of Hodor]

22 hours ago, basement_boi said:

-What’s going on with the fourth moon? Why is this such a big secret, and why is it special? Does it imply that a fourth shard is in the system?

[Inevitability]

My initial reaction: 8/10

-i don’t love everything but this book was 10x better than RoW 

-I agree with the comment above - very heartbroken we were robbed of Taln’s action scene

-I personally do not care that Gavinor was the other champion. Ultimately the contest become not as important to me because what Kal/Szeth were doing was bigger to me. Plus now when Brandon does a Gav and Lift romance it doesn’t have to be a nasty age difference lol

-I think most of us wanted Shallan to be out in the greater cosmere. I sincerely hope she ships out as a worldhopper rather than stick around

-can I say again how much better of a book this was than Rhythm of Snore…

-very satisfying to see Jasnah get humbled. Once it became known that she was right about the Almighty, she was simply self righteous. Now that she has been brought low, there’s room for character growth and maybe some compassion and empathy for other people

-I will say this though, I hope we get less POV viewpoints in future books. I really miss how limited Way of Kings was. There were a few times where I noticed in Szeth/Kal sections where Brandon would write from both persons head in the same section

-most importantly, I’m so glad that this ended up on a low note. This is far more compelling 

Overall- 8/10 for me

First arc rankings:

Way of Kings

Wind and Truth

Words of Radiance

Oathbringer

Rhythm of War

Edited December 7, 2024 by Inevitability

[KaladinWorldsinger]

21 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

It's not like Dalinar really learned much of anything that Cultivation couldn't have just told him in a couple sentences (Honor+Odium directly fighting would destroy world but Honor wants to fight Odium. Tanavast betrayed BAM and that's why he lost Honor.) 

This is my one major complaint with this book. If cultivation thought that Dalinar needed to learn all this.... Why not just tell him????

[Inevitability]

4 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

This is my one major complaint with this book. If cultivation thought that Dalinar needed to learn all this.... Why not just tell him????

I would say that to tell him would be against the Intent of her Shard. She’s all about growth. Very similar to the whole “journey before destination” thing

[KaladinWorldsinger]

1 minute ago, Inevitability said:

I would say that to tell him would be against the Intent of her Shard. She’s all about growth. Very similar to the whole “journey before destination” thing

Why tho?