Frustration Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) So with the recent revelation that Virtuosity is a Shard I think we finally know the Intent of the Wisdom/Prudance shard. Now hear me out, I have some reason for this. First we have to define Virtuosity From google: Quote vir·tu·os·i·ty /ˌvərCHəˈwäsədē/ noun great skill in music or another artistic pursuit. "a performance of considerable virtuosity" So the most basic understanding of the shard is artistic skill. However just like how Honor means more than a code of Ethics I think Virtuosity means more as well. Art isn't just the making of something, it's also the knowledge of how to make it. I think Virtuosity is the knowledge of creating, especially art. And with how often the golden ratio came up, which was a common mathamatical prinicple used to create some of the most famous works of art I think that it's not a stretch to say that the knowledge is included in Virtuosity's intent. Additionally the Wisdom shard belives that survival might not be the best thing for it. Spoiler Paleo (paraphrased) Is Wisdom a Shard? If so, how bad does it want to survive? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There is a Shard with a similar intent. The Shard has realized that survival might not be the most desirable/important. Footnote: Paleo later asked Brandon for clarification on this one because he couldn't quite remember the survival part when he wrote it down. Brandon stressed again what the Shard has realized. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) And Virtuosity splintered herself. Therefore I prepose that the Wisdom/Prudance shard is Virtuosity. Edited March 18, 2022 by Frustration 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lego Mistborn Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 That may be likely, since wisdom implies great understanding of the best decisions, therefore she did what was wise for her people or the Cosmere at large. Although I don't see how helping Odium does that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpurPhönix Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 I wouldn't say that Wisdom is knowledge. As the old joke goes, knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing it still doesn't belong on a fruit salad. A variety of life experiences may help one be wise, but I don't think I'd go so far to say that knowledge is related to Wisdom and then of course we still have the leap form Virtuosity to knowledge 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, PurpurPhönix said: I wouldn't say that Wisdom is knowledge. As the old joke goes, knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing it still doesn't belong on a fruit salad. A variety of life experiences may help one be wise, but I don't think I'd go so far to say that knowledge is related to Wisdom and then of course we still have the leap form Virtuosity to knowledge Brandon didn't say the Intent was Wisdom, just close thereto. Edited March 18, 2022 by Frustration 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpurPhönix Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 Admittedly, but he did also say that it was close to Prudence, which knowledge is even farther from 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 38 minutes ago, PurpurPhönix said: Admittedly, but he did also say that it was close to Prudence, which knowledge is even farther from He did not say that, he said that Prudence sounded like a shard name. Spoiler Paleo In May, in Germany, you told me that... or I asked whether Wisdom was a Shard, and you said it was or something like it, and that wisdom was close to an intent of a Shard, and you also told me that it has realized that survival isn't necessarily the most important thing for it. I wanted to ask whether it has realized that over time or was it from the get go? Brandon Sanderson Over time. Paleo Okay, so then naturally, my next question: Is it the survival Shard? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. Paleo And then somebody actually came up with another good probable name. Is Prudence close? Brandon Sanderson Prudence sounds an awful lot like a Shard name. That's some excellent theorizing there. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpurPhönix Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 Ah yes, the wiki could use some adjusting, it says he said it was similar to both but yeah the citations, do not support that at all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 Just now, PurpurPhönix said: Ah yes, the wiki could use some adjusting, it says he said it was similar to both but yeah the citations, do not support that at all Don't you just love the coppermind sometimes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 15 hours ago, Frustration said: Additionally the Wisdom shard belives that survival might not be the best thing for it. Reveal hidden contents Paleo (paraphrased) Is Wisdom a Shard? If so, how bad does it want to survive? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There is a Shard with a similar intent. The Shard has realized that survival might not be the most desirable/important. Footnote: Paleo later asked Brandon for clarification on this one because he couldn't quite remember the survival part when he wrote it down. Brandon stressed again what the Shard has realized. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) And Virtuosity splintered herself. Therefore I prepose that the Wisdom/Prudance shard is Virtuosity. Note that it's still possible for Virtuosity's vessel to be alive as a sliver 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 8 minutes ago, mathiau said: Note that it's still possible for Virtuosity's vessel to be alive as a sliver Well, sort of. Hoid said splintered herself, not "splintered the shard" so she was still the vessel when that happened. Given this WoB, while technically possible to live through a Shard's splintering the Vessel doesn't have a good time after. Spoiler Wetlander Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance? Brandon Sanderson I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases. Hoser Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering? Brandon Sanderson Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings. Hoser So he could have survived the Splintering... Brandon Sanderson He could have survived the Splintering. Hoser ...as a mortal... Brandon Sanderson Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then... Hoser ...passed away in his sleep... Brandon Sanderson Right. Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 45 minutes ago, Frustration said: Well, sort of. Hoid said splintered herself, not "splintered the shard" so she was still the vessel when that happened. Given this WoB, while technically possible to live through a Shard's splintering the Vessel doesn't have a good time after. Reveal hidden contents Wetlander Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance? Brandon Sanderson I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases. Hoser Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering? Brandon Sanderson Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings. Hoser So he could have survived the Splintering... Brandon Sanderson He could have survived the Splintering. Hoser ...as a mortal... Brandon Sanderson Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then... Hoser ...passed away in his sleep... Brandon Sanderson Right. Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013) I was thinking maybe the Vessel just let go of the Shard and let it collapse on itself 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacontime Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) I'm partial to this theory as well. If the shard's intent were simply to create art, Sanderson could have named it "Artistry" or "Creativity" or something like that. Virtuosity isn't artistic ability. It's the mastery of the technical aspects of an art form. It's the intersection between showmanship and expertise. Quote The reviewer might call the musician “a great virtuoso” but will qualify that praise by saying that he or she “is not yet an artist.” The phrase “empty virtuosity” appears so many times in reviews that it has become a cliché. The implication is that virtuosity only matters when put in the service of something deeper—that is, art. The critic invariably sees virtuosity as something crude, never mind that a jaw-dropping performance might elicit uninhibited shouts of “bravo” from the audience, and encore after encore until the house lights finally go on. By suggesting that a highly developed technique, one that allows a musician to play the most difficult pieces, has no value of its own suggests that virtuosity is expressionless, without feeling, insincere, cold. -- from an essay titled "On Virtuosity" The word "virtuoso" is most commonly applied to those who can expertly play music, but a hacker can be a virtuoso at manipulating computer systems; an athlete can be a virtuoso at their sport. And the word "virtuoso" was historically applied to refer to a scholar or a connoisseur. I'm a bit biased though. My personal guess for the intent of the similar-to-wisdom shard was "Perfection", so my guess will have been close if Virtuosity's intent is about technical mastery instead of art appreciation. Virtuosity might be God's own perfect skill, separated from the virtues that give meaning to that perfection. Also, as a little bonus theory: I propose that Virtuosity was initially offered to Hoid, but he turned it down. It fits with his personality and powers. Quote The Only Joe (paraphrased) Was Hoid offered one of the Shards we know about? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) You know, I can't remember which Shards I've shown you, Wait, no I haven't shown you that one. Firefight Portland signing (Jan. 16, 2015) Edited March 18, 2022 by bacontime 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted March 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, bacontime said: Also, as a little bonus theory: I propose that Virtuosity was initially offered to Hoid, but he turned it down. It fits with his personality and powers. He said it was Endowment, though that was in 2013, and your WoB is from 2015 so it could have changed Spoiler theofficetroll (paraphrased) If Hoid were tempted by a Shard, which one would it be? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Endowment. SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 8 minutes ago, bacontime said: I'm partial to this theory as well. If the shard's intent were simply to create art, Sanderson could have named it "Artistry" or "Creativity" or something like that. About that Quote Questioner If you were entrusted with a Shard of Adonalsium, which Shard? Brandon Sanderson Ummm... Heh heh heh... maybe Ingenuity. Sofia signing (March 28, 2017) Probably an earlier version of Virtuosity (arguably even more connected to Survival) 9 minutes ago, Frustration said: He said it was Endowment, though that was in 2013, and your WoB is from 2015 so it could have changed Hide contents theofficetroll (paraphrased) If Hoid were tempted by a Shard, which one would it be? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Endowment. SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013) I'm not 100% the questions "what Shard would tempt Hoid the most?" and "what Shard would be tempted by Hoid the most?" have the same answers 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacontime Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, mathiau said: [Ingenuity is] probably an earlier version of Virtuosity (arguably even more connected to Survival) I had pegged Ingenuity as proto-Invention, but yeah, it could be proto-Virtuosity instead. Nice spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathiau Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, bacontime said: I had pegged Ingenuity as proto-Invention, but yeah, it could be proto-Virtuosity instead. Nice spot. So had I, until yesterday 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacontime Posted April 5, 2022 Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 Based on comments from the SP3 livestream, Virtuosity is indeed about artistry. In fact, the shard was very nearly called Artistry. Quote Jofwu Can you elaborate on why you picked the name Virtuosity? As in, what does it mean to you and how does it fit in to the Cosmere? Brandon Sanderson So Virtuosity is specifically relating to artistic talent and artistic sense. I actually was just debating between Artistry and Virtuosity, and I settled on Virtuosity after a decently long debate; it's one of the reasons I haven't canonized this one yet. It is the last big hole. (I know there is one I haven't revealed that you guys kind of know what that one's general Intent is so this is the last big one to reveal, as I believe. I think there is only one, and I think you know part of that one. Maybe I am wrong. I'll have to go back and see; it's hard to remember what you guys know and what you don't know sometimes.) I wanted to get this one into the Cosmere so that we basically have all sixteen, now. The big decision was: what do I call them? And at the end, Virtuosity just rang to me in the same way Odium did, and so I picked that one. This is the Shard of artistic intent, and artistic talent, and artistic appreciation. Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022) Ah well, it was a fun theory. Also, someone did end up asking whether Hoid was offered Virtuosity Quote Questioner Is Virtuosity the Shard Hoid turned down? Could it have become something different if he were the one who took it? Brandon Sanderson It could have become something different slightly. But if he had taken it it would have remained as Virtuosity. That does have some influence over. That is a very good guess. I'm not going to tell you yes or no, I'm just going to tell you you made a very good guess. Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted April 6, 2022 Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 An interesting theory on this topic I saw suggested on Reddit: Quote “Yes, a common answer,” Wit said, plucking at a few low notes. “I once asked this question of some very wise scholars. What do men consider the most valuable of talents? One mentioned artistic ability, as you so keenly guessed. Another chose great intellect. The final chose the talent to invent, the ability to design and create marvelous devices.” He didn’t play a specific tune on the enthir, just plucks here and there, an occasional scale or fifth. Like chitchat in string form. “Aesthetic genius,” Wit said, “invention, acumen, creativity. Noble ideals indeed. Most men would pick one of those, if given the choice, and name them the greatest of talents.” He plucked a string. “What beautiful liars we are.” ... “In this,” Wit said, “as in all things, our actions give us away. If an artist creates a work of powerful beauty—using new and innovative techniques—she will be lauded as a master, and will launch a new movement in aesthetics. Yet what if another, working independently with that exact level of skill, were to make the same accomplishments the very next month? Would she find similar acclaim? No. She’d be called derivative. “Intellect. If a great thinker develops a new theory of mathematics, science, or philosophy, we will name him wise. We will sit at his feet and learn, and will record his name in history for thousands upon thousands to revere. But what if another man determines the same theory on his own, then delays in publishing his results by a mere week? Will he be remembered for his greatness? No. He will be forgotten. “Invention. A woman builds a new design of great worth—some fabrial or feat of engineering. She will be known as an innovator. But if someone with the same talent creates the same design a year later—not realizing it has already been crafted—will she be rewarded for her creativity? No. She’ll be called a copier and a forger.” ... “So it’s not the beauty itself we admire. It’s not the force of intellect. It’s not invention, aesthetics, or capacity itself.” Could be Virtuosity, Wisdom*, and Invention? So perhaps Wisdom is along the lines of Acumen/Intellect/Understanding or something in that vein. (Man, coming up with a word that both sounds divine and works as an intention is hard sometimes... I see why he takes so long to canonize these lmao.) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jensen Posted April 6, 2022 Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: An interesting theory on this topic I saw suggested on Reddit: Could be Virtuosity, Wisdom*, and Invention? So perhaps Wisdom is along the lines of Acumen/Intellect/Understanding or something in that vein. (Man, coming up with a word that both sounds divine and works as an intention is hard sometimes... I see why he takes so long to canonize these lmao.) I agree, I've been mulling over this and one I kinda like is "Reason" as it pertains to both logic and existential questions, as wells as functions as sort of pair with Whimsy (or something akin to intuitive knowledge or randomness). Reason also fits with the "survival" focus of the shard; it has formerly drawn the conclusion (reasoned) that the best course of action is to hide, but realised that it now may not be the wisest thing. Edited April 6, 2022 by Jensen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Jensen said: I agree, I've been mulling over this and one I kinda like is "Reason" as it pertains to both logic and existential questions, as wells as functions as sort of pair with Whimsy (or something akin to intuitive knowledge or randomness). Reason also fits with the "survival" focus of the shard; it has formerly drawn the conclusion (reasoned) that the best course of action is to hide, but realised that it now may not be the wisest thing. The Survival Shard is not the "Wisdom" shard Spoiler Paleo (paraphrased) Is Wisdom a Shard? If so, how bad does it want to survive? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There is a Shard with a similar intent. The Shard has realized that survival might not be the most desirable/important. Footnote: Paleo later asked Brandon for clarification on this one because he couldn't quite remember the survival part when he wrote it down. Brandon stressed again what the Shard has realized. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jensen Posted April 6, 2022 Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Frustration said: The Survival Shard is not the "Wisdom" shard He's saying there is a Shard with a similar intent as Wisdom (we can call it XX) and that XX has realized that survival might not be the most desirable. So unless XX is one of the already named Shards, XX is the survival Shard. I know you have proposed that Invention is the survival Shard, but I fail to see how matches its intent. Though maybe in its "inventivness" in its method of hiding to survive. Edited April 6, 2022 by Jensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Jensen said: He's saying there is a Shard with a similar intent as Wisdom (we can call it XX) and that XX has realized that survival might not be the most desirable. So unless XX is one of the already named Shards, XX is the survival Shard. I know you have proposed that Invention is the survival Shard, but I fail to see how matches its intent. Though maybe in its "inventivness" in its method of hiding to survive. How is a Shard not wanting to survive proof that it is the Survival shard? And survival isn't the shard's inent just it's goal Spoiler Seonid I've heard about a Shard that just wants to survive, hiding off-- it doesn't have a planet it doesn't-- Brandon Sanderson Right. Seonid --out there in space, trying to survive. Does it have the intent of like Fear, or something like that? Brandon Sanderson The intent is related but only tangentially. Mostly it just knows what's going on and is smart enough to get out of there. Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmulatonStromenkiin Posted April 6, 2022 Report Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 3/17/2022 at 10:12 PM, PurpurPhönix said: I wouldn't say that Wisdom is knowledge. As the old joke goes, knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing it still doesn't belong on a fruit salad. A variety of life experiences may help one be wise, but I don't think I'd go so far to say that knowledge is related to Wisdom and then of course we still have the leap form Virtuosity to knowledge And philosophy is wondering if it makes ketchup a smoothie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajaxe Posted April 9, 2022 Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 3/18/2022 at 1:41 PM, Frustration said: Well, sort of. Hoid said splintered herself, not "splintered the shard" so she was still the vessel when that happened. Given this WoB, while technically possible to live through a Shard's splintering the Vessel doesn't have a good time after. Reveal hidden contents Wetlander Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance? Brandon Sanderson I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases. Hoser Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering? Brandon Sanderson Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings. Hoser So he could have survived the Splintering... Brandon Sanderson He could have survived the Splintering. Hoser ...as a mortal... Brandon Sanderson Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then... Hoser ...passed away in his sleep... Brandon Sanderson Right. Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013) Doesn’t Endowment “splinter herself” with the creation of each divine breath? Are said breaths not “Splinters of Endowment”? To me this says that splintering especially the self inflicted variety may not be as detrimental to the shard or the vessel as being splintered by an external force. Endowment is still keeping up with her correspondence for instance and seems aware of Hoid’s activities on Nalthis, which implies the splintering wasn’t grievously debilitating. Have said all that I am aware there is some speculation about the mental state of Endowment, so maybe they are the exception not the rule. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Ajaxe said: Doesn’t Endowment “splinter herself” with the creation of each divine breath? Are said breaths not “Splinters of Endowment”? To me this says that splintering especially the self inflicted variety may not be as detrimental to the shard or the vessel as being splintered by an external force. Endowment is still keeping up with her correspondence for instance and seems aware of Hoid’s activities on Nalthis, which implies the splintering wasn’t grievously debilitating. Have said all that I am aware there is some speculation about the mental state of Endowment, so maybe they are the exception not the rule. That's not quite the same. While what Endowment does can be called splintering it's is definatly not what Virtuousity did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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