Chapters 23 & 24

[+robardin he/him]

Hmm, I may have to reconsider my assessment of the "masked woman in charge at the door to the Ghostblood Staff Meeting" being a fake, at least a little bit.

The sketches Shallan received from Wit were AFTER she returned to Urithiru -- so Ala wouldn't be able to pass on which ones they were, I don't think?

They were first mentioned in Ch. 3, when she spoke to Wit via seon (i.e., the GBs know all about this conversation):

Quote

“Wit,” Shallan said, stepping closer. The glowing version of his face focused on her. “My brothers are safe? You’re certain?”

“Very certain, brilliant one,” he said back, softly. “You’re sure the Ghostbloods will move against you?”

“Yes,” she said. After a year and a half of flirting with the Ghostbloods, she’d at last stepped up and said no. Doing so had essentially declared war on them. She found Adolin’s hand for support. He knew the entire story now. “Wit, I know their faces, their plans… I’m likely the greatest threat on the planet to their organization, and they tried to kill Jasnah for less. Everyone I love is in danger.”

“I have to manage Dalinar and try to prepare him,” Wit said, “but I think I can help you as well. I’ve been watching Mraize’s little crew; I’ll send your people my drawings of their members. But take care, Shallan. I know this group and their leader. They can be brutal.”

“As can I,” Shallan whispered.

And as for what those drawings were like, going back to re-read Ch. 16,

Quote

There were twelve pictures, sketches of the Ghostbloods that Wit had identified. Most of these faces were familiar, but a few were new. Shallan examined two in particular, a woman and a man who wore hoods and masks. Shorter people, with a foreign look to their clothing. Iyatil, master of this cell of Ghostbloods, was an offworlder who always wore a strange wooden mask. Neither of these depictions were of her.

A note at the bottom said, Looks like Iyatil has called in offworlder reinforcements. Watch them. They’re dangerous.

“I scouted the tower earlier, as you said,” Stargyle told her. “I spotted these two in the atrium, but they also caught me watching them. Neither of us moved against one another, and I sensed tension in the way they retreated. It’s like… we’re all waiting for the spark that will light the fire.”

So Hoid sent drawings of twelve GBs that he had "identified", i.e., he knew they were GBs from having seen/tracked them on or off Roshar in his wider travels, and saw them recently enough to call them "reinforcements" since Shallan's break with them.

"Most of these faces were familiar", such as his sketches of Mraize and Iyatil, but she focused on two, a man and a woman, "who wore hoods and masks", who had "caught [Stargyle] watching them".

Placing one of the two that the GBs know or suspect that Shallan has spotted and likely identified as the door guard still smells like a "honey trap" to me, but it seems Shallan may have a bit more of an edge of surprise here than I originally thought.

Not much, though. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Elder said:

Can non-Radiant Spren (or even Radiant Spren) express the desire to no longer be an inanimate object?  The Spren of Soulcasters are characterized as “non-responsive.”

The Oathgate spren from a few chapters back are your answer. Also the Suppressor Fabrial spren was more responsive than the Soulcaster spren. RoW ch 19:

Quote

“Indeed. The spren refused to talk to us, but didn’t seem as insensate as the ones in Soulcasters. This reinforces your theory that ancient fabrials— things like the pumps, the Oathgates, and the Soulcasters—somehow imprisoned their spren in the Cognitive Realm. When we pressed it, the spren closed its eyes pointedly. It seems to be working with the enemy deliberately, which raises questions about your nephew’s spren. Dare we trust it?”

 

1 hour ago, Elder said:

perhaps there’s a way a bondsmith could do it… but there’s only 3 bondsmiths.  How many fabrials can they administrate?

I think the direction this is meant to go is the democratization of power via technology.  The current fabrial design doesn’t depend on radiants.  I’m not sure the more humane fabrials of the future should, especially such a limited group.  That would be devastatingly limiting.

This is a good point, but we and Navani don't even know how manifested Fabrials are made. That should have been her top priority because it might be as easy as just asking a spren to manifest as a Fabrial. Navani wasn't thinking about what you wrote, she was only thinking about finding a compromise (which is fair), but she didn't even explore the most obvious and potentially most rewarding solution to this problem. That's my problem. She should be talking with the Sibling about how to manifest Fabrials, if Lesser Spren can be made into Fabrials and those sorts of questions. 

I do believe it's not as easy and it does require someone's assistance. It should work similarly to how Yumi was manifesting Spirits as devices, which requires special invested ability and investiture to facilitate the transformation.

[bmcclure7]

4 hours ago, Sedside said:

Or maybe it could be someone else. There was a character a couple of books ago who had quite the hype around him, he was also supposed to be a Surgebinder, but then all of a sudden he got himself killed by a simple stab in the face from a certain spearman with no training in fighting Shardbearers, which is a strange way for a Surgebinder to die. And then he just disappeared from the plot and everyone forgot about him. Isn't that weird?

This would be cool, but I don’t think they ever said he was a surge binder. he had a dead blade not a living one. I think that confirms pretty much that he was not a surge binder yet. 
 

Both outcomes are interesting. I kind of would like to see a conversation between kel and shallan I’m not sure what he would think of her. And it would be interesting to find out.

4 hours ago, Sedside said:

Or maybe it could be someone else. There was a character a couple of books ago who had quite the hype around him, he was also supposed to be a Surgebinder, but then all of a sudden he got himself killed by a simple stab in the face from a certain spearman with no training in fighting Shardbearers, which is a strange way for a Surgebinder to die. And then he just disappeared from the plot and everyone forgot about him. Isn't that weird?

This would be cool, but I don’t think they ever said he was a surge binder. he had a dead blade not a living one. I think that confirms pretty much that he was not a surge binder yet. 
 

Both outcomes are interesting. I kind of would like to see a conversation between kel and shallan I’m not sure what he would think of her. And it would be interesting to find out.

4 hours ago, Sedside said:

Or maybe it could be someone else. There was a character a couple of books ago who had quite the hype around him, he was also supposed to be a Surgebinder, but then all of a sudden he got himself killed by a simple stab in the face from a certain spearman with no training in fighting Shardbearers, which is a strange way for a Surgebinder to die. And then he just disappeared from the plot and everyone forgot about him. Isn't that weird?

This would be cool, but I don’t think they ever said he was a surge binder. he had a dead blade not a living one. I think that confirms pretty much that he was not a surge binder yet. 
 

Both outcomes are interesting. I kind of would like to see a conversation between kel and shallan I’m not sure what he would think of her. And it would be interesting to find out.

4 hours ago, Sedside said:

Or maybe it could be someone else. There was a character a couple of books ago who had quite the hype around him, he was also supposed to be a Surgebinder, but then all of a sudden he got himself killed by a simple stab in the face from a certain spearman with no training in fighting Shardbearers, which is a strange way for a Surgebinder to die. And then he just disappeared from the plot and everyone forgot about him. Isn't that weird?

This would be cool, but I don’t think they ever said he was a surge binder. he had a dead blade not a living one. I think that confirms pretty much that he was not a surge binder yet. 
 

Both outcomes are interesting. I kind of would like to see a conversation between kel and shallan I’m not sure what he would think of her. And it would be interesting to find out.

[who_slew_aicirtap she/they]

Off topic, but since it wasn't stated outright, I am choosing to believe that Szeth was breakdancing.

I wonder if Kal will use the flute in his therapy somehow.

Edited October 22, 2024 by who_slew_aicirtap

[+robardin he/him]

1 minute ago, who_slew_aicirtap said:

Off topic, but since it wasn't stated outright, I am choosing to believe that Szeth was breakdancing.

I wonder if Kal will use the flute in his therapy somehow.

Breakdancing?

 

To what was obviously....

 

ROCK music?!

[Wanguu He/Him]

I don't think I've seen anyone mention it yet - and I have no evidence to support this - what if Charanarach (AKA Shallan's Mother) is in the ghostbloods meeting and this is how Shallan finds out?

[Wyndle88 he/him]

The Stone in Szeth's pasture is described as 'Orange - Red' in colour and stone is emerging out of the soil. As in the stone is pushed out to the surface from the core. 

 

I wonder if the 3 moons of Violet, Blue, Green were pushed out of Roshar in apocalyptic events of the past and if Roshar would have a 4th moon in the future with the colour 'Orange-Red' thus completing the visible light spectrum of VIBGYOR. 

 

 

[Dofurion]

1 hour ago, who_slew_aicirtap said:

I wonder if Kal will use the flute in his therapy somehow

I'm hoping that during the trip to Kaladin he gets the urge to practice his flute and that's what triggers Szeth to want to talk to him. Since we've seen that the opposite doesn't work.

[RedBlue]

5 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

I kind of would like to see a conversation between kel and shallan I’m not sure what he would think of her. And it would be interesting to find out.

After the initial ‘you have effectively declared shady secret war on my shady secret organisation’ drama, I think Kelsier would really like Shallan. He has a strong tendency to play mentor to bright young people, and Shallan ticks all the right boxes.

[Sedside she/her]

8 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

This would be cool, but I don’t think they ever said he was a surge binder. he had a dead blade not a living one. I think that confirms pretty much that he was not a surge binder yet. 

Well, yes, he had a dead blade, and that's why any assumption he could be alive is so easily dismissed. And this is what makes me obsessed with this guy, lol. Because I have a lot of questions about him, and no answers.

It's not 100% confirmed he was a Surgebinder, but there are some hints. Taravangian's interlude in RoW:

Spoiler

Taravangian breathed in and out, struggling to regain control. He looked to Adrotagia, who sat in the middle of a circle of servants and soldiers, all sworn to the Diagram. “Who is it?” he asked softly. “Who is this Surgebinder?”
“Jasnah’s ward?” Adrotagia said.
They had been startled when that one arrived on the Shattered Plains. Already they hypothesized that the girl had been trained. If not by Jasnah, then by the girl’s brother, before his death.

WoB (very vague but whatever)
Also we know he probably was with Skybreakers for quite a long time (~5 years), so he had plenty of opportunities to bond a spren.
We also have several examples of Shardbearers that have bonded a spren (Renarin, Eshonai, Elhokar, Shallan with dead Testament, Gavilar maybe). So he could be another one.

But the most important thing I don't get is why he is even in the story. I mean, lets imagine that the Shardbearer Kaladin killed was someone else - does it change anything? After that let's mentally remove Helaran from SA at all. Everything he had done could be easily done by someone else or written differently, and nothing would have changed.

Also, so many contradictions. What do characters say or think about him? Shallan - oh, he was so good and brave and strong and the best person in the world. Lin Davar - all my sons are despicable cowards, only Helaran was worthy (WoR 73). Mraize - Nale was impressed by him and invited him to join Skybreakers with the display of great power and Shards (could be a lie, but still). What does Helaran do on page? Leaves home shortly after his mother dies, abandoning his family to suffer his father's ill temper, promises to help his siblings, but never actually does, and eventually kills himself against a spearman untrained in fighting Shardbearers and even without Radiant powers. I mean, Kaladin is good, but I doubt someone like, say, Relis would have let such thing to happen.

And just a little bit more. Lin Davar ordered him assassinated - why? I mean not even why he did it, but why Brandon wrote it? Just as another proof that Lin Davar is a very bad person? And another detail - on Middlefest Wit told Shallan that he met Helaran, and that he was in Alethkar on that time. It's not exactly but still quite close to the time Tien died. And Mraize was aware about the Surgebinder in Amaram's army, and he also said he was fascinated by Lightweavers.

And now let's just imagine, as a crack theory, that Helaran was connected to the Ghostbloods. Maybe he was their spy within the Skybreakers (or even the Diagram, who knows). Skybreakers found out about Tien and sent Helaran after him. Maybe he killed him, maybe not, but he could find Tien's Cryptic afterwards and make a bond. He had a Lightweaver sister after all. And what if then he found out that his father had sent assassins after him? Or maybe it was about Taravangian being aware of him. Or something else. But what if he decided to fake his death for whatever reasons? He could have become a perfect "dead" Ghostblood agent, especially if he was both Lightweaver and Skybreaker. Four powerful Surges. And what's the best way to convince the world you are 100% dead? I think dropping a Shardblade will do. Especially when you don't need one. And I guess if the Blade was unbonded, it would not disappear even if the person holding it was still alive. As a Lightweaver he could manage it perfectly - create an illusion of a wound over his face, escape to Shadesmar after, or fly away if he was a Skybreaker as well. I mean, I'm just imagining all of it, of course he could simply be as dead as it is stated now, but I really want my boy Helaran to still be a factor in this story 

Edited October 23, 2024 by Sedside
typo

[+Oltux72 he/him]

10 hours ago, Wanguu said:

I don't think I've seen anyone mention it yet - and I have no evidence to support this - what if Charanarach (AKA Shallan's Mother) is in the ghostbloods meeting and this is how Shallan finds out?

If the Ghostbloods had a Herald in their employ, it would be very hard to explain why they are chasing Kalak so hard.

[Slappyface]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

If the Ghostbloods had a Herald in their employ, it would be very hard to explain why they are chasing Kalak so hard.

I believe they chase Kalak so hard because of his knowledge about Ba-Ado-Mishram, he is the only one who knows what happened according to him.

Edited October 23, 2024 by Slappyface

[The Stick]

1 hour ago, Slappyface said:

I believe they chase Kalak so hard because of his knowledge about Ba-Ado-Mishram, he was the only Herald present at her capture.

I seen to recall that Nale was also present.

[+Child of Hodor]

2 minutes ago, The Stick said:

I seen to recall that Nale was also present.

In my mind he was there as well, but I think I just assumed that because Nale and Kalak hang out a lot. Kalak said he was the only person alive who knows what happened to BAM in Ch. 3 of WaT.

Quote

“I was at Urithiru when the plan to capture Mishram was conceived. Then… I joined them on their mission. I’m… I guess I’m the only one alive who actually knows what happened to her. That’s why the Ghostbloods, and their cursed Lord of Scars, want me.”

 

[Slappyface]

10 minutes ago, The Stick said:

I seen to recall that Nale was also present.

You are absolutely correct. Will edit my post^^

Edited October 23, 2024 by Slappyface

[bmcclure7]

7 hours ago, Sedside said:

Well, yes, he had a dead blade, and that's why any assumption he could be alive is so easily dismissed. And this is what makes me obsessed with this guy, lol. Because I have a lot of questions about him, and no answers.

It's not 100% confirmed he was a Surgebinder, but there are some hints. Taravangian's interlude in RoW:

  Hide contents

Taravangian breathed in and out, struggling to regain control. He looked to Adrotagia, who sat in the middle of a circle of servants and soldiers, all sworn to the Diagram. “Who is it?” he asked softly. “Who is this Surgebinder?”
“Jasnah’s ward?” Adrotagia said.
They had been startled when that one arrived on the Shattered Plains. Already they hypothesized that the girl had been trained. If not by Jasnah, then by the girl’s brother, before his death.

WoB (very vague but whatever)
Also we know he probably was with Skybreakers for quite a long time (~5 years), so he had plenty of opportunities to bond a spren.
We also have several examples of Shardbearers that have bonded a spren (Renarin, Eshonai, Elhokar, Shallan with dead Testament, Gavilar maybe). So he could be another one.

But the most important thing I don't get is why he is even in the story. I mean, lets imagine that the Shardbearer Kaladin killed was someone else - does it change anything? After that let's mentally remove Helaran from SA at all. Everything he had done could be easily done by someone else or written differently, and nothing would have changed.

Also, so many contradictions. What do characters say or think about him? Shallan - oh, he was so good and brave and strong and the best person in the world. Lin Davar - all my sons are despicable cowards, only Helaran was worthy (WoR 73). Mraize - Nale was impressed by him and invited him to join Skybreakers with the display of great power and Shards (could be a lie, but still). What does Helaran do on page? Leaves home shortly after his mother dies, abandoning his family to suffer his father's ill temper, promises to help his siblings, but never actually does, and eventually kills himself against a spearman untrained in fighting Shardbearers and even without Radiant powers. I mean, Kaladin is good, but I doubt someone like, say, Relis would have let such thing to happen.

And just a little bit more. Lin Davar ordered him assassinated - why? I mean not even why he did it, but why Brandon wrote it? Just as another proof that Lin Davar is a very bad person? And another detail - on Middlefest Wit told Shallan that he met Helaran, and that he was in Alethkar on that time. It's not exactly but still quite close to the time Tien died. And Mraize was aware about the Surgebinder in Amaram's army, and he also said he was fascinated by Lightweavers.

And now let's just imagine, as a crack theory, that Helaran was connected to the Ghostbloods. Maybe he was their spy within the Skybreakers (or even the Diagram, who knows). Skybreakers found out about Tien and sent Helaran after him. Maybe he killed him, maybe not, but he could find Tien's Cryptic afterwards and make a bond. He had a Lightweaver sister after all. And what if then he found out that his father had sent assassins after him? Or maybe it was about Taravangian being aware of him. Or something else. But what if he decided to fake his death for whatever reasons? He could have become a perfect "dead" Ghostblood agent, especially if he was both Lightweaver and Skybreaker. Four powerful Surges. And what's the best way to convince the world you are 100% dead? I think dropping a Shardblade will do. Especially when you don't need one. And I guess if the Blade was unbonded, it would not disappear even if the person holding it was still alive. As a Lightweaver he could manage it perfectly - create an illusion of a wound over his face, escape to Shadesmar after, or fly away if he was a Skybreaker as well. I mean, I'm just imagining all of it, of course he could simply be as dead as it is stated now, but I really want my boy Helaran to still be a factor in this story 

Well, it would be a Brandon Sanderson style twist that’s for certain

10 hours ago, RedBlue said:

After the initial ‘you have effectively declared shady secret war on my shady secret organisation’ drama, I think Kelsier would really like Shallan. He has a strong tendency to play mentor to bright young people, and Shallan ticks all the right boxes.

Except for the fact that She’s a rich noble woman. lol so you’re right I think that he would want to take her under his wing if for no other reason as she would be a valuable asset.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

In my mind he was there as well, but I think I just assumed that because Nale and Kalak hang out a lot. Kalak said he was the only person alive who knows what happened to BAM in Ch. 3 of WaT.

 

I must say that always struck me as odd. If Kelsier wants to know that, why does he not just make a deal with Kalak? Or outright just pays him?

On the other hand if having this knowledge makes him a target, why doesn't Kalak just publish a learned article in some journal in Silverlight about the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram?

On the gripping hand, if Ba-Ado-Mishram needs to be freed, why hasn't he long ago told at least some people where she is?

[BinarySecond]

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

On the other hand if having this knowledge makes him a target, why doesn't Kalak just publish a learned article in some journal in Silverlight about the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram?

On the gripping hand, if Ba-Ado-Mishram needs to be freed, why hasn't he long ago told at least some people where she is?

Kalak is gripped by indecision. He couldn't even get around to deciding to write an article let alone decide about publishing it.

Same for telling people, he can't decide to tell them because he's afflicted with magical analysis paralysis .

[listerfeend]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

In my mind he was there as well, but I think I just assumed that because Nale and Kalak hang out a lot. Kalak said he was the only person alive who knows what happened to BAM in Ch. 3 of WaT.

I recall that we are outright told that Nale was there for the imprisonment of BAM, but he may not have been there for the "throw her in the SR" portion of things.

[Wanguu He/Him]

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

If the Ghostbloods had a Herald in their employ, it would be very hard to explain why they are chasing Kalak so hard.

True, and please correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Shallan's mother working with the Skybreakers, and her father was the one working with the Ghostbloods?

[LewsTherinTelescope]

17 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

In my mind he was there as well, but I think I just assumed that because Nale and Kalak hang out a lot. Kalak said he was the only person alive who knows what happened to BAM in Ch. 3 of WaT.

It's mentioned in RoW 24:

Quote

"I was not alive when she was free," the spren said. "If you wish to know more, ask the Heralds. I have heard several were there for her binding. Nalan. Kelek. Find them; ask them." She walked off, more drifting than stepping, though she did have legs and feet.

Not sure how that fits with the Kalak line, maybe Nale just left before they hid the gem away? Not that interrogating the Fifth Ideal Radiant Herald leading the Skybreakers is a terribly easy option, much safer to just hunt Kalak.

[+Child of Hodor]

5 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

It's mentioned in RoW 24:

Not sure how that fits with the Kalak line, maybe Nale just left before they hid the gem away? Not that interrogating the Fifth Ideal Radiant Herald leading the Skybreakers is a terribly easy option, much safer to just hunt Kalak.

Good to know I didn't imagine it. I guess Nale took part in the strike (getting BAM in the gem) and didn't stick around for them shoving the gem into the spiritual realm. Maybe he was busy convincing the Skybreakers to only pretend to take part in the Recreance which would have begun very soon after this battle.  

[Isilel]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:47 PM, Nesh said:

That guard at the Ghostblood hideout went down way too easily.  You'd think they'd at least have a Medalion or something in case I don't know, a group of Lightweavers showed up.  It almost feels like they're letting Shallan in...

 

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But then, Ghostbloods _on Scadrial_ didn't seem to have access to medallions or allomantic grenades in TLM. Which, honestly, struck me as the height of incompetence and extremely contrived. And yes, even basic weight-storing medallions that airship crews and passengers get would have been quite useful to their infiltration team...

 

On 10/21/2024 at 6:30 PM, alder24 said:

Shallan has way too easy a time, at this point I will be massively disappointed if this doesn’t end up badly. I’m wondering if there is a Tineye among Ghostbloods - they are rare, but they should have one for just those moments. Kelsier always had Tineye guards, this is a lesson Iyatil should have learned. They would be able to hear every conversation Shallan and her team had and they could be hidden further away, the third watchpost Shallan’s squad was worried about. 

 

I very much agree - particularly since the Ghostbloods aren't averse to hemalurgy when a person "deserves" to die from their PoV or is about to expire anyway and Kelsier may have had some Inquisitor spikes to begin with. So, rarity of Tin Metalborn here or there, every significant cell of their organization should have had some to facilitate acquisition of secrets, as well as Seekers.  In fact, it would make sense to have both powers on the same person.

But then, again in TLM, nobody bothered to have such people on guard either, so I dunno.

 

On 10/21/2024 at 6:30 PM, alder24 said:

Navani’s idea is just a slavery with extra steps. Better than before, but why not work on manifesting Flamespren as heater fabrials, just like Soulcasters are created? They aren’t trapped, they do it willingly, they can be dismissed and replaced after some time. It’s a step in the wrong direction.

 

Couldn't disagree more. IMHO, this new approach closely mimics what happens in Rosharan nature with spren entering creatures gemhearts and staying there for periods of time. It has been mentioned that modern fabrials are far more efficient than the old ones, and as far as I can judge manifested spren are very much trapped and likely need intervention of the Sibling/a Bondsmith to return to their default form. 

This compromise is the future. The only thing that I find jarring is that it has only been a couple of days since Navani became aware of the problem and they already have a solution.

Speaking of which, this makes Navani significantly less safe than I initially thought. And Rushu seems like her possible replacement waiting in the wings, hm... 

[Darvys]

11 hours ago, Isilel said:

Couldn't disagree more. IMHO, this new approach closely mimics what happens in Rosharan nature with spren entering creatures gemhearts and staying there for periods of time. It has been mentioned that modern fabrials are far more efficient than the old ones, and as far as I can judge manifested spren are very much trapped and likely need intervention of the Sibling/a Bondsmith to return to their default form.

Intervention is also required to escape fabrials though.

I guess this would depend on whether or not the lesser spren can even comprehend or later remember their experience inside the fabrial, Navani presents it as them accepting to work in exchange for her rewards, when all I see is her team using the spren's nature to trap them in that cycle, but the Sibling is their designated advocate and he doesn't seem to mind so everything works out, a bit too conveniently as you said.

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Isilel said:

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But then, Ghostbloods _on Scadrial_ didn't seem to have access to medallions or allomantic grenades in TLM. Which, honestly, struck me as the height of incompetence and extremely contrived. And yes, even basic weight-storing medallions that airship crews and passengers get would have been quite useful to their infiltration team...

[...]

But then, again in TLM, nobody bothered to have such people on guard either, so I dunno.

How many Ghostbloods agents did Marasi see? Only three. Why? Because the rest were either in Elendel or on assignments in the field collecting information about the Set and observing their movement in great detail. That's hardly any proof for Ghostbloods not having access to medallions or primer cubes. Contrary, we know they do have them as Kel was using an Malwish airship when Marasi and Moonlight contacted him, which requires weight medallions and primer cubes. We also know Ghostbloods have access to a wide range of invested arts - Awakening, Forgery, Aetherbounds, Metallic Arts and possibly even Surgebinding in TLM, with a stockpile of the Dor, aluminum and vials of metal ready for action. If they had so many things in one small city on Scadrial, I fully expect the Rosharan cell to also have access to a wide variety of invested arts, especially Metallic Arts. TLM ch 40:

Quote

“Damn,” Kelsier said. “I’m twelve hours away, moving quickly via airship.”
[...]

"Codenames, how many full Ghostblood agents do we have in Bilming?”
“Um…” Codenames said. “Only us three. Everyone else is in Elendel or on assignment elsewhere in the field.”
“How quickly can we get the Elendel agents to Bilming?” Kelsier asked.
“Not quickly enough,” Moonlight said. “They’re all embedded, so we’d have to use dead drops. We could have them roused by early evening, maybe late afternoon, but they would still be several hours away in Elendel.”
[...]
“Codenames, you take Dae-oh and see to it. I doubt the field team needs a philologist for this mission. Also alert our members around the Basin."
[...]
Marasi decided to stick with Moonlight, who rushed to a different room—which required opening another mystical lock. Inside was an armory that would have made Ranette delirious with glee. Guns on the walls, vials of metals in racks, glass knives and dueling canes. A large chain-fed machine gun and some explosives.

 

14 hours ago, Isilel said:

Couldn't disagree more. IMHO, this new approach closely mimics what happens in Rosharan nature with spren entering creatures gemhearts and staying there for periods of time. It has been mentioned that modern fabrials are far more efficient than the old ones, and as far as I can judge manifested spren are very much trapped and likely need intervention of the Sibling/a Bondsmith to return to their default form. 

This compromise is the future. The only thing that I find jarring is that it has only been a couple of days since Navani became aware of the problem and they already have a solution.

But in nature this is happening without the need to imprison spren drugged by music - Lesser Spren willingly bond with animals and Singers. Yes, this is a good start to resolve problems between Navani and the Sibling, to find a compromise, but from the Sibling's perspective, who did appreciate Navani and her scientists efforts, this still is imprisonment of spren. They said "All spren being free would be preferable" and the only way to achieve this (without destroying all of the fabrial technology) is to create fabrials by manifesting spren. The Sibling doesn't have any problem with this, the Tower is quite literally filled with those ancient fabrials. The difference is that fabrials are made by spren who willingly manifested as a device - no imprisonment is happening. 

Of course, with the recent Corruption of the Oathgate spren, it's clear that it's best not to force spren to be manifested as fabrials forever, but the solution to this is the same one as created by Navani - from time to time just replace them with new ones, so the fabrial spren could be free again.

And while the ancient fabrials weren't as advanced as modern ones, I don't see any problem with this. A Shardblade and a Shardplate will create any metallic shape imagined by their knight, Yumi can manifest Hijo into any tool she can imagine - it's just the matter of proper visualization. I see no reason why Lesser Spren can't manifest as the very same fabrials used today on Roshar, if it's properly explained to them. You can always add an advanced wire cage, if for some reason they can't create it (aluminum). And to be fair, a giant plug in a gemstone seems like a pretty big imperfection to me - this should increase the rate of Stormlight leakage. 

It was such a big deal, when Navani finally discovered the secret of ancient fabrials, this also in my opinion should solve all problems between her and the Sibling and for me it's weird that she didn't go in this direction instantly. However, I don't believe what Navani and Rushu did is the full solution to their dispute with the Sibling - just wait till they try to make a conjoined Fabrial by ripping a spren in half. What's Navani's solution to this? She made a step towards finding a compromise, but it's not solved yet.

And I doubt Bondsmith is needed to manifest spren as fabrials - Fused made a fabrial and they don't have any Bondsmith.