Wind and Truth: Chapters 1 & 2

[Argent he/him]

Discussion/reaction thread for chapters 1 and 2. You can find this week's chapters here: https://reactormag.com/read-wind-and-truth-by-brandon-sanderson-chapters-1-and-2/

[+robardin he/him]

So, Kaladin can Surgebind using Towerlight, eh? He mentions how Navani's new light was "constantly replenished" in Urithiru, so that he just hovers around all the time without worrying about draining spheres of Stormlight, and that his Lashings lasted seemingly indefinitely. Is that because he Invested it with Towerlight in the tower itself?

And holding Towerlight feels different from Stormlight, it doesn't impart an "urgency to act" but rather has a "calming" feeling.

I wonder if Lift can use it, too, with her twiddle to use Lifelight (which she produces metabolically from eating food), since Towerlight is a fusion of it and Stormlight?

And if some difference between Towerlight and Stormlight is why Vyre being blinded by it by Navani isn't something he could heal from with Stormlight?

[Wadders]

I think it would make sense for lift to use it as well.

Kaladin mentions the tower itself is infused, maybe being within the tower is enough to infuse gems and radiants. I don't think that it has mentioned that Kaladin had to actively try to breathe in stormlight whilst in the highstorms so potentially similar.

With regard to Moash I wonder if the damage was caused by the combination of his connection to odium being forcibly severed by the anti-tone and then being affected by towerlight. The damage has left him still able to form bonds but not to the same extent as before. Reminds me of the deadeyes a bit.

As a side note, will the radiants be able to use warlight? I imagine Venli or Renarin and Rlain would be the most likely to be able to.

[TheOtherDave]

I’m mostly wondering which bondsmith the mysterious voice is referring to. I mean, it’s pretty obvious which one Kal thinks it means, but that doesn’t make him right.

Edited August 5, 2024 by TheOtherDave

[Isilel]

The epigraphs - chapter 1 could be Shallan, Szeth or Kaladin. Chapter 2 is Kaladin, IMHO.

 

The voice on the winds talking to Kaladin is the same entity as the Stormfaker, right? They go from telling "You are not the one I need" to Gavilar to "You are what I need" to Kaladin. I am in the camp of this being Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow. It is odd that the voice insinuates that it is in Shinovar, but maybe it just needs Kaladin to be there.

 

I have long thought that Kaladin will either Ascend or become a Bondsmith at the end of book 5 and the former seems ever more likely. Yes, his farewell to his family seems pretty final. I also don't like the romancy vibes between him and Syl... but they also look a lot like death flags for her. She doesn't have to die for him to do either of these things, but after these couple of chapters it feels likely to me that she will.

 

Something occured to me regarding Vasher -

Spoiler

did Gavilar know that he was Zahel? After all, unlike Vivenna, he can completely change his appearance.

 

I am going on a record here that I deeply dislike the Chana Davar theory, not the least because it would feel incredibly contrived if King Gavilar and Lady Davar had died on the same day and no family member ever commented on it. I mean, his death was a huge event of great importance to the Vorin area of Roshar and it would have been quite a coincidence. Besides, there is zero follow-through on "they mustn't see, they mustn't know" as to our knowledge Chana didn't do anything of note after the end of WoK and until now.

 

So, my theory a bit out of the left field is - the Stormfather's "no Herald has died and gone to Braize since" (paraphrasing) is true "from a certain point of view". Due to how the Oathpact was changed so that Taln could maintain it alone and weakened for all the others, the Herald who died didn't go all the way to Braize, but saw whatever shouldn't be seen. And that Herald was Ishar, not Chana. And it resulted in him proclaiming himself a god-king, which, IIRC was a relatively recent development.

Finally, Shallan's scene with Testament was touching, but I am a bit leery of "whatever it takes".

 

[GudThymes he/him]

4 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Something occured to me regarding Vasher -

  Hide contents

did Gavilar know that he was Zahel? After all, unlike Vivenna, he can completely change his appearance.

Yes and no, in the prologue Gavilar refers to him as: 

Spoiler

the secret scholar he kept in reserve. A master of all things scientific. A man who was neither Ghostblood nor Son of Honor.

 

A man from another world.

What extent of his history Gavilar knows is up for debate, but definitely enough to utilize his skills.

I loved the depiction of depression on a good day. I am concerned for Kaladin and what this book is going to do to him.

[teknopathetic he/him]

I don’t know why, but the epigraph reminded me of Lirin. Maybe the Lirin is future Honor is correct. 
 

As for the voice, my mind jumped to it being Ba Ado Mishram 

Edited August 6, 2024 by teknopathetic

[GriffinMaze]

There is some debate on reddit about who the author of "Knights of Wind and Truth" is. 

We have been told for years that book 5 is Szeth's book. He is clearly the author is he not? 

[GudThymes he/him]

1 hour ago, GriffinMaze said:

There is some debate on reddit about who the author of "Knights of Wind and Truth" is. 

We have been told for years that book 5 is Szeth's book. He is clearly the author is he not? 

Not necessarily. Both Way of kings and Words of radiance in world were written prior to our main characters being alive. Yes the most recent two books were written contemporaneously but that doesn't mean that this one is.

With that said I do think that Szeth is at least a coauthor of this book given the excerpts.

[+robardin he/him]

3 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Not necessarily. Both Way of kings and Words of radiance in world were written prior to our main characters being alive. Yes the most recent two books were written contemporaneously but that doesn't mean that this one is.

With that said I do think that Szeth is at least a coauthor of this book given the excerpts.

I'm hoping for a Mistborn level of "OMG" when we realize who the writer of the epigraphs in "Wind and Truth" are, especially since we can already see that's the in-world name for something written down on pages as well.

Like, what if it turns out to be Elhokar's diary or something? LOL

[Eluvianii he/him]

On 8/5/2024 at 3:32 PM, Isilel said:

 

I have long thought that Kaladin will either Ascend or become a Bondsmith at the end of book 5 and the former seems ever more likely. Yes, his farewell to his family seems pretty final. I also don't like the romancy vibes between him and Syl... but they also look a lot like death flags for her. She doesn't have to die for him to do either of these things, but after these couple of chapters it feels likely to me that she will.

Can't say if the goodbye to his parents was final or not, but it felt more like a milestone to me. I think this is the first time Kal leaves home in such positive terms. Without the uncertainty of leaving for war (there is uncertainty here, but not on the same level. He's not leaving to fight (as far as he or we know anyway)), without the disapproval from his father, without it feeling like a sacrifice. He's leaving home for good reasons, and his family is cheering for him and waiting for his return. I'm trying to convince myself that Brandon just wanted to showcase that.

Plus come on, stop beating Kal down each time he gets up. At this point it's become less "Depression has bad days and good days" and more "Depression would have good days if people let this guy get a rest". What would the lesson even be if they torture him even more now? That you have to get up even if life seems hopeless? He learnt that last book and it was very painful. Just let him rest, I can't believe we're actually expecting the book to beat him down again. 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

28 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

He learnt that last book and it was very painful. Just let him rest, I can't believe we're actually expecting the book to beat him down again. 

Full Cosmere Spoilers:

Spoiler

Brandon is a master of the bittersweet ending. Look at the end of both Mistborn eras. We lose Vin, Elend, and a very large number of non charactered Scadrians. Era 2 we lose Wayne. I don't see Stormlight being any different - especially since this will not be a full resolution. It breaks my heart but I dont think Kaladin gets a happy ending. 

 

[Eluvianii he/him]

15 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Full Cosmere Spoilers:

  Hide contents

Brandon is a master of the bittersweet ending. Look at the end of both Mistborn eras. We lose Vin, Elend, and a very large number of non charactered Scadrians. Era 2 we lose Wayne. I don't see Stormlight being any different - especially since this will not be a full resolution. It breaks my heart but I dont think Kaladin gets a happy ending. 

 

Spoiler

Idk, I consider Era 1 to have a complete happy ending. We lose Vin and Elend but they weren't tragic deaths. At all. They both reached a satisfying resolution and their deaths were the bow tying their character arcs. Beautiful. 

Kal is almost there. The milestone he achieved in RoW has him so close to having his stuff figured out. He has learned that his pain so far has a meaning, and that it isn't eternal. At this point you can't just kill his loved ones off, say he was forever sad, and call it a day. Sure, realistically it's a possibility, but narratively it would be meaningless. 

I'm not saying he should just retire and be happy and uninvolved for the rest of the series, that wouldn't make sense either. But his story so far has been a predictable see saw where he rises from a struggle, only to immediately suffer an even greater fall, rinse and repeat. That was repetitive and painful, but it had a meaning. We saw that meaning when he swore the 4th ideal. All 4 books led to that. 

Now that we're past that point, I think we are (or should be) in completely new territory for the first time, whatever is in store for him should be different in some way. It surely won't be all happiness from here on out, but I think repeating the same pattern would be pointless. 

 

[alder24]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Full Cosmere Spoilers:

  Hide contents

Brandon is a master of the bittersweet ending. Look at the end of both Mistborn eras. We lose Vin, Elend, and a very large number of non charactered Scadrians. Era 2 we lose Wayne. I don't see Stormlight being any different - especially since this will not be a full resolution. It breaks my heart but I dont think Kaladin gets a happy ending. 

 

I'm more hopeful than you in Kaladin's case. Yes, I have no doubts that Brandon can deliver us a hard blow, which will feel satisfying, but looking at Kaladin's character arc death would be a disservice. From the very first chapter Kaladin is tormented by the survivor's guilt. He took a huge step in the right direction when he swore the 4th Ideal, but his journey isn't over. To complete his arc he needs to be there for himself - he has to live. I don't expect it to end up on a happy note either, rather on a hopeful one. He will struggle, there will be pain, but there will be better days in his life and those days are worth living for. In the end, I expect him to be fine, not happy, just fine.

[Master Silver]

I have a theory on why Tanavast has been mostly absent. The honor of men was mostly dead, thus Honor was mostly dead. Tanavast may have bound himself in some way to the honor of men, ensuring that at least most of them would not be able to become Voidbringers. But as men continued to get worse it was like when Radiants break their oaths. But since Kaladin, Adolin, and Leshwa were awesome, we see a huge jump in honor lvls on Roshar allowing the cognitive shadow Tanavast to manifest again. It also helps that Rayes is dead. 

 

Sidenote, how long do you think a Radiant could last in the cognitive realm before fading? If it is 10 days.... Kal could use a good sergeant. 

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Sidenote, how long do you think a Radiant could last in the cognitive realm before fading? If it is 10 days.... Kal could use a good sergeant. 

Not long, just minutes. Eshonai experienced it (before she was invested more by the Stormfather as he took her to ride his Highstorm). RoW ch 117:

Quote

What is this? Eshonai thought.
YOU WERE HIGHLY INVESTED WHEN YOU DIED, a voice said. It rumbled with the sound of a thousand storms, echoing through her. SO YOU PERSIST. FOR A SHORT TIME.
Invested? Eshonai thought.
YOU WERE RADIANT WHEN YOU DIED. YOU COULDN’T SAY THE WORDS, UNDER THE WATER, BUT I ACCEPTED THEM ANYWAY. HOW DO YOU THINK YOU SURVIVED THAT LONG WITHOUT BREATHING?
She floated. So … this is my soul?
SOME WOULD CALL IT THAT, said the Rider of Storms. SOME WOULD SAY IT IS A SPREN FORMED BY THE POWER YOU LEFT, IMPRINTED WITH YOUR MEMORIES. EITHER WAY, THIS IS THE END. YOU WILL PASS INTO ETERNITY SOON, AND EVEN I CANNOT SEE WHAT IS BEYOND.
How long? Eshonai asked.
MINUTES. NOT HOURS.

 

[Ashbringer he/him]

Minor Mistborn Era 1 spoilers:

Spoiler

Shardblade attacks are soul-severing / spirit-web severing. I don't think people killed by a Shardblade are going to stick around very long even relative to a normal death, same as Hemalurgy victims. So pretty sure Teft is dead-dead.

 

On 8/5/2024 at 2:32 PM, Isilel said:

it would feel incredibly contrived if King Gavilar and Lady Davar had died on the same day and no family member ever commented on it. I mean, his death was a huge event of great importance to the Vorin area of Roshar and it would have been quite a coincidence. Besides, there is zero follow-through on "they mustn't see, they mustn't know" as to our knowledge Chana didn't do anything of note after the end of WoK and until now.

Do we think that "they mustn't see" is in reference to the dying Herald? Or to Roshar as a whole?

I think the simplest example is that it's in reference to the Everstorm, which could have brought the whole Oathpact crashing down on its own, but I'm not sure exactly why the Heralds shouldn't see it. 

 

Also the Davars are very deeply tied to the Ghostbloods, even back then. And Thaidakar was clearly planning something involving Gavilar, even if the Parshendi and Szeth beat him to the punch, and Axindweth was active in Kholinar at that time. So I don't think it's that outlandish to be on the same day. Depends what Lady Davar was thinking, honestly. We still don't know that.

[coolsnow7]

I don’t like this “Kaladin talking to the wind” business so far. There are more than enough mysterious beings communicating with people on Roshar already, we really don’t need another. In fact it’s already too reminiscent of the Sibling doing similar business last time. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

25 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

I don’t like this “Kaladin talking to the wind” business so far. There are more than enough mysterious beings communicating with people on Roshar already, we really don’t need another. In fact it’s already too reminiscent of the Sibling doing similar business last time. 

Eh, it is what it is. A very common trend that has been throughout the books. Like Syl and Pattern in TWoK, then Timbre and the Stormfather in WoR, then Odium and Sja-Anat in Oathbringer. 

[+robardin he/him]

7 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Eh, it is what it is. A very common trend that has been throughout the books. Like Syl and Pattern in TWoK, then Timbre and the Stormfather in WoR, then Odium and Sja-Anat in Oathbringer. 

Yeah, and it's fun to consider who/what this being could be.

It says it is sorry to "ask more" of Kaladin - so it's relied on Kal already? And it's something "on the wind" that Syl can sort of sense but not hear.

The scenes from TWoK and WoR where latent or at best, Second Ideal Kaladin felt like he could dodge two Shardblades at once even with his eyes closed - that wasn't an aspect of being a Windrunner, and was something he felt was "windy", so was that whatever this is?

We've been told that there is something about Kaladin that makes the Stormfather address him as "Child of Tanavast" versus "Child of Honor" as he addresses other nascent or actual Surgebinders... Is this it?

Quote

Winds Alight (paraphrased)

In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there is.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

 

[Master Silver]

22 hours ago, robardin said:

Yeah, and it's fun to consider who/what this being could be.

It says it is sorry to "ask more" of Kaladin - so it's relied on Kal already? And it's something "on the wind" that Syl can sort of sense but not hear.

The scenes from TWoK and WoR where latent or at best, Second Ideal Kaladin felt like he could dodge two Shardblades at once even with his eyes closed - that wasn't an aspect of being a Windrunner, and was something he felt was "windy", so was that whatever this is?

We've been told that there is something about Kaladin that makes the Stormfather address him as "Child of Tanavast" versus "Child of Honor" as he addresses other nascent or actual Surgebinders... Is this it?

 

I really dislike the idea of Hesina (Kaladin's mom) having had an affair with Tanavast. I think if it was possible for Lerin to somehow be Tanavast, but he somehow separated from his cognitive shadow. A cognitive shadow is essential a copy of the mind and spirit web. So that could be an option maybe, if Tanavast laid down the power so he seemed to die and also devested himself of his memories to live a normal human life. There is also the chance that when Honor was shattered a small part of it latched onto Kaladin.

[+Crossen]

Does anyone think that the mysterious voice is one of the Unmade, most likely Dai-gonarthis? This is probably one of the voices that has made the Heralds go mad, along with Dalinar and Szeth. Probably also a candidate for the Stormfaker.

Note that Dai-gonarthis was said to be involved in the scouring of Aimia, which could put them close to Shinovar. Could this also be the blue/black wind/smoke in the SA5 concept art?

To me their objective could be tricking someone into being Odium's champion (Szeth most likely).

Here is an excerpt from Oathbringer, Chapter 88 that may be relevant:

Quote

Dalinar  took  a  chug,  then  handed  the  bottle  back  to  Ahu.  “How  are  the voices?”
“Soft, today. They chant about ripping me apart. Eating my flesh. Drinking my blood.”
“Pleasant.”
“Hee hee.” Ahu snuggled back against the branches of the hedge-wall, as they were soft silk. “Nice. Not bad at all, little child. What of your noises?”
In reply, Dalinar reached out his hand. Ahu gave him the bottle. Dalinar drank, welcoming the fuzzing of mind that would quiet the weeping.“Aven begah,” Ahu said. “It’s a fine night for my torment, and no telling the skies to be still. Where is my soul, and who is this in my face?”
“You’re a strange little man, Ahu.”
Ahu cackled his response and waved for the wine. After a drink, he returned it to Dalinar, who wiped off the beggar’s spittle with his shirt. Storm Gavilar for pushing him to this. “I like you,” Ahu said to Dalinar. “I like the pain in your eyes. Friendly pain. Companionable pain.”
“Thanks.”
“Which one got to you, little child?” Ahu asked. “The Black Fisher? The Spawning Mother, the Faceless? Moelach is close. I can hear his wheezing, his scratching, his scraping at time like a rat breaking through walls.”
“I have no idea what you’re talking about.”
“Madness,” Ahu said, then giggled. “I used to think it wasn’t my fault. But you know, we can’t escape what we did? We let them in. We attracted them befriended them, took them out to dance and courted them. It is our fault. You open yourself to it, and you pay the price. They ripped my brain out and made it dance! I watched.”
Dalinar paused, the bottle halfway to his lips. Then he held it out to Ahu “Drink this. You need it.” Ahu obliged.

 

[teknopathetic he/him]

1 hour ago, Crossen said:

Does anyone think that the mysterious voice is one of the Unmade, most likely Dai-gonarthis? This is probably one of the voices that has made the Heralds go mad, along with Dalinar and Szeth. Probably also a candidate for the Stormfaker.

An unmade would be a great twist, but one would think the Tower would keep those influences to a minimum. The voice seems to be stronger than ever for some reason almost as if the tower has amplified it. 

[+Crossen]

Random thought, but is it possible that Dai-Gonarthis is not actually an Unmade (they could possibly be one of the "traitor" sleepless that went on the betray Aimia I think), and we don't know who the final Unmade truly is? Hessi's Mythica really casts some doubt on Dai-Gonarthis being the 9th. Also, as it currently stands there are 15 sub-names for the Unmade (Ba-Ado-Mishram = 3, Dai-Gonarthis = 2, etc.), where I think 16 would be more appropriate. Rereading the epigraph makes me think that possibly a sleepless is involved.

 

Quote

I should have known I was being watched. All my life, the signs were there.

 

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Given what we're seeing in these chapters I've been trying to pay attention in my re-listen of tWoK (in the run up to KoWT release) to other mentions of the wind/Wind

Chapter 43: The Wretch

Quote

A cold wind blew through the corridor of stone, washing over him, bringing crisp, fresh scents and blowing away the stink of rotting corpses.

Nobody cared for the bridgemen. Nobody cared for those at the bottom with the darkest eyes. And yet, that wind seemed to whisper to him over and over. Life before death. Life before death. Live before you die.

*bold words mine, other emphasis already in the text

The Ch 3 Epigraph says

Spoiler

that the wind regained her voice after the Change in Odium's Vessel

But perhaps here we're just seeing it without full voice but urging as best it could...?