Mid-Range Game 67: 'Twas the Night Before SA5

[Kasimir he/him]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I think my v!Neil read comes more from the thought that if you've just migrated and gotten elim, do you not sit back a little at least? Even if your team gave you the green light, I feel like you'd be more anxious about being visible. Also Neil has felt like a helpful contributor so I trust him

Not reaction test related

Also, I'm generally of the view your assumptions are from a galaxy far far away here. They model a psychology I find pretty alien. I don't think that's AI, but I think that's throwing me for a loop when looking at your own analysis.

[Ookla de los Cuervos he/him]

I think i would need this cycle and the next to start getting something.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I'm sort of confused what motivated...this. Because I don't think I was under serious pressure or threat vote-wise, and the last time I died to anything not a NK was probably in 2018 or so. Though I guess the other site's probably trying to break that, woohoo.

I was reading through quickly and thought I saw you responding to suspicion.

 

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

With regard to 'sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on' - does this influence your assessment of the likelihood of E!Archer here?

It would for some folks, but the ultimate nature of the play is to make people feel awkward about leaving a vote on you, and Archer definitely understands that. Villagers have been pulling this kind of thing frequently enough that I think it’s inevitable an elim does it just for the cred, and a D1 SK claim fits right with that for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

[Kasimir he/him]

Oh yeah. Current reads.

Tired so no Digimon today. If I'm still around next cycle, I'll add some.

Light V: Archer with asterisk.

- There's a defensive tic E!Archer has in certain situations when he's being gambity and challenged on it that I kind of wanna hang onto for longer term. I was thinking to see if it triggered. It didn't. Also good vibes off some posts. Can point to them eventually, I sort of saw them when doing backreading for the longpost but want to get it done.

Null+: Wiz, Neil

-Meta reasons for Wiz but don't feel strongly confident.
-Ok with lean on Neil for now but strongly believe player of calibre can easily simulate regardless of alignment. Wait and see I guess.

Null: Araris, Aeo, Aman, Ash, Coffee, Raven, Ravenclaw

-Ash and Coffee clear lurkers. No disagreement about more pressure, lurking more egregious with Coffee than Ash.
-Raven feels kinda disengaged relative to his previous three games ngl but IDK I feel confident enough on a read.
-Re-revised Ravenclaw downwards because I'm struggling to understand Ravenclaw's mindset - not as confident of V lean anymore. Needs re-read.
-I will never not want Araris to be V and I will never agree to C1 Araris and I'm just going to have to deal with that.
-Honestly I'm getting some E stuff off Aman and I don't know how I feel about that. He's chunked into nulls because I do appreciate his thread confidence, but Aman's always good at passing the vibe check. I exed V!Aman close enough the last time and the idea of going through that again is no bueno. I don't really know why I signed up for this game. I thought I was recovered enough from all the breakdowns and paralysis but here I go again with my brain one white hot bar of NOPE at the idea of getting it wrong. I'm going to take my own advice to Aeo and disengage or try to get sleep.
-If I don't mention you explicitly, you're in here.

Null-: JNV, Devo

-For reasons already listed, mostly.

P.S.

Explicitly prefer if people don't sheep me because I'll be really upset with myself if JNV is V and I misread them. I just can't really let go of the things that are bugging me but it's also uncomfortable to me for people to be regarding it as much of a case when I'm struggling to articulate, to a level I feel personally satisfied by, why I can't seem to stop staring at JNV, contra my usual 'stahp JNV is Village get off' swatting at people.

It's doubly annoying because some of the content I want to cross-reference as comparators are in PMs which were deleted so that's real helpful, great work Kas. Gonna have to dig a bit more.

[Ookla de los Cuervos he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Oh yeah. Current reads.

Tired so no Digimon today. If I'm still around next cycle, I'll add some.

Light V: Archer with asterisk.

- There's a defensive tic E!Archer has in certain situations when he's being gambity and challenged on it that I kind of wanna hang onto for longer term. I was thinking to see if it triggered. It didn't. Also good vibes off some posts. Can point to them eventually, I sort of saw them when doing backreading for the longpost but want to get it done.

Null+: Wiz, Neil

-Meta reasons for Wiz but don't feel strongly confident.
-Ok with lean on Neil for now but strongly believe player of calibre can easily simulate regardless of alignment. Wait and see I guess.

Null: Araris, Aeo, Aman, Ash, Coffee, Raven, Ravenclaw

-Ash and Coffee clear lurkers. No disagreement about more pressure, lurking more egregious with Coffee than Ash.
-Raven feels kinda disengaged relative to his previous three games ngl but IDK I feel confident enough on a read.
-Re-revised Ravenclaw downwards because I'm struggling to understand Ravenclaw's mindset - not as confident of V lean anymore. Needs re-read.
-I will never not want Araris to be V and I will never agree to C1 Araris and I'm just going to have to deal with that.
-Honestly I'm getting some E stuff off Aman and I don't know how I feel about that. He's chunked into nulls because I do appreciate his thread confidence, but Aman's always good at passing the vibe check. I exed V!Aman close enough the last time and the idea of going through that again is no bueno. I don't really know why I signed up for this game. I thought I was recovered enough from all the breakdowns and paralysis but here I go again with my brain one white hot bar of NOPE at the idea of getting it wrong. I'm going to take my own advice to Aeo and disengage or try to get sleep.
-If I don't mention you explicitly, you're in here.

Null-: JNV, Devo

-For reasons already listed, mostly.

P.S.

Explicitly prefer if people don't sheep me because I'll be really upset with myself if JNV is V and I misread them. I just can't really let go of the things that are bugging me but it's also uncomfortable to me for people to be regarding it as much of a case when I'm struggling to articulate, to a level I feel personally satisfied by, why I can't seem to stop staring at JNV, contra my usual 'stahp JNV is Village get off' swatting at people.

It's doubly annoying because some of the content I want to cross-reference as comparators are in PMs which were deleted so that's real helpful, great work Kas. Gonna have to dig a bit more.

Ive got finals coming up. i would be more engaged if i could.

[Cash67]

Just woke up today after running a DND one shot last night, so that’s why I haven’t responded! Scanned everything and here’s my thoughts.
 

I like @Kasimir’s thinking, but then again, who doesn’t… So that doesn’t really give us a read on him.

As a lowly inexperienced player, @Ookla the Resolute seems to be engaged a little too frantically.

Beyond that, I don’t have much.

Resolute

 

 

[Archer he/him]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Why the switch to me?

Right now I'm down to you, Bald, and Aman(?) as my suspect list. (Opinion on Araris depends on C2 performance.) I don't really see why I should trust you. And getting rid of you solves my two ravens issue. 

Side note-Neil ISO might undermine my initial read of them being bold. Willing to reconsider since they said they'd sit back. 

11 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Not reaction test related

Also, I'm generally of the view your assumptions are from a galaxy far far away here. They model a psychology I find pretty alien. I don't think that's AI, but I think that's throwing me for a loop when looking at your own analysis.

I may not be a psychology expert, but my trick of doing the job badly so you feel compelled to correct it has worked pretty well for me so far :P. 

Quote

  On 12/12/2023 at 2:09 AM, Kasimir said:

Tell me about it...I just realised your Raven/Aeo not E/E read was referring to Wiz and Aeo >> (I'd concur with it.)

Yeah agreed. We've established where the SK is wrt Village wincon so IMO needn't do too much work for them right now. Probably worth hanging on to if the situation gets more desperate but that's a later problem.

I mean, if you want to, you want to, right? I feel like my whole point of engaging you and arguing it's within Archer's range is...

IDK how to put it. I guess I'd put it like this: I can see the intuitive pull of the V read and I understand why you're making it. I probably would too but for reasons I'm not mentioning, and the fact that I just got off a LG with Archer pulling a WGG, so am freshly-reminded he has a very high risk appetite and the error-bars for a risk/attitude read tend to be bigger for Archer.

I don't think the game hangs on you reading Archer right C1 and it'd be kinda weird if it did. I guess my tldr; is if you feel strongly enough about it, it's probably worth listening to/holding your view because a bunch of people disagreeing is what makes the Village work. I bring it up because I think it's just worth putting it out there that this in particular is worth revising if you get other evidence going forward in future cycles because big error-bar.

If I talk about it, someone will probably snipe me 

Edited to add:

Neil, what's the basis for your Aman read?

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xD yeah

ill hold off on my thoughts for a biiiit yeah

i mean. im gonna state that i fully dont know anypony here's meta but in general im decent at reading into those sorts of claims? dgmw ive met my fair share of people who fly with audacity there but meh- i ahve a bit more  though, but lemme get to that later in this message ^^ (

and xD gl then king

 

actually. good point. i was kinda throwing that name out bc i remembered them doing *something* notably when i posted that, but then realized there wasnt much from him. i think i just remembered him being nice whoops

 

  On 12/12/2023 at 10:39 AM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

That confused me for a while too, but I think it's based on them hard-assuming that my convention game wincon is to claim serial killer. I think it's still a stretch to assign a read based on that, but it's also a bad assumption to make and I think villagers are more prone to those. 

Until proven wrong, I'm using this as your village tell

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ravens/archer not e/e expz

  On 12/12/2023 at 10:50 AM, Kasimir said:

This is weird to me. I'd expect an Elim to be more confident about making a bad assumption because it's easier to just backmask their way to the right conclusion.

Edited to add:

That is, specifically, I think the degree of confidence in your being a Villager is too damned high, and more suggestive of TMI.

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  On 12/12/2023 at 11:15 AM, Kasimir said:

It wasn't, actually, but you're free to think what you want.

-

Right, I don't really believe too much is gained by waiting at this point. 

@neil the beguiled - As promised: my additional thoughts were that I considered it was quite likely a reaction test, but struggled to determine if the POV was a Villager seeking Elims on the basis of assumptions about Elim behaviour, or an Elim seeking to flush out the SK, since Elims really gain from us focusing on the SK as compared to Elim hunting. Also targeting possibilities there since the Elims really don't want to waste their kill on the SK, and it helps them work out who the Lurcher might be protecting.

Some of this was based on my initial assumptions on the SK's wincon and becomes a bit different in the current landscape but also depends on Archer's own assumptions of the SK. I didn't feel the point in highlighting it or being too on the nose about it because Archer's yelled at me enough times about letting him do him without getting in his way, and I've just come off a game where a player kept getting between me and the player I was trying to apply pressure to, so I just could not get a decent reaction/response at all.

Having been annoyed by it, it didn't feel right to do it to Archer.

Do I V!read Archer? Well, it depends on what he does with this. I can see a case for V!Archer, I'm just not willing to commit to it without seeing what he's going to do with the results. Part of why I questioned his Devo read and his asking Devo but not you - it's clear Archer is asking pretty much everyone who had a concrete reaction. (It's true he doesn't ask Araris, either, but Araris is gonna Araris.)

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ah yeah that makes a lot of sense. i'd generally feel more swayed to see reaction testing as v indicative rather than anything else, but the elims needing to weed out the sk makes that harder to gauge as well (er, i suppose sk could also want reactions but. what a sk wants reactions for is a lot more nuanced than an e or a t.

my gripe with this, and thus my earlier squinting, is i read your prior comments as a soft defense of archer, and a lack of a read on such a contriversial member read moreso partnered, but the other quoted post makes me think this is less likely. but i didnt want to air such a gripe so early as it was mentioned you're a likely n1 kill... lol.

 

  On 12/12/2023 at 11:21 AM, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

Yes. I can see how that would be very confusing considering how I believe both. If you are a Serial Killer, yes you are less important to kill than the elims, but we should still exe you sooner rather than later. And if you aren't--which is quite likely--than your motive is...interesting. It definitely changes things to learn that you had claimed SK many times before in games like this one, but I'm still not certain. Devo brings up an interesting point in saying that the convention game could be involved, I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. And it could have been trying to find our reactions, but I never seem to really trust those.

So basically I don't have many opinions thus far.

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i dont like the hedge in this fwiw. i can get not trusting a persons reasoning for a claimed reaction test, but you can also reap the rewards of said reaction test. consider a t/sk!archer as opposed to a e!archer world. if you assume archer is uninformed, then you should be looking for the informed in response to his reaction test, or whos trying to push sus onto him. if you think archer is informed, who is defending him? i think theres a lot you can get out of things like this even if you dont know what alignment archer is by the responses to him. 

but also with devo, youre unsure on, but you just kinda parse it off as "interesting" which is baffling to just... comment on and disregard?

 

  On 12/12/2023 at 11:52 AM, Ookla the Raveness said:

It'll be back to normal in like a week 

Do we know if survivals are announced?

oh good,. its kinda confusing here ^^

  On 12/12/2023 at 12:23 PM, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I didn’t get a SK counter-claim, but I think this has run its course. Obviously it was a lie (sorry, TKN. Should have made me hold an iron horseshoe). Reaction recap, loosely ordered from n>v>e!:

-Ashbringer: no comment.

-JNV: no comment.

-Raveness: no comment.

I couldn’t have made my claim more unmissable, but Ash and JNV fit the profile of people who did. Curious why Raveness didn’t comment on it. E!me would feel compelled to respond to the test, even knowing it was a test, so my instinctive read for ignoring it is village.

-Araris: stab votes me for claiming SK.

-Kas: calls it a NAI reaction test

These reactions are within their metas. It was very funny watching Kas try not to ruin the test but then commenting on it anyway. Araris’ is less organic, but it’s NAI for him.

-Neil: village read for “joking”.

The innocent new guy play is to believe the SK claim, not disbelieve it and ascribe a village read for it. Caveated by them being known by fellow players. 

-Ookla the Past Participle: Playing both sides, I’m either neutral or I’m evil.

Technically, this is the most scummy response. But it also reads as genuinely indecisive, and that overrides my suspicion.

-Devo: village read based on assumed fakeclaim because of convention game

They pinged my gut last night. I had to read between the lines to figure out what Devo was thinking. But I’ve decided that that’s a villagey look for them because e!they is intentional enough with their wording to avoid misunderstandings. An unforced error from e!they would be surprising, as would a weird take on a straightforward test.

-Ookla the Bald: believes neutral claim

Really?

-Ookla the Resolute: Doesn’t believe it for a second. You can tell because they ask Raveness what their neutral tell is, Raveness if they’re the SK.

My working theory was they’re the real SK (chaos = neutral). Refusal to engage with and believe my claim followed by obsession with the topic points that way. That theory can hold the vote on me as being neutral pettiness (if you’re going to vote someone, vote the guy claiming your job). Otherwise it’s a weird (opportunistic) turn that I'm inclined to suspect. 

 

My theorized elim reaction was that they wouldn’t 1/ believe my claim AND 2/ advocate for my death. No sense killing off your first-half ally. I don’t think enough people took me seriously for that to come into play. If I were to call people out for being cautious, Kas, Devo, and the no comments tripped that wire.

Ookla the Bald

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im only known by/played with stick on this site fwiw; aeoryi i saw inned on a game im helping host but otherwise have no experience with ^^

anyway;

why do you think that an v!player would be less likely to respond? would you not assume an e!player would rather avoid a rt? though ig this gets to wifom territory now. you say that e!you would respond to a test like this, which brings up 2 questions 1. do you think that your playstyle is similar/common to the general playstyle of this site? 2. how would you describe e!you to react to this, assuming someone else posted the exact reaction test there?

for araris/kas: wdym in their metas? like just in general you think their reactions are NAI?

for me: xD, its easy to capitalize on as wolf when someone pulls this stuff in maf gg pubs; i kinda generalized that this website is a bit more methodical in how yall do things here. gth id say ppl who *would* call for your death are more likely to be elimers, but the fact you have a meta of doing this kinda muddies those waters.

for past participle/ravenclaw: can you detail more how their indecisiveness makes your read more neutral here, especially while calling out kas/devo for their caution? i dislike their response the most tbqh

for devo: this i understand most actually- i think as v! youd be more compelled to find an AI reasoning than convention reasoning.

for bald: can you explain more on this, given youve put the least thought here for the bald and still placed your vote there?

aeoryi: im ngl i kinda buy your reasoning wrt a sk!aeoryi, esp with the comments to raveness... otherwise im kinda shrug though, i dont rlly wanna vote aeoryi d1 for kinda nebulous reasons. which actually.

Speaking of jobs done poorly, speed run of Neil responses:

When I see a reaction test, I feel obliged to respond because I'm a control freak as an elim. I'm projecting. No, my playstyle isn't generalizable. E!me commits to one stark view of the rt, see previous LG for an example of Drake calling me out for that. 

Araris and Kas have predictable habits. Araris does a stab votes the first reason he sees to vote someone-claims to reconsider-actually reconsiders in the first round that's fairly low impact. Kas self excludes from rts, but can be caught starting to analyze them if not forewarned. Both players followed this pattern. Araris would do it regardless of alignment, Kas I think showed his village hand by doing so. 

Participle held two beliefs at once - that I'm evil and neutral, which is convoluted. Elims would adopt a simpler belief imo. 

Misread Bald's sarcasm as genuine. Ignore that. Although I'm curious where they've gone to. 

Aeoryi has started doing predictable chaos (*always* self voting) which I find ungenuine. But it's NAI. 

What's acc stand for @neil the beguiled

[Kasimir he/him]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Explicitly prefer if people don't sheep me because I'll be really upset with myself if JNV is V and I misread them. I just can't really let go of the things that are bugging me but it's also uncomfortable to me for people to be regarding it as much of a case when I'm struggling to articulate, to a level I feel personally satisfied by, why I can't seem to stop staring at JNV, contra my usual 'stahp JNV is Village get off' swatting at people.

To be clear, I literally mean sheep.

If you think there's reasons, go for it. If you think I'm insane or whatever, then don't. Not saying "don't vote JNV but let me park a vote on them." Am saying that don't go "huh Kas thinks there's something weird about JNV so lemme join in" because I'm really not sure I'm correct. I just feel strongly enough that I keep getting something off about JNV's posts that I feel like it's worth pursuing this strand.

I guess you can make a meta-argument that I feel strongly enough about this or can't let it go enough that I'm pushing it despite hating it so much. But yeah. Whatever. I don't know anymore.

15 minutes ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

I was reading through quickly and thought I saw you responding to suspicion.

Ah. No. Just something that's been annoying me for maybe three to four games now.

16 minutes ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

It would for some folks, but the ultimate nature of the play is to make people feel awkward about leaving a vote on you, and Archer definitely understands that. Villagers have been pulling this kind of thing frequently enough that I think it’s inevitable an elim does it just for the cred, and a D1 SK claim fits right with that for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Easy cred?

I feel that in that world, you'd be hypothesising E!partners largely in the ignore tier IMO. As much as Archer pooh-poohs it, it feels like where E!partners would be.

[Coffeecat she/her]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

For anyone who wants context, I just remember a clash with Coffee from QF6. The one game that put me on a SE blacklist for a while 

I do not remember any incidents, did I do something bad or just be extremely suspicious?

 

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Coffeecat said:

I do not remember any incidents, did I do something bad or just be extremely suspicious?

No, we just annoyed the heck out of everyone because we spoke nothing but German during that entire group PM  And spec was laughing their arses off at how some people you were in chats with were going nuts while luckat was like 'Google Translate time!' and I said 'At last, my hour has come!' I'm being disingenuous when I mention the blacklist because the reason I got blacklisted didn't have anything to do with you.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

Right now I'm down to you, Bald, and Aman(?) as my suspect list. (Opinion on Araris depends on C2 performance.) I don't really see why I should trust you. And getting rid of you solves my two ravens issue. 

So does the 19th of December 

And my tell is usually very catchable later on, so I'd argue that's a reason not to go for me now.

Coffeecat

Ash

Joining Aman because I want more from Ash, just simply anything if possible

@Ashbringer

[Ookla de los Cuervos he/him]

if im killed within the next few cycles, i wouldnt be shocked.  i also wouldnt be shocked if i was kill this cycle. get the wildcard out of the way.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

It was a willingness to get voted on for v lean Archer, @Kasimir, which hasn't been the case for others that look to be pursuing convention goals. 

Having a real neutral throws off reaction tests, since nobody other than Archer can know for a fact whether Archer is village, and the SK is the only one who knows whether he's the SK.

Dislike Aeoryi jumping on JNV vote. Don't think it makes sense to vote for me, but an elim would probably be aware of 'post something 3x' style convention game. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

9 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

 

Dislike Aeoryi jumping on JNV vote. Don't think it makes sense to vote for me, but an elim would probably be aware of 'post something 3x' style convention game. 

Why do you expect elims to be more cgwc conscious?

29 minutes ago, Ookla the Rich said:

Just woke up today after running a DND one shot last night, so that’s why I haven’t responded! Scanned everything and here’s my thoughts.
 

I like @Kasimir’s thinking, but then again, who doesn’t… So that doesn’t really give us a read on him.

As a lowly inexperienced player, @Ookla the Resolute seems to be engaged a little too frantically.

Beyond that, I don’t have much.

Resolute

 

 

Fair, fair.

[JNV]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

In summation:

JNV.

@JNV Quokka Buddy / @Amanuensis ThreadPMBro  please talk some sense into me.

Honestly your ability to have a case on me is a good sign about overcoming the instinctive bro read cred so good on you anyway you mentioned how Im apparently writing off evil Archers gambit last LG I mean honestly I kinda didnt remember that but theres also this kinda fundamental difference bewtween Archer doing a gambit late game and Archer opening with some crazy gambit thats like obviously absurd if you know what I mean but tahts not reallywhat your case is addressing I guess so the logic of your case holds if you think evils tned to have outlier responses and Im an outlier response without an obvious justification for being an outlier like Aeoryi chaos or Neil cross culture stuff then yeah theres a case there and um I dont really know what you mean by clean if you mean Im not wobbling on stuff it might be finals brain no time to wobble when you need to memorize a bunch of random French kings but anyway the sense Im talking into you is its good youre capable of suspecting me so carry on with that I guess

Anyway lifes actually picking up today and then itll pick up tomorrow and then Ill be free so bye bye I dont know if Ill be back by rollover but Ill try 

[Aeoryi she/her]

Aeoryi

May be back before rollover probably hopefully 

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, JNV said:

Honestly your ability to have a case on me is a good sign about overcoming the instinctive bro read cred

What if I don't want to.

I play to chill with my bros.

Seriously what's the point of it if you're Village and I ML you.

1 minute ago, JNV said:

yeah theres a case there and um I dont really know what you mean by clean if you mean Im not wobbling on stuff

I think so. I feel like you tend to wobble more and I also feel like you tend to get - caught up on things, maybe. I don't know the right word for it. Like fishbones. Like people will do weird things and it'll catch you and you'll be aware of that. Your last Aeo read was almost opposite-valenced from how you'd read that I guess. Maybe.

2 minutes ago, JNV said:

I guess so the logic of your case holds if you think evils tned to have outlier responses and Im an outlier response without an obvious justification for being an outlier

I think you're an outlier but what's really pushing me to you over the others is the fact your play feels viscerally different I guess, and here I am back to struggling to express what I'm catching and what I might be wrong about.

And see, I hate that too because it's good if V!Aeo. Like...am I really pushing/wanting to exe you for making progress in terms of your play? That's sort of not cool too.

Okay, for anyone who really doesn't like it, please ignore the ongoing Quokka Therapy session and don't let it affect your read of me I don't choose when to have paralysis issues these days I guess.

[Aeoryi she/her]

Anyways, certain peoples need to vote

EDIT: 

Why is everyone voting ash again where did that come from?

Ngl rather people vote me for being weird than ash for having finals

[Kasimir he/him]

31 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

It was a willingness to get voted on for v lean Archer, @Kasimir, which hasn't been the case for others that look to be pursuing convention goals. 

Having a real neutral throws off reaction tests, since nobody other than Archer can know for a fact whether Archer is village, and the SK is the only one who knows whether he's the SK.

Dislike Aeoryi jumping on JNV vote. Don't think it makes sense to vote for me, but an elim would probably be aware of 'post something 3x' style convention game. 

I'm admittedly back to questioning if I'm once again LG84 tunnelling on you as you had a gambit response there that threw me as well and that I couldn't get over for most of the game until you killed an Elim.

Maybe I should take my own challenge to Archer seriously and accept I'm just not good at projecting/modelling your assumptions.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

jokes on you I don't know what bucket strat means

Mass PR claim (qua PR not in detail.) Mass regular claim. So there are two buckets. PRs taken at face value, so Village doesn't accidentally kill PRs and focuses on cleansing within the regular bucket. PRs try to Stay Alive and use abilities wisely. There are a bunch of tactical considerations there. Don't ask me why I've heard of this.

[Aeoryi she/her]

How does bucket strat even function here 

[JNV]

Ok so I was going to go study for the last final but no its Quokka Therapy time hi Im your quokka therapist Doctor Quokka nice to  meet you

Spoiler

 

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

What if I don't want to.

I play to chill with my bros.

Seriously what's the point of it if you're Village and I ML you.

The point is one youre helping me improve my village play two we had a good time like its fun you suspect me its interesting it lets me look at my play more closely and think about why I do what I do which is helpful cause if Im falling into bad habits its good you point that out and all that you suspecting me helps me play a better game

11 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I think so. I feel like you tend to wobble more and I also feel like you tend to get - caught up on things, maybe. I don't know the right word for it. Like fishbones. Like people will do weird things and it'll catch you and you'll be aware of that. Your last Aeo read was almost opposite-valenced from how you'd read that I guess. Maybe.

I mean yeah fair but like every time Ive ever suspected Aeoryi theve been village every single time and I do not have the brain right now to agonize about it theres too much calculus in here maybe after the last final youll see more agonizing wobbles and such but we are autopiloting this brain right now its not stopping to think so like eh 

12 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I think you're an outlier but what's really pushing me to you over the others is the fact your play feels viscerally different I guess, and here I am back to struggling to express what I'm catching and what I might be wrong about.

And see, I hate that too because it's good if V!Aeo. Like...am I really pushing/wanting to exe you for making progress in terms of your play? That's sort of not cool too.

Okay, for anyone who really doesn't like it, please ignore the ongoing Quokka Therapy session and don't let it affect your read of me I don't choose when to have paralysis issues these days I guess.

If you see something you see something and then it establishes the play for next time like if you misvote me for something then its established play so it wont be a hangup next time and if youre right then youre right like I see nothing but good things here from you suspecting me either I get to chill and sell quokkas illegally in the dead doc or I get to grow a little with a playstyle thats kinda different I get to play around with things and all that 

Everythings fine ok everythings fine anyway are there any other things you want to talk about in Quokka Therapy

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

How does bucket strat even function here 

Spoiler

3 minutes ago, JNV said:

Ok so I was going to go study for the last final but no its Quokka Therapy time hi Im your quokka therapist Doctor Quokka nice to  meet you

 

Oh God no please go study for the last final. French Kings go I believe in u o7

Edited December 13, 2023 by Kasimir
I borked the quote don't ask

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

10 hours ago, Kasimir said:

(TKN here, I recommend collapsing this quote, it's long and I don't want snip it)

I'm trying to understand this with regard to your views on Aman's own predilection for reaction tests. But I don't disagree that the claim wasn't particularly believable, just on the basis of the context. 

With regard to 'sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on' - does this influence your assessment of the likelihood of E!Archer here?

While I also appreciate the sentiment given my known antipathy towards/hatred towards being Evil, and definitely hope to have a chill/fun Evil game with you and Aman someday (still working on it, the offsite games are helping and I just came off a non-traumatising, chill Evil game so the jury's out on whether I can bring that attitude back to SE and fix my Village and Evil games), I'm sort of confused what motivated...this. Because I don't think I was under serious pressure or threat vote-wise, and the last time I died to anything not a NK was probably in 2018 or so. Though I guess the other site's probably trying to break that, woohoo.

I am closing this browser tab if we're having a repeat of LG98b D1. I am done. I am not going to relive that ._.

I'm not sure why you are overdefending right now. I know this is a you thing but I'm also not voting you right now. Devo has a train monopoly and I'm currently considering how I feel about that.

Take it from AG8: doing analysis when dead tired gets you increasingly Pepe Silva trash.

Cool, continuing to ignore this because I'm not having a constructive response to forming a likely alignment-sensitive read.

I'd prefer not to. Part of the point is recalibrating your reads/what you take into account to how the player is, rather than asking the player to shift playstyles. I'm not asking you to not chaos, I'm asking you to not aggressively chaos at me right now because that is provoking a response neither of us will like if we're V/V.

I'll add for the record that while I know meta reads are controversial and it's been weird shifting from an environment where I am completely meta-blind to one steeped in meta, I do think they play an important function in allowing us to control for player foibles and oddities. I think that's worth preserving in an environment where we want to allow playstyle latitude.

If you don't like post caps, don't sign up for a light game of all things. MU doesn't allow post edits at all unlike us so you'd be busting that cap pretty fast.

And no, to clarify, I do not play on MU, our styles do not vibe at all. (Sorry Neil, not trying to uh, shoot down your other forum. I just don't vibe with that place, I'm too chill for it  )

If you don't want to, why do them? Not everyone has to play by offering a complete set of reads, and sometimes it's more aggravating to do so. My dirty secret is some Village games I just don't feel like Villaging. It just happens that players guilt me into doing it (not deliberately), or I know I'm about to die so I force myself into one more round of analysis to try to leave as much as I can for Village/in the hopes I can leave it in a good spot. And I really shouldn't do that either, but that's probably why so many SE players feel my E!tells are fairly robust.

Mat tried to N1 me, yeah. So did Aman

Aman I forgive. He's my bro and he just wanted to end my suffering instead of making me cry trying to make myself exe him or fight him.

As Aman says, Meerkats are cute animals with dull teeth and claws, so I'm not really sure why you'd wanna C1 me! It all works out just fiiiiiiiine!

I actually requested a pinch-hitter in LG98, jysk. There was none available so I soldiered on. And I did get one late in LG95 as a Villager, which was Stick's wild experience of pinch-hitting into a slot and...not getting sussed  

@Ookla the Bald - I know you work better by C3, but can you offer Aeo or Devo thoughts at this juncture? If not them, thoughts on how we should proceed with regard to the SK? (I'd prefer if most people avoided this question - I do have a reason for asking, but I don't want an answer to this from most.)

So there are three sets of things I need to get done in the thread, but I'd rather not bloat this post too much. I'm avoiding giving a solid reads list largely because I don't want to redo it all over again after dealing with, to be real honest, the clusterchull on stilts that's Archer's reaction test. (I'll explain why I consider it a clusterchull when I get to it.)

I can say I've got negative leans on the set of: <Aeo, Devo, JNV, Ravenclaw, Aman.> I don't consider Aman a player I'm willing to D1, simpliciter, given he's returning and I don't play with him often enough. 

1. Reads
2. Archer's Clusterchull on Stilts
3. Contemporary vote analysis

They're all kind of intertwined, I know, this is more a reminder for me.

Bold mine.

Aeoryi... I really don't like the chaos. Don't think it's an e!indication though. I can't be at all confident either way, but I'd probably be more willing to exe them than any other given person. Devo is Devo. She always feels pretty grey, if that makes any sense. I kinda think Devo is normally catchable by voting though. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

Although I'm curious where they've gone to. 

Sleep and school, mostly. I've been reading up but haven't had too much posting time.

[Aeoryi she/her]

I

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Bald said:

Bold mine.

Aeoryi... I really don't like the chaos. Don't think it's an e!indication though. I can't be at all confident either way, but I'd probably be more willing to exe them than any other given person. Devo is Devo. She always feels pretty grey, if that makes any sense. I kinda think Devo is normally catchable by voting though. 

Sleep and school, mostly. I've been reading up but haven't had too much posting time.

mean what do people even expect from me like what do you want to even see 

I am once again going to reiterate that I would rather be ML'd than ash, so I encourage @Ookla the Raveness and @Amanuensis to vote somewhere else

I mean I've been playing very linearly to my only elim game with the bad voting patterns and all that so like I understand if I get Exe'd 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I am once again going to reiterate that I would rather be ML'd than ash, so I encourage @Ookla the Raveness and @Amanuensis to vote somewhere else

Is there a reason you're particularly defending Ash, and is there a train you'd rather make?