TheSurvivorofDeath Posted December 24, 2022 Posted December 24, 2022 (edited) Who would win in a fight, era 1 Kelsier, with only the powers he had in The Final Empire, so no duralumin or era two metals, or Kaladin as of the end of RoW? To me it seems clear that Kaladin, as a Windrunner of the Fourth Ideal, is taking the win here, but if we consider emotional allomancy and Atium, and Kelsier’s penchant for ruthlessness, our favorite Survivor might pull out the win. I’m interested to see what you guys think. Edited December 24, 2022 by TheSurvivorofDeath
therunner he/him Posted December 24, 2022 Posted December 24, 2022 Well Plate blocks emotional allomancy, so that won't help Kelsier. Without Duralumin he has no way to get through plate. The sole trump card he has is Atium, but that will run out fast + it will only help him survive longer, not win.
offer Posted December 24, 2022 Posted December 24, 2022 TLM spoilers are not allowed in this forum. Please delete the remark about it
alder24 Posted December 24, 2022 Posted December 24, 2022 Quote Questioner Who would win in a fight, Kaladin or Kelsier? Brandon Sanderson Kelsier, he fights dirty. Kaladin has, probably, more raw power-- I don't know. Kelsier's going to win easy though. He's just going to murder him in his sleep. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6/#e335 Quote Questioner Kelsier vs. Kaladin, who wins? Brandon Sanderson Kelsier is meaner. Kelsier is sneakier. Raw power - I'm not sure, but I'm gonna go with Kelsier. If its on a battlefield, Kelsier doesn't win. If its off the battlefield, Kelsier wins. Kaladin is a soldier. He can fight a war and fight with a team and he can win a battle. Kelsier can sneak into someones house and stab them. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/90/#e4648 However these were asked before RoW and before Kaladin got his plate. Shardplate gives him a huge advantage in a fight, so Kelsier would need some sort of miracle to get behind a plate. That's why I think Kaladin would win - unless being stabbed while sleeping is still part of the fight, then Kelsier wins. And you should edit out TLM spoilers from here, or put it in a spoiler tag. 1
AerionBFII he/him Posted December 24, 2022 Posted December 24, 2022 Straight up fisty cuffs = Kaladin But Kelsier would just try to cut his throat in his sleep or hit him when he least expects it. So it comes down to when and where. 2
TheSurvivorofDeath Posted December 24, 2022 Author Posted December 24, 2022 9 hours ago, offer said: TLM spoilers are not allowed in this forum. Please delete the remark about it Completely slipped my mind. Thank you for letting me know
StanLemon Posted December 24, 2022 Posted December 24, 2022 Kaladin. With Plate he's faster, stronger, and more durable than Kelsier. He's the most skilled human on Roshar who isn't a millenia old semi divine being. Whereas Kelsier is at best only the third strongest Mistborn in Era 1 and has access to only half of the metals.
Adamkarma he/him Posted December 25, 2022 Posted December 25, 2022 Kaladin isn't the most skilled. Jasnah is. Not fightwise. But Radiantwise. Sure.
Frustration Posted December 25, 2022 Posted December 25, 2022 6 hours ago, Adamkarma said: Kaladin isn't the most skilled. Jasnah is. Not fightwise. But Radiantwise. Sure. Oath level isn't necessarily a measure of skill. Nor is skill easy to compare across orders
TheSurvivorofDeath Posted December 25, 2022 Author Posted December 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, Frustration said: Oath level isn't necessarily a measure of skill. Nor is skill easy to compare across orders Exactly. In a combat situation, Jasnah has a power that allows her to sow destruction on unparalleled levels, if used properly. Kaladin has a power that augments, enhances, and is skill. Kaladin is the most combat-skilled non-Herald on Roshar by far, capable of fighting entire armies in what is effectively hand to hand combat, just with a bit of flying and healing thrown in. Jasnah can turn armies to stone or ash with a wave of her hand, or light the very air ablaze; this requires skill in her powers, of course, but she certainly could not handle a combat situation with no powers or Blade, while Kaladin can fight beings like Fused without his powers, just because he is that absolutely skillful.
alder24 Posted December 26, 2022 Posted December 26, 2022 Jasnah has the biggest skills with using her Radiant powers, as he has nearly 10 years of experience. But this is necessary for her, as she's using transportation and transformation surges, that require a lot of expertise. Kaladin is a great soldier, he also has years of experience with fighting and is one of the most skilled fighter on Roshar. And as we've seen in RoW that even without surges and Shardblade he is still extremely dangerous, more dangerous than Jasnah would be in that situation for sure (as she struggled fighting with one Fused without her Radiant powers). And I would add to this list also Szeth and Dalinar. Szeth as he also is experienced with most of the surges, he is an excellent fighter, able to fight multiple Shardbeares and half-shards with just his bare hands and surges, and what's most important, he now has the sword that kills everyone with a single touch. He stopped Ishar, Herald with 7000 years of fighting experience and Honorblade. And Dalinar for his dozens of years of fighting - he is the most experienced warrior on Roshar. Of course, not counting Heralds or Fused or Vasher.
i’m in the details Posted December 27, 2022 Posted December 27, 2022 (edited) Don’t know if it’s enough to win, but we’ve seen hammers crack plate. Coins pushed at plate will wear it down. In metal heavy environment kel could run him out of stormlight. That said kals flying is more versatile and I don’t see him giving kel a chance. Night and day is relevant as well, afaik radiants don’t have enhanced eyesight so Kelsier could see Kaladin from far away while the same is not true. I think in elendel at night, era one Kelsier wins the majority mists or no. Basically any other situation tho Kaladin wins mid to low dif Edited December 27, 2022 by i’m in the details
Frustration Posted December 28, 2022 Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, i’m in the details said: Don’t know if it’s enough to win, but we’ve seen hammers crack plate. Coins pushed at plate will wear it down. In metal heavy environment kel could run him out of stormlight. That said kals flying is more versatile and I don’t see him giving kel a chance. Night and day is relevant as well, afaik radiants don’t have enhanced eyesight so Kelsier could see Kaladin from far away while the same is not true. I think in elendel at night, era one Kelsier wins the majority mists or no. Basically any other situation tho Kaladin wins mid to low dif Wooden shields block coins, as seen by lurchers, I doubt plate would even notice.
SPECTRE120 Posted December 28, 2022 Posted December 28, 2022 Era 1 Kelsier vs 4th Ideal Kaladin: Kaladin wins Era 2 Kelsier vs 4th Ideal Kaladin: Kelsier wins Era 1 Kelsier vs 3rd Ideal Kaladin: Kelsier wins 1
Frustration Posted December 28, 2022 Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, SPECTRE120 said: Era 1 Kelsier vs 3rd Ideal Kaladin: Kelsier wins Brandon says otherwise, see @alder24's post Edited December 28, 2022 by Frustration
Letryx13 Posted December 28, 2022 Posted December 28, 2022 Brandon's original comparison of Kaladin and Kelsier was before Kaladin earned his plate. Kaladin's fourth ideal puts him over Kelsier. Plate is just that huge an advantage. The only thing MistBorns have that can match is is Atium, which runs out very quickly. Unless Kelsier could take out Kaladin very quickly or sneak up on him when his plate isn't up, Kaladin wins hands down. 1
Tglassy Posted December 28, 2022 Posted December 28, 2022 I'm having a difficult time seeing Kelsior win, even though he'd be my favorite going in to this fight. Kel is my introduction to the Cosmere, so he's always been my favorite character. Plate is a huge advantage. Personally, I think Flared Pewter gives a similar buff to non living plate in the strength department, as Vin was able to fight with Koloss swords easily enough and Plate has those huge hammers, but for a Mistborn, Pewter is a limited resource. If Kel had enough Pewter to flare the whole fight, then he at least has that going for him. But Plate protects better than Pewter. Though, I don't think we should underestimate the destructiveness of Kelsior hopping about on stealpushes/Ironpulls, whipping everything around him up in a frenzy the way he did to the Inquisitor. You hit the Plate enough times with metal, and it will break. We just don't know how much it takes to heal Living Plate. What happens to it if the Radiant doesn't have Stormlight? Can they summon it? It seems to always be there, even when not holding Stormlight. So what happens when it breaks? We don't know. We assume it just takes Stormlight to heal, but does it? Atium is a pretty darn good I Win button. We know Living Plate can cover up the eye slit, though it's hard to see through. If Kel got in close and started burning Atium, it's possible he could put a dagger through the eye slit like Kal did to Heleran. If he could manage that, then Kal should black out. Just hold the dagger there until the stormlight runs out. But if the Radiant closes that slit, I don't see a glass dagger getting through Plate. Maybe after cracking it first, which is POSSIBLE, but not likely. Of course, Kal has bindings, so he can divert coins and make the flying objects stick to whatever they hit. That's a huge advantage. If both are able to prepare, then Kel would need to bring lots and lots of large metal objects. Hammers, maces and the like. Lots of stuff to push and pull. It's really his only advangtage besides Atiuim. Emotional Allomancy won't do anything. Maybe Copper Clouds would do something, but it's hard to say. Bronze helps always know where the Radiant is. Strategy would depend on the location and objects around. If in the middle of a dirt field, brinigng whatever you want with you, then Kel can use coins to kick up dirt, like Vin did the one time, then use Tin and Atium to see through it while Kal is blind, then go in for a kill shot. But if he can't get it, Kal will likely win. He's just got too much going for him. If Kel had Chromium and Bendalloy, then maybe he'd have a shot depending on how Leaching works. If it can disrupt Plate, then he's good to go. Atium goes a long way, but if there's not a means of winning in the short window it's burned, then it doesn't help much. It mainly helps with the stab to the face plan. I'd probably give this one to Kal. Plate is such a huge advantage. It nullifies Pewter, which is the Mistborn's huge advantage, and protects better.
Frustration Posted December 28, 2022 Posted December 28, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tglassy said: Personally, I think Flared Pewter gives a similar buff to non living plate in the strength department Dead Plate allows you to easily do with one hand what two/three men would struggle to do. WoK 415. Flared pewter only triples strength Spoiler Sandastron I’m very curious about pewter. How much Feruchemical pewter, steel, and gold would you have to take in in order to be equal to burning pewter and flaring. Brandon Sanderson Oh…um, okay. So you wanna...ok, let’s back this up. So you wanna know feruchemically what would it take to match burning? Sandastron Yes. Brandon Sanderson Okay. So burning pewter, I kind of imagine...roughly doubling. Roughly. Sandastron Double your strength? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. But without the muscle mass change, it’s a magical boost. So because of that it has some pretty dramatic effects, like when Vin jumps and things like that. Sandastron So it’s only a double, so would flaring it bring it any higher? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Flaring would go higher. Sandastron Would it be like triple? Brandon Sanderson Maybe like triple. Sandastron Maybe like tripling...that’s fascinating. So I always thought normal burning would triple it and flaring would quadruple. Brandon Sanderson Yeah I always felt kind of double. You won’t see people burning pewter and lifting a car. Sandastron Right, exactly. Brandon Sanderson You see people burning pewter and delivering a really solid punch. Sandastron Gotcha, thank you. That is fascinating…and would it be about doubling speed and healing ability? Brandon Sanderson I haven’t worked out the numbers on that exactly. I have an instinct that says thatburning pewter, healing goes a bit faster but I have to look in the books and see what we’ve done in the past and then kind of canonize it. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/9/#e7674 Shardplate is much stronger than pewter.
Immortal Platypus Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 ok, so do they know each other's powers? if Kelsier doesn't, even if he makes it in Kal's defense and stabs him, he'll think Kal is dead and leave but Kal will heal.
Through the Living Hopper He/Him Posted February 12, 2025 Posted February 12, 2025 On 12/28/2022 at 5:42 AM, Letryx13 said: Unless Kelsier could take out Kaladin very quickly or sneak up on him when his plate isn't up, Kaladin wins hands down. WaT spoiler: Spoiler Shardplate doesn't actually stop protecting you when it isn't summoned: it just stops giving you the strength boost. Somebody stabs Kaladin and the Plate deflects it even though it's not summoned. I'm presuming that the same rules apply in sleep.
#1 Taln Fan he/him Posted February 12, 2025 Posted February 12, 2025 45 minutes ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said: WaT spoiler: Reveal hidden contents Shardplate doesn't actually stop protecting you when it isn't summoned: it just stops giving you the strength boost. Somebody stabs Kaladin and the Plate deflects it even though it's not summoned. I'm presuming that the same rules apply in sleep. @ThatOneWorldhopper It's been 2 years since the last post in this topic. Per our forum guidelines, necro'ing posts like this is not allowed. 2
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