Letryx13

I remember in Oathbringer that Jasnah commented about how during the battle of Thaylen field she was holding more stormlight than she ever had before. She said something about how the human body wasn't meant to hold that much. It might be something similar.

I admit, I've disliked Jaasnah since her 'lesson' for Shallan.

It's a finer line than most give it credit for. And I wouldn't say he treated Wax like a dog, but like a soldier. Wax himself set out on the path to being a law man in the roughs. But as far as Paalm goes, the only thing we know for sure about what she was ordered to do was keep an eye on Wax and then try to draw him back to Elendel, the second of which she refused to do. Harmony's mistake was at that point, when he wasn't upfront with needing Wax's help. He should have sent another kandra to Wax to help recruit Wax back to Elendel, not had Lessie "killed" to drive him back. But importantly, I think he learned from that mistake. I think that's why he was so more transparent about what was going on in TLM about Autonomy. Sazed said himself that he was trying to do better. He needs all of that. But I think he has the right idea in avoiding Hemalurgy. Even if he does control Ruin, there's too much opportunity to exploit it. Don't forget about the creatures that attacked Wax and Tensoon in the kandra homeland. And who knows what else it might be capable of. He should want that too. Nah, he's more like a cowboy Sherlock Holmes. Way cooler. As far as we know, the first example of Harmony trying to influence Wax directly was when Melaan gave him the first earring. And Wax was already on his way to the roughs to try and make a difference there. I don't think Harmony pushed Wax as hard as most people think. At least, not toward becoming a lawman.

Give how time is moving much faster outside of Roshar than inside, it seems unlikely. I would have loved to see Wax visiting Roshar as a diplomat, had things gone differently on Roshar, but alas, it was not to be. Agreed. Sanderson built up things dramatically in the first half from Kaladin trying to save bridge four to becoming a herald and Dalinar having strange "dreams" to becoming a deity. Need to reset the scale a bit. I don't like what Harmony did, but at the same time, he started out the right way. He was trying to have Wax grow as a law man and warrior and eventually bring him back to Elendel. He went about handling Lessie's defiance the wrong way, but by that point, there probably wasn't enough time to find anyone else. Well, Wax had wanted to be a hero since he was a child, and I doubt that was due to any specific influence on Harmony's part. Lot's of kids on Skadriel probably dream of being like the Ascendant Warrior. Harmony probably took advantage of that, and I'm not thrilled that he did, but at the same time, he is genuinely trying to help his people. One of the questions that kept coming up in Mistborn Era 2 characters was why Harmony would just let things happen, and the answer that kept coming up was how Harmony was guiding people to help. Well, the line between guiding and manipulating is fine, so I can understand how Sazed could take things too far, despite good intentions.

Well, Hoid did instruct him to get off world. So that likely had something to do with it. We know that things eventually soured between Sig and his master, but it seems like that takes place after WaT.

One thing that Sanderson did great with this book was the many callbacks to the earlier books in the series. From Kaladin's famous declaration, "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do," to the father of the boy Adolin saved in Thaylen city being so loyal to Adolin, to the Takama in Dalinar's quarters having the belt wrapped twice, there were a lot of great call backs. My personal favorite was Kaladin asking Nale if Lyft had defeated him with the fork. I genuinely laughed out loud at that. But what was your favorite?

The problem is that if the singers get wind that BAM was the spren their ancestors were bonded to, turning them into parshmen, they may be reluctant to work with her. She may not have done it intentionally, but there's still a risk factor. Agreed. We don't know which shards would be doing this, but it's clear that Harmony would if he could. Unfortunately, not only is he dealing with his own threat in Autonomy, but there's the issue of him having trouble acting while holding opposing shards. Of course, a common threat tends to unite people, even when they have their differences from one another. So if three or more of the shards can work together to pin Retribution down, he's screwed. Also agreed. It's somewhat ironic, considering how much they've been a problem for Roshar, but the Ghost Bloods would be extremely useful for this, since it's exactly the sort of thing that their leader is good at. It's basically how he achieved his first real victory against a different, albeit more well intentioned, would be deity. Hard to say. But I suspect if there's anything of him left on Roshar, it's not much. He won't risk himself getting caught like that. Taravangian basically thought he won Roshar by taking up the shard of Honor. And he's arrogant enough to assume that no on left there would defy him. Time will tell. Exactly. That's the premise for this idea. He's the obvious choice. But the thing is that we still know so little about him. So it's hard to say what it is that he really wants. She's arguably the biggest wild card left on Roshar, except possibly the Night Watcher. There's no real way to know what she's going to do. Rayse never wanted her freed, likely realizing that her imprisonment was part of why the shard of Honor hadn't chosen a new vessel. But since it was both a human who locked her up and a human that helped free her, it's impossible to guess what she's planning on doing. This is one of the things I didn't like about this book. It makes sense that the spiritual aspects of people can connect, even across time, but for the spiritual aspect of Dalinar in the past to become aware like that opens up way too many possibilities. It's basically magical cloning. Assuming this new Blackthorn becomes as alive as Dalinar, then there's no reason he couldn't travel back to the spiritual realm and do the same thing to more past versions of Dalinar.

True, we have no idea what she might do to help the singers this time around. No one enjoys it when their help goes unappreciated. Who would a pseudo-deity rather support, people who appreciate her help or people who don't?

Well, it's more of a question of risk than blame. However it happened, it happened while they were all bonded to her. As far as who she supports, it's true that she would likely focus on those who oppose Retribution, well, she's probably not going to go where she's not wanted. And she likely can't empower Singers without their consent.

Also true. Venli managed to recruit people in Kholinar largely because of their fear of being taken over by Fuzed. Or at least their desire to be free of them. Exactly. The Fuzed will only be capable of doing so much with so few of them. And without a war to keep the singer masses focused outward, they're going to want to assert their independence. That's another factor, but then again, Taravangian could view that as a betrayal of loyalty to him. And we don't know how long it will take Honor to grow enough to begin exerting more influence over Taravangian's decisions. Yes, it mostly depends on how many Singers know how they ended up as Parshmen. Some would likely be willing to trust Mishram again, but most would likely be wary of allying with her again. Taravangian noted the his most valuable asset with the Singers was their rage toward humans. The reason most singers hated humans so much was because of what they were forced to endure as Parshmen. And Mishram was a big part of how they got turned into Parshmen.

Possibly. But that akso proves the singers weren't as united as the humans thought. True. She is absolutely a huge factor. But after what happened last time, the singers will likely be hesitant to work with her. Agreed. Rabonial confirmed there were many attempts to resist Fuzed rule in the times of the ancient radiants. I suspect Connection plays a large role in it too. That was my impression ever since we saw how differently the different singers acted after they were restored by the Everstorm. Since their souls were missing such a large piece, the Everstorm connected them to the land they were born to. Kind of like certain language abilities that Dalinar could do, but much more powerful. True, and that was foolish of me to simplify it like that. What I meant was, there would be cracks that any who oppose Retribution can exploit. That's kind of what I mean. So many will want to take different roads that it's going to lead to conflict. With both fuzed and regular singers. Without someone powerful to unify the singers, things are going to get messy, which will cause real problems for Taravangian when he eventually returns.

With the Storm Father gone, I strongly suspect that Syl will be his eventual replacement. But I suspect that won't happen anytime soon. Sounds like the sort of change that would happen in Book 10.

Something I've wondered about is what the singers will do during the time skip. Something that Sanderson has been pretty good about is turning expectations against his readers, such as assuming that all members of groups are united in one way or another. A good example of this is when Adolin is talking to Peak spren on his journey to Lasting Integrity and finds out they have different nationalities. And those nationalities don't seem to think too highly of each other. Which makes me think that things might get a little chaotic for the Singer nations going forward. The main thing that united them for the past several thousand years was common cause. Namely, defeating the humans and followers of Honor. Not only is that gone, but the deity that they followed and kept them together is gone as well. And who know when he's coming back. Combine that with the fact that their world has now changed completely with the Ever Storm and the singers might not be so happy about the world they ended up with. The singers are not above abusing their fellows for one reason or another. After Kaladin spent time with newly awakened singers, Sah and his fellows were basically enslaved. They even complained that they went from being abused by humans to being abused by their own people. And they were not happy about it. Sure, the Fuzed are still around, but they create their own wrinkle. Most of them want to be done with the conflict. Rabonial wanted anti light partially to help end Fuzed suffering. One of the Fuzed told Venli in Oathbringer that the Fuzed would be able to rest after they won back Roshar. They've basically done that. If Taravangian doesn't let them pass on, then they might start to decide they don't want to follow him anymore. Leshwi proves it's possible even for Fuzed to defect. What do I think that means? Well, as was pointed out during the meeting between the Mink, Dalinar, Jasnah, and Navani, Altehkar's unification didn't last a decade after Gavilar's death. Dalinar even points out in TWoK that the most delicate point in any nation's founding is immediately after the death of its founder. If that founder is Odium, while he may not be dead, he isn't on the planet anymore, which is pretty much as good as being dead as far as the people of Roshar are concerned. At least for now. And in that situation, considering the singers adopted much of their personalities from the human nations they come from and how those nations weren't all friendly, I think conflict between Singer nations is extremely likely. Rayse and Taravangian were planning on being there on Roshar to be able to build up militaries to send them off world for his eventual conquest of the cosmere. But since Retribution had to flee, he basically had to leave his followers behind to fend for themselves. If Hoid is correct, and Taravangian doesn't pay as much attention to Roshar as he should while he's gone, then I'd wager that large cracks will start to appear in the Singer nations. Cracks that the humans will be able to exploit in a counterattack.

I've wondered about that too. At this point, Kelsier is almost identical to a spren, which means he's nearly pure investiture. I kept wondering how Ba-Ado-Mishram could take up the shard when she's effectively the same.

Wit specifically says it wasn't a full ascension, which strongly points to Vin. We don't know for certain that he even knows about Kelsier holding the power of Preservation in-between Leras and Vin. But assuming he does know, since the power hadn't truly chosen Kelsier, it probably was easier for Kelsier to let go of it. That being said, it was still one of the more noble things Kelsier ever did. I've wondered that too. Could that orb have allowed Kelsier to hold the power indefinitely? I'd wager not. At least, not unless the person were already aligned with the power, which Kelsier wasn't. Agreed.