Long Game 83: The Survivor

[Bort he/him]

6 hours ago, Tani said:

Tani is a girl.  You should unvote me in apology.

How about I apologise for getting your gender wrong, and remove my vote for you when you remove your vote for me?

I think that sounds fair

[Quivil]

3 hours ago, Bort said:

How about I apologise for getting your gender wrong, and remove my vote for you when you remove your vote for me?

I think that sounds fair

Does your apology include a cookie? If not, then no, it doesn't sound fair.  After all, I am a mercenary and need sustenance in the form of cookies.

[Kasimir he/him]

Halluk was dead.

Kavar hadn't known her very well. Halluk was from Wolfhound, and Wolfhound was attached to Captain Foran. Already, the whispers were starting. A twist of the lockpicks and the mag-lock slipped open. Sergeant Vahn had taken him aside, sometime before the rumours and the whispers had begun, as he always had. "Orders from the captain," Vahn said. "Seems we have saboteurs. Need you to keep it quiet." His expression made it clear what he thought of the likelihood of that happening.

Far as Kavar knew, half the barracks was awash in whispers that there were Rosharan saboteurs on board.

Vahn beckoned him closer and dumped the bundle on the bunk.

Kavar blinked. A variety of implements and weapons tumbled loose on the cloth: he thought he made out a couple of shade guns, and even worse, an anti-investiture knife, still clasped securely in the safety-sheath. He reached out and then drew up short, glancing over at Vahn, who nodded.

Kavar picked up one of the knives, flipped it about. On the tang, there was the stamp of Larkin Foundries. A Rosharan knife.

He felt a cold tingle crawl down his spine, and the world seemed to slow, seemed to come into sharp clarity. He was keenly aware of where Vahn stood, two quick steps away, of the closest knife⁠—in his boot, so he was better off using the Rosharan knife⁠—and how he would take down Vahn if he had to. Nasaad murci’t, that intense state of focus in which Vahn was no longer Vahn, was an obstacle to be gotten past, a threat that had to be put down no matter the cost.

Vahn said, "They found this in Wolfhound."

The moment passed. Kavar let out a long steady breath. "Someone supplied him."

Vahn regarded him with those cold, almost-colourless eyes. "Sure didn't pick up those Larkin knives from the armoury, don't you think?"

Kavar acknowledged the point. "What orders?"

"Take two or three others. Look for contraband. The saboteurs have caches somewhere on this ship, if they're gearing up for something. Could be bad. A bomb, mutiny, that sort of thing. And if there's contraband, seize it, secure it, and bring it to the captain. Situation's volatile enough, Aral. Don't think I need to tell you how to play it."

"Shev'la," Kavar muttered.

He'd spoken to Plaid, and a little to some of the others. And now a woman was dead on the Survivor, and all Kavar could think was that the window of opportunity in which to act was narrowing.

One last op, he thought. It was always one last op. But what good would leaving have done? He didn't know how to be anything else, other than a knife. Kad'ika, Ailys had called him, long ago, in the dark hours of intimacy before first light. 

You could have left, whispered the doubt. Could have made it good to Mira.

No, he thought. He'd taught her well enough. Now she walked her own path. And as much as the growing gulf between them and the long silences cut deeper than the anti-investiture knife, he didn't have the right.

You and Ailys brought her into this world, he told himself. You have no right, not anymore.

Time to see if a saboteur cache was hidden in this locker.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Kasimir
Spelling

[Mat he/him]

9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Can y'all stop crossing the threads

I wasn't crossing threads, that was entirely open-ended, smh

8 hours ago, JNV said:

So your "previous point" was that you had an instinctual negative reaction to an opening post that is a rules analysis. I cna't do anything to change what my opening post was. Cool. It was something thrown together quickly so I'd have a post in the first few hours instead of waiting another 24 since I can only post about now. Honestly, with all the joking votes on returning players, I'm pretty okay with this. I'd rather die than ruin someone else's attempt to come back to something they've been away from fro a while especially since there's a whole other game for me.

I didn't like that my vote was for you doing analysis either, believe me- that's why I made the post encouraging discussion. I only find rules analysis posts suspicious if that's all the analyzer posts, because it makes it looks like they're contributing without actually doing anything, but I don't think that's what you're doing here. I like your reaction to this as well, it could very well be an elim trying to appear willing and villagery but if so it kind of worked because I'm leaning village on it :P.

8 hours ago, JNV said:

I think Thaidakar's claim is genuine. It reads very much like honest slip, and it happened so early in the cycle that I can't see plotting to slip like that as an elim

The coordination debate is really just a matter of opinion, but I have sort of the reverse opinion as Matrim where I'd rather coordinate during the day than the night beause it forces accountability when the results are right there but in the night it just allows for tampering or stealing from other people

I don't think the question is if Thaid's actually a Hazekiller, it's whether he's elim  As it is with all players. Except maybe Kas :P. I'd love it if v!Kas was covering for the real Thief but it doesn't really matter if he is.

Like, you're definitely entitled to have your own opinions and maybe this is just a product of you directly opposing me (knowingly) but... no?  Like, maybe it forces accountability but all the coordinating that's happened so far has been 'I'm taking x metal' which we would find out tonight anyway. I think it's better to let everyone pick what they want when we can see what they want, because that might reveal something too. Coordinating leaves the door open for the coordinators and closes off that insight we might get, because obviously everyone would comply, and we wouldn't get any info. I don't really think we should coordinate at night either, for what it's worth- but it's much more valuable because we don't get to see the results.

I appreciate this post, and even though I lean village on your response to me the second half undoes that a bit. I still don't really like the premise of my vote and will be looking for something better, but it stays for now. There are just no good trains D1, and like you said- you over Bort :P.

7 hours ago, The Unknown Aon said:

I will say that I think duralumin is a bit of an IKYK when it comes to elims. Chromium I think is far less useful for the village and more so for the elims. I don't think an elim would go for steel.

Edit: To expand on the duralumin comment, I think villagers want it just as much as elims, but the elims have a slightly more sus alternative in chromium. Steel is so sus that anyone but the most trusted person grabbing it would be an instant tell.

I kind of disagree with all of these points xD I don't get what you mean about Duralumin being an IKYK- I don't think we can assign alignments based on metal choice for any metal, ever (unless like, there's only one player who takes Nicrosil and then there's two elim kills or something :P) and I do think Duralumin is equally valuable for both teams (maybe more so for the village, since there's the incentive to keep it out of elim hands.)

Chromium I think is definitely better for the village in almost every way so I really don't understand that :P. It's hard for me to come up with an elim use for Chromium that'd be worth it over other metals they could get.

There isn't Steel to go for, right now. If there's a metal that's an IKYK I think it is Steel because of what you described, but the elims can always go for it in the night. If an elim is relatively trusted, and gets the Steel, they can kill a villager and just go "Oops :)" so I again don't think we can parse out alignments that way.

Does it make sense if this TUA post makes me want to unvote JNV? :P. I don't think I can read and react to this TUA post the way I did and keep my vote on JNV over TUA, if that makes sense, but I also don't have a preference between them and don't have enough info to decide.

Another random thought I had regarding Fifth- I thought that Fifth voting Stick and asking her to explain her vote was a weird way to react there. I thought it was semi-obvious that Stick was continuing the 'Fifth is always evil, vote him' train, so that question didn't really need to be asked. But we all agreed that Fifth is a non-starter right now, so :P.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Stick. she/her]

I'm the lead train!

Spoiler

 

Can't really respond to these votes even if I wanted to  I should probably give some actual thoughts on the thread tho - I promise I'll get around to it before the turn ends

[Bort he/him]

3 hours ago, Tani said:

Does your apology include a cookie? If not, then no, it doesn't sound fair.  After all, I am a mercenary and need sustenance in the form of cookies.

I'm sorry to say I do not carry cookies as standard, however, I am able to offer you an alternative that may be of interest to you as a mercenary - a Beardnut.

Not only can it be soaked to give at a giant cookie like texture, or super soaked to provide a sponge cake, in it's dried form it can also be used as siege weaponry!

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Well anything happen whilst I was gone? I see memes and memes and memes. So anyone make any mortal enemies yet?

[|TJ| he/him]

Catching up and re-reading the thread - 

On 2/16/2022 at 8:47 AM, Fifth Scholar said:

I am not planning on going insane with role-analysis, multiquoting, wallposting, rereading, and other compound words

Considering that multiquote!Fifth ends up getting trusted too early too often and no one revaluates their reads and he ends up burning them, I consider this a good thing >>

19 hours ago, The Unknown Aon said:

I object to this because not only am I not Mat, I have also been very free with info as a villager. 

You object... to my village read? xD One, it's not that you're free with info, it's the type of info you're free with. Two, and more importantly, I was providing context to my gut read. How I felt when I read that post. 

7 hours ago, Bort said:

How about I apologise for getting your gender wrong, and remove my vote for you when you remove your vote for me?

Something Drake-ish is going on here xD

Some more thoughts - 

21 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

quite. wait. Bort. Mat because of another D1 I remember.

I know you retracted this, but what does this exactly mean? 

A small but an important point in favor of JNV is - 

On 2/16/2022 at 9:53 AM, JNV said:

• Gold. Like tin but for you
  • Seems good if you have pewter and die but that's unpredictable

I believe Augury is more likely to come from a villager's mindset than an elim's. I was thinking about it myself, inspired by LG66 Magestar pulling something similar, but it's not likely JNV had this info. Not willing to vote for them in D1. 

Votes on Stick are... ret. poke, no reasoning aaand ret. poke :P. Not entertaining this too. 

Tani, you seem enough self-aware that you felt the need to clarify you were not an elim. Then why vote on Bort when we give leeway to returning players? It seemed like a joke vote at first, but it's been awhile now and it's still there. @Tani

Edit: Started this post a while ago and had work in between and didn't click on "go to new message" things so there's ninjas - 

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I kind of disagree with all of these points xD I don't get what you mean about Duralumin being an IKYK- I don't think we can assign alignments based on metal choice for any metal, ever (unless like, there's only one player who takes Nicrosil and then there's two elim kills or something :P) and I do think Duralumin is equally valuable for both teams (maybe more so for the village, since there's the incentive to keep it out of elim hands.)

I was about to comment on that post and must have missed it, but yeah. I was gonna say that item claims should always be treated supplementary to post reads and vote analysis, not a primary and surefire way to suspect but more so to assist the reads we get from posts and vote situations. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by |TJ|

[Mat he/him]

9 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

I believe Augury is more likely to come from a villager's mindset than an elim's. I was thinking about it myself, inspired by LG66 Magestar pulling something similar, but it's not likely JNV had this info. Not willing to vote for them in D1. 

I like this point. I was going to say that since I was planning on Gold+Pewter since before the game started (Much less my primary plan now that I know that I misunderstood how Gold works :P) that it’s NAI, but I did only think of it because of the Magestar play so you pointing out that JNV wouldn’t know about that is valid. I will add that JNV has shown themselves to be someone who’s very good at understanding rulesets, but I don’t know if that’s a point for or against their favor :P.

[Quivil]

40 minutes ago, Bort said:

I'm sorry to say I do not carry cookies as standard, however, I am able to offer you an alternative that may be of interest to you as a mercenary - a Beardnut.

Not only can it be soaked to give at a giant cookie like texture, or super soaked to provide a sponge cake, in it's dried form it can also be used as siege weaponry!

Oooo! That sounds acceptable. Bort.

17 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Tani, you seem enough self-aware that you felt the need to clarify you were not an elim. Then why vote on Bort when we give leeway to returning players? It seemed like a joke vote at first, but it's been awhile now and it's still there. @Tani

it's called playing.

[Bort he/him]

2 minutes ago, Tani said:

Oooo! That sounds acceptable. Bort.

Then I believe we have a deal... Would you like a chocolate chip, or raspberry swirl beardnut?

Tani.

Also, sorry I got your gender wrong

[Stick. she/her]

Some thoughts before I head to bed:

On 16/02/2022 at 7:08 AM, Matrim's Dice said:

Everyone’s a Mistborn, my claim was a joke. Sorry I accidentally prompted you to roleclaim xD

I will mark this Mat/Thaid interaction as non-E/E

On 16/02/2022 at 7:19 AM, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

I would like to grab the Shade gun because, well, SHADE GUN.

Just a reminder that you should also formally say this to Striker in your GM PM if you aren't joking

Slight village reading JNV for being transparent and asking Striker for rules clarification here instead of, say, a doc 

20 hours ago, The Unknown Aon said:

I object to this because not only am I not Mat, I have also been very free with info as a villager. 

Unnecessarily defensive comment from TUA

3 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I kind of disagree with all of these points xD

Likewise

Guess that's all :} 

edit:

JNV(1): Araris 
Danex(1): Karn
Stick(3): Szeth, Thaid, Fifth
Tani(1): TJ
Steel(1): Drake
TUA(1): Stick

Edited February 17, 2022 by _Stick_

[Mat he/him]

I’ll join on TUA. They’re not even with JNV anymore, after what TJ mentioned.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

34 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

 

On 2/15/2022 at 8:08 PM, Matrim's Dice said:

Everyone’s a Mistborn, my claim was a joke. Sorry I accidentally prompted you to roleclaim xD

I will mark this Mat/Thaid interaction as non-E/E

On 2/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

I would like to grab the Shade gun because, well, SHADE GUN.

Just a reminder that you should also formally say this to Striker in your GM PM if you aren't joking

 

Oh, *realizs I should DEFINITELY read the rules* okie.

2 hours ago, |TJ| said:

I know you retracted this, but what does this exactly mean? 

It means that I was referencing MR56 D1.

[|TJ| he/him]

2 hours ago, Tani said:

it's called playing.

I - *sigh*  

23 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

It means that I was referencing MR56 D1.

Thaid, we aren't supposed to talk about ongoing games, that's one of the rules. 

Consolidating TUA as I probably won't be up for rollover. 

Edit: Tani

Edited February 17, 2022 by |TJ|

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

5 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

I - *sigh*  

Thaid, we aren't supposed to talk about ongoing games, that's one of the rules. 

Consolidating TUA as I probably won't be up for rollover. 

Edit: Tani

we aren't?

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

4 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I kind of disagree with all of these points xD I don't get what you mean about Duralumin being an IKYK- I don't think we can assign alignments based on metal choice for any metal, ever (unless like, there's only one player who takes Nicrosil and then there's two elim kills or something :P) and I do think Duralumin is equally valuable for both teams (maybe more so for the village, since there's the incentive to keep it out of elim hands.)

Chromium I think is definitely better for the village in almost every way so I really don't understand that :P. It's hard for me to come up with an elim use for Chromium that'd be worth it over other metals they could get.

There isn't Steel to go for, right now. If there's a metal that's an IKYK I think it is Steel because of what you described, but the elims can always go for it in the night. If an elim is relatively trusted, and gets the Steel, they can kill a villager and just go "Oops :)" so I again don't think we can parse out alignments that way.

Does it make sense if this TUA post makes me want to unvote JNV? :P. I don't think I can read and react to this TUA post the way I did and keep my vote on JNV over TUA, if that makes sense, but I also don't have a preference between them and don't have enough info to decide.

Every mention of chromium should be replaced with nicrosil.

I agree that Duralumin is equal, but the elims can just use Nicrosil to accomplish the same effect, so they don't want it as much. For villagers, Nicrosil has far less use, since we can never be sure if anyone but ourselves is village, so we're always risking giving an elim an alibi action with the elim kill or two elim kills, even if they probably won't double down.

You said pretty much what I said. I don't think anyone who kills a villager with Steel will get to use it a second time, just in case.

I feel like you just don't want to vote JNV, and I'm an excuse.

Quote

You object... to my village read? xD One, it's not that you're free with info, it's the type of info you're free with. Two, and more importantly, I was providing context to my gut read. How I felt when I read that post. 

You didn't say that and I don’t object to your gut, I object to the written reasoning. It has caught me as an elim in one game and as a villager in another, therefore the reasoning is flawed. 

Quote

Unnecessarily defensive comment from TUA

How is that defensive? I might agree with aggressive, but defensive? I hate that reasoning because the reverse has been fifty/fifty on me, and it isn't necessarily true.

I responding to Mat and TJ doesn't really have a reason.

Edited February 17, 2022 by The Unknown Aon

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Hey ima join the train on TUA. also Stick.

[Quivil]

2 hours ago, Bort said:

Then I believe we have a deal... Would you like a chocolate chip, or raspberry swirl beardnut?

Tani.

Also, sorry I got your gender wrong

Raspberry swirl sounds fun.  (and it's not unexpected on an online place.)

[Mat he/him]

24 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

we aren't?

From the SE General Rules & Etiquette Policy:

Quote

If you’re currently playing in a game, do not talk about that game with another living player (outside permitted PMs including the GM), or in any public place where another player might see. Be cautious even when talking to dead players or spectators who know more than you do about the state of the game, and if you are the non-living-player in that scenario be very careful not to give anything away.

 

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Aon said:

Every mention of chromium should be replaced with nicrosil.

That does make more sense, yes. I think they're about equal as long as villagers actually target other villagers, but that's the trick with Nicrosil. The elims can always go with their teammates, but the nice thing about that is an obvious double negative effect can be decently telling, depending on a few things. There's the benefit of just keeping it out of elim hands, too.

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Aon said:

You said pretty much what I said.

About Steel? I thought I said almost the opposite xD I thought you implied that we could get alignments based on who gets/uses Steel ("Anyone except the most trusted person grabbing it would be an instant tell") and I disagreed ("I again don't think we can parse out alignments that way.") but I easily could have misinterpreted you.

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Aon said:

I feel like you just don't want to vote JNV, and I'm an excuse.

I don't want to vote JNV, if I wanted to vote JNV I'd be voting JNV :P. If I had never wanted to vote JNV, I wouldn't have.

Edit: Based on Thaid's playstyle I cannot justify myself reading that vote as elimmy but man it looks elimmy

Edited February 17, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

From the SE General Rules & Etiquette Policy:

 

That does make more sense, yes. I think they're about equal as long as villagers actually target other villagers, but that's the trick with Nicrosil. The elims can always go with their teammates, but the nice thing about that is an obvious double negative effect can be decently telling, depending on a few things. There's the benefit of just keeping it out of elim hands, too.

About Steel? I thought I said almost the opposite xD I thought you implied that we could get alignments based on who gets/uses Steel ("Anyone except the most trusted person grabbing it would be an instant tell") and I disagreed ("I again don't think we can parse out alignments that way.") but I easily could have misinterpreted you.

I don't want to vote JNV, if I wanted to vote JNV I'd be voting JNV :P. If I had never wanted to vote JNV, I wouldn't have.

mkay ima go read those now.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

mkay ima go read those now.

Good idea.

14 minutes ago, The Unknown Aon said:

You didn't say that and I don’t object to your gut, I object to the written reasoning. It has caught me as an elim in one game and as a villager in another, therefore the reasoning is flawed. 

How is that defensive? I might agree with aggressive, but defensive? I hate that reasoning because the reverse has been fifty/fifty on me, and it isn't necessarily true.

I responding to Mat and TJ doesn't really have a reason.

TUA

TJ's vote was to consolidate trains, and now that Thaid's pushed yours over I feel better off of it than on it. I don't really want to exe you based on a rule disagreement and I get a villager vibe overall from this response.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

About Steel? I thought I said almost the opposite xD I thought you implied that we could get alignments based on who gets/uses Steel ("Anyone except the most trusted person grabbing it would be an instant tell") and I disagreed ("I again don't think we can parse out alignments that way.") but I easily could have misinterpreted you.

I think that if Steel appears during the day the village will discuss who should best grab it and the consensus will, if anyone else does, especially without saying so in thread, everyone will be after them. You misinterpreted me, but I didn't fully voice it do to a lack of time.

[Mat he/him]

Just now, The Unknown Aon said:

I think that if Steel appears during the day the village will discuss who should best grab it and the consensus will, if anyone else does, especially without saying so in thread, everyone will be after them. You misinterpreted me, but I didn't fully voice it do to a lack of time.

That could work, but it's also kind of dangerous because there's always gonna be rogue players of both alignments. It's probably the best course of action but I do think it'd be fun if everyone went for it and it was literally RNGd between the entire player list :P.

I really hope Steel appears during the Day and not the Night xD

[Steeldancer he/him]

12 hours ago, The Unknown Aon said:

Steel is so sus

oi
edit: does everyone have to keep capitalizing Steel? It's confusing. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Steeldancer