Long Game 20: Warcamp Enigmas

[Alvron]

No idea - but things don't add up either way...if we take it your reading, it has nothing to do with Wilson's level of suspicion; if we take it my way, there's question about how yafe got the info. Actually, now that I write it out like this, your reading sounds more reasonable. It makes my arguments against Trell a little weaker, but I think they still hold.

Actually it does.  Yafe used his/her death cry to list his/her suspicions but the only reasoning was for Wilson and only that s/he got a Spanreed.  And I'm not seeing how Yafe getting a Spanreed makes Wilson suspicious when Wilson still has hers.  And if we go by your read then Wilson killed a thief with a Bow which means she could've been the one to kill Orlok which would clear her.

[little wilson]

Okay, now that I'm off work and can reply to each of these appropriately...

 

I hit Wilson, because after that death cry that said Kill Wilson, everybody was so willing to dismiss it as strong suspicion, while the one who wrote it (gimme a sec) had clearly showed us of their capability to express mere suspicion in appropriate language in that very same death cry.
Edit: Also, nobody has any reason to say Kill X or X is 100% evil in a death cry, unless they have really reliable confirmation (Yafe did say Lopen had a high probability of being evil, while he called the other 3 definitely evil. That means he was sure (not just a high probability, which is all he could hope for with the reasoning he gave us in his death cry, he was actually, definitely, sure) that those 3 were evil. Perhaps he thought elaborating on his definite proof might reveal sensitive information? Honestly, I'm not quite sure.

 

Sure, they do. I would've said the same thing three weeks ago, but after having watched the 48 hours of the Championship I watched, I noticed a number of things about their accusations of other players. Namely, that they speak in absolutes. For example, one of the people there said that Hael was definitely mafia. This player had been aggressive the entire previous cycle and, refusing to set forth any evidence for Hael's being mafia, he said that he bet all of his town cred on Hael being evil. Guess what? Hael wasn't.

 

The important thing to notice here is that in this game, it's practically impossible to absolutely, 100% confirm somebody as being a Noble or being a Ghostblood (at least, if you don't spot them making the Ghostblood kill). If yafe or Luna had any true, valid suspicions on me, with evidence to back them up, they would've mentioned it in their deathcry. But they didn't. (I'll get to yafe's spanreed comment in a bit)

 

 

Thanks for letting us know. Obviously, she didn't die. Since she hasn't come forward about it (and has had a great deal of opportunity to, and no reason not to), I expect that somebody protected her with a Painrial last night.

 

I would appreciate if the person who did that did not reveal that to the thread, though. The last thing we need is to lose a protection item while it is charging.

 

I would assume this is correct, as I was not informed that I was attacked.

 

 

That last one definitely could happen in a free-PM game, but I'm guessing they didn't get anyone to tell it to. So they just directly told us to kill them instead, hoping that they would be heeded, as is the right course of action for a cleared (by death) player. But we didn't.

 

Except that they have literally no evidence. You're basically shooting people based on someone else's suspicions, and while they're confirmed good, it doesn't they're confirmed right. There's a difference. A very, very big difference.

 

 

I'm curious as to why you getting a spanreed makes Wilson suspicious.  Wilson still has hers as my PM with her is still open so I would guess that it came from someone else.  I know you can't answer as you're dead but I'm still interested to know the answer.   You killed the thief or so you imply so it's possible that you got the spanreed from the body.

 

Yes, I still have that Spanreed. I have not gained any other Spanreed since then. The Spanreed I'm using was passed to me, by Joe, on Night 2--and actually, while I'm on this topic, I've already informed a few people during the night about this, but 2 people passed me Spanreeds on Night 2. Joe has confessed to being one of those. I'm not sure who the second is, but if you could tell me in my PM with you, that would be excellent. If you stay quiet, I will have to assume that the second Spanreed came from the Ghostbloods, trying to get rid of their Spanreed. That second Spanreed is gone, no longer in the game, since I couldn't hold two of the exact same item at once.

 

Moving past that, if I'd killed the thief (which I didn't), I would've received a spanreed at the start of this day turn. Not last day turn. The thief just barely died. Yet, I was PMing last night. So obviously I had a Spanreed. That I could use.

 

Now, onto the thief's death. I know exactly how killed the thief and got that Spanreed. I'm not going to say who it was--I'll leave that up to them--but I didn't get that Spanreed. They did. Beyond that, even if I had killed the thief, the thief died to a Grandbow. Not the Ghostblood kill. So why does the Spanreed have any relevance to my guilt or innocence? A clue: it doesn't. We already know that the Noble Soulcaster redirected Orlok's item creation to Trel, giving him the Grandbow he was making, which Trel proceeded to shoot me with. If I had a Grandbow, I either started with it, or an Artifabrian who isn't Orlok, made it for me. So why does that make me suspicious?

 

Conclusion: Yafe doesn't know what he's talking about. Likely because he didn't read the rules completely or hasn't kept up with the game as much as he probably should've if he's going to go around making grand accusations like that.

 

 

I went back to look at our dead people - 3 of them expressed suspicion of Wilson in a Death Cry. Of these, one - Luna - had an emotion bracelet. So it is plausible that Luna could have scanned Wilson and seen a suspicious action. Although - may I make a request? If you have slam-dunk, 100% evidence that someone is evil, just put the evidence in your Death Cry. We don't need to know the rest of your suspicions - in fact, you should have been telling us them in the thread. If you have convictable evidence (like an alerter telling you who killed you, or an emotion bracelet telling you who made a Ghostblood kill), just put that in the Death cry and use whatever space is left for less important stuff.

 

Since Luna didn't do that, we don't know whether her admonition to "Kill Wilson" is based off of something she saw or just her suspicion. We don't know who she used her emotion bracelet on. I would really like to know, because if she saw something suspicious we could have lynched Wilson last cycle and learned about it.

 

So, going forward, if you know something, tell us what it is you know! Don't just tell us what to do, because without telling us why we have no way of knowing whether it was gut suspicion or something more.

 

I'm going just going to say right now that Luna didn't see anything suspicious. Wanna know why? Because Night 1 I heired someone and I used an item--and I've already informed a couple of people exactly what that item was, what I did with it, and the results. There was nothing suspicious about my use of that item.

 

Night 2, I turned on my temporary spanreed. That was it. That was actually exactly what I did last night as well. I guess if turning on a spanreed makes me a Ghostblood, then lynch me. Last time I checked, it was killing somebody with the Ghostblood kill that's the real indicator. Or being caught with suspicious items--which I don't have. That's another thing: there are people who know exactly what I have right now. I'm not going to announce my items here and now, but I've got nothing to hide.

 

I do not understand the accusations coming down on me from the deathcries, because I've done practically nothing this game beyond PMing people. That's it. It's not possible for anyone to see me doing anything suspicious because I haven't done anything suspicious.

 

Next time, Trel, that you want to attack somebody based on an unfounded deathcry, you might want to get some evidence to back it up, otherwise, you'll just end up looking like you're making an excuse to kill somebody, which is exactly what I would expect the Ghostbloods to be doing.

 

[DeathClutch19]

Itachi stood out in the court yard, the death of more of his friends had pushed him passed his limits. With anger floding every cell in his body Itachi called out"Brightlady Kenara!! Get out here now!". 

 

Itachi grabbed his blade and pointed it toward Kenara "You and Me are settling our differences right here, right now".He looked around as a crowd of people surrounded the two. His hands were shaking and his breath heavy, it had been awhile since Itachi had been in a fight and this was his first fight to the death.

 

After waiting for his opponent to get he weapons in order, Itachi started with the formalities "I hereby declare a duelbetween myself and Brightlady Kenara". Itachi had spent enough time waiting around, now was the time for action. Now was the time exact his revenge.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I Declare a Duel Between Wilson and Myself

[Elbereth]

I would assume this is correct, as I was not informed that I was attacked.

I think you missed this clarification:

 

If someone is protected by a Painrial and attacked, they will be informed and so will the Painrial holder.

So... Was Trel's attack redirected, then? I can't think of another possibility off the top of my head.

 

Except that they have literally no evidence. You're basically shooting people based on someone else's suspicions, and while they're confirmed good, it doesn't they're confirmed right. There's a difference. A very, very big difference.

This. So much this.

DC... why?

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Well, I didn't expect to be saying this, but: thanks, GBs 

 

It is also absolutely certain (unless Elb or Wilson was lying about the Spanreed being only one cycle - and closed all of the PMs to make it look like it was) that Wilson got her spanreed from a different Artifabrian than Elbereth. At the moment, Orlok's T1 item creation is unaccounted for. It could have been Wilson's spanreed. Or else we have 3 (or more) artifabrians. I'd like to see other players come forward if they received an item on N1 or N2 to clear this point up. From my perspective, it doesn't seem like a great risk - the items have all passed out of the game by now, so I can't see any incentive to hide them.

Elodin redirected Orlok's action to himself N1 if I recall correctly, so Wilson's spanreed definitely didn't come from him.

 

I'd say it's at least a bit of a risk. Since that'll get suspicion on you as well, just because the item you received could have been from Orlok. Or, alternatively, you're an eliminator and want to see Wilson lynched by mistake. I feel like they'd be very happy with that.

If we were trying to find Orlok's other item, I would still say that was worthwhile. (EB and Spy information can be used to vet the claims to an extent.) I find the phrasing of that second sentence interesting (read: suspicious), though.

 

 

I Declare a Duel Between Wilson and Myself

DC

[little wilson]

Eh, well, thanks to DC, what I was trying to do isn't going to work now anyway. I have Plate, which took a hit last night. The Plate is the reason I was being as active as I was. I was trying to bait the Ghostbloods into attacking me. Instead, Trel attacked me and damaged my Plate (though I'm not certain he's not a Ghostblood, so my gambit may have worked. Who knows?). I was hoping to not reveal my Plate so I could still get my plot to work, but it looks like, depending on the likely results of this duel, that my Plate will be Shattered from the lynch.

 

I really don't see why you've been gunning after me as hard as you have DC. I was willing to ignore you for the rest of the game, because you're still pissing me the hell off. But fine. If it's a duel you want, it's a duel you'll get. DeathClutch.

[DeathClutch19]

DC... why?

Because Elbereth, I think Wilson is evil and this seems to be the most effective way to get her lynched. If you all happen to lynch me, once you find out i'm Good this game should be a little more clear on who is evil.

 

 

 

DC

Can I ask why??

[Mailliw73]

This Duel is approved. The Stormfather presides over this. Duel mightily. Edited May 3, 2016 by Mailliw73

[Elbereth]

If we were trying to find Orlok's other item, I would still say that was worthwhile. (EB and Spy information can be used to vet the claims to an extent.) I find the phrasing of that second sentence interesting (read: suspicious), though.

DC

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying the search isn't worthwhile. I was just saying that I doubt people will come forward claiming to have gotten an Artifabrian item, because that's suspicious (if they're a villager) and draws pressure off Wilson (if they're an eliminator and she's not).

[TheMightyLopen]

Sigh. Well I can't say I think this is a good move DC. I don't have the time right now, but I'm gonna go through everything these 2 have done, and then I'll decide where to place my vote. I thought DC was village because of his activity this game, but I really don't like this duel and the way he's gone after Wilson for seemingly nothing. This kills lynch discussion by making us focus on 2 players. I was hoping we could have a much better Day Turn this Cycle, but I guess this way players will be more likely to actually vote?

 

DC, could you lay out your case for why you're so suspicious of Wilson?

 

Edit: Actually El, because Orloks role Action was redirected to himself on N1, anyone who claims to have received an Artifabrian item on N1 would have no reason to be afraid to reveal if they're village.

Edited May 3, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[DeathClutch19]

Sigh. Well I can't say I think this is a good move DC. I don't have the time right now, but I'm gonna go through everything these 2 have done, and then I'll decide where to place my vote. I thought DC was village because of his activity this game, but I really don't like this duel and the way he's gone after Wilson for seemingly nothing. This kills lynch discussion by making us focus on 2 players. I was hoping we could have a much better Day Turn this Cycle, but I guess this way players will be more likely to actually vote?

 

DC, could you lay out your case for why you're so suspicious of Wilson?

 

Edit: Actually El, because Orloks role Action was redirected to himself on N1, anyone who claims to have received an Artifabrian item on N1 would have no reason to be afraid to reveal if they're village.

Well we haven't had a good lynch in awhile and hopefully this will give people incentive to vote

 

But sure I would gladly,

 

First off I don't care if the death cry suspicions are not explained if that many people are all confirmed good and are suspicious of the same person that tells me something just isn't right. 

 

Further Wilson has been very defensive when she has been called out as evil, now I haven't played with Wilson before but being defensive in my opinion is something an eliminator does.

 

Next, in our PMs Wilson just stood out to me as Evil, she got upset with me because I tried to bait her to see if she was evil. Why get upset if your not evil then you have nothing to worry about. In fact the whole thing about me pissing her off is just odd to me. I don't understand why she is so against me when I am trying to find the evil team

 

Finally, Wilson said herself she thinks I am good, yet she has made no further attempts to contact me since 2 turns ago, if were both good then why not work together to win the game, unless of course she's evil..

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Well, I have a few things to say.

 

Firstly, i'm a tad suspicious of Wilson currently. I was trying to work out why someone would redirect a kill to me, and I realised that I had told Wilson that I had an alerter.  She was the only  one i had mentioned any of my items too so the fact someone redirected a kill to me instead of attacking directly makes me really suspicious, even though she has denied knowing about anyone being a kill role.

Although, sure, it could have easily have been someone redirecting it to someone at random, and i'm reading into my attack too much, but hey, it's a theory. I haven't had many of those yet. It might not be the case but it's something. I had other arguments against her but i've since resolved them after discussing them with her in pm first.

Oh, and i can confirm that no one else could have known about my role/items. I had an alerter on, and Joes blade was the first thing to target me.

Added on to the fact that i feel like i've had a suspicious read on Wilson for a while does make me think that this could be a likely situation.

Added on to the fact that for the majority of the game i've read DC as probably being good.

Though I will say that in my pm with her, Wilson did seem reasonably genuine, which made my suspicion of her falter a bit, though, when i initially accused her in pm, I will say that her reaction did surprise me a bit, and did make me a bit more suspicious initially as she didn't want to defend herself that much to me and more just demanded that i accuse her in thread already... 

 

Another thing is that Wilson has claimed shardplate. If we lynch DC and are wrong, we are going to have to wait until the next lynch. If we kill Wilson, and are wrong, DC can probably just be hit by a vig.

 

Also, i think that this duel is a good thing. I feel like our past lynches haven't been that substantial, and whatever the outcome of this duel, we will learn much useful knowledge imo. (and its kind of about time the DC/Wilson thing was resolved...)

 

So, yea, I know i haven't exactly mentioned many thoughts about DC in this post, but i'm really not that suspicious of him, so my votes going on to Wilson.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Burnt Spaghetti

[little wilson]

Finally, Wilson said herself she thinks I am good, yet she has made no further attempts to contact me since 2 turns ago, if were both good then why not work together to win the game, unless of course she's evil..

 

 

Yeah, because I didn't care to talk to the person being ultra-aggressive in a way that really irritates me. I decided that I would ignore you for the rest of the game because I don't like how I respond to ultra-aggression. I was being preventative, because I knew if I kept butting heads with you, Meta would have to intervene. You may not understand why I'm so ticked off at you, but that doesn't lessen the very fact that I am. Be condescending all you want with your comments about "Why you even mad, bruh?" But it doesn't matter, because the fact is, I am, and you don't care. I know you don't care, so why even bother trying to play the game with you?

 

EDIT: Burnt, I already explained why I reacted that way. You said you were in a tunnel. In my experience, discussing tunnels with the person in a tunnel doesn't get anywhere due to confirmation bias. I decided that if you were really set on tunneling, I wasn't going to bother defending myself in a PM with you, but rather in the thread with everyone. There's a difference. You then explained that you were still open to other views and trying to understand what may have happened, so clearly the tunnel wasn't as much of a tunnel as you'd initially stated that it was.

Edited May 3, 2016 by little wilson

[Mark IV]

Wow... this has been an err... unusual day.

I think I'd agree with Lopen. Regardless of who loses this duel, the winner still has to face certain death from the Ghostbloods. Either way, bad idea. DC, I just hope this isn't personal. Your emoticons in the previous post make me believe it isn't, but I'd like some conformation.

And why is it that you place players in such a dilemma? Now whom do I vote for?

I'd believed Wilson to be suspicious because her posts had seemed manipulative. Upon closer inspection, that didn't seem the case. Her feud with DC felt heavy with emotional appeal, but when I asked (confronted?) Her with it, she told me she didn't use emotional appeal as a tool.

DC, I'll admit I haven't assessed as much. But, I get a village reading on him too. His aggression with Wilson had brought a lot of attention to him. But then after it'd died down, he brought it up again. Not an eliminator move, IMO. If suspicion on you has died down, then why bring it up again?

Will lynching Wilson here kill her? And DC, you'vegot a shard blade?

Maill, do the normal lynch rules still apply here?

EDIT:

Another thing is that Wilson has claimed shardplate. If we lynch DC and are wrong, we are going to have to wait until the next lynch. If we kill Wilson, and are wrong, DC can probably just be hit by a vig.

~Burnt

Why assume if one is good, the other is evil? This has stemmed from friction between playstyle, if I'm not mistaken, and not from conclusive proof of someone's alignment. That'd be a good eliminator move - "lynch this person. If they're good, lynch the other one." In the end, we'll find both of them good, and will have lost two good players.

Either way, I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt. But, I thought I'd bring this up.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mark IV

[Alvron]

Further Wilson has been very defensive when she has been called out as evil, now I haven't played with Wilson before but being defensive in my opinion is something an eliminator does.

Actually in Wilson's case it's the opposite.  In LG14 she was very defensive when I called her out for being evil and she was good while in LG15b she just went with it and was evil.  It has happened in every game where she's been up for the lynch.  The fact that Wilson has been so defensive tells me she's a Noble.  Of course Wilson could be aware of this so it's possible that she is purposely changing her style but I doubt it.  I think it's ingrained in her and it's just something she does.

[DeathClutch19]

Yeah, because I didn't care to talk to the person being ultra-aggressive in a way that really irritates me. I decided that I would ignore you for the rest of the game because I don't like how I respond to ultra-aggression. I was being preventative, because I knew if I kept butting heads with you, Meta would have to intervene. You may not understand why I'm so ticked off at you, but that doesn't lessen the very fact that I am. Be condescending all you want with your comments about "Why you even mad, bruh?" But it doesn't matter, because the fact is, I am, and you don't care. I know you don't care, so why even bother trying to play the game with you?

You think im being ultra-aggressive? Wow. That is quite the exaggeration. I'll admit I was aggressive but not nearly as much as I could be. Also, I do care, I tend to like to know the reason I piss people off to avoid the situation again.

 

But this still does not change my opinion on you..

[Seonid]

So, with the revelation that Orlok's action was redirected to himself N1, this confirms that we have a 2nd living artifabrian. They could be good, they could be evil, but one thing is for sure, Wilson wasn't given the spanreed N1 by Orlok to try and get information out of us. With that out of the way, we're free to take Wilson on her own actions and statements.

 

My PM with her screams Village to me. Irritated Village, sure, but Village. So I'm inclined to trust her now.

 

I really don't think that DC is evil either, I think that he's just misguided in his tunneling on Wilson. So now we're locked into choosing between two (more than likely) village players for the lynch. Thanks, DC...

 

I'd love to abstain from this vote, but there's quite a bit at stake. And Deathclutch is again falling victim to Trelagist's fallacy. Just because dead good people were suspicious of you doesn't mean that they were right! I died for this exact reason in LG14. Wilson was convinced that I was evil, and had told her trusted group that I was. She died - she was good. Her trusted group lynched me. I was good too.

 

Being dead doesn't make your suspicions infallible, and to believe otherwise is fallacious.

 

About whether Wilson is being defensive - sure she is. But then, so was I when I was falsely accused, in a situation that put the village at an extreme disadvantage if they were to lynch me. I got very angry - seriously, you should go read the game. It didn't mean that I was evil, just that I was very irritated by the way things were going. Irritation isn't a good sign of alignment.

 

Again, I really don't think that DC is evil and I'd rather not lynch either of our options, but I think that if I have to choose between the two, the village is better off if DC dies today than if Wilson does.

[Burnt Spaghetti]

EDIT: Burnt, I already explained why I reacted that way. You said you were in a tunnel. In my experience, discussing tunnels with the person in a tunnel doesn't get anywhere due to confirmation bias. I decided that if you were really set on tunneling, I wasn't going to bother defending myself in a PM with you, but rather in the thread with everyone. There's a difference. You then explained that you were still open to other views and trying to understand what may have happened, so clearly the tunnel wasn't as much of a tunnel as you'd initially stated that it was.

Sure, I get that, i'm just saying that initially it surprised me.Tbh i do feel like i cooled off on my tunneling as we discussed it. My initial pm was definitely pure tunnel though. But then you poked holes in my argument so i revised it and it became much less of a tunnel.

 

~Burnt

Why assume if one is good, the other is evil? This has stemmed from friction between playstyle, if I'm not mistaken, and not from conclusive proof of someone's alignment. That'd be a good eliminator move - "lynch this person. If they're good, lynch the other one." In the end, we'll find both of them good, and will have lost two good players.

Either way, I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt. But, I thought I'd bring this up.

 I suppose that's true enough. I would hazard a guess about my assuming that being due to my tunneling on Wilson. But you do have a good point.

Tho i was more saying that Wilson would be more annoying to try and kill otherwise but ok.

Though i guess, for all we know, they could both be good...

 

Actually in Wilson's case it's the opposite.  In LG14 she was very defensive when I called her out for being evil and she was good while in LG15b she just went with it and was evil.  It has happened in every game where she's been up for the lynch.  The fact that Wilson has been so defensive tells me she's a Noble.  Of course Wilson could be aware of this so it's possible that she is purposely changing her style but I doubt it.  I think it's ingrained in her and it's just something she does.

Hm. That is true...

 

 

My PM with her screams Village to me. Irritated Village, sure, but Village. So I'm inclined to trust her now.

I will say that my pms with her sound much the same. She definitely sounded genuinely annoyed. Does this make me think she's a villager? Sure, maybe a little, doesn't change the fact i'm suspicious of her though.

[Mailliw73]

Rules for the duel:

If there is a tie, both duelists will die.

There is only a one-vote minimum for one of them to die.

Any votes on players other than the duelists will be counted as a no vote.

[Mark IV]

Though I'm not very suspicious of Wilson, I think this needs no reminding. Wilson admittedly gets good at manipulation from the eliminators' side. So, her village front in PMs might be an act. I'm not sure though. I mean she could just be a villager (look at me, calling people rural for no good reason ).

Seeing as I haven't played a game with her before, I have no ruling on this. I just thought I'd point this out and get you peoples' opinions. I'm sure someone else has thought of this before me.

And before I forget, Seonid, sorry for that vote on you. I'd forgotten you had already said you wouldn't be able to be active untiL cycle 4...

Burnt, if we wanted to kill Wilson, we could just ask one shard bearer to attack her while simultaneously asking the GBs to attack her too. If she's good, they'll probably want to kill her.

Now, I know that above sentence sounded suspicious, but it was just a thought. Don't kill me for it. Although you really can't this turn.

EDIT: Maill, does the death cry have to be in English? I know a language that might be a bit more compact. Probably more compact. I'm not sure. Or would that be cheating?

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mark IV

[Seonid]

You voted for me, Mark? I must have missed that. Either way you're forgiven. This is my preferred level of activity - just for everyone's reference. Well - technically my activity comes in bursts; but this is how I tend to be when I have the time.

 

Your point about Wilson is well-taken. Honestly, though, my vote isn't about suspicion. It's about helpfulness. A good Wilson will be more helpful to the village than a good Deathclutch. I'd rather not kill either, but DC forced the issue. So since I don't suspect either one enough to want to lynch them, I'll pick the lesser of the two evils presented to me as a choice.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Can I ask why??

At the time, because I had reasonably good evidence from PMs (which I will not go into) that Wilson is a villager, and had nothing similar for you. Now that you've laid out your reasons, it appears most of your suspicion of Wilson is based on what I would consider her normal playstyle, and I still have that reasonably good evidence. Overall you're definitely the better choice for the lynch.

[DeathClutch19]

You voted for me, Mark? I must have missed that. Either way you're forgiven. This is my preferred level of activity - just for everyone's reference. Well - technically my activity comes in bursts; but this is how I tend to be when I have the time.

Your point about Wilson is well-taken. Honestly, though, my vote isn't about suspicion. It's about helpfulness. A good Wilson will be more helpful to the village than a good Deathclutch. I'd rather not kill either, but DC forced the issue. So since I don't suspect either one enough to want to lynch them, I'll pick the lesser of the two evils presented to me as a choice.

So your punishing me for pushing the village to actually do something? Good to know..

[Mark IV]

So your punishing me for pushing the village to actually do something? Good to know..

More like forcing the village to do something bad. Choosing between killing a villager and a villager and no one is bad as it is, but forcing us to kill atleast one of them? That's definitely worse. But, what's done is done. No use lamenting over it.

So, let me get this straight - all you're saying is that Wilson is evil based on your conversation with her.

Wilson says she wants nothing to do with you as you seem super-aggressive.

You start duel to force the issue and get her lynched hopefully.

Is that it or am I missing something?

[Elbereth]

How has the village not been doing things? We've had a lynch every day this game. Which is more than can be said for certain other games recently. There have been at least three kills every night, including N1, and that's definitely not the work of the eliminators alone. What do you define as doing something if we haven't been all this time? To my mind, you've only forced us to make a choice between bad and worse.

If I were to vote, I'd vote for you, DC, because Wilson's play seems more useful to the game. But I will choose to abstain, I think, because what I'd really like to happen is for neither of you to be lynched today. Probably won't happen, I'm aware. But it's what I think should happen, and I'll stand by that.