Long Game 20: Warcamp Enigmas

[Nyali she/her]

Arisia, crouching low, held her breath as she timidly peered around the corner. The corridor was empty, as it had been the last seventeen times she checked (she counted!). Earlier, it had been quite busy, but visits to the mysterious rooms seemed to have tapered off for a time. All this intrigue stuff was exciting! And scary. But she was safe, right? She had friends to look out for her, and they were trustworthy. Completely. Err, right? Maybe not? What if she was being played for the King's Fool? She certainly didn't want to be the Fool. The Fool was too weird. She wasn't weird. She was dignified.

 

Absently, she took another bite of her chouta as she thought. All of the suspects were just so suspicious! Well, except the ones who were trustworthy. Which were the same people, most of the time. So, suspicious isn't the right word. She considered. Susworthy? No, that wasn't it. Truspicious! Yes, the other suspects were all truspicious.

 

She knew she wasn't a very good judge of character, and that made things hard. She could see the good in people no matter who they were, and she just wanted to trust them. After all, there was that time when she was little when she caught one of the maids stealing some silverware. The maid, startled to see her, said that the cutlery were tools of the voidbringers and she had to take them away before more people found out about them, and Arisia wasn't to tell anyone because if enough people knew their true nature, they'd wake up and start a murder spree. That maid wasn't a very good liar. But she was so nice! Someone that nice couldn't be a thief, could they?

 

"Brightness, what in Kelek's name are you doing?" a voice said behind her.

 

She whirled to see a guard with a very confused look on his face. "Shhhh!" she said, menacingly, a finger to her lips. "I'm being stealthy. You never know what people are up to around here, so I decided to find out."

 

He raised an eyebrow. "And there's something suspicious about this particular corridor?" he asked.

 

"Of course!" she said, exasperated. "There are killers around, and most of the people who could be suspects have snuck down this hallway quickly, waited in one of those rooms over there for a short time, and then come out. Other people too! No one stays long, or leaves holding anything, and they never go in at the same time."

 

He continued to look at her with a half confused, half amused look on his face. "Is this some sort of joke, Brightness?"

 

"No!" she said, "It's suspicious!" She waved the remains of her chouta toward him menacingly.

 

"Brightness, this hallway leads to the privy," he said.

 

"Oh," she said as her face slowly turned red. "Oh," she said again as she moved to stand up. She brushed off her dress, then gathered her notebook where she had been logging the comings and goings to the rooms. She put the notebook in her safepouch, nestling it between a few apples she had been saving for later. Without another word to the guard or glance in his direction, she turned and walked away. Did the King's Fool take on apprentices? she wondered to herself. I'd certainly have an... interesting resume.

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

If that's the case, I can quite honestly say I never want to play a game with you again, regardless of your alignment or mine.

Such anger, my feelings are hurt

I would never say such a hateful thing Wilson

Honestly, why are you even mad bruh??

[Macen he/him]

Such anger, my feelings are hurt

I would never say such a hateful thing Wilson

Honestly, why are you even mad bruh??

I think it comes down to this:

Some of the early games we had here, people focused too much on winning and would do the "Dictator" play style and WOULD win. The problem with that is, one person has fun as the dictator, while the other 10 villagers are bored as rust and don't have fun. It's not fun to have 0 knowledge and just wait around to have someone tell you to do something - and it started to kill the community because people stopped playing (I did myself for a bit).

That's why a lot of the people who have been playing for a while try to avoid any sort of Ruling groups (i forgot what we used to call it?) where one group of people has all of the power and decides everything.

[DeathClutch19 he/him]

I think it comes down to this:

Some of the early games we had here, people focused too much on winning and would do the "Dictator" play style and WOULD win. The problem with that is, one person has fun as the dictator, while the other 10 villagers are bored as rust and don't have fun. It's not fun to have 0 knowledge and just wait around to have someone tell you to do something - and it started to kill the community because people stopped playing (I did myself for a bit).

That's why a lot of the people who have been playing for a while try to avoid any sort of Ruling groups (i forgot what we used to call it?) where one group of people has all of the power and decides everything.

I have nothing to do with that. Soooo yeah

Im just saying, she proposed the idea not me..

[Arraenae]

Mail, can I join the spec doc for this?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Well, I haven't had a chance to go through the thread like I really want to yet, and I don't think I'm gonna be able to tonight either. I'm extremely tired, so I don't have the energy to go through however many posts there are, and then try to make sense of it. Maybe tomorrow?

 

I'm gonna put my vote on AliasSheep for his vote on DC last Cycle, which to me seemed like he was just following a popular opinion at the time, and because he hasn't posted yet this Cycle I don't think. Hopefully he'll respond, but even if he doesn't, and I'm able to go through the thread tomorrow, this vote may change if I see a more likely suspect for GB(I thought about voting on Burnt just for fun, but I figured I'd leave her be...for now!  (Note: not saying I'm suspicious of her, just messing with her a little.)).

[Kasimir he/him]

I stand by my suspicion of Kas. I can't pinpoint exactly what it is other than his playstyle seems off to me and I honestly think he is a baddie.

So what is it exactly? 'His playstyle seems off'? Could it be, perhaps, that I'm low-activity in this game, which I've already stated (twice!) before this game will happen, due to RL commitments?

Because you know what guys? I've found something very interesting. Every single time I've played a game and been unable to commit to my usual levels of hyperactivity, someone has always cited some mysterious, unanalysable gut as to my being evil? Gee, who'd have thought? Every. Single. Storming. Time. Without. Fail. The same claim comes up--as long as I can't be fully active. And here I thought it was okay to play a game and be minimally active, but I guess I'm wrong, huh Nice to know, guys. Next time if you don't like a player being unable to fully commit, then when they say as much before the start of the game, maybe you should bloody open your storming mouths and just say, "Look, Kas. If you can't be active, then you shouldn't join this game." Don't waste either of our times.

Now, let's get this clear. I don't have a problem, except an epistemic one, with this kind of silly use of gut, and I certainly don't think playstyle analysis can't be used. My actual frustration here is because by now, I have seen a pattern and I find it thoroughly sickening because it implies I can't even play at less than my usual activity level without getting 'penalised' for it, as it were. Moreover, I don't see anyone else being penalised for being unable to be 'hyperactive'. Which seems to me an odious result because how the storming hells am I now expected to maintain a higher activity level then others? Is that how I'm supposed to treat SE in future? So noted, thank you very much, ladies and gents. I'll keep that in mind.

*If Macen wishes to claim that his gut is not in fact based on this disgusting pattern, then he had better come up with some more substantial grounding as to what displeases him about my playstyle. Of course, he may always simply bite the bullet and agree that his gut is based on a reasonable explanation for my current low-commitment playstyle, even though I have already stated before the game that I cannot be active. At this point, I'm tempted to consider him an Eliminator looking for a cheap score since gut can't be held accountable for error (you don't, after all, commit as much as you do when you go all out to make a case against someone.) But then, at this point, I'm not terribly inclined to be charitable, and so I shall decline to make a judgement call.

-

Actually, something strikes me as odd about Elodin's phrasing. "N1 I redirected Orloks role action last night I attempted to redirect DCs" (Emphasis mine.) Why did he say he attempted to redirect DCs action? (For that matter, if he thought DC was good, then why even target DC in the first place? And if he failed to redirect DCs action (as I think he is implying), then how does that help him conclude DC is good?) It's kind of striking if you notice he flat-out says that he redirected Orlok's role action. So what happened? Looks to me like he's trying to tell us he got role-blocked.

-

At this point, this is the current status of my beliefs. Will provide justification if/when specifically asked:

Slightly Trust:

Nyali

Neutral:

STINK

Twei

El

Slight distrust (default):

Everyone else not mentioned

Lopen (Putting Lopen in a lower category is contingent on Joe's posting his promised analysis since I don't have the time to trawl through MR13)

Somewhat distrust:

Wilson (default)

 

-

 

I currently am not convinced by the Nyali-Wilson-DC trifecta of madness. As far as I'm concerned, it's turned into a game of he-said-she-said, since Wilson is basically accusing DC of lying, and presumably the other way around, and while one way to cut that Gordian knot might be to just lynch one of them and find out, it's...not something I really want to experiment with when it comes to them. If someone wants to go through their respective reports (and Nyali's) in search of inconsistencies, be my guest.

My vote is not doing much good on Wilson as it currently stands, and so I'll like to press Mark further on a comment:

"For now though, I believe Luna is innocent. Rather than outright defending Luna, I feel a better move would have been to seal her fate had she been up for lynch. But, both those moves are not too good in the long run."

What do you mean here?

[AliasSheep]

Well, I haven't had a chance to go through the thread like I really want to yet, and I don't think I'm gonna be able to tonight either. I'm extremely tired, so I don't have the energy to go through however many posts there are, and then try to make sense of it. Maybe tomorrow?

 

I'm gonna put my vote on AliasSheep for his vote on DC last Cycle, which to me seemed like he was just following a popular opinion at the time, and because he hasn't posted yet this Cycle I don't think. Hopefully he'll respond, but even if he doesn't, and I'm able to go through the thread tomorrow, this vote may change if I see a more likely suspect for GB(I thought about voting on Burnt just for fun, but I figured I'd leave her be...for now!  (Note: not saying I'm suspicious of her, just messing with her a little.)).

Yo.  Admittedly I should have posted a bit yesterday, but my day consisted entirely of school and sleep

 

Anyway, I voted for DC partially because they seemed suspicious over the course of my conversation with them yesterday, and partially because I didn't want to waste a vote.  That being said, not going to deny that I might have followed some popular trails, more for lack of being able to get a read on anyone else than anything (am I allowed to still pull the newness card? )

 

I'm tempted to say I'm still quite suspicious of DC, and I'm gonna add Wilson to that list as well.  This thing with PMs and Nyali (who until now I've been inclined to trust, at least to some extent), even if it does resolve to nothing, is still for the moment interesting, and I'd rather throw my lot behind both of them being suspicious than backing one or the other.  To be honest, their interactions seem like they could be cover for some actual plan going on between the two that they're trying to hide (maybe if they're both GB and one gets taken down, the other isn't associated with them but still has an excuse for acting on communications early in the game?  That only makes a little bit of sense, though, now that I think of it).  Most likely that Wilson's complaints are genuine, but I'd like to explore all possible routes, just for thoroughness' sake.

[AliasSheep]

I'd also like to add, regarding the Grandbow user, is it possible that this was a bit of misdirection?  Perhaps to cover up future kills as simple mistakes?

[Mark IV he/him]

Kas,

I apologise. My words, I now realise, aren't clear. What I'd meant by

"For now though, I believe Luna is innocent. Rather than outright defending Luna, I feel a better move would have been to seal her fate had she been up for lynch. But, both those moves are not too good in the long run."

I meant that -

1) I believe Luna is not proven guilty by this scenario (though she may actually be guilty. Just that this is not enough proof to say so)

2) The "Rather than...." part is said as a devil's advocate (sort of) where I assume both Orlok and Luna were evil, and then, I go on to see the drawbacks of Orlok defending Luna.

3) So, all I was saying was that, in my opinion, defending Luna wasn't such a good strategy incase both Luna and Orlok are evil.

4) The "seal her fate" part is just another case where Orlok could have made the final vote, doom ing Luna, and if she were evil, then he'd effectively be cleared.

5) But, both these plans were not really beneficial to the eliminators as compared to other possible thing they might have done.

Anything else?

[Nyali she/her]

Yeah, at this point, I totally agree with you, kas, about the DC/Wilson thing. It seems to just be a major play style difference, and one I've seen many times before. It's the exact reason me and a friend are not allowed to play the Battlestar Galactica board game together. (I'm the Wilson in that situation, he's the DC, which is probably why I was more inclined to trust Wilson in the beginning.)

The one thing that strikes me as odd about your post, kas, is that you seem very taken aback by a vote against you that uses "gut" as the reason for it when, yesterday, your ultimate vote (against wilson) had the same reasoning. One thing I try to do in these games is look for people being inconsistent, and I've been pointing out what appear to be inconsistencies all game. It certainly isn't incriminating by itself, but it seems to be a useful data point.

Regarding the "attempted" redirect, I think "attempted" means the redirect failed. DC claimed to have three items that he was using last night, so if Elodin successfully redirected a role action, it would have shown DC as a liar. That said, would a "role" redirect hit the GB kill action if there was one? If so, what would have been redirected if there was both a GB kill action and a Artifabrian/Spy action? In any case, I highly doubt the GBs would have had DC perform the kill if he was GB when he was so in the spotlight. So, I don't feel like the redirect failing really gives much info about DC.

Sorry, this post isn't that helpful. It's great that multiple people trust me, but my suspicions all seem off right now and I don't have anything concrete to suggest. I tjink I'm going to wait a bit for more people to post before saying more. I would love to hear from Joe and Sheep in particular.

[STINK he/him]

Can I get a spanreed please

[twelfthrootoftwo]

Why not? I grant it's an assumption, but IMO, it's perfectly logical: if I had a Soulcaster, that's exactly what I would do, because it makes Ghostbloods kill themselves, which means that I wouldn't run the risk of say, accidentally redirecting the Ghostblood to kill a Noble with a spanreed or our Shardblade wielder!

If a "Role action" is what it sounds like, I disagree, but a quote from Elodin trumps any point to be made

 

 

While I was wary of Wilson at the start of this whole thing with DC, overall it seems like DC has deliberately misrepresented some of the things that happened in that PM. Main examples (namely, things that stuck out to me in the two pages of stuff that's happened):

 

The very last thing DC said to me last night, 33 minutes before the end of the night, was that Wilson was at the very top of his suspect list and had just threatened him.

Best interpretation is that there was no threat 

I must say I do not trust her. I did decided to work with her in a plan that was conceived for a village win, which I assume is what she means by working together now, however as soon as the plan was proposed she immediately shot it down.

Wilson claims to have proposed said plan; the wording here implies DC did.

 

The first one is consistent with DC's fake-suspicion-see-what-happens tactic. The second one, to the thread in response to an issue under debate, isn't.

 

 

Regarding the "attempted" redirect, I think "attempted" means the redirect failed. DC claimed to have three items that he was using last night, so if Elodin successfully redirected a role action, it would have shown DC as a liar.

This seems plausible. An alternative explanation is that Elodin wasn't informed of the results of his action. It's certainly itneresting that Elodin added that 'attempted' qualifier, but on the other hand, based on the rest of the message, I think he might have tried to pass on more information if he had any.

 

Maill, if you die, are you given the results of your actions that night before you submit your death rattle? Also, what is a role action (for the purposes of soulcasters)?

[Nyali she/her]

I'd also like to add, regarding the Grandbow user, is it possible that this was a bit of misdirection? Perhaps to cover up future kills as simple mistakes?

That tactic makes absolutely no sense to me. The only time I could see someone doing that was if the eliminator was super obvious and/or another eliminator outright accused them and made some form of big deal about it, trying to clear them if suspicion.

The closest was me saying I was a little suspicious of him, Orlok being a GB hardly clears me, and there is no reason I'd feel I needed to be cleared - no one has voiced suspicion against me yet. That Gb wielder can't be a GB.

Plus, no one has admitted to having one (I do not - I have one item and multiple people know what it is), so that tactic further makes no sense.

(BTW, when I said I wanted to hear more from Sheep, apparently Sheep posted while I was writing that post, so, ignore that specific request!)

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

I'm going to retract my vote on Lopen. Upon a thorough reread of his posts both in this game, and in MR13, they don't seem as alike as I thought. I'm still slightly suspicious of him, but not enough to vote on him.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

A role redirect would capture spies, artifabrians, or ghostblood kills.

"You attempted to redirect ____" is the default response to a Soulcaster attempt. It doesn't inform them if they succeed or fail.

Yes, you get the results of your actions as you die.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Mailliw73

[little wilson she/her]

Okay. My thoughts on the players.

 

Right now, these are the players I think are good:

DC

Nyali

Macen

 

The ones I'm leaning toward being good:

Twei

Zas

Joe

 

Neutral (not enough comments to judge or conflicting reads):

Seonid

Elk

Sheep

Alv

Burnt

Stink

Mark

Lopen

 

I'm getting a slight bad read on:

Yafe - this is mostly gut

Elbereth - riding the line between offering advice/giving thoughts about mechanics without making any accusations or giving reads on players

Kyne - posted an analysis worthy of good!Kyne, but hasn't really had anything to say at all since then. Not that he's usually really active, but he's usually more active than this, and I don't recall him saying anything about being less active (though if he did, please correct me).

Kas - seems like he's got his own agenda when talking about the stuff with me and DC as well as the soulcaster stuff with Elodin and Orlok. I'd have to read through his posts more in-detail, but I got a bad vibe like there was something more going on there. I'd call this gut, usually, but I don't want to give him the impression it's due to his activity levels, since it's not at all.

Luna - Her reasoning for voting StrawMan over her suspicion of me reads more like a convenient excuse for an eliminator to get someone killed and have it slip by with little notice, which she notes she couldn't have done had she killed me. There would've been nothing preventing her from being killed next (or vig-killed during the night).

Trelagist - said over 36 hours ago that he would be more active from that point on, now that MR13 was over and he could focus on this game fully. Has only made 2 other posts since then, both back to back pertaining to Orlok's deathcry--and those posts were mostly pointless (the first was about how he'd worked on the code for 40 minutes and the second was about how he thought the code was a distraction). He's offered no real insight into his thoughts on the game or the players or anything at all. Usually I'd cut a new player some slack, but he was pretty active (at least behind scenes) in the MR, so I find it interesting that now that the MR is over, he's not really doing anything here.

 

My vote goes on Trelagist. I'd like an explanation for his lack of activity despite saying he would be active.

[STINK he/him]

I might analyse some peeps tomorrow, so right now I'm thinking that I'll analyse Kas and someone else if they don't get lynched. But I don't know who that someone else will be, maybe DC or Wilson? I dunno, someone that's been getting a few votes.

[Nyali she/her]

I might analyse some peeps tomorrow, so right now I'm thinking that I'll analyse Kas and someone else if they don't get lynched. But I don't know who that someone else will be, maybe DC or Wilson? I dunno, someone that's been getting a few votes.

By analyze, do you mean Spy/emotion bracelet/etc, or going over what they've posted?

[STINK he/him]

Going over what's posted.

 

Roles are overrated

[LUNA]

Okee dokee lokee, since She is suspicious of me and since I should have just gone with my gut reading, I'm voting for Wilson

[Macen he/him]

*If Macen wishes to claim that his gut is not in fact based on this disgusting pattern, then he had better come up with some more substantial grounding as to what displeases him about my playstyle. Of course, he may always simply bite the bullet and agree that his gut is based on a reasonable explanation for my current low-commitment playstyle, even though I have already stated before the game that I cannot be active. At this point, I'm tempted to consider him an Eliminator looking for a cheap score since gut can't be held accountable for error (you don't, after all, commit as much as you do when you go all out to make a case against someone.) But then, at this point, I'm not terribly inclined to be charitable, and so I shall decline to make a judgement call.

I don't have much time to post, Babysitting for some friends who went to a concert. I want to say it has nothing to do with your activity levels Kas. I have played with you numerous times, and I played with you your first game (the first play through of this) and I just feel like your posts have too much smoke and mirrors in them. I would never vote someone based on activity level (especially if they post a RL reason, because I have the same stuff come up all of the time.

I will try to analyze more posts when I can, but time hasn't been forthcoming lately.

*EDIT* I don't have time to read the rests of the post right now, but I should before the cycle ends.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Macen

[Elbereth she/her]

I just meant it sounded like a red heiring.

...Storming puns...

I'd also like to add, regarding the Grandbow user, is it possible that this was a bit of misdirection? Perhaps to cover up future kills as simple mistakes?

What? If this kill wasn't redirected by someone, then the Grandbow user is definitely not an eliminator. Even if the eliminators were to kill one of their own teammates like that, the Grandbow user would have to tell someone ahead of time in order to be cleared, and even then I seriously doubt they'd kill their Artifabrian. It'd be much more intelligent to kill an eliminator without a role, if they were going to at all (which really seems unwise in the first place).

What's more, this seems like you're trying to awkwardly put suspicion on the Grandbow user, Sheep. Just saying.

That said, I don't actually trust whoever has the Grandbow, because having an action redirected to a teammate is certainly possible.

(Also, Sheep, please try not to double post in the future. )

The one thing that strikes me as odd about your post, kas, is that you seem very taken aback by a vote against you that uses "gut" as the reason for it when, yesterday, your ultimate vote (against wilson) had the same reasoning. One thing I try to do in these games is look for people being inconsistent, and I've been pointing out what appear to be inconsistencies all game. It certainly isn't incriminating by itself, but it seems to be a useful data point.

Um... Kas did that to prove a point. The point that gut votes are good for the eliminators and unhelpful to everyone else, in fact. I feel like you missed that bit.

That tactic makes absolutely no sense to me. The only time I could see someone doing that was if the eliminator was super obvious and/or another eliminator outright accused them and made some form of big deal about it, trying to clear them if suspicion.

The closest was me saying I was a little suspicious of him, Orlok being a GB hardly clears me, and there is no reason I'd feel I needed to be cleared - no one has voiced suspicion against me yet. That Gb wielder can't be a GB.

As I say above, redirects are possible, so the Gb user could be a Ghostblood. It's unlikely, but still possible.

Also, another possibility just occured to me: It could have been a failed WGG. If someone was supposed to protect Orlok but didn't for whatever reason (roleblocked, item stolen, lied about intent to protect Orlok if it wasn't an eliminator), that could make sense. Also unlikely, sure. But it's possible, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Okay. My thoughts on the players.

Elbereth - riding the line between offering advice/giving thoughts about mechanics without making any accusations or giving reads on players

To be fair, I feel like I usually do that. But it is a bad habit of mine, so thanks to you and everyone else who did for pointing it out. I'll try to stop doing that. (Thus, my vote on Sheep.)

---

'Allë finally drew to a halt in front of Brightness Mahiri's house. She collapsed against the Soulcasted wall, gasping. It felt like she'd been running for days.

She sank down the wall to the ground, relaxing for a moment. There was a nice view of the nearest ravine from here. The crack sank down into the ground, sharp and jagged like the edge of a well-used knife.

But soon she forced herself to her feet, hoisting the satchel up on her back again and making sure the papers hadn't been stolen. Fortunately, they were still there. She stared at them for a moment. They weren't even sealed...

She couldn't resist. She ducked into the alley between Mahiri's house and the next building. She pulled out the first page.

Brightness Mahiri, it read. It has come to my attention, through numerous sources, that you are a member of the organization known as the Ghostbloods, who are suspected to have orchestrated the assassination of the late King Naladar.

She stopped reading, hands shaking slightly, and carefully replaced the paper back into her satchel. This was not something meant for her eyes. Some information was just too important to know. She could get killed if she got involved in this kind of thing.

She brushed ineffectually at her dusty uniform, then emerged from the alley and entered Brightlady Mahiri's home.

She was in her study, writing, when Tintallë found her. "Brightness Mahiri? Message for you."

She nodded, and Allë handed over the papers as innocently as she could. "From brightlord Terneas, m'lady."

Brightness Mahiri frowned. "Terneas? I don't know why he would..." her fingers tightened on the papers. Tintallë didn't dare look at her face.

After waiting an appropriate interval, she asked quietly, "Will there be a reply, Brightness?"

Mahiri managed to look up after a minute. "I... I suppose there will be. Yes."

Storm it. I have to run all the way back, too? Tintallë carefully didn't react as the brightlady wrote a response. Her hands were shaking slightly.

Mahiri carefully sealed the letter and handed it to Tintallë, neglecting to even include a tip.

Allë bowed correctly and went out without a word. She paused for a moment in front of the house, looking down the long road ahead of her, but then sighed and started running.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Elbereth

[AliasSheep]

What's more, this seems like you're trying to awkwardly put suspicion on the Grandbow user, Sheep. Just saying.

I was certainly trying to raise the possibility thereof, though I will admit that on further thought it doesn't seem likely (thanks to some objections I hadn't previously considered).

Edited April 30, 2016 by AliasSheep

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

Yo.  Admittedly I should have posted a bit yesterday, but my day consisted entirely of school and sleep

 

Anyway, I voted for DC partially because they seemed suspicious over the course of my conversation with them yesterday, and partially because I didn't want to waste a vote.  That being said, not going to deny that I might have followed some popular trails, more for lack of being able to get a read on anyone else than anything (am I allowed to still pull the newness card? )

 

I'm tempted to say I'm still quite suspicious of DC, and I'm gonna add Wilson to that list as well.  This thing with PMs and Nyali (who until now I've been inclined to trust, at least to some extent), even if it does resolve to nothing, is still for the moment interesting, and I'd rather throw my lot behind both of them being suspicious than backing one or the other.  To be honest, their interactions seem like they could be cover for some actual plan going on between the two that they're trying to hide (maybe if they're both GB and one gets taken down, the other isn't associated with them but still has an excuse for acting on communications early in the game?  That only makes a little bit of sense, though, now that I think of it).  Most likely that Wilson's complaints are genuine, but I'd like to explore all possible routes, just for thoroughness' sake.

 

Thanks for responding! AliasSheep. I don't think I'm suspicious enough to lynch you, so I'll remove my vote.

 

Are you allowed to pull the newness card? I think that depends on if you're new to the game of mafia/werewolves/whatever else this game might be called, rather than your newness to this forum. So I can't say I'm qualified to say one way or the other really. But from your posts alone, I don't think you sound like a brand new player to these kinds of games.

 

I'd also like to add, regarding the Grandbow user, is it possible that this was a bit of misdirection?  Perhaps to cover up future kills as simple mistakes?

 

I really think whoever killed Orlok is not a GB. El brings up the point that it could have been redirected, but I'm not sure that that's very likely(probably more likely than an eliminator killing one of their own though). That would mean that someone redirected a T1A Action, and really, if you can specify that you want to redirect the GB kill, I think that's what the Soulcasters would be doing(unless they didn't know it was possible).

 

Argh, wanted to put up a more detailed post, but have to go now. Will be back in about an hour. Sorry.