eveorjoy

The Listeners have four genders. Male, Malen, Female, Femalen. EDIT: You are not a bad person for wanting Adolin to get away with Sadeas's murder. However, Brandon is too good of an author to allow Adolin to get away with it.

I'd give you reputation Mason, but I'm not allowed to give anymore today. Thanks for doing these.

Well, yes. Kaladin has earned several plates and blades by this point, just not his personal blade. Kaladin didn't have to kill anyone to get his Syl shardblade. He just needed to save someone.

I'm going to put down my reactions and then read the other comments. If my opinions change based on what I read from your comments I will edit this post. Chapter 7 *Yeah a follow-up to Kaladin's last two chapters. Good. I love how far Kaladin got without summoning his Shardblade. While still dark-eyed and looking like a vagabond, the soldiers still were going to let him go. He still had to call Syl to make everyone follow him, but they weren't going to arrest him on the spot. Kaladin exudes that much authority by sheer will alone. *Syl approved of the punch as I thought she would, but I like that Kaladin realized his mistake. He has a long way to go, but he has come a long way since the beginning of WoR. *I didn't get why at first Lirin was so sad that Kaladin had a shardblade. Then I realized it was because Lirin knows the only way to get a shardblade is to kill at least one person. That is not how Kaladin got his blade, but he is correct that Kaladin is a killer now and a talented one. *It is weird reading people call Kaladin "Brightlord," but that is his correct title now. *I love how Laral took charge and that she has the blond streaks back in her hair. She doesn't need to be saved. *Kaladin has a new baby brother. How cute. I'm happy for Hesina, Lirin, and Kaladin. I don't get why other people were bothered by the idea of them having another child. Hesina was still young enough and they aren't replacing Tien. *Lirin is disappointed, but Hesina's awespren shows she is at least is proud of her son. I hope that Kaladin is able to get her and Oroden to Urithru. I'm not surprised Lirin wouldn't leave Hearthstone. Someone has to heal the wounded there. Though I do wonder if everyone will be pulled into Kholinar before long just to survive. Chapter 8 *Yay! Shallan Chapter! Though this chapter and the next seemed more about Dalinar and Adolin than Shallan. *Shallan doesn't want to hate Pattern and claims she doesn't, but she still hasn't sorted her feelings. Pattern is her sword, so she does hate him in at least in one form. She can function this way, but for how long. *I wonder what Jasnah is going to say when she hears everyone referring to Shallan as an Elsecaller. Shallan wants to keep her full powers on the down low. *So Lyn the scout wants to be a fighter eh? Do we have another Radiant in the making? *Dalinar's powers seem to enhance other Radiant's powers. I wonder what he can do with Kaladin and Renarin. *Renarin has seen the champion. I wish he would tell everyone else what he has seen. At this point, his tight lipped nature is working against the group. I love Renarin, but he needs to speak up. *So they need to open and Oathgate in Azir and we know of a certain awesome girl who just got her shardfork. I wonder of Lift's interlude will be about opening that gate. *Wait! Another murder! Chapter 9 *The descriptions of Urithru are awesome. I wonder if it is all Shardblade made. *Maybe they should stop sending Bridge 4 on scouting missions. There are former murderers among them and people might get the wrong idea if they keep finding bodies. *So we have a copycat killer. Adolin didn't do this one. At least Kaladin will not be blamed, but I fear Bridge 4 might still be. *Renarin knows something again. I wish we could at least get a Renarin POV so we know what is going on in his head. *This chapter mostly feels like Shallan is the camera along for the ride. Even her interactions with Adolin are more about Adolin than her. *Adolin is in charge of the investigation. I've seen that trope before. So if it does follow the trope Adolin will almost get away with the murder until he cracks under pressure and spills the beans. Of the three chapters this week, chapter 7 was my favorite. It is awesome to see Kaladin embracing his place as a Knights Radiant and we finally have follow up on elements from book one. I enjoyed the parts of chapter 8 that showed us more of Shallan. The rest wasn't bad. It was just perfunctory plot elements to move the story along. Some of what is going on with the Adolin/ Sadeas murder plot are tropes I have seen before. Death Note and Dexter come to mind. However, I am excited to see what Brandon will do with those tropes.

Palona: A dark eyed Herdazian woman is able to get a highprince to fall in love with her, giving her all the perks of a highlady without the responsibility. Not that she doesn't run Sebarials's house. She does and quite well. She is also among Dalinar's advisors at Urithru. She also has a fun personality. I enjoy reading about her whenever she shows up in a chapter. Skar: Almost as skilled as Moash. Practical, loyal, and a good leader to the bridgemen. Will fight when injured to protect his friends. Moash took the spotlight because of the drama surrounding him in WoR, but Skar is a good soldier and friend. Leyten: Without him, Bridge Four would not have had proper armor at the end of TWoK. Hobber: The first of the bridgemen to accept Kaladin completely. He has a nice smile and an earnest heart. It was a tragedy what happened to his legs, but at least he didn't die. Hopefully, being a squire or one of the healing KR will help him walk again.

I'm hoping to get a follow up to chapter 6 and a Shallan chapter. If we get the next flashback chapter we will likely get a Dalinar chapter before it where Oathbringer, the sword, is found in the planter. The next flashback is the story of how Dalinar won Oathbringer. I'm hoping it is not in the next round because I want the flashbacks spaced out more than that and I want Kaladin and Shallan to both get at least one chapter. The last chapter could be the Dalinar chapter that leads into the flashback, but we shall see. Heck, I will be grateful for three Dalinar chapters, but chapter 6 was quite a cliffhanger and I miss Shallan.

For starters, I would like to say, I like everyone’s points, even those I disagree with. I won’t comment on everyone’s post, just a few key ones here and there. But I have enjoyed the discussion. I kept out of it until now because I wanted to see what people thought. Let's start with this quote. First I will focus on the second half of the quote. All right @Ansalem , even though Jasnah is proud of her heretic state, she is not going to ignore this fact and will acknowledge it to a Vorin audience. She knows that many of the female Vorin audience will to want to dismiss her opinion on the subject matter because she is a heretic and they will assume her positive bias toward the topic. So Jasnah states this, in the beginning, to get this out of the way. If she were talking about another subject, such as the history of her father, I don’t think she would bring up her status as a heretic at all. Still, @Ansalem and @Calderis, nothing in this statement says to me whether or not she believes she is a heretic. However, this I believe is left to our interpretation. I can see why you would see it that way, but I do not. We simply do not know enough of the context of this preface to make that determination. In my mind, the statement is only about others seeing the author as a heretic and the author acknowledging this fact Galivar did dictate his experience to Jasnah, but she admitted she embellished his words in the undertext. TWoKs Chapter 36 “The Lesson” page 578. Therefore, even though Galivar gave his account of his meetings with Parshendi, Jasnah wrote that book. It is closer to a biography than a true autobiography. Yes, It is true Jasnah, or another Vorin woman, could be writing the dictations of Dalinar or some other male. However, the fact she is speaking to Vorin women expecting only Vorin women to be forming opinions of the writer, suggests to me that the preface is no mere transcription of dictation. Hmmm... I disagree. Because we do not know the context of the book there could be more than two reasons for people to feel threatened or vindicated by this book. I don’t think the subject matter is only Dalinar and his visions, but also the first few months or even the first year at Urithru. If this is the case then many would be vindicated: the other highprinces, Elhokar, any of the new Knight Radiant including Squires, various leaders around the world for various reasons, etc. Of course, because we have not read either Oathbringer yet, we have no way of knowing who would be ashamed or vindicated by the in-world book. More quotes by Calderis Stating that only women will read this makes me think the author is a woman speaking to women. Stating your audience as the same gender as yourself is very common in the history of writing. The last quote is particularly interesting. It from the Song of Ice and Fire world, where men are the primary writers and readers. In Vorin Roshar women are the primary writers and readers. Therefore it is not odd that the writer would refer to the gender of the readers as women. It is the assumed normal, but in the quotes above the assumed normal audience is male. Even though T.S. Eliot and Mark Twain wrote in times where women could be educated it was not the typical. So the term “men” is used to refer to the audience in general. When the author of Roshar's Oathbringer refers to the readers as women she is referring to the average reader in Vorin culture, women. Why mention it? Why does Jojen mention only a "man" who never reads? Why does Homer state "men" are wretched things? They are using the pronoun of the normal audience. Why state the gender? In Vorin Roshar would the statement make sense written some other way? I know that many men who read this... No, because it is an obscene thing for men to read in Vorin culture. This statement would have made sense in pre- twenty-century Earth because men were considered the norm, but not in Vorin Roshar. I know that many persons who read this... No, this reads very stilted and makes no sense in Vorin culture. It might make sense in our highly gender focused modern society in Western Culture on Earth, but even then the statement seems awkward. I know anyone who reads this... This is the only way you could start the sentence without mentioning gender. However, I believe Brandon wrote this statement to let us know what culture this is being written to. Further, the above statement is less formal than rest of the preface's prose. So the statement as written in the preface seems the most natural in Vorin culture. Yet another quote by Calderis This was the moment I decided it was Renarin. We don't know the extent of Truthwatcher abilities yet, but when have Jasnah or Shallan seen "Beyond" Shadesmar? Truthwatchers see. Yes, but Truthwatchers cannot travel between realms. Further are we sure Truthwatchers can see. Only Renarin has said this, and he could be wrong. I will come back to this. Shademar can lead to beyond the world of spren, which is the Rosharan cognitive realm. So as an Elsecaller, Jasnah, can still fit the statement. But let’s look at the statement again. Only three orders, I think, have the closest binds to Shadesmar. Elsecallers with the surges of transformation and transportation. Lightweavers with the surge of transformation. Finally, Willshapers with the surge of transportation. I admit the last order is a guess, but it is a likely one. Both our Elsecaller and our Lightweaver have visited Shadesmar using the surge of transformation. However, only the Elsecaller could stay while the Lightweaver was kicked out as soon as her stormlight ran out. So I think Jasnah was able to stay because of her transportation surge. We know from other Cosmere works that Shadesmar or the cognitive realm is the means people use to hop worlds, such as Hoid and others. Elsecallers, and most likely Willshapers, are the ones who can easily hang between realms. Now Renarin is not a member of any of these orders. His surges are supposed to be Lightweaving and Progressing (healing). Neither of these would suggest seeing the future, which has me worried about Renarin. We simply don't know what is going on with him. Still, the quote from preface above does not fit Renarin's claimed order. It might fit his statement, but even then seeing the future is not seeing Shademar and it is only an assumption seeing the future refers to the beyond. It does fit Jasnah’s order. In fact, it fits hers the best IMHO. Quote by Stark. Yes, the Stormwardens are making a script of glyphs, but this script would not fit the grammar or syntax of the quotes. The stormwarden script is too straightforward and simple. The writer is clearly an experienced author by her writing style. Now it is possible that a male member of the Sons of Honor is dictating to a female scribe or a female member of the Sons (which makes no sense considering the name) is writing it. But several of the quotes point to a Knight Radiant likely being the author, especially from one of the orders of Elsecallers, Lightweavers, or Willshapers. Maybe one of the Sons of Honor is a Knight Radiant but I doubt it. As for your suggestion of Szeth, @Stark, he is more likely than some suggestions. He probably can write, but why would he write to a Vorin audience? Also, he is going down the path of a Skybreaker, who as far as we know don't hang between realms. It could be he is remembering when he died, but he doesn't seem to remember the afterlife in WoR and I don't think he is planning on writing a book at that time. Quote by @Nathrangking We have seen the example of Taravangian's writing of truly genius days. It's not as legible as the prose of the in-world Oathbringer and even he and his scholars are still trying to translate it. Maybe. But how long has Vorin culture been the norm in Western Roshar. The fact the audience of the book is all female suggests this is written in Vorin Culture. It is possible the Sunmaker dictated this in his time, but we don't have enough information yet to be sure. Only two more days until we get more preface and our debate can continue.

This is the Oathbringer spoiler board. Everything Brandon has released on Oathbringer except "The Trill" chapters in Unfettered 2 is on this board. Spoil away, but if you are worried about it you can hide your comments with a spoiler window. It's the eye tool in the submission box tool bar.

Sometimes an author will throw red herrings in the readers path, but sometimes he will leave the odvious as odvious. This book has so much mystery around it that making an author be someone out of left field seems too much. I think having the author be someone other than Shallan or Jasnah would not have the same impact.

Yay More Stormcast.

I want to talk about the Preface of Oathbringer, and not the one with Eshonai, that’s a prologue anyway. What does this Preface tell us about where Stormlight Archive is going, Roshar, and the author? Let’s list all we have so far here. I will put my comments under each and all said comments are speculation. Chapter 1 When this was released last week my only thought was, "So Oathbringer is a book in world. Cool." Now I think this is a book written after the events of SA3. I think the book is about Dalinar, who is the Oathbringer. Or it could be about the sword and the events around Sadeas death. Either way, Navani, Shallah, or Jasnah wrote this. Once again the prelude quote fits the chapter. Many would think Dalinar’s visions should not exist. Chapter 2 This tells me two things. One, people did not want this record of truth to be written, but it needed to be. The other thing it suggests is that Sadeas's death was not the smarted action, but it needed to be done. I think even those fans who condemn Adolin for his actions wouldn’t care if he had killed Sadeas in the arena or on the battlefield. Sadeas did need to be removed, the method just may not have been the best Chapter 3 didn’t have a prelude. Think this has been the case for all flashback chapters. Chapter 4 It still suggests Navani, Shallan, or Jasnah, however, this statement feels more like Jasnah. Both Navani and Shallan are on the path to excommunication for heresy because of their association with Dalinar and the KR. The Devotories and Ardentia do not like what Dalinar is saying and doing. I think marrying Navani was the last straw. However, neither Shallan nor Navani have denied god at all. Only Jasnah holds her head high and wears the mantle of an atheist heretic proudly. This author holds no shame in her condemnation. This prelude screams Jasnah. Chapter 5 This quote makes it clear only a KR wrote Oathbringer. Navani could not see into Shadesmar and hang between the two realms. Shallah could, but the writer's voice does not sound like Shallah. So more proof that the author is Jasnah. This also suggests it was written after the events in SA3. The author was contemplating their situation and felt some honest record of the events needed to be written. Chapter 6 If you read the extra Jasnah chapter, she did worry she would die until she jumped all the way into Shadesmar. And her family, including Renarin who can see the future, thought she died. So this quote I think removes all doubt that if the book is written after the events of SA3 Jasnah is the author. So, from what we have so far I conclude the in world Oathbringer was written sometime after the events of SA3 by Jasnah. Also, the reason it was written was to have an honest account of this period. Now, I further speculate that this was written to vindicate Dalinar’s choices at the refounding of the KR during the end of the previous civilization. The world as it was has ended and a new world is being formed by Dalinar and Taravagain’s actions, along with the new conflict with the awakened enemy. I also worry that this was written after Dalinar’s death. That doesn’t mean he will die in SA3. The in-world Oathbringer could have been written twenty years after these events. We don’t have a date. Still, it is a concern. I’m sure my opinions will change as we get more chapters from part one of SA3. I will likely talk about them as well in this thread as they come out. Thoughts? Who do you think wrote the Oathbringer of Roshar and why did they write it?

I'm not saying it was smart. I just don't see Syl yelling at him about it.

You are assuming Kaladin was out of control when he threw that punch. He wasn't and Syl knew that. Everyone else in that room might flip out on Kaladin, but Syl I think will just shake her head.

Nah. He didn't break any oaths. She might not think it wise, but I don't think she will berate him for it.

I wasn't saying the One Who Connects is wrong. I was just explaining how I came to that conclusion. I didn't gloss over those statements, I just didn't consider them viable enough. Navani's journal I assumed came after she learned Renarin was the source of the glyphs on the wall. And I trust Syl's opinion because she has good instincts. Of course I am just speculating and could be completely wrong. I guess we shall see.

Actually, it is Navani's journal entry and Syl's statement of this fact that led me to believe seeing the future is of Odium.

Okay. I’m going to share my thoughts without reading your comments. Then I will go back through and read your comments. I will make edits if your comments affect my opinions. *Oathbringer is written by Jasnah! Here is where I squealed. *Dalinar has the first four chapters? In TWoK and WoR the focus character had stepped back by now and allowed another POV chapter. (Adolin’s short reminder scene doesn’t count.) So I skipped ahead and saw Kaladin had the next two chapters without reading the content. Satisfied, I returned to Dalinar’s chapter. *I knew the Everstorm didn’t renew stormlight from Edgedancer. Still, that is going to make things hard for our heroes until the first Highstorm of the year comes. Everstorms are bad, but they are survivable. This will upend civilization, but if handled the right way the humans can at least fight this war. *Navani is going gloveless. Even touching Dalinar’s face with her bare safehand. They are going to need to do something about that soon. *Dalinar told Navani about his memory loss of Shshshsh. (Sadly, I did read the Thrill and I can’t recall her name either at the moment. I do remember she was an awesome character. I wonder how much we will read about her in part one.) So Dalinar did something awful the night his wife died and that led him to seek the Nightwatcher. I have a feeling the night his wife died or his visit to the Cultivation is going to be the end of Dalinar’s flashback sequence. *LOL. I love Navani. So we are getting a wedding already. Awesome. *So Bridge Four is too high in status to guard even their Bondsmith? Have they all been raised in nahn? Are they considered to have a dahn like Kaladin had before Syl became his shardblade? Technically Kaladin wasn’t of the fourth dahn, but he had the same authority in the army and was paid nearly as much as a soldier of that rank. * Elhokar is very incompetent, but I storms I like him. I hope he realizes his spren soon as well. Well of Ascension spoiler. *LOL all the awespren. Then glory and joy spren too. Cool. Nothing is going to bring this moment down. *And here comes Kadesh to bring this moment down. I think Dalinar and anyone who follows him will be branded a heretic soon. I wonder if ardentia will side with the Sons of Honor and try to seize power again. *Okay on to the Kaladin chapter I read before. Nothing new here to comment on other than it feels tighter than the earlier draft. *So Hearthstone’s people gathered at Roshone’s manor. Good to see so many made it. * Lirin and Hesina are there!?! Well, that is one theory I got wrong. Oh, they are so happy to see Kaladin. What a beautiful moment for him. So what if I am crying? Shut up. *Kaladin’s regression is not surprising. It’s even healthy. For the first time in years, someone takes care of him. It was only for half an hour, but I hope it gave Kaladin some relief. He has suffered so much and it is good to see him taken care of for once. * ROFLOL. Yeah, that was just for Moash, Kaladin. Sure it was.

I hope everything is fine with Renarin. I like him a lot. Still, something is going on with him and the latest chapters only made me feel this more.

We find out at the end of WoR that Renarin was writing the glyphs. He writes them in front of Shallan.

The sound is fine.

Renarin his bonded to a spren, I just wonder if it is a voidspren. Navani's Prelude to chapter 5 "Ideals" on page 84 of WoR has me worried for Renarin This was written even after chapter 2 of Oathbringer in the Rosharan timeline. We now know it was Renarin who wrote on Dalinar's wall. Navani knows this by the time she wrote this as well. Is something going to happen that will pit Renarin against the rest? I just keep getting vibes that somethings is wrong with Glys.

It's officially less than a day to the next three chapters. It's Oathbringer Chapters 4-6 eve.

Dalinar is the headquarters leader. Kaladin is the front line leader. If the KR were the Xmen, Dalinar would be Professor X and Kaladin would be Cyclops. I think Bondsmiths fall into this role naturally with so few in number even though their herald was not King. Dalinar needs to use Alethi laws and government structure for the time being, but this will change as more knights come. For starters, they already have former slaves with glowing light eyes and it won't be long until women are showing up with various shardweapons and they are not all going to be scholars like Shallan. That will upset the social structure at Urithru. Dalinar will need to adapt to new norms. However, implementing the Alethi codes in Urithru could be a natural progression back to the old laws of the KR. Alethela, Alethkar in the time before the Recreance, is the country that nurtured the warrior knights and seemed to be where the knights would live when not in Urithru. Likely the warrior culture of Alethkar developed from the distance memory of the history.

If the death of a loved one was enough most of Roshar would be full of Radiants. It is how the death happens and how it affects the proto-radiant that makes the difference. Had Tien died of an illness at home peacefully I doubt Kaladin would be able to invest now. It's the fact that Tien was sent to die, promises to keep him safe made by Kaladin and others were broken, Tien was placed by his commanding officer in the front line as fodder, and that Kaladin watched it happen then held the body until it went cold, all those facts together is what cracked Kaladin. Maybe. Babies feel awful pain but give them something sweet and they are over it quickly. Often nurses in newborn intensive care units give their baby patients only some sugar water to suck on during procedures that are painful for adults. Physical trauma will often halt emotional attacks by having physical pain pull the person away from the intensive emotional feeling. This is why people with emotional issues sometimes turn to cutting themselves. I think pain if it is intense enough could crack the soul as well without leaving emotional damage. Not everyone who is mugged experiences PTSD, but I think the pain in the event itself could still crack the soul even if the individual is able to cope with what happened later. Of course, this might be a question to ask Brandon directly.

It does not always have to be emotional trauma. The nobility in Mistborn beat their children to find the mistings and mistborn among them. Mistborn Spoiler Also, we assume it takes the level of pain Kaladin and Shallan endured to become a KR. However, both Kaladin and Shallan had cracked enough to invest before some of the worst events in their lives. Kaladin had already attracted Syl before he was made a slave. As for Shallan, we don't know what cracked her. It was her status as a new Radiant than caused her mother to turn on her and eventally destroy her family. I think what Adolin is going through now and what he went through just before he killed Sadeas will be more than enough to allow him to invest. Now he just needs to attract a spren. It would be awesome if that could be his current sword, but from what we have learned of dead spren that is likely impossible.