lacrossedeamon

We are actually talking about that over here:

Well then they both need work. No, I stated why I came here previously. Everything else was just bonus. Not true. Feruchemist can store as much of a power so that by tapping they could boost themselves by as much power as an Allomancer would get by burning. A Compounder could then do 10 times that amount by burning that metalmind instead of tapping it. You seem to be saying that a Pewter Compounder would be only as powerful as a Twinborn Pewterarm/non pewter ferring when the first burns a pewter metalmind while the latter burns regular pewter. I’d say it wasn’t very clear there either but otherwise this has been settled for me. Now on to other examples: Lightsong and Susebron getting captured assuming the specific rebels weren’t Awakeners (possibly they were drabs to get around the life sense). Yes neither of the two actively used their power but that power does still grant passive effects. Lightsong lost due to less skill; he had more power. Cases where a fused with only one surge beats a radiant who has access to two surges. I can’t remember if Kaladin used both surges in his little ROW duel with Vasher but if so is that more “power” than a returned suppressing his divine breath but still using awakening? @therunner question: how would you quantify spiked double Allomantic bronze in regards to Marsh?

I don’t think that’s true. I think he was a willing participant at the least the quote in TotES implies as much. I think him not picking up a Shard is a separate matter from not wanting to shatter Adonalsium.

That’s a good watsonian read on it. Doylist view might be that it’s a method to keep Brandon from spoiling stuff. When Hoid says Sazed we don’t know if he’s Harmony or Discord.

I still think those Prophecies are cosmere wide with multiple applicants. Vasher, Dalinar, possibly Raoden, and maybe even Hoid himself all seem to fit.

Just wanted to post this here so it’s visible: But @StormingTexan does bring up a good point that Hoid at least thinks Cultivation is the only dragon on Roshar at the time. It is possible he is mistaken but that seems against the grain for both Hoid and Brandon.

I think Sazed has always been Discord but calling himself Harmony in the same way Rayse called himself Passion instead of Odium. We know over time the Intent corrupts the Vessel. I think Discord has been corrupting Sazed since he picked up both Shards.

I think it just needs to be in the body to be burned (which I guess Wax did subconsciously) not specifically ingested. Similar to how Miles can burn his metalminds that are studded in his body but not technically ingested either.

And the difference is what exactly? Poor rhetoric? Frustrating isn’t it? Luckily I’m not the only one calling you out on this now. It’s fine when @Frustration does it… for reasons. No. Wax being a Steelshot is canceled by Miles being an Auger. Wax being a Skimmer is canceled out by Miles being a Bloodmaker. Miles being a Compounder that can burn his gold metalminds isn’t canceled out by any for Wax. Technically the Stormfather calls him unchained in regards to Ishar having regained his Honorblade. The part you quoted comes pages later after a few different POV changes. Now if we are claiming both are unchained then I’d say Ishar is still more powerful because he is also unbonded and thus has the ability to use his surges in ways Dalinar would not be able to. Of course you can say that a skill issue which is then of course a different matter altogether. Now we are getting somewhere. Would have been nice if you had clarified that from the beginning instead of deflect or ignore when @Tglassy asked multiple times. It wasn’t very clear to begin with that you only meant Invested power by just saying power. Maybe use “surge” since Brandon has said that’ll kind be the byword for any Invested ability? As stated above your criteria were not very clear. And made less clear by you engaging in counterarguments that contradicted your own criteria. The only valid counterpoint was to state skill based usage of the same surge is not considered more power, the moment you actually start debating skill you validate it’s presence in the argument.

I guess I’m the first one to call you on your hypocritical rhetoric. Just trying to apply your criteria fairly across the board. By Compounding Miles can use his Feruchemical gold at least 10 times the output Wax can use his Feruchemical iron. That is more power. You and @therunner need to reread RoW. Stormfather calls Ishar Unchained. That WOB is referring to Ishar. Then again you need to define “power” better because most people would consider “skill” or “experience” a form of power. And once clarified don’t make counterpoints based on criteria you previous dismissed. It is poor rhetoric.

Ah sorry, not a Trekkie

I got that but it’s bad rhetorical tradecraft when arguing against doing that later in the same post without acknowledging the contradiction. Otherwise you just seem to be hypocritically cherry picking data. Maybe you should relinquish your handle and give it to me then? In the context of the narrative Dalinar traveling between the realms never happens thus you should have never brought it up according to your own criteria of what powers should be allowed to be considered. You criteria for power were “access” and “ability”. Miles via compounding can burn his metalminds which is an ability that Wax does not have and through that ability can gain access to more Investiture than regular Allomancy or Feruchemy (hence the term compounding). Please explain the difference because the Stormfather seems to disagree. This kind of goes back to the first issue but if it is valid as a counterargument then it must be valid as an original argument otherwise you are moving goalposts.

Like Hrathen? I don’t see the connection.

I hadn’t thought of this possibility. He could have been on Lumar for 300 years but at the bottom of another ocean on a different planet before that which Khriss new about. There is in fact a WOB about an underwater civilization on Roshar.

That’s not how that works when you, before and after the Dalinar statements, assert we should not be doing that with nothing implying why your one case with Dalinar is different. Let me assure you the steps of your thought process are very far from logical. You mean where he muses on it but in fact does not display said power so by your rules we should still discount it. Got it. Miles as a compounder has more access and ability to use Investiture than a regular twinborn. If true then yes Vasher had more “power” in you definition of it. Very false. Dalinar is bonded to the Stormfather and thus has to follow his Oaths. Ishar is Unbonded. The Stormfather even makes the distinction. Partially but also you disregarding (or at least not addressing) the comments about Nale’s and Ishar’s millennia of experience.

It’s been removed from the new omnibus edition. There are a few WOBs about it.

Sandmasters ability to convert sand directly into water

Slatrification is no longer canon.

No. No no no. No. I did read the whole thread. You at no point go “by according to your logic…” or something similar in order to recontextualize your statement. If that’s what you meant you need to get better at conveying your argument otherwise it is you that needs actually read the thread to see the actual explicit context. Also what about when you point out Dalinar can travel between realms which we have never seen him do before Tglassy pointed out Nale having access to Division and living Plate? You also really do need to define what you mean by “more powers/powerful” because at some points it just seem to mean access to “surges”. Which by that logic Miles is more powerful than Wax because yes they are both twinborn but Miles is also a compounder thus “more powerful”. In regards to Vasher and Denth both are Returned Awakeners so equal on that regard but we don’t know their Heightenings during their confrontation so we can’t actually judge. Ishar and Dalinar being the same level of power is laughable; Dalinar is Third Ideal while Ishar is Unbonded. However you also in some places seem to use “more power/powerful” to mean more skillful but rejects when others bringing it up in regards to experience.

Agreed that the only way this system works is if Investiture holds it all in place somehow.

You can’t argue this while also arguing this: God these threads are such a trainwreck and yet I can’t look away.

Technically the moons are orbiting assuming the planet itself is rotating. It’s just that their orbital period is the exact same length as the planet’s rotational period making them geostationary. The issue with this though is that to be geostationary (as opposed to just geosynchronous) it has to be above the equator with zero inclination which is obviously not the case here. This an interesting work around to why the spores don’t seem to be affected by the moons’ own gravities and why they can be so close. But I think there is still an equilibrium problem in that over time the blimps would either escape the planet’s gravity or would become less buoyant and crash anyways.

You create the speed bubble beforehand and have the Windrunner stick a limb outside. And then Elsecall to a place not directly analogous to where the explosion is happening in the different realm (which admitted might not be possible but Oathgates and Skipping implies it should be to a skilled enough one) if that is even required. Theoretically the explosion would affect the elements that are just the cognitive aspects of physical objects ie the beads in Shadesmar but wouldn’t affect the underlying cognitive terrain.

Hell with how the spores react to iron and steel you might not need the misting and just the chromium.

Not if you do it with a team of a Windrunner/Skybreaker (or just someone with a Skimmer primer cube), a Slider, and an Elsecaller. Well it’s still bad for the target but the perpetrators could potentially survive.