Letryx13

Technically, these letters, but still, lol.

I think Adolnalsium is still alive. I've thought so since Rayse's words when Dalinar spoke his third ideal. "No, we killed you." He's clearly horrified by whatever he saw, and that must mean he's referring to another shard or something even greater. But the fact that he said "we" means it wasn't someone he killed on his own. Honor is the only shard Dalinar has a direct connection with, but as far as we know, Odium killed Honor himself, so that doesn't make sense. The possibility that makes the most sense to me is Adolnalsium.

I alway interpreted it as being a power of balance because the power input matches the power output. Yes, you lose efficiency if you use the stored power up faster, but that increased level of power is the benefit you get, balancing things out. I agree that Feruchemy feels more of Preservation than of Ruin, but then again, just because two things balance each other, doesn't mean the two things are equal in amount. If two metals were weighed against each other, but one was much less dense, and therefore lighter, than the other, then you'd need a lot more of the lighter metal to balance the scales. This is just an idea, but maybe Ruin's power is more dense than Preservation's.

The last word is flexible, but it's the first thing that came to mind. I'm thinking that Kaladin needs to do something similar to Dalinar and have a book written about him, and everything he's been through.

Knight of Winds' Travels

This is pretty much what I would do too. AonDor is the most versatile application of investiture seen so far. Other forms are more powerful, but AonDor can do almost anything other kinds of magic can do. Use either feruchemical zinc or allomantic bendalloy for quick application, or copper feruchemy to remember all the Aons. Personally, I'd go copper feruchemy.

I would love either of them as Honor, but considering the Hero of Ages misdirect in Mistborn, I doubt either of them would be permanently. I like the idea of Kaladin restoring the power somehow, and then giving it away. Like he's given away shardblades and shardplate in the past. Lift is heavily hinted at being the next Cultivation. She wants to stay the same while everything changes around her. And Cultivation is all about things changing. Taravangian will no doubt be a bigger problem than Rayse was, if only because Dalinar doesn't know about it. And because Taravangian is convinced he's saving everyone, instead of Rayse's desire to conquer, his delusions will fuel his actions. There really needs to be a main character that isn't a radiant. The only way to justify Adolin becoming a radiant is if it heals Maya, in my opinion. As much as I'd like to see Adolin as an edgedancer, I think healing Maya will involve something else.

I'd want to be a Copper-F and a Cadmium-A twin born. I think having the encyclopedic knowledge of a copper mind, I think those ferrings are called archivists, would be useful not matter what kind of life a person was living, whether they were an adventurer, a soldier, or a desk clerk. As for being a pulser, I think it would be really handy for traveling. In the Bands of Mourning, we learned that a pulser's speed bubble moves with the person if their on a big enough vehicle, like Marasi on the train. You probably couldn't use it in a car, judging by what happened when she burned cadmium in a horse drawn carriage, but maybe you could turn a 12 hour bus ride into a few minutes or the same thing for a plane trip. It would still be the full twelve hours in real time, but you'd practically be jumping ahead in time.

If Moash had been able to express remorse over what he did to Teft at the end of RoW, then I could maybe see a Moash redemption story. Maybe. But he couldn't bring himself to say it. Which, interestingly, I wonder if that had something to do with the Honorblade he carries. Maybe someone can't lie while holding one (wild theory). But anyway, the problem is, there's never really been much nobility in Moash to start with. In TWoK, we find that his main motivation for staying alive is revenge. He showed some small loyalty to Bridge four, but tossed that aside as soon as he got something better in the shards from Kaladin. Then, when he meets up with the caravans after being caught by the fused, he only sees the absolute worst in the people there, disgusted that the dark eyes are still beneath the light eyes. All of which leads him to blaming everyone else for what he did. Redemption requires taking responsibility for your actions, like Dalinar did at the end of Oathbringer (one of my favorites parts of the story). Moash has had several chances to admit his wrongdoings and start fresh, but he's always taken the easier route of denying responsibility. Unless he owns up to his mistakes, there's no hope for him. As for Kaladin, I agree that he probably won't be a big character in the second half, if he survives. Personally, I'd love to see him being a driving force in the field of mental health care, but as someone who's work affects the rest of the story. Maybe he is directly in the main story a little, but he'd be better as a side character, if he survives.

I re-read ROW recently, and the Taravangian and Dalinar chapter always gets me thinking. One thing that I noticed that doesn't get mentioned much on this thread is another possible motivation for Taravangian. I think he legitimately wanted to save people, but another, and more powerful, driving force for him was a desire to prove to everyone how smart he really was, and how foolish and weak everyone else was. In an interlude chapter in Oathbringer, an intelligent Taravangian asks for the words the surgeon said when he was born. And Adrotagia says that he asks for them frequently. I think this is one of the real reasons he did everything he did. I think he feels (still) a very deep seeded anger at everyone for thinking him to be of "diminished capacity" and wants to prove that it's really everyone else who is really of diminished capacity. Or at least, everyone else is according to his standard. A lot of people point to his pride as Taravangian's greatest flaw, and I agree, but I think this is connected to his pride. He wants to prove he's the only one smart enough to see that his way is the only choice, the right way, what is needed, etc. Rayse's flaw was his vanity. He didn't just want to win, he wanted to win in a flashy way that shows his brilliance. Taravangian is slightly different. His pride (and desire to prove he's the smartest) will probably make him want to prove to everyone else that he's the best, that his way is the logical option. I picture Rayse's version as someone who puts on a parade to display their victory, but Taravangian doesn't need a big performance; he just needs people recognize how smart he is. But I think this will also be his downfall. I think he will end up being forced to confront a mistake, and not being able to admit it or even acknowledge it will be what brings him down. I can't say how that might happen, but it seems likely to me.

Would you be cool telling the innocent civilians in Kharbranth something like "hey I killed three of the thugs on the street but since the police are corrupt, and it would take me too long to change that there'll be more out there by tomorrow night"? A six or seven foot fall is unlikely to be fatal. Probably broken legs, maybe something more, but unlikely to actually kill them. And the injuries would help to incapacitate them. Far less likely than the certainty of soulcasting them Trees don't intend to be lightening rods, but that doesn't mean it's smart to stand underneath one during a thunderstorm. (Paraphrased quote from Kingkiller Chronicles) I'm glad to see we can find common ground. I agree, the analogy is off. Another point I'd like to make is in reference to how open or concealed the killings are. It's one of the ways I can say that Amaram was wrong to do what he did to Kaladin's friends, despite his "justifications". If what he was going was really for the greater good, if he genuinely believed it, then he shouldn't have needed to hide it. If you're claiming self-defense as justification for killing someone, then you need to go to the police and report it. I feel that the only reason for not doing that is if you have something to hide.

As I've said before, soulcasting a pit out from underneath them. She specifically mentions doing this at the battle of Theylen Field.

I meant that focus and efforts should be applied to the source. I still maintain that she could have easily stopped them without killing them. Handing them to the police might have meant their executions, but those would be as a result of a legal system, and due process under the law. Which is completely different than her just straight up judging them unfit to continue living. And considering both her rank and political skill, I'd wager she could manage to start things moving in the right way within a week. If the thugs she apprehended weren't held accountable, then she could use that as evidence of the city's corruption and use that as political pressure. Alternatively, she could use the fact that she was attacked as proof of the city's failings and used that. She had options. Also, I don't remember, but was what she did ever made public or reported to the authorities?

No, I'm saying the best way to fix a situation like this to to route out the corruption of Karbranth and make the policing force actually protect people like they're supposed to. Shardbearers can't hold ground. Who could protect the population of the entire city better? Jashnah or thousands of police officers?

I've had similar thoughts about this. About Jasnah venting her anger and the state of Karbranth overall. If apprehending the criminals does no good because the system is corrupt, them you need to do something to fix the system. Otherwise it's like scooping sand off of a beach. I still think Jasnah shouldn't have killed those men for moral reasons, and because she had viable alternatives. But I agree with what you say here. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

The stormlight efficiency is without question their biggest weakness, but I think their power is part of the reason why people need more stormlight to use them. A non-herald isn't able to handle the honor blades' power efficiently. And are we certain they can't recover from shard blade wounds? The only time I can remember an HB wielder taking a shard blade attack was during Szeth's fight with Kaladin. And Kaladin seemed to think that Szeth didn't want to use up the light to heal himself. Also, a WoB implies Szeth's perception prevented his healing, like how Kaladin couldn't heal his brands. Live shardplate probably does make a difference, and a big one, but Szeth managed to wipe out multiple shard blade users who had plate. Non-radiants yes, so they didn't have surge binding, but they still didn't give him much trouble. Actually, I didn't know that history of aluminum. But even taking that into account, we don't know how much aluminum is going to be readily available. We may not know what method the fuzed are using to craft their weapons, but it's likely that they're not lacking electricity. Stormforms could probably provide all they need. Kaladin was much less experienced with the surges, but was particularly gifted with spear fighting. Even among the radiants, he's probably their most talented fighter, except maybe Dalinar. Also, Kaladin didn't really defeat Szeth. Szeth let Kaladin kill him. He may not have had as much experience with his powers, but Kaladin was a particularly skilled warrior. Dalinar is probably the only radiant that could beat him in a straight up fight, not accounting for Szeth with Nightblood. Which now that I think about it, is a duel I would love to see. There are at least some checks agains the radiants' powers, limiting the damage they can do. Whether or not the spren think they're worthy, the radiant following an honorable code, and what ideals they can swear to. The honor blade's require none of that. Although, I've had that same thought. The SkyBreakers were originally the police of the radiants, which means there were probably some radiants themselves that needed policing. There probably have been radiants that went rogue in the past. But which seems more likely to go on a rampage. A random person with an honorblade, or someone chose to be a radiant? I agree that the stormlight efficiency is their biggest drawback. But if someone were to steal an honorblade, they would probably spend a good deal of time learning how to use it. We also don't know how much practice they actually require. Moash was able to use lashings seconds after picking up the WindRunner blade. I know he's supposed to pick things up quickly, but that seems a little much for just talent alone. Kaladin fell off walls more than once while learning to use lashings. And while guards might not be as confused by surge-binding anymore, with how different fuzed powers are from radiants, soldiers and guards still probably wouldn't know how to fight them. The "advantage" of the honorblades is that anyone can use them. While I still think they grant more power than typical radiants, the risk is that there are no real requirements to use the power, except to have a lot of stormlight. If Moash could fly immediately after being given one, then it can't be too difficult to learn how to use them. I think we can agree that the minimum to be done is locking them away, or under heavy guard in some way. I think the risk they represent merits destroying them, but I can respect the difference of opinion. If they were going to be locked away, I think someplace in Shadesmar would be good. There aren't any other shard blades there, true, but stormlight runs out quickly, so they'd be harder to use. And spren could swear oaths to protect them. Which begs the question, could a spren use one to surge-bind?

Kaladin never defeated Szeth. Szeth allowed Kaladin to kill him once he realized that he wasn't truthless. Szeth was longing for death as a punishment for all that he'd done and to escape being bound to that oathstone. Kaladin specifically noted that his last attack in that fight was meant to draw Szeth out of form by parrying the blow, but Szeth didn't parry the blow, he just took it. Their being so powerful is my entire point. If there isn't a specific need for them any longer, they represent a huge risk. That much power in the wrong hands is not a good thing. True, radiants could probably stop someone who ran amok with one, by sheer virtue of numbers if nothing else, but how much damage could they do in the meantime? Especially the blades with gravitation or transportation for quick getaways. If no Windrunners or WillShapers were around to pursue, what could anyone do? Part of my point is that the honorblades are more powerful than typical radiants. I think they probably grant power equal to the fifth ideal and more. And while multiple radiants probably could defeat someone wielding an honorblade, they could still kill a lot of people before they were caught, if they were smart. I agree that with the number of radiants now available means the honorblades are not as dangerous as before, but the danger is still considerable. True, Szeth was mostly so successful because there weren't any active radiants at the time to directly oppose him, but there are still only so many radiants. They can't be everywhere. And as for soldiers now being trained to fight surgebinders, don't forget, Szeth fought full shardbearers in the past. When he killed the king of Jah Kaved, he went up against three, some with shardplate and half shard shields, along with "half an army", lying in wait for him, and he decimated them. Training can only help make up for so much of a difference in power. Adolin described his second fight with Szeth as rats fighting a chasmfiend. Theoretically, they could duplicate the bands of mourning and make everyone as powerful as Rashek was. But we still don't know exactly what kinds of limits medallion technology will have. Not to mention, the metallic arts seem to grow weaker through the generations. The honorblades don't seem to have lost any of their potency. Considering the surges also deal with connection, it's theoretically possible to use the power of a bondsmith to make someone into a radiant. Ishar probably tried to do something like that with the Stormfather. Except he was just taking the connection at the time. He managed to take out multiple shardbearers at the same time, along with a small army, when he killed the king of Jah Kaved. And technically, he was never defeated. He let Kaladin kill him. We've never seen someone wielding an honorblade actually lose a fight. They've been scared off or directly affected by circumstances or other powers, like when Navani broke Moash's connection to Odium, or when Dalinar forged a connection with Nale. The closest we've seen is when Ishar ran away from Szeth and Nightblood. But in direct combat, we've never seen an honorblade defeated. They're still super valuable, and besides shardblades and plate, the only other defense are those aluminum weapons or investiture weapons on part with shardblades. I consider Nightblood to be a shardblade, for the record. Aluminum seems to be rare enough that it's difficult to manufacture weapons of it in large amounts. That's why it's only the fuzed using them. It's almost as valuable as gold on Scadrial. I doubt it will be possible to have it too wide spread. And it depends on how many powers it's possible for medallions to grant. At the moment, two is standard, with three being rare. That number will probably go up, but there's likely to be a trade off for that. The powers being weaker, perhaps. Firearms would definitely be a big deal, assuming the materials for gunpowder even exist on Roshar. But as Miles proved, a powerful healing is very difficult to counter. By the way, thank you all for discussing this with me, this topic has been fun to debate.

There currently is a lunatic bonded to a Spren, Nale. Not important, but I wanted to point it out. But I still think the honor blades are very dangerous. Look at the damage Taravangian caused by using Szeth. If it were so easy to substitute a radiant for an honor blade user, then why not just find a radiant and convince them to help? They were still rare, but they were starting to emerge; the Diagram even mentioned them. But that's only an example. On top of that, their ease of use makes them desirable. People on Roshar did a lot of stupid stuff in the past for regular shard blades. Imagine what they'd do for the honor blades. I think it's just a matter of how much stormlight they have. The only time I remember Szeth getting injured with a shard blade was when he fought Kaladin the second time. And I thought Kaladin suspected he just didn't want to waste the light he had left. When Wax and Wayne are discussing the possibility of Bloody Tan still being alive, Wax specifically mentions how Miles could have survived a shot to the head. He doesn't mention blood makers in general, and more than once he worries about Wayne dying from a shot to the head. To be fair, I think it's probably possible for a regular gold ferring to survive that kind of wound, if they had enough health stored up, and were actively tapping it. But I'd bet it would take a lot out of them to do it. The only reason Miles and Rashek could keep it going so much was because of compounding. But I agree, how much fuel they have for their abilities is probably the biggest difference. Probably, but if you're tapping them slowly enough to preserve the power, I doubt it would save the user from larger wounds. Yeah, turning them to dust probably wouldn't work. But there should still be a way to destroy them. Reduce them to investiture and consume them with Nightblood maybe? Or destroy them with anti-stormlight? Assuming they're comprised a stormlight investiture, not just Tanavast's soul.

We can't really know until we see a direct conflict between them, but I get the feeling that even twin born wouldn't be powerful enough to compare to a surge binder without compounding, or a large variety of abilities to make up the difference. The radiants ability to recover seems much stronger. A bullet to the head can killing a gold ferring, but Shallan walked away from a crossbow-bolt sticking through her head. The metallic arts seem more versatile, but surge binding seems stronger. At least, that's how they feel to me. It's the compounding that makes the metallic arts so broken. Hard to say. Personally, I'd love to seem some kind of conflict between two people using once of each. But in my head, I see it as an escalation of the difference between a radiant and someone using an honorblade. The bands are more powerful, but also run out even faster that non-herald honorblade users. So I can't really say which I think is better, I'd guess it all depends on who could outlast the other. But I stand by the idea that Roshar will likely be much better off without the honorblades, once the desolations are finished.

Only if the radiant themselves believed in what they were doing, as Kaladin has proven. Besides, with the honorblades, anyone could have the power. Imagine Sadeas with one. And possibly using it to frame radiants. Or some random lunatic running amok with one. If it really works like shardplate, then you could only ever have the ten blades. If you could duplicate the armor like that, they would have made tons of suits of shardplate by now. And I think Dalinar says they can't do that in TWoK. I don't think that matters. I think it's just having a tie to multiple shards, but we don't know for sure yet. I kind of hope Renarrin finds out. If the bands truly grant the same level of power that Rashek had, and he was probably around the same level as a full herald, if not stronger, then the bands probably are more powerful than any one honorblade. But based on what Wax said about compounding, I think they'd be harder to recharge. On the other hand, without compounding, I don't think an allomancer or ferring could match a surge binder, unless they were a full Mistborn or Feruchemist. And since the process of making medallions with more than three metallic arts is unknown, the bands themselves hold a similar level of value and danger, as the only thing on Scadrial that grants that much power. Which is probably why Wax gave them to the kandra for safe keeping. Though, to be fair, I agree that the medallions are more practical than the honorblades.

I had that idea too. Hide Jezrien's blade with Kaladin, the TruthWatcher blade with Renarin and so on. That's the safest alternative I can think of. But I think getting rid of them is the best option. I was going off of the WoB saying they could be changed to other states. I'm not completely sure what he means by that, but it sounds like they could be reduced to some unusable state, or at least really really hard to fix.

Unless someone figures out how to use a different kind of investiture to power them. Venli, Zahel, and Knightblood itself all prove it's possible to fuel powers with different kinds of investiture. And actually, the storm father implied that the honorblades granted more power than a radiant bond. He said that with Jezrien's blade, Dalinar would be a WindRunner and more. True, they use stormlight much faster, but as Szeth proved, especially with the WindRunner and SkyBreaker blades, that doesn't matter much if you carry enough stormlight with you and then run away when you're done killing people. The LightWeaver and TruthWatcher blades could disguise the user for assignations. And so on. I was thinking more along the lines of breaking them into pieces, rendering them unusable. I didn't know about that particular Words of Brandon. But it seems safer if they were reconstituted in such a way as to make them harder to use.

Nale and Ishar would probably object, but considering the other heralds, except Taln, abandoned their blades, I don't think they'd care. Even if they did, I'm not sure they still have the right to have a say. As for the Shin, I agree they might be an obstacle, if they still have the blades. But what they want to happen to the blades is uncertain. They practice with the surges, according to Szeth, but they've also kept the swords a secret for millennia. Waiting for the desolations to return, presumably. If the desolations end, they may not see the need for the honor blades anymore. But I think we agree on the biggest obstacle. The fact that most of Roshar will view the honorblades as holy artifacts.

So, something I've wondered about since I read RoW is what has happened to the Honorblades, and what will happen with them going forward. Based on Dalinar's encounter with Ishar, it's strongly implied that he attacked the Shin and took the Honorblades from them. He may have only recovered his own, so we don't know that he has all the missing ones. But that means that 6-7 of the Honorblades are either in the possession of the Shin or Ishar's forces, or split between them. Nale has his, Moash has the WindRunner blade, and we still don't know what happened to the StoneWard blade. Since Kaladin and Szeth are headed to Shinovar in book five, it's more or less guaranteed that more information about the other blades Shinovar protected all those years will come out. What really happened to them, where they are, who has them, we don't yet know. But we will hopefully find out. What I'd like to ask/postulate, is what will happen if they honorblades are recovered by the radiants? If the desolations truly end after book 5, then there won't be the same kind of need for them anymore. The desolations will be done. The heralds my eventually recover, but who knows what state they'll be in. And as a certain honorspren said and Szeth has proven, the honorblades are dangerous. Without any kind of oath restricting the actions of the ones holding them, they can be used to terrible effect. Of course, some of the honorblades could still be useful. The blades could be used to train people in the surges of that blade's corresponding order, which would be useful in times when there aren't many radiants of that particular order, such as BondSmiths. Or ElseCallers at the present time. So the honorblades could still be very useful, but also very risky. This brings me to my conclusion. I think the honorblades should be destroyed. They were forged from Honor's soul, and Vorenism likely considers them holy artifacts, but with the danger they represent and the need for them greatly diminished, they should probably be disposed of. The way to do this, of course, is with Knightblood. If that sword is capable of damaging one of the honorblades, then it should be capable of destroying them. It would be tricky, given how Knightblood works, but it should still be possible. Of course hiding them or locking them away is an option, but the Shin tried that. And while they were successful for a long time, the blades were ultimately recovered by insane heralds who have done Adolnasium only knows what with them. That's why I think the honorblades should be destroyed. What do you think?

Honestly, I'd be terrified if Knightblood (my favorite character in Warbreaker, for the record) were ever truly safe to use. If it's powerful enough to damage an honorblade, collapse Honor's perpendicularity, and kill an admittedly vulnerable Shard of Adolnasium, then it would be a complete game changer in that scenario. Even on the scale of the desolations.