Master Silver

One thing that is apparent from Szeth's development throughout the series is just how amazing a fighter he is. Arguably, Szeth has more feats when it comes to fighting (like taking out a small army) than Kaladin, but Kaladin by winning duels shows his superior skill. I hope they become besties. After all, the new generation of heralds should get along

I just realized three things. 1) Odium only remains bound if Dalinar wins or Odium wins, not if it is a draw. 2) On the tenth day of the month Palah, tenth hour. It does not give a year. Nor does it say next month. 3) If Odium offers Dalinar's allied kingdoms a separate peace for breaking their alliance with Dalinar, Odium can then attack them at a later date. Also Odium can conquer all neutral kingdoms (Shinnovar) and third party kingdoms (Ishar's kingdom)

Firstly, I love the topic. I will work my way up, but others have done a great job of answering these questions. The Storm Father says he will not come at Dalinar's call or be a blade to him or be bound in such a way that he could be killed. I think these initial statements might have been true when said but are no longer true. Now that Dalinar is of the third ideal the Storm Father is far more connected to him. We see from Radiants of the fourth ideal and how scare/concerned the Fused were about them, that the Nahel bond becomes so strong that even inversing the Towers protections doesn't work on Kaladin. I think if glory spren chose to become plate for Dalinar that is their choice. Heck, I am amazed that Honor spren haven't tried to bond him too (all I'm saying is Dalinar is super honorable). I always thought it funny that Syl was driving off the glory spren around Kaladin. In terms of Shallan, I think she will manifest plate once Radiant leaves. I think she is on oath 3.5 right now. Her next truth will revie Testament (mostly) and grant plate. For the stormlight, it is odd that living plate uses it, because spren blades don't use stormlight. Maybe it is because the plate is not as connected to the physical realm as the Radiant spren, plus the augment the plate enhancing strength and speed via stormlight. It is possible the fifth ideal helps rectify plate's weaknesses. Finally, Radiant plate can just be dismissed. So it doesn't have the same issues of dead plate when all the stormlight runs out. Cheers

I'd agree that 10 days is too short of a time for any major stroke to be launched against Dalinar's coalition. Especially since, one Odium is still extremely new to his powers and coordination and execution of orders takes time. Two, Dalinar is coming off of major victories. He has lost a few Radiants, lots of troops, but it seems like Odium has lost a large portion of the Heavenly Ones along with his chief scholar and a very capable (but insane) fused. Which side is the city of Kohbranth (Taravangians old kingdom on)? More on topic, Taravangian said Odium should have never allowed himself to be maneuvered into a contest of champions. If the contest is prolonged (since it only is over when one champion is killed), if it is a child who cannot hurt Dalinar and Dalinar refuses to kill the child. The contest could be dragged out for 20 years, giving Odium time to wage his war. Nothing in the contract prevents the contest from taking an extremely long time. In 20 year Dalinar will be in his mid-seventies.

Oh no..... I am just re-reading Oathbringer. And I just finished the chapter, where Dalinar and Taravangian are talking about a hypothetical with 3 murderers and one innocent, and Taravangian says you hang them all, but Dalinar says, taking the life of one innocent, is one too many. Dalinar also, didn't kill that little one when he won Oathbringer. Taravangian may know all of this, so that will make it hard for our man to win. Unless by refusing to kill the child Dalinar ascends. But even if he refuses to kill the kid, that just means the contest doesn't end.

@alder24 and @Oltux72 Good points on both sides. In terms of Dalinar being the best fighter. I think he distinctly said he was the best killer. Adolin is likely the best duelist, but for stormlight (this is not including the Heralds). I think it is universally agreed that Kaladin is the best... hate to qualify that lol. But Kaladin is the best Soldier. All of this however is only when you are talking about humans born on Roshar in the past 50 years or so. This El, that we see at the end of RoW, may have served as champion of the Fused in the past. In Chapter 28 of Oathbringer, Dalinar does ask if there is anything that can be done for his former shard blade (this could be a foreshadowing). Yes, his best weapons are his Bondsmith powers, but we see that even Ishar ended up using his blade against the Wind Runners and Seth.

Did Honor go from being in the hearts of singers, like their gem hearts to being in the hearts of men? Something worth considering. Where the tiny pieces of Honor are wouldn't diminish his power. The singers always talk about how their old gods betrayed them. Maybe that was part of it.

I think everyone agrees that Ishar could do this, but the point they are making is that the process was interrupted so the connection snapped back into place. The Storm Father is no ordinary spren, just like the sibling, destroying or corrupting them or in this case stealing a connection takes a lot of time. The process was interrupted and both Dalinar and the Storm Father were fighting against the theft.

It is exactly this power that Ishar displayed that I think Dalinar should use to revive Oath Bringer. Even though Jasinah or another could possibly lend Dalinar plate and blade, the decades of experience that Dalinar has with his plate and blade can't be replaced. They know him and he knows them. I think this is foreshadowed in The Way of Kings, when we see Dalinar do superhuman feats like stopping the Chasm Feind from squashing Elohkar. Like Maya, I think they have revived a little bit. I do agree that his powers are his best weapon, but the Fused have ways of making powers not work. Although, Dalinar has so much investiture that I find this unlikely to work on him the way it did with Kaladin at the beginning of RoW.

So, there are ten days to prepare, we know from some of the early chapters we know that certain main characters are back from adventuring. If Dalinar is to be his own champion and it comes down to a fight, he really will need a blade and plate. I suppose another radiant and their spren could lend him their blade, and he could use dead eye spren. I don't think there are any honor blades available. I thought perhaps he could form a connection with Oath Bringer and revive it a little. Remember when him and Shallan combine their powers to make that giant 3d map. Maybe Navani and Dalinar can combine their powers to semi-revive dead eyes. heal what was ripped out with life light? Finally, do we have any hints on what type of spren Oath Bringer and Dalinar's plate were. Although it is possible that by swearing the 4th ideal, Dalinar would get glory spren plate armor. But only ten days, where is the hyperbolic time chamber when you need it?

There is always the chance that Taravangian convinces Dainar he already won. Rayse and Taravangian have distinctly different motivations. Taravagian ultimately sided with Odium because he though that was the best they could do. Save one city of humanity with all of the knowledge they had amassed. He essentially was trying to create a Uritheru. Rayse said he would have to destroy the world in order to not leave his investiture behind. Taravangian said he was going to "save them all." It is a matter of what mankind's existence looks like.

I have started my re-read of the series. It is so long that it will take me at least 6 months. But the on going argument throughout the series between Kaladin and his day about how best to protect could be a theme and the root of the fifth ideal. I think different Wind Runners could come to different conclusions. Some might say, "If I must, I will kill to protect, so long as it is with honor." Others might say, "I will not kill to protect, so long as I live/lead with honor." I do really like the idea others have put out. "I will lead others to protect themselves." But since every idea seems to be harder to say and in a sense it helps fill holes in the spirit-web, it could be, I will protect those that/whom honor/Honor demands. Or I will protect with Honor. The capitalization is on purpose.

Your points/ objections are good. I was just thinking that what a brilliant way to get Kaladin and Dalinar on opposite sides. One of the early chapters has Kaladin's brother in it. That is what made me think of it. The thing is, if it is a child then it is a stalemate, which the old Odium didn't want. Perhaps the new Todium doesn't mind if the fighting continues. But it seems like the Radiants keep getting stronger, whereas the Fused are all on the brink of insanity.

What about Kaladin's little brother as Odium's champion. Could a void spren pretend to be an honor spren? Bond him and get him to agree to a contest of champions as if it were a game?

I really like this topic. The two contenders for picking up the Shard are Dalinar and Kaladin. At this point we would say that Dalinar is the most heavily invested of the Knights Radiant, being bonded to the Storm Father and having sworn three ideals. But it seems to me like Kaladin is being set up to become Honor, especially, after RoW. But there are two vacancies as I see it. We need another leader of the heralds and another Honor. If Dalinar and Kaladin keep the same relationship that is easy enough. But they might also swap. I am sort of expecting Kaladin to take Jezrien's blade, and become Herald of the Wind Runners. There is also the question of how much more investiture does Dalinar need for him to be bound by the power like Odium says?

What weapon is Dalinar going to use for this contest. Odium says it will be so much more than a sword fight. But if it is a duel to the death, Dalinar will need blade and plate. An honor blade would be best. Living plate would be better than dead plate. So... Does he borrow an honor blade and Kaladin's plate? Does he use sword Nimi? Thoughts?

What if Dalinar bonded the honor blade? That would drastically change parts of the book.

One thing to note about Todium, is that as a human, he really was trying to save humanity on Roshar. He did the best he could with the diagram. Now he has way way better information. He may still be very new at being a Shard, but he certainly would be able to tell what would happen if he showed up and talked to Dalinar, and said, "Yo Blackthron, you know that god you were fighting a war against. I killed him." And with being able to see into the future somewhat that would tell him if having that conversation would be a good ideal.

My thought was that aside from the Shin, the Skybreakers very likely have a huge stockpile of dead blades. They are the only order that did not disband.

So a couple of things, firstly, I love these type of topics lol! Secondly, I think Dalinar was feeding a little bit on stormlight, like Kaladin did before knowing he was doing it. That helps explain why Dalinar did ok. He was a budding Surge Binder. Secondly, Szeth would do worse in a confined space. Not as much room to use lashings. So a banquet hall is a better place to fight than the kings quarters. Thirdly, has Dalinar ever lost when he goes full Blackthorn? I think Dalinar who fought Szeth in Words of Radiance, but with full plate and blade+ Gavilar fighting Szeth in the king's quarters would for Szeth to retreat. I don't think they can kill him, but very likely wear him down. The dimensions of the room are so important to help determine what both sides can do. If the celling is too high it gives Szeth an advantage. If the space is too confined the shardblades will be hard to use. I think full Blackthorn, aside from the heralds is the best fighter we have seen.

As with much of the Stormlight Archives, we see echoes of the truth that manage to survive and make its way down from history to the present. The light eyes rule in Alethkar because Surge Binders, especially the Radiants eye color changes to light eyes when they use stormlight. Shard bearers have a ranking system, where full shard bearers are given more status and are more dangerous than those with only one shard (either plate or blade). Well of course radiants who have earned their plate are of the 4th ideal. Of course there are a bunch of other things that are sort of half truths, seeing into the future was seemingly of Odium, so Alethi avoid things and card games that seem to be predicting the future. I think calling Ryshadium the third shard is likely half true. In the same way that living blades and living plate seem to be significantly better than dead blades and plate, I imagine a true Ryshadium bond would be the same way. For instance if they can change forms (maybe they are stuck in horse for like the blades are stuck as swords) or even be infused with stormlight by their riders. In terms of not being useful to 4 of the orders, that is true. But maybe those other order get Fabrials instead of horses.

Isn't there a Stormlight archives timeline that says when Shallan's mom and then later her dad died?

I hadn't thought of it like that. Yes Kaladin is so honorable that he has to really believe in the oath before he takes it. He also can't see the oath as a betrayal of his previous oaths or he will not take it. I think what Brandon is doing with his character arc is brilliant. He sorta shares in a way the brokenness of the Heralds but on a much lesser and not magical way. But he also shows that he can, like an ent when roused, be very dangerous or maybe I should say hasty lol. I just had a thought on the perfect ending to Stormlight 5. Dalinar and Kaladin are awesome and defeat the big bad, and find the Shard. Dalinar, being the leader picks it up begins to ascend and then..... puts it down and says, "Son, no, not son. Kaladin, I have never known a man with more honor. This is meant for you." Then of course Kaladin speaks the 5th ideal, I am Honor. Dalinar for the last time says, these words are accepted. Kaladin picks up the Shard of Honor and ascends. Dalinar, as he is watching Kaladin ascend, says, I will bring Honor to men, and Kaladin says, "These words are accepted."

In terms of sub-Radiant orders, at the end of RoW, a bunch or spren are about to take the plunge and join the war effort. Some of those Spren might join the third faction.... the Listeners. Among the Listeners there are now a couple dozen fused. These Fused along with the remaining Listeners all could bound spren. Some honor spren may be drawn to the Leshwi and her companions. Their souls may not be as cracked as they think.

So this leads to the inevitable question what/who is more highly invested a Full-Born from the Mistborn series, 5th ideal radiant, a Bondsmith, or a Herald. or someone with 10th Heightening. Also I sort of feel like the Storm Father is unique in that he was a spren which merged somehow with the cognitive shadow of a dying shard (which might qualify as a sliver). In which case Odium's conversation with Dalinar makes more sense about the power eventually binding him.