Master Silver

So from this discussion, and I'm not sorry at all for putting Nale up against the Lord Ruler, it seems like certain surges would fair far better against a full born than others. Some surges like soul casting would make it so that the fullborn loses their powers. Other surges, like regrowth seem to make radiants (and I imagine heralds heal faster). The closest thing to a fullborn we have in Stormlight Archives is Nale (only herald who joined the knights radiant). So Nale has plate, honor blade, and for good measure another shardblade (which can be whatever weapon he needs to include a shield). Honor blades allow Heralds to draw on the same amounts of power that Vyn did. The Lord Ruler vs a Herald is about as good a match up as we will get TLR (1000 years experience vs Heralds (5000 years). Also, this fight would have them both using swords essentially, so not gun vs sword. But if you take a Herald (your choice) and then have them bond a radiant spren of a different order, does this fight become lopsided the other way? Side note, we may see heralds bond spren to help fill cracks in their spirit webs. Seems reasonable to me

lol no he doesn't have infinite strength. Just what he has stored up over 1000 years. The Lord Ruler is only a sliver. Shardblades are heavily invested, and honor blades are even more heavily invested. Atium of course or durallimin (spelling) gives TLR the edge, but from watching Ishar fight in RoW, I had a thought. We know that seeing the future is something all Shards can do, some are just better at it than others. SPOILER Atium was a part of you know who, just like the blades are a part of Honor. Since we don't know everything the honor blades can do, why couldn't the blades also grant the heralds similar abilities in combat like Atium? All I have for that speculation is Ishar vs the windrunners. Also, Odium was/is convinced that Surge binding is the best magic system and he knows about the other magic systems. I think we are all underestimating the heralds

Challenge accepted. I propose Nale. I have no idea what division does, but I imagine Nale is at least a match for Ishar in terms of combat ability. I know as a bondsmith Ishar wields some crazy amount of power. Fifth Ideal Radiant who happens to be a herald for the win :-p

This is the point I think I was thinking of. Yes if the twin born or Mistborn has enough investiture lying around, for twin borns like Wax, if they have enough speed stored up. But how long does it take to store 5 minutes of speed so you can move super fast (faster than arrows). I think we saw Dalinar cruising along at 200 mph in RoW. So you have speed bubbles but again you have to store speed. If the twin born or even fullborn gets to store up months or years of investiture of course they will win, but what you have essentially done is who would win if they got in a fight the Flash (in the case of Wax) or Superman (in the case of Vyn with the mists or a fullborn like the Lord Ruler) or a Radiant. So I think we really have to define terms of the battle. If they don't have a ton of an attribute in their metal minds even being twice as fast and strong won't do you much good. 10x as fast and strong likely gives you the edge over the advantages of plate. Anyway sorry if someone has already mentioned this

And that is sort of my conundrum. We have seen with Kaladin and Shallan Radiants learn to use their powers, and this sort of has gone hand in hand with swearing new ideals. Kaladin's lashings and learning how to fall with style. Even in RoW we saw him learn to use adhesion much better. Same thing with Shallan and light weaving. She went from making singular light weavings to light weaving an army. I imagine she has her plate now even though we haven't seen it. If bonding the sibling and swearing higher ideals is supposed to go with discovering how to use fabrials (in a normal desolation cycle) having Navanii already as a master artifabrial scientist and scholar means that her journey will need to be different. Maybe she will learn about the nature of spren. I really hope it is well written and story telling doesn't take a back seat to some agenda.

That last part about Kaladin's 5th ideal being about protecting himself for the greater good or not throwing his life away protecting. We know Syl's last Knight went to a battle that he shouldn't have because he was too old, perhaps he was only on the fourth ideal and had he been able to swear the fifth ideal he wouldn't have died. I still think swearing the fifth ideal helps with long gevity in some way (others have sorta convinced me that immortality/becoming a cognitive shadow is unlikely upon swearing the fifth ideal).

I think Navani will be about bring men and spren together. I don't know what Night Watcher does. edit: My real question is, what can Navani do with higher oaths that she can't do now? If the Tower or Sibling is functioning properly again, and he doesn't need to teach her fabrial technology (presumably this is in part what the Sibling along with the heralds did before), than aside from becoming more efficient with stormlight what good will it do? Tower is again presumably back to 100% minus the damage done by the recent fighting. So how does Navani swearing the higher level ideas help?

I mean I think it would be awesome if he went from feeling sort of inferior, ok everyone has super powers but me, I've made my peace with that, to being the only guy with 4 surges. I could see Dalinar reviving Oathbringer, and perhaps Shallan reviving her dead-eye. So, I think we may see three cases of a double bond. Shallan's a double bond with spren of the same type. Dalinar's a double bond, one with a Bond spren who is living, the other with a dead-eye revived (Oathbringer). Adolin could do the opposite, revive a dead-eye and then bond a living spren.

Depending on how high above Narak the fight was taking place, something moving very fast could make it to hearthstone maybe. haha Good point though.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned but where was Honor shattered? Could it be possible that part of his power attached to Kaladin? In terms of being a descendant of Tanavast like a grandson, Tanavast breaking an oath either for the sake of a human, or to a human could have left him open to an attack by Odium. The Stormfather gets the mind of Tanavast, presumably Dalinar ends up with the power of Honor, Kaladin, ends up with the soul/blessing of the Shard/Vessel. Crazy things happen when the realms combine, or a god dies.

As terrifying as Taravangian is, the Blackthorn would be more terrifying. But that would completely undo Oathbringer (the book). The Stormfather had talked of the Everstorm as his opposite, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I wonder if the Everstorm can have a bondsmith, or if Dalinar falls, does he bond or merge the two storms? If Ishar regains his sanity for a little bit, I don't think it would be a stretch for Dalinar to bond Oathbringer (the sword) and his old set of plate (which I imagine as Windrunner plate). And perhaps that would give him access to 4 surges instead of two. The two from being a bondsmith, and two from the next closest orders, being Stonewards and Windrunners. I know if it is a straight up duel against a man, fused or Regal or Radiant Dalinar will win. But knowing Taravangian it could be a game of chess.

As cognitive shadows given physical form they likely have different limits than humans with bodies. Also, they are directly connected to a Shard. Their cognitive aspects/wills remain independent, but I imagine you must rip away their bond (Jezrien) or (and so far only Nightblood has managed it) destroy their honor blade. I do agree that the bond is different, but I think two heads are better than one. Syl has kept Kaladin alive plenty of times.

On the topic of Adolin and Maya, it seems like those who said it is an inverse bond, Maya taking something from Adolin were right. No idea how many heart beats it takes for Maya to form now, but as Adolin and Maya continue to travel in the cognitive realm she is continuing to heal. This may also be true of Shall's dead eye too. So that Adolin would gain Edge Dancer abilities seems right. But have we seen any creation spren surrounding Adolin? What happens if a bunch of glory spren decide to be his plate? Or reviving Maya does something weird and revives his plate too (I wonder if she can wake them up somewhat). Would he get a mixture of powers?

I can't help but remember the exchange Kaladin and Moash had in Words of Radiance. In some way Moash is doing exactly what Teft did in his youth, only worse. Teft turned to fire moss to take away the pain. Moash turned to Odium. I hope Moash seeks redemption. But like Boromir (SPOILER lol) I think it must end in his death. There isn't really a way to come back from what he did. I still don't really buy that Szeth wasn't executed (he was but wasn't). I know end of the world and everything, but still.

I know what you mean. It makes me very sad. But I think there is a little bit of hope with what Moash was saying "the only hand that can kill Stormblessed is his own." I know his depression isn't cured, but I hope that he is out of the danger zone now. It has got to be hard to kill people in plate. I'd give Syl plate for good measure. Surely she has attracted a couple of Wind Spren on her own :-)

Take it back!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) As heart breaking as losing a member of bridge four was, if Kaladin dies after coming so far, I think we'd have to petition Sanderson for a different book

If Odium wins the contest, the rest of the Cosmere might come to know the Radiants as Knights of Wrath. Rayes seemed convinced that everyone would try to destroy him after they found out about the power of surge binding. In that case, and lets say Taravangian is going to try to save the Cosmere, but everyone being conquered doesn't see it that way. An offworlder, seeing Dalinar leading some form of Fused, might write a book about it to send to the rest of the Cosmere. Jasnah or Hoid could write it.

I think that the Skybreakers have a viable third option now. They can serve the Listeners. Apparently there are hundreds of Reachers who are willing to bond Listeners. Then you also have the awaken children of Ja Sa Nat (sorry for spelling). 4 fused, several Regals (who could also become Radiant in Regal form). So all that combined would make the Listeners strong enough that no one would want to fight them.

To my mind, it kinda seemed like this book was 200 pages short. I would have liked to see More Adolin & Maya at the end. A little more Shallan & Veil being merged. Definitely a little more Sibling and Navani. And more what is happening with the Spren. There were a lot of lose threads including the state of the war and if they are mass producing anti-void light, etc. Also, Kaladin and Dalinar talking with Zaehl at the end of the book would have been good. I feel like you would need two books to resolve everything that is left (unless you just kill everyone).

There is also this (and I know you could argue about it just being literary style), that Kaladin during his fight with the Pursuer was feeding off the faith the crowd had in him (almost like stormlight, almost like a spren becomes what men imagine it to be in their hearts). Finally, you could say that Kaladin's movement was being powered by Odium, but on Roshar only Heralds have moved that fast. So the Stormfather got some of Honor's power, merged with his cognitive shadow, but I think Kaladin might have infused with his soul, something akin to an Honor Blade, part of Tanavasts soul. If Honor was shattered in Alethkar, perhaps part of it latched onto Kaladin. Does that remind you of any other series??

I think you all are correct when you say it is a spiritual wound. I think Moash thinks he deserves to have his eyes burnt out like Teft's and he is blind to the fact that serving Odium is not granting him peace. Blind to all the pain he has needlessly caused. Blind to the fact that even though he calls them friends he continual betrays them. I think when the oath pact is reforged he will go to Damnation by himself to give team Honor a repreve.

In terms of feats of strength, we should also look at what Dalinar did without Stormlight. Remember that bar fight where his friends tell him everyone lived... but some were crippled. And for awhile he went toe to toe with Szeth, with just a blade. I think we underestimate Dalinar. And that was a Dalinar without stormlight. Dalinar with blade (assuming he can pull an Ishar and just bond Oathbringer), glory spren plate. And in peak shape. I think he just kills everyone. The white plate, could be how glory spren manifest, although I thought it would be gold.

I think Dalinar's point about Kaladin being the best Soldier is right. Dalinar considers himself the best murderer. Odium agrees with this. When Dalinar completely gives into the Blackthorn, everyone and everything dies. My only concern is he is not as young as he once was. He is approaching 50. Is the reaction time of a 50 year old with stormlight as fast as the same person but when he was 25? Dalinar says Adolin is likely a better duelist than he ever was, but not a better murderer. There is a reason why Kaladin was Odium's second choice. The Blackthorn does not lose.

So, Rhythms of War is in the books. Where do things now stand? How are the humans doing compared to before ROW? For Starters they have two Bondsmiths. The Tower is now fully functioning. Navani has made lots of break throughs with fabrial technology. Kaladin is of the fourth ideal. Shallan must be getting close if not there already. Why do I mention Radiants of the fourth ideal? I mean int he grand scheme of things one or two people can't change the outcome of a war right? Well, Radiants of the 4th ideal seem to give the enemy pause, and are much harder to kill. The enemy finds them so imposing that they wanted Jasnah out of the tower before they attacked. Team Radiant has captured Emul. On the other side of things, the enemy has for the most part, caught up with fabrial technology. Or at the very both sides now have access to anti-voidlight and anti-stormlight. Some of Rabonials knowledge likely died with her. I'm not sure how many human casualties there were when the Tower was taken, but loss of life certainly was in favor of the fused. But on the other side, we don't know how many fused and regals died once Navani bonded the sibling. Overall, if before it was 80% chance of Odium winning the war I would now arbitrarily weight it as follows Radiants of the Fourth Ideal, +4 More Honor Spren willing to Bond (a few ink spren may also join the fight), +10 Bonding the Sibling and fully functioning Tower, +10 Killing the leading Rabonial and the Pursuer, +4 Getting rid of Taravangian as a spy, +4 A new Odium, (could be good or bad) we don't know that Odium wants to destroy mankind now that the vessel has changed, only that he wants to be free. (+/- 20) Losing Jakaved, -6 anti-void light, +10 anti-stormlight, -6 Capturing Emul, and rescuing Hearthstone, +5 So, now it seems to me like team Radiant has a 45% chance to win. Up from 20%. If Mr. T can talk to Dalinar and tell him what is going on, then could be everyone is on the same side. No drama or Passion in that though ;-)

I think it is worth noting that Adolin likely has some sort of (slightly enhanced healing and senses). Like Kaladin when he was a slave. Feeding on trace amounts of stormlight that stops internal bleeding. And Sanderson's use of these thugs always having easy victories and then watching a few of their buddies just die I thought was very effective. The whole thing likely lasted under 5 minutes. As far as Adolin. I see no reason why he wouldn't break all sorts of rules. He is already doing that with the Reshadium. He has a reverse Nale bond with Maya and he may form a normal Nale bond too. What would he do with two sets of plate.... One for the Reshadium, shard blade and shard shield for the win.