Master Silver

One thing to remember with Odium is that he does not like giving up his investiture. That is likely why he has lost contest after contest. Honor and Cultivation gave up more of their power to preserve Roshar. Odium seeing them sufficiently weakened kills Honor. Once he kills Cultivation he will need to destroy the planet to reclaim the investiture he has invested (sorry) in the planet/system. This is why he tells Dalinar he can not leave as he once thought, he needs to reclaim his power.

Jezrien's blade, Jezrien's (hopefully sane influence and memories on Moash)+ Bridge 4 memories and friendships... that smells like a redemption arc to me. If Dalinar can change from being a tyrant to a diplomat and bonding the Storm Father. Who knows about Moash. Someone is gonna give them 20 years to prepare by going to Braize. I know this line of thinking isn't original to me, and I know lots of people would hate a redemption arc. But a strengthened oath pact is the way to go. Get a breather, get organized and then invade Braize. It occurs to me that in Vorin theology, the Heralds after Aharietiam are said to have continued the fight to reclaim the Traquiline Halls. So what if in the second 5 books that is what they do? Maybe new heralds (some of the current main characters, bonded to the cognitive shadows of heralds take the fight to the fused for a change. I think one thing that could happen, for people that think bonding a cognitive shadow of a herald is stupid, this is exactly what Dalinar did. He has bonded what is left of Tanivast. Fuse Jezrien with a wind spren or honor spren, no clue how...dead shard Blades+trapped herald in a gem. Nice theory @Halyo_Alex & @QefkaRetro

Yeah the perpendicularity, and thereby protect the spren they love so much. After all shadesmar was invaded too. I haven't had enough coffee this morning, but the oath gates somehow can be manipulated to do what perpendicularity do, travel to and from shadesmar. I find that interesting.

Going off your observations Red Windrunner. I imagine something like this or at least I think it would be awesome. Rock-Horneater Warriors as squires, they protect the Horn Eater Peaks (Oath Gate) Teft- Bridge 13, main Windrunner Radiant troops Rlain-Listener Windrunners, (they protect Nerak, Oathgate), Sigzil: I kind of see him sticking with Kaladin, but if he does do his own thing (protecting the Azish oathgate (I'm pretty sure they have one) Lopen- honestly no idea, but someone has to stay at the tower. I don't think it will be Lyn. I do think a core group will stick with Kaladin, and also a core group will stay at the Tower of Urithru. But Kaladin I think has shown he belongs on the battle field. As does Adolin.

@SapphireHold A very good first post! Welcome to the 17th Shard! I hope that their is a reckoning between The Lopin and Moash and Lopin puts him down in a comically one sided fight :-p

To raise weapons against someone in anger doesn't necessarily indicate if you were a first born, second born or whatever. If the text doesn't indicate that they were there as warriors, then they might have been serving in other capacities. They watch the fight, and realize that Sadeas essentially let their Nuatoma kill himself that might make them angry. Dalinar, might have said I respect your right to this challenge but not have let them get themselves killed. Or given them a demonstration so they could really know what they were getting into. I do think Rock will have to grow into his new responsibilities, but I think he is wise enough to not have to learn the same lesson over and over again like Kaladin.

To Aminar's point about Rock being broken. In the Way of Kings, it is made pretty obvious that Rock has some form of weapons training. But refuses to use weapons. Could it be that he somehow was (which ever son was the warrior), and killed an older brother in an accident due to his arrogance. And now he is loathed to do any fighting. A promise that is broken when he saved Kaladin's lives. Rock may swear oaths more similar to Teft than Kaladin. Wouldn't that be something if he swore oaths 2-4 in succession and was the first Windrunner to manifest plate. And then said, "tis easy" and laughed.

Although you make a good point about Rock's mixed heritage, he is already on his way to being a Wind Runner as a Squire of Kaladin's. It wouldn't make sense for him to abruptly change to a different type of Radiant. If we get a Novella for him, he will likely level up when he decides to take on protecting his clan/nation. Just my thoughts

I was pointed to this thread. I was wondering what would happen if you put the gem with the thrill in the pommel of a shard blade. And ginger I agree. Old Gavilar had a lot of knowledge, put the sons of honor are still around

Had a crazy thought...shardblades (the dead ones), have a gem on the pommel that allows the shardholder to connect to the blade. The Thrill has now been captured in a gem. What would happen if that gem was placed in the pommel of a dead shard blade? Not saying it would be smart, but what would happen.

I don't know what Rock will do with the blades, but members of Bridge 4 who are squires can't use the blades. They will here screams. Also, the value of shard blades and plate continue to decrease. Scarcity...or the lack thereof.

As far as the we goes, Odium could have been including the unmade as part of the "we". Some of the unmade seem to be like his generals, while others, like the thrill act as hunting dogs.

True, and I suppose that makes him the perfect candidate for an honor blade. Your point about them serving something external in some ways makes the fifth idea somewhat problematic to my mind. But that is off topic.

He cares about his law lol. What made me think of it was Syl's words to Kaladin when he got involved in the plot to kill the king. She reminds him he is no skybreaker.

Moash, has been repeatedly betrayed by humans in authority. When Kaladin and him parted ways Kaladin was still growing (and he continues) as a person and leader. The revelation about the humans being the original void bringers in some ways validates everything Moash had done. And given different circumstances I could see Kaladin fighting alongside Moash and that group of singers. If they were let's say attacked by human bandits. Moash repeatedly says things about protecting his own, which now include bridge 4 and a group of singers. If push comes to shove Moash will turn on the Void Bringers to protect his own. He likely considers getting the honor blade as repayment for the singers robbing him of the blade and plate Kaladin had given him. I think Moash might become a Skybreaker. Nale is certain to recognize the blade as belonging to Jezrian. THAT will be an interesting meeting.

This is from the wiki. Here is the link https://stormlightarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Shardblade "Within his visions, Dalinar was shown roughly 300 Shardblades that were abandoned by members of two Radiant Orders. Dalinar estimated, at the time of the War of Reckoning, that there were less than 100 Shardblades in all of the world. Alethkar and Jah Keved own some twenty Shardblades each; the rest are spread amongst the weaker nations, including five Shardblades held by the Thaylen royal guards. Selay, and other kingdoms such as Herdaz, have only a single Shardblade apiece. Kharbranth[4] and the Unkalaki people[5] are not known to have any Shardblades." What is interesting is that there maybe 200+ blades and plate buried somewhere. Or the Shin may have them. Meaning they had 9 honor blades + two-thirds of the worlds plates and blades. Minor Spoiler- We know how living spren feel about the dead-eyes as they call them, but the only way that would stop the humans from using such a huge resource would be if they got no new Knights Radiant because of it.

When I say power not fading, I mean he still can create a perpendicularity. For Rashek,he only retained the power to move planets and change things for a few moments. Dalinar, aside from the power up of swearing the third oath (and those power ups fade, like Kaladin's upon swearing the third idea) , but the new ability to create Honor's perpendicularity remained. I think in general we are on the same page though

I agree with mathiau, I think Dalinar ascended the way Rashek did, but with less of the investiture of the shard available, if we compare feats between the two. One difference is that this ascension seems to be more permanent, even if it is to a lesser degree. Dalinar's power isn't fading. I think Odium was mostly surprised that the bond between Dalinar and the Storm Father seems to be making both of them stronger. How much more aware will the Storm Father been at idea 4 or 5.

Well if they were always a part of the Desolations, then that shoots my theory of them being the spren of the heralds. I know others have said that they were likely Odium's response to the heralds. Armoran getting possessed by one who seemed like a field general is evidence enough of that. What were they before they were unmade though, that is the question. And if instead of capturing them, like was done with the Thrill, people bonded them, would they become the made again and would that weaken Odium's power. Odium seems to get stronger every Desolation, so somehow that cycle needs to be broken. No clue how though.

Do we know when the unmade first made their appearance? I know that the Radiants have experience fighting them, but did the heralds? I think one of the unmade says, "First we were made, then unmade." Could it be that these spren originally went with the Heralds, but when the Heralds broke their bond somehow Odium was able to unmake their spren (which caused them to go insane). Remember how Kalidin becomes rubbish with the spear when he breaks his oath, and he is like could all of my skill have just been Syl. What if the same is true of the Heralds. Jezrin is a beast on the battle field because of the spren of courage and leadership which after he breaks his oath becomes the Thrill. Just a thought. Sorry if I dug up a really old thread.

Very good point concerning the investiture of the spren. There might be a much less tragic way to do it. Assuming that the Storm Father+ the honor blades is not enough. Remember how at Feverstone Keep, Dalinar said that their were way more blades and plates then they have on record. What if the shard of honor could also reabsorb this investiture? Not sure how that would be done. Gather all the dead spren/blades and plate and throw them into the perpendicularity, thus allowing the shard to reabsorb them. Whoever is the new shard holder would still be weaker than Odium, but with the help of Cultivation's help it would be a 2v1.

You mean more words costing more breath?? So would a three phrase command cost 2,000 breath as opposed to 1,000? Vasher does talk about people being able to do different things based upon skill (also that holding more breath increases skill). One more word than "destroy evil" but I don't think keep me alive is more complex of a command phrase than "destroy evil." Similar to "protect me" or "strengthen me." Anyway, just my thoughts. It could be that such a command phrase as "keep me alive" does the exact same thing as "protect me" if the visualization is the same. Brandon Sanderson often has magic have unintended consequences though

Well such a command could do all sorts of awesome things. Cure you if you are poisoned. Stop you from aging,or dying from aging. Keep sharp objects from putting sharp object like holes in you. Flight if you get thrown off a cliff. Food maybe if you are starving...okay maybe not. But still.

What about, "Keep me alive" (way better than protect me in my humble opinion).

What about this (it is along similar lines of what everyone else is saying but I like the specific wording because it reminds me of the chapter, "The Spear that would not Break." Fourth Idea: "I will not be broken by losing those I protect, but will save the ones I can." I think this idea would finally complete Kaladin's character arc, which seems to be where you end up at the fourth idea. Not perfect, but the nale bond has fulfilled its purpose. Swearing the fifth idea, makes you something more.