Master Silver

@Wyndle88 Do you think it is possible that the Shard Honor had to pour more and more of his investiture into the Heralds to fix the cracks in their spirit webs (craziness) thus weakening him further. I suppose the real question is, when did Odium actually strike the decisive blow against Honor? Before or after the Last Desolation? How long after the last desolation did the Recreance happen?

You are right that in comparison to creating a planet with all the people on it, The Oathpact & Urithuru would be minuscule. Not sure about the spren, BUT what matters is that it weakened Honor enough that he was no longer a match for Odium. Much like Preservation was slightly weaker than Ruin. Over time the stronger shard finds a way to win. If the creation of the spren continued to weaken Honor and Cultivation, then it makes sense that Odium eventually was able to kill Honor and drive Cultivation into hiding.

You are right that in comparison to creating a planet with all the people on it, The Oathpact & Urithuru would be minuscule. Not sure about the spren, BUT what matters is that it weakened Honor enough that he was no longer a match for Odium. Much like Preservation was slightly weaker than Ruin. Over time the stronger shard finds a way to win. If the creation of the spren continued to weaken Honor and Cultivation, then it makes sense that Odium eventually was able to kill Honor and drive Cultivation into hiding.

You are right that in comparison to creating a planet with all the people on it, The Oathpact & Urithuru would be minuscule. Not sure about the spren, BUT what matters is that it weakened Honor enough that he was no longer a match for Odium. Much like Preservation was slightly weaker than Ruin. Over time the stronger shard finds a way to win. If the creation of the spren continued to weaken Honor and Cultivation, then it makes sense that Odium eventually was able to kill Honor and drive Cultivation into hiding.

Interesting. Seith being a trained assassin might mean that he wipes out a good chunk of the fused. On the other hand one of the fused said most of them have not been reborn yet and that is why they lost. So Nightblood has plenty of evil left to slay

has it been confirmed that those who puffed away of the fused were dead dead? I know the Alethi soldiers puffed away, but can't recall about the fused or if it says that their spirits didn't simply return to the everstorm

I do think that Dalinar is going to need a shard blade to defend himself, and the way he was resisting fighting as a general for all of OB ultimately leading to him confronting an army alone, leads me to think he will rethink what he has done and try a more balanced approach. So he will need a blade that doesn't scream (I'd rather it be OB than an honor blade though)

And did the plate behave normally in that fight> If my memory serves me correctly it did. Have we seen Renarin "level up"? And in terms of all of the Kholin's becoming Radiants, didn't Syl say it is more likely to find multiples in a family. Maybe that was WoB

I think we all would say we want Adolin to revive Maya. One thing to note is that we have seen him in action with blade and plate, with no connection to Maya, but what would he look like in a fight now with the slight connection he has (and we must imagine that it is stronger after the battle and in the year since even if there are no more benefits). Also, and I need your help on this. Have we seen any Radiant use dead plate. I know Kaladin said something about plate interfering with his lashings, but was that other people's plate. I'm curious what if anything changes. Can a surge binder, like Rinarin heal his dead plate the way he heals people. Does the dead plate become more resilient or powerful when used by a surge binder. Because what we may see with Adolin and Dalinar are two people who have blades that only they can use and refuse to be summoned by anyone else, while at the same time not being bound by oaths.

One encouraging thing about that is the Stormfather still has his memory and can look back at past events with new understanding since he is much more aware than he has ever been in the past. The Nahle bond continues to change him and help him develop. In some ways, the Stormfather, plus the library of memories should give the Radiants a critial link to the past. Also what would happen if Dalinar super charges a dead set of plate or a dead blade. He seems slightly behind his son in terms of reviving a dead blade. Not having the blackthorn on the battle field seems like a mistake (even if he could only help fight for a few years, that would be thousands of Alethei troops saved and enemies slain

The way the glory spren were whirling about him at the end of OB I just figured next book everyone gets armor. They will need it, especially consider many of the fused sat this battle out. I don't think they (team Radiant? Team Honor??) can lose battles if Dalinar can create a perpendicularity every battle though.

And three surges. Adhesion, gravitation, and (the thing that makes stones come together) (cohesion maybe). It would also, assuming he gets his armor make him the the third strongest being on Roshar, although he may already be that.

This is sorta a side note, but related. Did Brandon ever say what would have happened if Dalinar bonded that honor blade? I am very curious what would happen now that he is a full Bond Smith (of the third Ideal right?). The Storm Father said he would become a Wind Runner without oaths and something more. Any idea what that something is?

@joesleepsalot that would be absolutely horrible, frustrating, heart breaking. I was kinda hoping that this first fight scene we see him in, he says, I will swear this ideal to defend my little brother, and then wrecks the fused.

@Gderu totally missed it. But you were right. I don't want Kaladin to die though lol

Very helpful, well that shoots my theory dead. At least the part about non-leaking stormlight (in sufficient quantities acting like divine breath). Thanks for going through the trouble of looking that up for me. Cheers

I guess I will have to believe you couldn't find where in the ginormous thread it was

Yeah era 1 mistborns have large limitations it seems like. All a windrunner would need to do is put as many lashings as possible on a wooden javelin (or any sharp stick and game over). mistborns can't really fly or even "fall up" they just leap tall buildings in a single bound. As for pewter, the way the Seith Son Son Velano knocked people about when infused with stormlight leads me to think Radiants are at least the match for them in speed and strength with storm-light. Also Radiants healing factor is insane. I think a better comparison would be an inquisitor or perhaps a mistborn inquisitor.

I'd love the Words of Brandon is it, on that. And being immortal like the Returned (which is what I am saying) is very different than being like the heralds or the void bringers. The returned could die, much like the Lord Ruler could die. All you have to do is injure them enough or take away their investiture, but as long as they are burning it (like the Lord Ruler) or retain their divine breath, they won't succumb to old age.

WAR BREAKER Minor Spoilers So I just finished listening to War Breaker, at the fifth heightening the gods become functional immortals, immune to aging so long as they keep their divine breath. Others have said that perhaps Radiants of the fifth ideal don't leak storm-light. If that is the case, then perhaps so long as they retain some storm-light in their bodies they also don't age. By the time Kaladin has been of the third ideal for awhile he also seems to have a little storm-light in his system. It seems like each magic system has functional immortals. In the mistborn series it is those that have a combination of allomancy and whatever keepers are (I forget the term). In War Breaker, it is anyone who reaches the fifth heightening. In Stormlight Archives it would be symmetrical if it was those of the fifth ideal, of course it seems like immortality revolves somewhat around being a cognitive shadow, so perhaps a combination of those two.

You know I've always wondered if the Heralds not going back to Baraz (Damnation) is what caused their insanity or perhaps their not directly drawing upon investiture from honor is what caused it. But either way it seems that the new Radiants are stronger than they were without Honor their to regulate their powers (we still aren't exactly sure what that means). I'm certain I've seen the phrase, "dangerous levels of investiture," but is that because it turns them into a sliver (like Rashik)? But I digress. What I'm getting at is that before their fall even Knights Radiants of the fifth ideal were seemingly not as powerful as the Heralds (even if they are more efficient). Side note, what does it take to become a cognitive shadow, and how similar/ different from a 5th ideal radiant is Kelsiar (magic systems aside). For Sky Breakers they become the embodiment of the Law. Syl talks a little bit about the nature of spren and how they take shape/feed off of human ideals. With each ideal I think we can all agree the radiant becomes harder to kill, (outside of the radiant, I don't think spren become easier to kill). So what would you call a cognitive shadow with a physical body? Sorry for the jumble of thoughts

Thanks for the welcome. I've been reading the forums and it just seemed like a good time to join. So that answer is easy for 9 of the orders. They died during the Recreance. There should be some in the Skybreaker camp. I only have audio books, so I can't be certain of the quote. But when Szeth-son-son-Vallano is asking about the ideas they say it has been hundreds of years since someone has achieved the 5th idea. I don't believe they said the order currently has none, only it has been centuries since someone has sworn that idea. And it is possible that Nale killed the original skybreakers with the 5th ideal. He is crazy. I'm not sayign they can't be killed, but that they no longer die of old age. Essentially, whatever it takes to kill a herald is what it takes to kill them. They could also be deployed watching over the other nations, leaving training to knights of the 4th ideal

SOME MISTBORN SPOILERS (sort of) So I have been thinking about that too. What if by swearing the fifth ideal you become a cognitive shadow of sorts (immortal, but with a body). So for Skybreakers in the fifth ideal they become they Law, sounds in someways how Kelsiear (became hope for the Ska). Also, if knights as they progress become better vessel for stormlight at what point would they become a silver? I think it is fair to say that the heralds already hold enough to be considered that. I'd put Heralds at the level of Vyn when she was drawing upon the mists or around the Lord Ruler, although it is hard to compare different magic systems. Syl gives us info on what spren really are, bits of power made manifest. As far as we know Spren cannot truly die, so upon swearing the fifth ideal, so long as the knight stays true to their oaths, they cannot die (at least not from old age). This leads me to speculate that the knights that we saw at Feverstone Keep were the very first Knights Radiant. Ancient Knights, they were the first. And because getting to the fifth ideal is so hard that those who make it had never broken their oaths. So when they all do it at once it shakes the knights radiants to their core. We get the first dead eyes (shard blades and plate), the orders of the knights radiant are left without leadership (and they also lose 100's upon hundreds of years of experience). I would also like to point out that immortality for the 5th ideal makes a perfect counter balance against the fused who are immortal (and their seem to be hundred's of them. You have high princes (the heralds) and then other high ranking light eyes.. What do you think?