Bliev

I vacillate on this so so much, and surely I will do so more as time goes on and I re-read the series yet again, but I’m wondering about this that Ishar says: He doesn’t say “Connection to Cultivation” but we know she fiddled with his spirit web too, and immediately after he says that we see Dalinar’s POV again so who knows if there was also a Cultivation connection there to sense. Who better to combine three shards than someone connected to them all? A shard of Colonialism and Conquest that combines growth/rules/hatred? It would not be a very satisfying ending for me, but could happen. Alternatively, if Odium is freed but Roshar is saved via an ascendency of Dalinar to Honor, I envision Cultivation being the architect of that and her motivations not being made clear until the Back 5 (where Lift is a main character and she is groomed to be the new Vessel of Cultivation) and Jasnah seeks to find out how to use her knowledge to save the Cosmere. Im using some hints from the excerpt from the Sixth of the Dust short story in the most recent newsletter for this, but given the timeline is likely hundreds of years in the future, it’s probably not as closely linked as I think. Lol

Cultivation is better than Honor at future sight, and it’s unclear how well Odium sees the future. So I doubt cultivation will be blindsided. I do agree that T will continue the plan, and may try to take out Cultivation, and even may succeed, but I’m doubtful that she’ll be unprepared for it.

I keep thinking combination is key, as foreshadowed by the entire Raboniel/Navani arc. Harmonies, as others have said. The issue is how fast will this happen. The champion battle is in 10 days, so I doubt we will get much more by way of radiant leveling up. But we have to get the whole Chasmfiend mystery resolved with the Singers, Szeth ha to cleanse Shinovar, Kaladin has to travel to Shadesmar to get Ishar, Dalinar has to warn the spren of what Ishar has been experimenting with, and, oh yeah, ghost bloods. So, a LOT needs resolving if book 5 is going to wrap up the major arcs in a satisfactory way. Some mysteries may be allowed to persist but I can’t imagine him concluding the arc without a satisfactory conclusion to our main 5’s journey. which brings me to nightblood. It’s supposed to play a critical role, hence Warbreaker as “prequel”, and now we see why. But NB’s journey can’t well be ended right now. Too many mysteries remaining. like the fact that THE NIGHTWATCHER AND CULTIVATION HAD THE SWORD BEFORE NALE GOT IT. yet another one of Cultivation’s little seeds she’s planted? I think so. Szeth was supposed to have NB at that moment. So now what does Cultivation see. Because she’s doing the absolute most right now.

Venli hears: The fact that she’s in the tower; but the voice is far away, and strictly femalen, indicates that it’s not the Sibling. The “pure rhythm” is related to the “old rhythms of Roshar” which suggest Cultivation. I don’t see that it would be the NW who, from our knowledge in oathbringer is still a spren like the Stormfather used to be before Honor died and not all that sensible to humanity. Definitely not sensible enough to determine the rightness of the oaths, I’d say.

@Toaster Retribution I want you to know that I just read that entire thing like a voiceover announcer for a bad teledrama, so, actually, thank you for that. lol Can he? Just remake them? I mean, I assume in theory, yes, but given we don't know exactly how he unmade them to begin with, I'm just cautious on that? We saw that the power liked when Sja-Anat pushed back, while Rayse didn't. Whose to say what Todd will do? This is one reason I think that perhaps he's not the perfect vessel and the power will tear him apart. He was perfect in that moment that the power was coalescing, but if Rayse's scheming and strategizing pissed the power off, how will it react to someone smarter?? Navani's research uncovered that Odium's investiture is angry and chaotic, but with an underlying logic. This doesn't seem to fit T well at all, imho. But perhaps I'm wrong on that. I wonder if we'll get another vessel change at the end of Book 5...

That's because he said he sailed with Longbrow, who was "400 years dead". So he's at least older than that, even though he's the youngest. I absolutely LOVE this take, btw. It fits perfectly and explains why they so rarely reproduce. Might also explain the "traitors" if we really think about it.

I disagree on this. Dalinar and SF famously fight one another. It seems a defining feature of bonding a godspren--they're so darned independent. But I think that's what makes their relationship likely to grow--they will both be forced to grow in order to sustain it. With that said, there's literally 10 days until the next book begins, so I sincerely doubt they will be able to fully explore that bond in any real way before the Big Showdown of Champions, unless Dalinar realizes that they can explore bondsmith powers together better than they can apart. Edit: or, rather, 10 days until the FINAL COUNTDOWN so the next book might start immediately for all we know.

That's one beautiful curve right there. Thanks for posting. (BTW, a couple of your images are broken for me, but that might just be my browser.)

The mental picture on this was indeed hilarious. lol

All. Of. This. lol I believe Wit was bested, but he'll figure it out. I also believe that it was probably a necessary point in our reader/relationship with Wit to see him bested. After all, we do see him as omniscient and omnipotent in most cases. But here he is...bested by an infinite power that he underestimated. I think it marks a turning point for us, where he will become much more important as part of the plot moving forward, and less of an observer/epilogue. I also agree...I see a lot of people expecting book 5 to end in utter destruction, and I'm like...LOOK, I know this isn't a HEA, but I do not expect GRRM when I read BS. lol I want satisfying not horrifying. Plus, we'd then have to wait like a decade to get to a resolution. So, yeah, I am hopeful that this is more like a second book in a trilogy type of feel, but I don't like the taste in my mouth about it.

Ah, but that's the catch. They aren't the "champion" so it doesn't count, right? Perhaps the rules aren't entirely clear to me, but I think it's just champion v champion, and that's the end of it. But a draw? Perhaps a draw...what happens if they *both* refuse to kill each other? The continuation of the current status quo?

I wouldn't take it super literally, though I agree it's a problem with the rattle itself. I like this theory because there's a reason that we see Dalinar so invested in Gavinor, bringing him to "battle" and teaching him swordplay. He could be tricked to be a willing Champion, he is young after all. And Dalinar would not be able to kill him, setting himself up for an accidental death or a death from old age, knowing that every day he creeps closer to being a slave to Odium's will. On the other hand, I really like the idea of an Honor/Odium shard, and the foreshadowing we get from Raboniel and Navani hints at that possibility. Oh, so much to wait for!!

Yeah, I agree. I have definitely mourned her. I don't think we will see her again. Though I think we will, much like the Tien connections OP made, see Shallan referring to Veil a lot as she continues her journey in war against the Ghostbloods. I had originally been somewhat ambivalent, if not opposed, to the idea of re-integration being the goal, but I think this was handled really well. As Veil being the first alter who held the secrets the whole time, but who realized that--much like Pattern--their attempts to protect had done more harm than good. Thought it was a fitting ending, though I will definitely miss her.

I also take from this what Navani uncovers, and from the tone that Eshonai sings in her final chapter: 1. Honor's tone: calm, structured, orderly, and powerful. Capturing a journey, moving forward, ever organized by oaths and progress. 2. Odium's tone: chaotic, angry, but with an underlying logic. Capturing the "burden of god's own divine hatred" bent on chaos. 3. Cultivation's tone: energy, growth and change. Capturing change and progress in a more natural, boundless way. I figure as these tones are the key to the investiture, that they probably captured the Intent of each. I think Rayse was trying to be too orderly--too strategic, and to focus on dominion more than pure emotional chaos. The power didn't seem to like it when he imposed his will on Sja-Anat instead of embracing her emotion and her "passion". It also makes me wonder though, if T won't have the same problem in the end. he, too, is trying to "save them all". But is that too much of his own will? Then again, it'll probably take thousands more years before it breaks him apart too.

Agree with the above: it was Dalinar. The in text evidence is pretty clear. But it does speak to Dalinar's unique bondsmith role with the death of Honor as it was the SF who was accepting such (e.g., he was the voice that the Lopen yelled at at the end of OB). The female voice I always interpreted as Cultivation (it would be the NW if Cultivation was dead, as I believe the the only reason the SF plays that part here is because of the death of Honor).

Well, I was kind of right. But not completely right. She did kill a spren, just not Pattern. lol

Yes, I agree--Shallan was pretty far along in her truths as a child. In Chapter 93 in RoW: That seems to imply (a) multiple truths (so at least level 3, but probably 4) and the ease at which they were spoken. I definitely agree we need some more WoBs about what was happening in WoK. Brandon noted in his newsletter that this chapter was the hardest to get right bc of continuity, so I'm sure he'll have more to say on it as time goes on. I thought she'd probably leveled up when Veil merged, which might be why Kelek was so lucid when she talked to him right after (i.e., the Heralds get more sane when they're around a Radiant who levels up/connects to the spiritual realm). I know smarter folks than I are speculating on this, but I think all of her in book progress so far has been with Pattern, but that her bond with Testament is frozen at where she broke her oaths. The reason that saying the new truths didn't repair her bond with Testament is because of her unique psychology: she had disassociated from Testament so wasn't reforging an old bond, and Intent, as we know, matters a lot. So I think she'll have to intentionally repair the bond to revive her completely.

I think they know, which is why they want to use FOS as a processing planet, taking birds after they've been turned into Aviar. I'm certain they know how it occurs, but it's clear they don't know how to reproduce that outside of Patji/First of the Sun, which seems to leave them stuck: if they want the investiture/product, they are forced to have an outpost on a backwards planet. I do think it's notable that Patji still seems unnavigable enough that the TOB/Rosharan won't try to go there themselves. I'm guessing they believe it's a primitive job for a primitive people, which is, in fact, a very colonial mindset, so it fits. Which is why I'm guessing the lowly Trapper in tune with the island will be the one to gather the resources to save it.

That's what I thought at first until he noted that his perfect pitch was off. I thought perhaps Todd had only messed with the one short term memory that revealed Rayse was no more. Then I concluded they must have been removed, but perhaps the investiture is merely corrupted now?

Yes, this was a *very* important epilogue for us Cosmere folks for sure. Brandon said he'd waiting a long time to write that Wit epilogue, so I think it must be a critical turning point of sorts. The question is--what kind? My thoughts: 1. We have been waiting for a Wit/Rayse face-to-face for a while, particularly since his letters in the epigraphs. So maybe that's what makes it important--a fulfillment of something we've been waiting for. 2. We find out how Wit stays so sharp, compared to other immortal-esque beings. So maybe it's the lore that makes it important. 3. This is the moment that Wit loses his advantage, and will ultimately be his undoing. So maybe it's Cosmere-wide plot-related that makes it important. Or all of the above. lol A couple things here--I don't think T-Odium could have stolen or changed too many memories. He notes particularly that he's bound by the "do no harm" clause, so how many memories/breaths could he have stolen without "causing harm"? He also knows now what Wit's done, at least in terms of which memories were stored, so he has more intel than Wit does--Wit still doesn't know that Rayse is dead, no one does. The question is when will he realize his breaths are gone...he does notice his lack of perfect pitch at the end. The key will be how many memories are missing and which ones...

I believe that we’re seeing Cultivation being true to her Intent: everything needs to change and grow, including vessels, endless wars, and Cosmere politics. Ans she’s happy to be the “gardener” who prompts such growth. I don’t think this is a master stroke so much as part of a plan to cultivate new vessels for the powers (including her own) and to attempt to change the future via her “pruning”. She sees the future better than Odium does, and I doubt she is being hoodwinked nor trying to use him as a puppet. I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t want Odium freed from Roshar, but I envision this being part of a plan of growth and not destruction, per se. I do doubt whether T is precisely the “perfect” vessel that he thinks he is—we have copious evidence this book that Odium is chaotic, with an underlying logic, and I don’t think the power will quite bend to his “will of protection” the way he thinks it will, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he were freed at the end of book 5.

That was my original thought too, and the fabrials for sure are the sibling manifest, but then I got to thinking that spren manifest in the PR seemed to be metal/gemstones and not necessarily building stone, re: the stone in the tower speaking to Venli. But I think we should take kal’s word for it for sure.

I thought that Navani implies that the tower is the Sibling’s “body” manifest in the physical realm, much like soulcasters: So while Fabrials capture spren, soulcasters *are* spren. Navani says to the Sibling: So I think the Sibling made the tower, well at least the fabrials?

Based on Navani’s POV in RoW this would be Honor IMO: I think the Prudence shard for sure (or wisdom, but I know Brandon liked the Prudence name in a wob so I’ll go with it), and I like the idea of Justice, which is different than order and oaths, and is more related to connection among people, but to an external sort of truth/standard.

I think that was referring to actual children of the vessels, not necessarily children of the power—there are probably hints here to how spren reproduce, going to places where investiture coalesces and providing Intent. My take on this was not a literal child, but a spren child, where both powers combined their Investiture and used their Intent to create a spren. Like how Honor created the SF or cultivation the NW.