Bliev

If he were at 10th heightening, the scarf would have been white, not gray. He must have learned mental awakening/commands along the way. Or maybe we just couldn't hear it on screen.

i don't think this precludes him from knowing about endowment--it could be just him wondering if there was a greater purpose to why she did it or not, although I grant you that it seems like he's not quite sure. Maybe he doesn't have his full memory back in Warbreaker yet? In terms of this chapter-- I JUMPED UP AND DOWN QUITE LITERALLY. This was amazing. Kal's response to his "demotion" seemed spot on, and I'm so happy to see him MAYBE start to empathize and care about Rlain at a different level. He was acting like a commander in the chapter where he ordered the spren to consider Rlain. But he wasn't acting empathetic. Similar to Kal's reaction to Adolin's attachment to Maya. He can't see anything but the possibility of another solider, another Radiant. He has to learn to listen more. In terms of Zahel...oh I love that he scoffs at Azure, mentions Cultivation by name, calls Szeth a cognitive shadow, knows that Nightblood is there, calls Wit an a-hole, etc. etc. This chapter is gold. I do think the nugget about Nalthis being younger than Roshar is interesting. Has anyone asked Brandon if Nalthis existed pre-shattering??

@DeployParachute yes, the question of who the destroyer could be is really interesting, and I think it really depends on when the blurb was written as to what might be more likely...and that would be a great Brandon question. I can't find that anyone has asked it? But I'm usually pretty bad at sorting through all the WOBs. @Wyndleblade I agree, "us" as the Heralds would be awkward. Us as Sleepless? Maybe? maybe they made a pact or agreement that we don't know about yet? Maybe something about the Dawnshards that explains why folks like the cook in the Kaza interlude guard it with their lives?

@Wyndleblade what if "us" is the heralds? or Sleepless who conferred with Honor and agreed with the decision to do the oathpact? After all--who needs "redeeming"? Probably the Heralds or Radiants. Why would the Sleepless need redeeming? Or humanity? @Theoryspren parsed "will" vs. "may". @Wyndleblade parsed "us". But what if the key word there to parse is "redeem"? Definitions of Redeem: compensate for the faults or bad aspects of (something) (of a person) atone or make amends for (error or evil). save (someone) from sin, error, or evil. Alternative definitions that could be fascinating: pay the necessary money to clear (a debt). fulfill or carry out (a pledge or promise). I wonder what they mean by "redeem". If it were just about saving the world from odium, it would probably say "save", right?

I said this on another thread a few days ago, when someone speculated that Shallan would be the “one who destroys”. I will link the thread later when I get to my laptop. I had a few questions: 1. When was the blurb written in-world? Concurrent to the action? Or post hoc? 2. I think that “fortune” mostly foretold Dalinar as Odium’s champion (renarin’s vision, Odium’s certainty, cultivation’s fear that Dalinar may become a tool). Fortune is a tricky thing, so how well a Sleepless can use it is important to know. 3. And, yes: who is “us”? Team Honor? Humans? Sleepless? Rosharans? That’s important.

Yeah, like @Rainier, they're focused on building an energy monopoly by any means possible. That's one reason I chose "mafia" because it kind of fits--money, loyalty, ends justifies the means mentality, etc.

This is really helpful, thanks. So the idea is that Formless may be either OG Shallan or remnants of everything left over that Shallan can't yet make sense of about herself, and that they somehow coalesce to work with Mraize in blinks of moments that are shrouded in amnesia, such that the other personalities are tricked into thinking that Formless not yet fully formed, and thus a potential risk and not a current one. I still am a bit lost on the idea that Veil, Radiant, Shallan and pattern would all be in the dark about another fully operational personality, given the textual evidence we've received thus far. But Brandon has succeeded in keeping us off kilter on Shallan's state for like 3 books now, so who really knows. lol

@Dark_Sun77 I believe Brandon confirmed that her father and mother were biologically related to her.

I feel like the Fleet story, while a vehicle for Kaladin's character growth and an allegory for "journey before destination", also is a message about humans besting the storms, and signaling the importance of Shinovar to winning the war. Fleet has to go through the mountains and it's not until he gets to Shinovar that the storm wears out--but the catch is, that Fleet dies when he gets there. Maybe it means nothing...or maybe it means that unlocking the secret of Shinovar can win the war, but it will cost him his life? The clever moon. I LOVE that story. I actually read it to my daughter as a bedtime story once. :-) I'll have to think about that one some more.

I interpret this a bit differently. I think Kaladin needs to learn from his father how to cope with the idea that you can't save them all, even as Lirin needs to understand that his son's vision of protection and saving is different from him--same values, different method. But I think they are very similar--SO dogmatic, SO invested. Lirin has learned to shut off that emotion--Kal has not. Both could use a healthy medium, I think. I think the distinguishing factor here is that Lirin doesn't think you can kill to protect--he thinks this is antithetical and it is not justified. Kal's order embraces the idea that sometimes protection requires violence. I think good people can sit on either side of that philosophy--but father and son will have to agree to disappoint the other, and still love one another, if they are to progress their relationship.

yeah, I mean, this is precisely what Kal was dealing with in WOK, right? Syl and he were talking about how conflicted they felt killing the Listeners at that time. He's absolutely internalized much of Lirin's teachings, and still has. He still weeps for those he cannot save. He still does not accept when others make choices that put themselves in danger. He is in so many ways his father. But isn't that the way of many children? We become our parents in ways we don't quite understand, but eventually, if we're lucky, we come around to understanding later in life. I think both of them are reasonable. But they have to accept the other, regardless. Glennon Doyle (the author) has a chapter in her most recent book that says this: She says this is particularly true when it comes to disappointing your parents. I feel that this is particularly apropos for Kal and Lirin: Kal cannot avoid disappointing his father unless he disappoints himself. But the role of a parent is to accept that you've raised them up to make those decisions themselves, and your disappointment is about *you*, not them. I absolutely cannot wait to see them delve deeper into this.

Yeah I’m surprised I caught it this time. I usually forget completely. :-) I loved his comment about living for thousands of years...how muddy your memory is after 1 year, or 10–what happens after millennia? What do you remember? Probably only the things you’ve reinforced with very strong emotions.

yes, he directly confirmed Zahel in chapter 15 last night too on Reddit. *squee*

Last night Brandon said as much on Reddit! To wait for next week's chapter to see more of him. yay! Also: Yes, this is my read too. Why would a god like Odium care about something as unimportant as mortals, whether human or singer? he doesn't. they are tools. and his end game is freedom and consolidation of power. He made a mistake and got himself stuck, and now he needs to be free, to kill Cultivation, and to be about his business. This has ever been his goal. Which reminds me of the power plays in Mistborn E1: I think this is probably similar.

I think that this is a really cool theory. It would be cool if the real Ishnah was incapacitated and Iyatil is impersonating her with a Lightwoven disguise, put there by squire or another Lightweaver they've co-opted. It would further explain Mraize's comment about being intrigued by what Lightweavers can do...but wouldn't negate his implication that the GB have no Radiants. Are they all in disguise during this time anyways? I'll have to go look at it... Also, Mraize all but promises that this mole would be helpful to Shallan if she needed them, not that they would be antagonistic, necessarily. what does that portend?

That's exactly how I've interpreted it as well. I have seen a lot of folks (including that poll on who Ialai's killer is) suggest that Formless is already a realized alter who is a GB operative, which was what I kind of wanted to understand more.

I always felt this just meant he could see that she was lightweaving and had bonded a Cryptic. He probably didn't know that it was *her* he was going to see when he arrived at that fair, but seeing her presence and her bond meant that the Desolation would soon begin ("unnatural forces"). But it could definitely be deeper than that!

Yeah, agreed. I think that sounds right. Whatever is being planned with Urithiru has to happen first, but he's unhinged enough that as soon as he's allowed, he's going to go for Kal. I'm thinking there's only one more battle between them, and it will in the midst of a thwarted Urithiru attack, and while Leshwi is battling him...but this could result in Leshwi's attempting to protect him? I don't know. So many possibilities. The foreshadowing here with Venli's comments about Leshwi's interest in Kal is surely important.

@DeployParachute I think I agree with you here, that Shallan is a likely "destroyer" if she is not careful. BUT, I wonder, however if the cover-writer (a sleepless from that time, right?) is thinking of Dalinar? Because fortune foretold he would be Odium's champion, right? That's from WOK, but was the cover written concurrently, in world?

I've been re-reading some threads on this trying to understand, as I am finding it difficult to understand how the intricacies of one specific common theory would work. My summary of the argument I have seen is thus: Formless is a fully developed identity within the Shallan "collective". Formless is likely working with the Ghostbloods. Formless likely killed Ialai. (Some alternative arguments I've seen, that I'm not addressing here are: Formless is childlike Shallan who must be acknowledged before healing can happen, or Formless is the OG Shallan.) The textual evidence we have thus far for Formless is: Chapter 13 Chapter 12 Chapter 9 And the doubts about her "realness": Chapter 7: Chapter 9 Chapter 12 Here are my questions, which maybe y'all can help me think through? How can Formless be a fully realized identity without Shallan, Radiant, Veil and Pattern knowing, or being suspicious? Adolin seems to know when she switches personas, has he never met Formless? Her squires who go on missions with her, have they never met Formless? If Formless is a GB, how can Mraize be sure he can communicate with her and train her and trust her if she doesn't come out to play? If Pattern isn't aware of Formless, is Formless not a Radiant (e.g., can't Lightweave or use Pattern as a shardblade)? How does that work? She states she hasn't had continued memory loss, but we know she's an unreliable narrator. But she's living in Urithiru and married--wouldn't someone have noticed if Shallan has black outs where she doesn't remember recent events? Thanks!

That's a good idea. (confession: i still have no idea what all the surges mean and i just gloss right over those parts lol. I am just like "oh, right, magic.")

@PrinceGenocide Yes, I wonder if she took her cue from the Ashynite magic. Brandon said this on Reddit last week: Which definitely could be something a connection-cohesion (I get those mixed up sometimes)-like Fused could manufacture as a plague, right?

I though that too. And that there was some evidence of early shardplate during Thaylen Fields? Although I think Jasnah straight up told her she doesn't have it (see quote from OB below). Lightweavers are weird, so maybe they don't get it until they're full Radiant?

Agreed. I think this is just another example of the Fused guessing, or not having full info. But this new "Scholar" fused seems dangerous for that reason. An evil scientist if you will.