alder24

Yes, there were spren on Roshar before, but during the Shattering all investiture got associated with one of the 16 Shards. But later Honor and Cultivation came, invested the world and created more sprens, so all sprens now are mainly of Honor and Cultivation, Sapient spren didn't exist before.

Oh guy, that was a lot to take. It was great. Spoilers for more:

All sprens are a mix of Honor and Cultivation. Passionspren are attracted to passions like love but also by the Thrill (by Coppermind). I think that Venli noted that Odium being Passion is a lie, because he doesn't care about love, but being attracted to the Thrill might suggest they might have some Odium's investiture in them. Likely not much, just a tiny bit.

That's the case, it was said in RoW that Odium is so much invested in Roshar, that it's natural part of it like Honor and Cultivation, and his pure tone is part of the Roshar as much as pure tone of Cultivation is. And I think it was said it has been like that for a long time, at least since the False Desolation and BAM capture.

I don't think there would be a bead. This is a sentient entity, far more invested than a simple stick, it has a soul representation, not a bead. Shardblade summoned to PR would look like Shardplate from CR - and we know how Shardplate looks from CR, Adolin tried to take his Shardplate to the diplomatic mission to CR in RoW, but it didn't went through the Oathgate, he saw his Shardplate from CR as "something that glowed blue", not as a bead. Both Shardplate and Shardblade are spren, so they look alike from CR, as a glowing blue shape, not a bead. The same with Nightblood - it looks like a dark smoke in CR, not a bead. They are sapient, they have souls, they are more invested, they're not objects.

It wasn't Trellium spike, it didn't have red cast and spots on it, like all Trellium has. They did talk about total Investment, saying that spike it 5% invested. TLM ch 47 This means that Allomantic powers would fill up the spike more, how much is very hard to estimate, but single won't fully fill up the spike. If 5% comes from raw, innate investiture, then stealing powers would take something like 10-25%, based on the fact that you can steal more than one power with a single spike, but they don't know how, so even inquisitor's spikes weren't full So if they steal from regular people, who have lower Allomantic potential (because of weaker Preservation's fragment in them), then stealing from Allomancers/Feruchemist would take more soul, as you're stealing more than from non-metalborn. But the spike they used was thin but long (6ft long), slightly bigger spikes, like inquisitor's spikes, could likely hold a bit more, but still not enough to hold 100 people worth of stolen powers. Doing just some math for example, if 5% is the average you steal from people with low Allomantic potential (average 25% potential), then stealing from Allomancer would fill up the spike up to 4 times more, up to 20% for a single power. But then because Set used a thin spike, using a bigger spike would give you 4x more space, therefore you could fit in total 20 powers in a single large spike. Not even close to 100. But that's just relying purely on assumed numbers. I think in inquisitor's spike you could fit at most 4 powers, as that number would make more sense (4 quadrants with 4 power, one spike for all powers from each quadrant etc). And if you need investiture from 20-30 to manifest a single power (which fills up that thin spike fully), then bigger spikes would fit much less than 20 powers, closer to 4 powers, fitting my belief. It might, but good luck forcing people you want to spike to blank their identity, how would you even know they did that and not pretend? Each spike creates a hole in your soul. While the difference between low invested spike and high might not be that big, for me it makes sense that the more spikes it contains, the bigger hole it makes, as there is more stolen soul that needs to be fitted in your soul. But it's not like a single spike containing 10 powers would make as big a hole as 10 separate spikes with a single power. But it's a guess on my part.

While they're rare, they're still visible in the night sky quite often, they might be very rare in CR, but in PR they're not that rare to make them not a valid candidate for a plate spren. Logicspren are rare in the east, yet they are plate spren, Windspren are very rare in CR, but they are making plates. So why not Starspren who were witnessed by Kaladin as early as WoK ch 40? Rarity doesn't mean nothing when we're talking about Radiants who attract their spren to them. And just look how much in common they have with Highspren - Starspren for Skybreakers who have Highspren for Radiant spren, looking like a black tear in the air with stars shining within. I don't know how much clearer I can get. Kaladin's plate isn't made out of Bindspren, Jasnah's plate isn't out of Transformationspren, so why Skybreakers would have Gravityspren for a plate while they have less in common with gravity than Windrunners?

It will, but like other episodes it will be in US only, I think (poor me), from the description of the last trailer on Disney Channel YT: "Watch the full episode on Disney Channel YouTube on Saturday, April 8th at 10:30PM PT."

Now when I think of this, I don't think you would be able to heal back Breath - you would need to give the same amount of investiture (at least) as the Breath had, which would make your proposal not economical. Extracting Breath, and giving Breath equivalent of investiture in F-gold health isn't a good business model unless you just want to get Breaths. But I doubt you could even do that. You gave up a piece of your soul, your Breath, voluntarily, this might change your ideal spiritual image, to which healing is looking at, preventing you from healing it back. The effects of Drabness are because you’re now significantly less invested than you were while having your Breath, therefore to counteract this you would need to be more invested, as simple healing won't change it (at best it would heal any illnesses). Your soul might not perceive this as a damage done to it at all.

New topic? The Owl House in the name? I can't miss it! I'm not ready! I don't want it to end! It's too soon! I didn't even watch any teasers. Is it bad that my favorite character is Belos? It's just soo good to see such a mysterious at the beginning, later a menacing and scheming villain with such well written motivations, powerful, but with severe limitations and consequences for using his power. Such a great villain. But the Amity is right behind him! And poor Hunter as well. Well, I'm worried for Eda or Camila because Dana doesn't like happy endings, I fear that one of them will die. At the very least people will get separated, either Luz will stay in the Boiling Isles, Camilar will return to the Human Realm, or Luz will return, Amity will stay. But that's very end, earlier Hunter and Belos will have a final clash, and Flapjack will be avenged (Hunter needs to face him for the last time), Luz will be playing Collector's new game, talk to the Titan and with King they will convince Collector that they can be just kids, and have fun without harming anybody, and Eda (if still alive) will adopt Collector too.

And here still Odium has much greater capacity, because he has more power to use than Renarin will ever have. But that's what is happening. Their future visions both interfere with each other. RoW ch 54: And confirmed by WoBs: Odium's future vision isn't fully blocked by Renarin, it's split into too many different possibilities to be useful, he can't predict as well as in the other cases - that's why there was a "blackness" which Taravangian saw, it was Odium's uncertainty about Renarin's future.

It's not that it could had happened before, it could, if both sprens would be willing to share the bond. And spren don't like to share their bond. And there are limits of how much soul can take: But yeah, any person who can be a Bondsmith and any other Order at the same time might get some very interesting and crazy power combinations. They can boost their own surges, create their own light, have new resonances, not to mention what they could do with connections.

No, it's about future vision. Renarin, a human, being able to draw from three Shards at once, would not be even close with the amount of raw power accessible to him compared to a Shard like Odium. There is just no comparison. Stormlight/Lifelight/Voidlight is just a tiny fraction of Shard's total power. And a human can't draw more power than Shard has in normal circumstances. The closest human can get is during Ascension, when he draws in all the power of the Shard, becoming that Shard. Future vision is the reason Odium can't see well close to Renarin. Because Renarin can see the future, he can react to it, and change the future, which changes his future visions, and he can change the future even more. Odium sees the future mostly clearly around other people, he sees mostly things that are certain in close future, but if he looks close to Reanrin, now he sees every single future Renarin sees and all his actions he can take base on those future visions, and that changes Odium's future visions, spliting them into more and more actions and reactions he can take. It's like Mistborn spoilers: That's what Renarin is doing. He can look into Odium's future actions, which changes the actions people take, which changes the future, which changes the way Odium will act, which changes the visions Renarin sees, which changes the actions people take, and so on and so on, making it very hard for Odium to predict anything around Renarin even though he is a Shard. Close future that Odium normally sees as a certainty, now is split into multitude of different possibilities each equally as likely to happen.

I don't think he would bond with the Nightwatcher, he doesn't look like a Bondsmith, he certainly has characteristics of Edgedancer. Bonding Nightwatcher isn't just about connection to Cultivation (everybody on Roshar has one) but about being worthy of being her Bondsmith. Lift bonding Nightwatcher is something that people theorize, because of her boon given to her by Cultivation, and she is one of the three people that met with her, and now one of those is Odium, second one is bonded with Honor remains, likely to restore Honor, so many think Lift will became Nightwatcher Bondsmith as well, and even Ascend to Cultivation later. But yes, if Adolin becomes a Nightwatcher Bondsmith, there will be 3 Kholin Bondsmiths.

Inquisitors like Marsh had 9-11 spikes, mostly single Allomantic ability from base 8 metals + Atium + Feruchemical healing + linchpin spike. So they mostly didn't have the same power doubled. But Marsh was a natural Seeker, so his A-Bronze was almost double in strength. And some inquisitors were full Mistborn before, which would make them twice as strong in every ability gained by spike than normal Mistborn. On top of that, they had decades to practice their skills in Allomancy, making them better, and healing is a game changer in all fights. Steelsight also can give them a slight advantage in a fight, and almost unlimited access to Atium for those of them who had that spike is as well very important. But mostly, they were not alone, they worked in groups (which is called a murder!), and facing off several inquisitors at once is a huge deal. On top of that, having several spikes makes them more invested, which increases their lifespan a bit - how much I don't remember if there were some numbers in books, but a bit longer. Most Inquisitors were made like Marsh, preferably with "fresh" spikes, given straight from their donors, to minimize hemalurgic decay. So normal Inquisitor would have Allomantic strength around 0.9 of normal Mistborn/Misting. HoA epigraphs, ch 37 But after TLR death and freeing Ruin, he could very likely give them multiple spikes of the same ability to make them even stronger. But even during Ruin times, they didn't know how to compound.

You mean this? SA 5 spoilers: We don't know how characters will react in SA 5, we have to wait for Brandon to write it first.

I see few problems with it, preventing it from happening. First is that you can't fit so much into a single spike - TLM showed that spike can fit 20 people worth of pure innate investiture, single Allomantic ability would likely fill it even more. Secondly, identity contamination. Thirdly, you're still spiking dozens of different spirit webs into your web, the "hole" in your spirit would have to be much wider to fit all of that together, so I think it would basically act like multiple spikes, not one, creating hole big enough to not only allow for hemalurgic control, but also cap you on the amount of power you gain from that spike (set up by Harmony). And to add more - it would drastically deteriorate your mental health - dozens of different souls stample to your in a big hole, that's not healthy at all.

They would take the shape of a spaceship? Or the whole nearest star system? That's a good question.

That's interesting, I've missed this. I wonder now is there any connection between the number of basic metals and the number of Shards? Or is that something independent from Shards, derived from spiritual properties of metals themself before the Shattering? Metal has a big significance in Cosmere likely both before and after the Shattering. But I think that the number 17 isn't about the new Shard, but about the worldhoppers organization, The Seventeenth Shard. Its name was chosen deliberately, and they have a strict non-interventionist philosophy. SA letters spoiler: Or, going back on Scardial, number 17 being repeated through the book is foreshadowing that Wayne will ingest 17th metal - Lerasium. The book title is The Lost Metal after all, the book is focused heavily on the possibility of creation of Atium and Lerasium, and Wayne is the first person after more than 300 years to use old god metal (except for Marsh). And I think that's the case, it's a clever foreshadowing from Brandon, that Wayne will use god metal in the end. It's worth pointing out that Sazed could bring Atium and Lerasium back but he don't want to do that:

Oh god... Giving Rashek, a person with overpowered abilities, Radiant abilities on top of his own would be truly an overkill. Now he can likely fuel his Allomancy and Feruchemy with Stormlight, and compound his Radiant powers with Nicrosilminds, to whatever outcome. And gave him a Shardblade and a Shardplate. I think you might have created a god. Susebron with Nightblood stands no chance. Ishar might have some chances. A fully trained Bondsmith as well. And I doubt there is more that could stand a chance, and even them would have a hard time, as every single Allomantic power Rashek has is on par with Lerasium-Mistborn duralumin strength now. He's savant in most of the metals (and abilities), and if he has access to Atium, than it is almost impossible to defeat him (if Atium burned with duralumin let Elend see fully into SR, is that what Rashek can normally see when burning it?). Bondsmith can't even do a surprise attack on him from CR, as Rashek has a spren now that watches his back, on top of his BoM level steelsight and extreme A-bronze. Elantrain likely could do some crazy stuff, so he also stands a chance against the New Lord Ruler. I think I know what would be his 4th Ideal - crusade against Scadrial to take it back.

Yeah, I realized after writing it that Obligators were always from noble houses, but I came up to the same conclusions as you, because of the slave society. The most important numbers, and most uncertain, are the percentage of Misting in the population and proportion of Mistborn to Misting, but even with some variations, it would still put the number of Mistborn in high tens or low hundreds.

Remember, in the early days of The Final Empire Allomancy was so strong that Mistborn didn't need duralumin to control hemalurgic constructs - single zinc/brass Misting was enough to control Kandra. HoA ch 21 Apparently Kandra were hunted and killed for the first few centuries, this shifts the timeframe of when Allomancy was strong enough for singular Mistborn/Misting to control Kandra up to this point at least. It's really hard to say how many Mistborn there were. TenSoon said (WoA ch 22) that during early centuries of the Final Empire there were more Allomancers than when Vin was alive, which makes sense because Allomantic genes were stronger. Looking at Straff and his kids, he had an unknown number of kids, but only one of them, Zane, was a Mistborn, and 18 was Mistings, but Mistborn were even rarer than that, as Breeze, Ham and Clubs have their own Misting teams. The best we have is WoB about the number of Mistings/Ferrings in Era 2, but that's when everyone could be a Misting, in early Era 1 it was mostly nobles, so you would have something like 1% of an 1% of total population. So let's try to estimate something like that. We know population of the Final Empire during times of Vin: So it's around 100 mil. Using Medieval Europe population numbers, and growth rate per century, we can estimate how big was empire's population in earlier centuries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_demography#Demographic_tables_of_Europe’s_population Average growth rate per century is around 10%. In 500 years Europe population grow by 60% from 56.4 to 90.7 mil. This mean that in the year 500 of TFE, there was around 60 mil people, 54.5 mil in the year 400, 49.5 mil in the year 300, 45 mil in the year 200, 40.9 mil in the year 100, and around 37 mil in the year 0. The percentage of nobility in medieval Europe was around 3%. Clergy was 5-10%, but let's not count them, only nobles. However I think that in fully enslaved society those numbers would be even lower, but let's assume there were 3% of nobles in the Final Empire. In the year 100, there were 1.2 mil nobles, in the year 200 1.3 mil, in the year 300 1.5 mil. From this, based on the WoB, which said that 2% being Misting/Ferring is too high, let's assume that only 0.1% is the correct number. and taking only nobles into account, as among Skaa at that times it would be far lower, hidden and uncommon, it gives us: In the year of 100, there were 1200 Mistings, in the year of 200 there were 1300 Mistings, in the year of 300 there were 1500 Mistings. And let's again assume that Straff's 1:19 proportion is the correct one in the early ages of TFE, that gives us: In the year of 100, there were 63 Mistborns (direct descendants of the original 9), in the year of 200 there were 68 Mistborns, in the year of 300 there were 79 Mistborns. I think these numbers look "reasonable". Mistborn were rare, Breeze said it to Vin when they first met. Since the year 300 we can assume that genes began rapidly deteriorate and Mistborn numbers started to drop in favor of Mistings (from 1:19 to lower), and the percentage of people that were Misting would drop lower from 0.1%, but the genes were more mixed into the Skaa population so the overall numbers of Mistings started to rise a bit. Even though the population would continue rising up to 100 million people, the number of Mistborn would not exceed 79 anymore, as, like TenSoon said, there were more Allomancers in the early centuries of TFE than later. This would eventually tie up nicely with low dozens of confirmed Mistborn in the final years of TFE, lot's of Misting among skaa, nobles and the Ministry, There was around 20-30 Inquisitors at that time, each of them required around 9 Allomantic spikes, but they lived a bit longer, and spikes can be reused, that would mean Inquisitors alone would require around 200-300 Mistings/Mistborns every 2 centuries to create new members - and those were captured among Skaa mostly. Most of those Misting/Mistborn would eventually end up in Luthadel, as that was the center of the Empire, and if your noble family had a Mistborn, then they could risk rising up among most important nobles in the Empire. The same would go with Skaa and the Ministry - it's easier to hide in the city of 1 million people, and the Ministry needed Mistings for their hidden Soothing stations in the city. Mistborn found among Obligators would become Inquisitors, and those among Skaa would be most likely caught and spiked to steal A-Atium from them. What do you think? Looks good or too low/high?

That was the original deal between Ruin and Preservation, now fulfilled. But that was kind of the fault of Ruin who was pushing for fast destruction, even though he claimed that the end will come sooner or later, he wanted it to happen sooner. But you know, as long as you cause some destruction, you'll be ok, it doesn't need to be on Scadrial, or the thing that was created, you could destroy some Autonomy's Avatars and her business on other world and it will be ok

End-positive doesn't mean that the power is created, it means that it comes from an external source, in case of Allomancy it's coming from Preservation directly. End-neutral means that power comes from the person using it, that's Feruchemy, it's fueled by your own body, and power is neither gained nor lost during that process. End-negative means that some power is lost in the process - Hemalurgy. Magic systems, invested arts, aren't created by a Shard, they are natural manifestations of Shard's influence with the world they're investing, and between themself if on that world there is more than one Shard. They have some influence over that invested arts, but they didn't create them directly. That's why even Ruin can fuel Allomancy, despite that Allomancy comes from Preservation. Feruchemy is both of Ruin and Preservation.

Kelsier isn't a god/Shard, nor is he considered as such (outside Survivorism which is a religion). He was a Shard but is no longer. He is a Cognitive Shadow - after his death, his soul got invested with lots of investiture, and became permanent. But that just strongly connected him to Scadrial to the point where he can't leave that system. Moreover he doesn't have a body, he is stamped to one with a spike, but that's not the same. He doesn't want investiture for himself, he wants to democratize metal arts and access to investiture among Scadrian. SA spoilers: And no, Shards also can't go to another world and grab investiture from it. They are also bound to the star system they're investing, and can't just grab investiture of other Shard.