robardin

Wait, what? I think you are thinking of Venli, who is probably unique in terms of having both a Voidspren in her gemheart granting a Regal form (envoyform) while also possessing a Nahel bond to a lightspren as a Willshaper? It's probably that combination that allows her to fuel her Surgebinding with Voidlight as well as Stormlight. I don't think she ever needed Voidlight to maintain envoyform, or to make use of its Connection powers; she drew in Voidlight to look into Shadesmar, one of her Willshaper abilities. So how she's gaining access to Voidlight is also curious... Can she sing the Song of Prayer and be granted it directly in her gemheart or something? (It's also something I wonder about the Heavenly Ones that "defected" or at least fell away from Odium with Leshwi at the end of RoW, they clearly still have Voidlight enough to fly, are they just nursing what they already had or are they still able to get it via the SoP even though Odium is probably really mad at them and would gladly cut off their InvestiCard credit limit, so to speak?)

A few thoughts/observations on the El interlude: This clearly happens before the "musings on the last ten days" that he records or composes in his head as the chapter headings towards the end of RoW, and also before the epilogue where El kills Lezian with an anti-Voidlight dagger as an "experiment": one sanctioned by the "new Odium", who had pulled him back to Roshar bypassing the Everstorm, "the way we used to do it". So how did he have an anti-Stormlight gemstone already? Raboniel had only just discovered the means of production and he's got one already (which he admires as "Raboniel's handiwork"), even though he's supposedly "frozen out" by the Nine from interfering with the war plans (more on that later)? So... Had she sent one to him directly? Were they somehow in cahoots? El was willing to kill the singer guardians of the vault to gain access to Jezrien's gem (Gemrien? Jezrigem?), but was glad not to have to do so; "he never liked to kill mortals who served well". And then, even more interesting than referring to Jezrien as an "old friend" while ending what remained of him in the gem as "a mercy", he refers to the Nine evidently having forgotten to instruct the guards not to follow his orders, as being "distracted with their war". THEIR war. Not "our" war. He also reflected on what may have been lost with the former Alethi parshman guard, Heshual né Govi, in giving up the human culture they had been born into (albeit as mindless slaves) for an ancient one imposed on them by the Fused as singers. It's clear that El had long since decided that a struggle to eradicate, or to overcome and to evict/oust, all of humanity from Roshar was going nowhere useful, and that there was much to admire in the humans, and to seek some way to cohabit. And yet, whatever his nature, he had no fear of waltzing into the Vault of the Nine guarded by four Regals, and even the reborn Lezian had tempered his attitude in speaking to him. So... He's dangerous. Like, really and personally dangerous. And now he's actually the chief of Team Odium, the Nine now report to him! He refuses being given a title again: cutting T'Odium short in his pronouncement of one, as a test of how much the inherent "rage" in the Shardic Intent the new Vessel had. It was there, but not so much as to immediately start ranting about it as Rayse likely would have done. And yet... How is it (never mind why is it) that he was "forbidden" rhythms, yet still be able to identify them in other singers? And why not ask for them back? Last observation: the vault was full of gemstones the size of a fist, which Odium idly filled with Voidlight by tapping them in turn. Is that what this vault is for, in part? A voidlight gemstone reserve that Odium can fill directly for his minions? But then surely He could fill them without manifesting in person and tapping them one at a time? Or was talking to El so boring that this was the Taravangian/Odium equivalent of pulling out a fidget spinner? LOL.

Yeah, this. I will indeed start with a re-read of the pre-released chapters... On Thursday. I figure it'll take me about 4 hours, maybe a bit longer, to do that: re-reads usually go faster, with some skimming. Then on Friday, when I have the full text of WaT, I will pick up where I left off in the re-read (if I hadn't finished through I-4). That does not appear to fit well with any of the four poll options, though. LOL

There's apparently going to be a real imbalance now in anti-Light weaponry, from what we've seen in the early chapters of WaT. Stormlight is very easy for everybody on Roshar to acquire at the moment (with each highstorm), but the Everstorm does NOT infuse gems with Voidlight: it typically requires the Song of Prayer to Odium from a singer (typically -- who knows how Gavilar acquired Voidlight to allow Vasher to make into anti-Voidlight?). And then "inverting" it to store in gem only requires the proper tone (which can be recorded on a metal plate/strip) and the intent to make anti-Light. So really, churning out anti-Stormlight can soon be done in singer "factories" of sorts, with hundreds of singers (who won't even need a metal tuning strip to hold the tone) working at stations with vacuum tubes and Stormlight infused gems. Strike Two: the weapons that can "conduct Investiture" with directionality appears to require raysium, too. Not just the daggers we've seen, but also the gem-tipped ballista bolt that the Ghostbloods already have loaded with anti-Stormlight, as Shallan noted when Iyatil shot her with one: "The bolt had a metal tip, with a gemstone clipped into the shaft. That tip… it was designed, like the weapons of the Fused, to move Light. In this case, it injected the anti-Light, making it seep through her." That "metal tip" must have been raysium. So even if Team Radiant finds some Voidlight gem cache and produces a bunch of anti-Voidlight, they'll be limited to hurling them as grenades, essentially (that would have to shatter or break open on impact). They had ONE raysium dagger that fell into their possession, but for some reason, left it with Kalak in Lasting Integrity and now it's back with the Ghostbloods, or at least with Felt and Ala. Meanwhile, Team Odium could use EZ-Break gems to store anti-Stormlight in a large collection, and then just rain them down on Radiants or something...?

My interpretation entirely. This latest Interlude in KoW is a flashback to when El met New Odium. He only begins composing his "musings" in his head on his way out.

Not "arbitrary decisions", but "taking up Shardblades" without the Nahel bond that required living up to the Immortal Words. Those who seized upon the now freely available dead Blades and Plate in the wake of the Recreance, like what Dalinar saw at Feverstone Keep, would then rule by strength of those arms. Their eyes eventually permanently changed colors like the those of the Radiants had done, their children inherited that, and well, there you are. As for not having the language to even articulate how wrong that is, I thought Dalinar expressed it well in his rant to Wit, even before he bonded the Stormfather to become a Bondsmith:

I mean yeah, it's intrinsically funny that Wit and Lift can pass visually for Dalinar and Navani, but know they can't pass if they actually were to speak (whether it's because Wit couldn't alter their voices well enough or they just knew they'd be out of their depths immediately), so all they're doing so far is shrugging and eating. And because it's Lift, she's eating a lot and more variety than Navani ever would have done. Hahaha! The Queen of Alethkar born and raised, eating messy Herdazian street food with her hand(s)! (Can one even eat chouta with a sleeved safehand? Seems like it might require a glove at the least. One that would get greasy. Hmmm) I also like the "reveal" that the jarring sudden use of IRL expletives by Lift (e.g. "the S-word") turned out to be a representation of her picking up Zahel's off-world cursing that got literally translated by his Connection magic. Also interesting is that that wasn't even the kind of cursing they did on Nalthis in Warbreaker or TES, so Zahel probably picked it up from yet another world, LOL. Gavinor double-Ascends to Odium AND Honor and becomes the Shard of War, the big baddie (?) of the back five of Stormlight and the remaining Cosmere storyline All because Dalinar couldn't find ten minutes to play swords with him before trying his Perpendicularity stunt

Haha, I like that unconscious use of M- names to indicate being a bad guy, but I have the suspicion that it's a bit of selective memory at work. Once you start counting out "villains whose name start with M in fantasy fiction", you sure can find a lot, but how does that compare with M- names that are neutral or "good" characters, or as a percentage of total characters you'd assign to those categories? Also, I find that M-names are generally for the GOOD guys in Cosmere. Or at least, for Mistborn books (hmm, M-istborn, ...coincidence????) Mare, Marsh (when not Ruined), MeLaan, Marasi... Feels like there were more even than that, too. And then there's M-bot from the Skyward series! Can't have more of an M-name than that!

Yes, I totally agree that that's the case, ... in the REAL world. But what Ishar is saying, I think makes sense if you consider it in the context of Odium "taking the pain" from Moash and Amaram to allow them to "reach their full potential" in his service. It's Cosmere magical, presumably Connection based, emotional burden sharing/taking (which may actually be pushing a numbing effect rather than "taking" as a pulling effect, to use Allomantic terminology, but it's how Odium and Moash both describe it).

Hmm. I would say it's exactly like taking (some if not all) of the rocks from another person in terms of what Ishar says he's doing, relieving eight other Heralds of part of their pain and "darkness". And yes, I totally would call carrying my own rocks plus those of eight other people as "bearing the burdens of nine". I mean it's a little dramatic or poetic to phrase it exactly that way, but certainly if you were to say "how many loads are you carrying?" I'd say "nine", just as I would say "one" if I had not taken on any additional burdens but simply had my own allotment to bear. This is a good observation. I mean, Ishar even called it "siphoning (some of) their pains onto myself" and "their pains are upon me", which does sound a lot like what Odium does, and explicitly offered (in those terms), to Dalinar, Amaram, and Moash, especially if you interpret the chief source of their pain he's siphoning being the guilt and remorse of having abandoned the Oathpact and having left Taln to suffer alone on Braize, an idea which he pushed or signed off on to the others at Aharietiam ("Ishar believes that so long as there is one of us still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough.") Which is another obvious reason "the burdens of nine" refer to the Aharietiam Heralds, Ishar included. He can't take Taln's guilt for that, because he doesn't have that burden at all. And we even know Ishar was no stranger to Odium's "void". The Dawnsingers recorded that the humans "brought the void with them", that God of Voids being Odium, who had "tricked" Ishar into "experimenting" with "the Surges that destroyed Ashyn" before they decamped to Roshar.

Yes, that is true; so that means Ishar's talk about having made Szeth his servant or disciple, returning to Shinovar "to fulfill the task I set for him many years ago" couldn't have been done with him wielding his Bondsmith powers. Or it could be, you know, that he's cuckoobananas crazy in the head and is retconning all sorts of events to fit his narrative that he's Ascended to being the Almighty and whatnot. He does seem to have bonded some kind of spren, though, to be speaking in smallcaps and having Light blazing from his eyes and whatnot... Or found some other splinter of Honor somewhere? Egad.

YAAAASSSSS I wonder when Ishar reclaimed his Honorblade? And what is the deal with Ishar bursting with Light and all that? Is this more of his being a Bondsmith Unchained, or something even more? Has Dalinar officially named himself his own Champions for Contest purposes? Or does a champion of Honor simply have to show up for the contest? It possibly ending up in a default / broken pact if Dalinar cannot personally show up above Urithiru on the tenth hour 8 days from his disappearance into the SR is certainly a twist I never anticipated...

Now that is an interesting thought. What if "Fused are locked away on Braize as long as you all stay there with them" was all they were told? "Hmm. OK." Then, after the first time through: picture several hundred ;(?) Fused and 10 Heralds sitting around staring at each other with hostility on Braize. Jezrien: Well, I guess I'll start. Hi, my name is Jezrien. Since we'll all be here for a long while, probably forever, let's try to move past our -- Lezian: Shut up, Herald of humans! This isn't over! Jezrien: But of course it is. We are all here on Braize now, after dying on Roshar, and we can't get killed here, not as we are. Raboniel: Oh? But if we all got sent here from Roshar when we got killed there, and are now sealed here by you guys killing yourselves there to also all come here... Why would we not go back to Roshar if we kill you here? Ishar: But we have no physical forms here! We are all Cognitive Shadows! Raboniel: But we can still FEEL pain, from the idea of it. Let's see what happens if you get hurt ENOUGH! Lezian: GET 'EM!! And I call dibs on noogie-ing that Jezrien guy until he cries Uncle!

"Wasn't set up to allow them to do it" is putting it mildly. We still don't know the actual context and terms of the Oathpact: why was it necessary to have cycles of Desolations, and what was supposed to be the end game based on the knowledge/rules they knew about going into it. I mean, who would sign up for a mission statement like, "to defend mankind from Dawnsinger retribution, but it goes on and on for centuries, for millennia, until you go mad (cough from torture cough) and then there's an Everstorm and Final Desolation and something something"? When Jezrien spoke of putting down a burden they had willingly taken up, I read it as meaning from a moral or ethical perspective. Apparently even he didn't foresee an "end game" to the cycle of Desolations, or they should have been trying to engineer that for a while now, rather than fighting, dying, getting tortured, etc., until walking away... Even though Ishar seems to have known about the "contest of champions" option, as Crazy Ishar proclaims himself ready to fight Dalinar as Odium's champion when meeting him in RoW. Anyway, one thing is for sure: they were all beings who long ago had passed the point of "putting down the burden" to then resume a normal human life. They'd lived far past a mortal lifespan already, had died innumerable times, and were Cognitive Shadows with mechanisms binding them to the Physical Realm that were still in effect even if they forswore their Honorblades (otherwise they'd all have died within 100 years or less after Aharietiam). I just had a thought: what if one possible "victory condition" had been to kill all the Fused present on Roshar so "the board is clear" without losing a single Herald? But having just Taln (the one who'd never broken) sent to Braize was the closest they ever got, and they settled on a "suspended game" rather than yet another attempt at a perfect clearing of the board.

I don't think we need to posit an automated way to create anti-Stormlight based on seeing the GBs with two crossbow bolts and two daggers armed with it, both given to their two most senior agents on Roshar (Iyatil and Mraize). It required normal Stormlight or Voidlight captured in a gem, placing it in a vaccum, inverting the tone (Honor's or Odium's, depending on the Light) with the explicit Intent of inverting it to anti-Light, and then giving the anti-Light another gem to go into. It should be terrifyingly easy to construct anti-Stormlight once this process is known, as Stormlight is renewed with each passing highstorm, and the gems need not be perfect (anti-Stormlight eventually just leaks/dissipates away, just like regular Stormlight does). And the anti-tone can be recorded, as Navani did with a steel plate and using a bow drawn across it. Really the only limiting resource for making anti-Stormlight on Roshar is what is needed to make a vacuum box, which in RoW was some kind of specialized Thaylen weather experiment stuff that Navani had to "special order". But it's not hard to make, and I would assume off-worlders from Scadrial or Silverlight could be very familiar with how to create an ordinary vacuum already. The intent, so far as we know, has to be supplied by a living agent, e.g., human or listener. We've gotten hints that in the future, Cosmere tech would exist that can provide Intent on its own, but I don't think even the GBs are there yet as of SA4/SA5.

As to why Mraize threw his anti-Stormlight dagger into the Perpendicularity, the answer is obvious: to cause a big explosion that would probably allow him and Iyatil to break free and escape. He has no idea what else would happen, i.e., what stage of the unknown process that Dalinar and Navani were undergoing to use the Perpendicularity to enter the SR, but not being captured is a pretty good reason. It is interesting that ALL "Enlightened" spren apparently have a good affinity with the SR, beyond the normal versions of those spren. I guess that has to do with their "futurevision", if indeed they all have a form of that, which would explain why Sja-Anat calls it "enlightening".

I am assuming for now that it's Iyatil as an Elsecaller and Mraize as a Lightweaver, both with an unknown modification to their Soulcasting ability. Sja-Anat can -- if not already has -- "enlightened" Radiant spren of every type, if willing, except what could make a Bondsmith, as the Great Spren are only three in number and apparently beyond her ability to Enlighten (whether a power level thing or simply being fundamentally unwilling). As to what would convince the spren to submit to her Enlightenment, it's because she "offers a third way", a very interesting way to put it. The Way of the Spren, if you will, unbeholden to Honor/Cultivation nor to Odium, while partaking of both of them, so to speak. And they've also recruited another kind of "spren" to their side, in Ala the seon, so they must have a pretty good pitch (thanks, Kelsier!). If we assume the illusions that the three GBs used to pass as Shallan's three guards were Lightweavings (and not some other Cosmere magic they have access to), then one of Mraize/Iyatil has bonded an Enlightened Cryptic, as we've already seen that an Enlightened Mistspren does not grant the Surge of Illumination in a way that can be used to make illusions (and it's apparently consistent, as Renarin and Rlain both have those "stained glass Odiumvisions", though Rlain has yet to do the "external Allomantic gold shadow projection" trick). Which makes me wonder what the "other" Surge would be like in Enlightened form, that of Transformation (Soulcasting). Hmm! Whichever of Mraize/Iyatil is not the Lightweaver, obviously has the Surge of Transportation: Elsecaller or Willshaper. I wonder what appeal a "third way" would have for a lightspren, as we've seen in RoW that they have (as a group) already refused to continue aligning with Team Honor under direction of a Bondsmith, and have gone off to be with the listeners. That, or they are ALL very open to Enlightenment. And of course, both Renarin and Rlain ARE aligned with Dalinar despite having bonded Enlightened mistspren. So the "third way" doesn't preclude alignment with Ways One or Two.

It's almost like there's some kind of rule that binds the Shards against it! Not to mention the fact that these stories are about people with human (or at least, mortal) protagonists, not a Game of Gods!

Most of this book is going to take place over a ten day span or so. So, mostly you have that POV because you're spending an entire week thinking about 20 minutes or so of reading, and thus viewing all the "action" as "setup". If I were in Dalinar's position and wondering what would happen in eight days for a Contest of Champions, with himself as champion, to the death, to decide the fate of the world, not to mention potentially becoming an immortal and eternal slave to Odium should he lose... You'd better believe I'd expect him to be heavily focused on worrying over, discussing, and planning for what might or could or has to happen within the next 6-8 days. It should be on everybody's mind, on Team Dalinar. (Who knows what Team Odium is doing, but with Taravangian now the Vessel in charge, things just got a lot craftier than with Rayse.) And then there are the Ghostbloods, or at least the subgroup led by Iyatil, who are focused on something really close at hand: hitching a ride into the Spiritual Realm on Dalinar's coattails in the next 24 hours in order to ferret out access to Mishram-in-a-gem, for reasons we still don't fully understand -- what do they think they'll be able to do if they got that gem??

To put the objections of "awkward pacing" in preview chapters into context: If we assume the final work is the equivalent of 150 early release chapters (including the prologue, epilogue, and interludes), then each Monday we are getting 2/150 of the final work. If this were an "epic length" 2h30 movie (150 minutes), that would be like getting two MINUTES per week. Or, if you are reading these early release chapters in 15 minutes, the total "reading time" for the work will end up being about 19-20 HOURS. You cannot really judge pacing or flow from these chapters, just appreciate the "advance knowledge" of certain things (like Felt and Ala working with/for the Ghostbloods to capture Kalak, Mraize and Iyatil having bonded "enlightened" Inkspren or something, and so on). If Lift or Shallan POVs have always annoyed you, well that ain't a-stopping any time soon.

Not every single passage of every single chapter is going to "advance the plot", that would be kind of terrible in its own way. This is a facet of reading a book two chapters at a time -- something you will finish reading in about 15-20 minutes -- from a work that will end up with upwards of 150 chapters including prologue/epilogue and interludes, and should take you many hours to consume, over days or weeks. And then to re-read (with a focus on certain chapters/passages), to digest properly. There are going to be "chapters" that are devoted to worldbuilding (including as we reach new places and cultures like Shinovar or Natan), character personal growth, interpersonal relationship growth, with "color passages" for humor (yes, that can be hit or miss for readers), pathos, some "easter egg" type Cosmere references dribbled in, etc., etc. Expecting every chapter to contain all of those things, or to focus on just one of those things, or to "just move the plot along", would clearly make for bad storytelling. A lot of these will smooth out simply from reading more naturally.

"We need not fight any longer!" declared Dalinar to El, at the head of the legions of singers. "The cycles of Desolations, of endless warfare between your people and mine, have become a purpose unto themselves! If we both want peace, can we not have it simply by agreeing to it?" "So all you are saying," sneered El, "is to give peace a chance? War is over, if we want it?" Behind Dalinar, Wit blinked in astonishment at what he was hearing, as if these words were triggering memories from long ago or far away. "That is weak, Bondsmith, very weak. After eight thousand years, we end with no resolution? All that was for nothing?" "Why not? Nohadon once said, anak malah kaf, del makian habin yah, -- " "'...To be human is to want that which we cannot have', yes. The Dawnchant is our language, you know! But we are not human, and we can have --" "Kumbaya," whispered Wit, suddenly. "What did you say?" El said, turning to him in surprise. "Kumbaya!" cried Wit, with sudden passion. "That is it! The way out of the Contest!" "That means a... Tie?" said Dalinar. "In a contest to the death?" Wit stepped forward and beckoned towards both El and Dalinar. "Come together! Right now! Over me!" El and Dalinar shared a puzzled look with each other, then began to nod. "Yes... Both Odium and Honor found this man really, really irritating. If our Contest of Champions becomes a team effort to whale on Hoid..." "...and you two can't actually hurt me, per contract," Wit added happily, "then because neither of you can kill me, it all ends in a draw!" Dalinar and El grinned. "It... Could... WORK!"

So this bit always made we wonder about the nature of the repression of the Keepers in the Final Empire. I think it speaks a little to the conflict, even nearly a thousand years later, that Rashek must have felt in being so brutal with his own people, to control and to limit Feruchemy -- the ancient and signature power of the Terris -- in the population. The fact that the Inquisitors went Feruchemy spike-harvesting almost as soon as TLR fell, suggests that they (Inquisitors) always knew about and desired these powers (esp. F-gold), but were limited in access to captured Keepers, probably mostly reusing existing spikes from previous Inquisitors. So yes, the Synod "coming out into the open" was like putting a shingle outside a door saying "TATHINGDWEN FERUCHEMY SPIKE RESERVE -- OPEN FOR WITHDRAWALS". But it could also be that TLR himself had been holding them in check from simply rampaging through the Terris Dominance to fully extract or to harvest for Feruchemy, which check was now absent. It seems to me that the "Terris breeding programs" were meant to manage and limit the existence of Feruchemists (as well as to ensure no crossbreeding with Allomancy) rather than to eliminate them entirely. Cynically, this could be because he would need them to exist for potential spike harvesting; but more likely, Rashek had realized that fully eliminating the possibility of Feruchemists would basically mean wiping out all Terris folk, and he could not bring himself to do that. Also, note that the "Book of the False Dawn" that Elend nearly got caught reading, specifically mentioned various cover-ups of disastrous events or retcons by TLR like "the revision of the Deepness Doctrine" as being found only in banned texts, "or the metalminds of Feruchemists". Not "Keepers", either, but "Feruchemists"! We don't know exactly how old that book is, relative to Elend's time, but the author Deluse Couvre didn't feel the need to explain or to footnote what a "Feruchemist" was, so his intended audience was expected to know what that meant. And that book wasn't even banned, as Kelsier later explained to Vin. It was borderline enough that the Steel Ministry decided banning it would actually draw attention to it, and they hoped it would just die of disinterest due to its "stuffiness". So I suspect knowledge of the existence of Feruchemy and Keepers was something of a "well-known secret" among the nobles of the Final Empire, known to be a topic not to be caught openly discussing or admitting knowledge of lest you draw the attention of the Inquisitors, but otherwise kind of like knowledge of the kandra and how to find and to hire one. Officially these things don't exist, but hey, "IYKYK".

I doubt they’d have so many of those anti-Stormlight gem tips as to array volleys of them, that’s one of the reasons to practice with the crossbow at a distance “across a room” before using a bolt with such a tip for reals. Those are going to be expensive to produce. I mean, don’t the gems even have to be “perfect gems” to hold the anti-Stormlight indefinitely? Or loaded up shortly before use? Otherwise it’d leak/fade out of the gem within a week or two, just like ordinary infused spheres do of regular Stormlight, right?

yep, this is Sig still being bitter about how Hoid knew he’d been consigned to a Sadeas bridgerunning crew but did nothing to help him or anybody else in that position.