Kingsdaughter613

I think a lot of people are not considering how Kelsier thinks. He’s someone who keeps his true cards close to the vest. He doesn’t reveal his plans until it’s too late to stop them. So whatever the GBs are really up to, it’s NOT anything they’ve stated. Related, definitely. But not the whole truth. Let’s think back to the FE crew. The army (lowest rung) knew they were part of the rebellion and were being primed for a major attack. The sub-crews (second lowest) knew that the army was being recruited because the Survivor had a contract with Yeden. The main crew knew that the plan was to bring down the Final Empire. But only Kelsier and OreSeur knew that the (secondary, but realistically the one that would happen) plan was for Kell to become a martyr. So people like Shallan are the army. Mraize and Kabsal were part of the sub-crews. Iyatil may be main crew, but I think she’s actually on a higher ranked sub-crew. And then there’s Kelsier. Standing at the top, with a plan unknown to any but himself and those ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for it. Kelsier always has reasons for what he’s doing. He never robbed people for money; money (and power and secrets) was just a way of keeping score. He loves the GAME. The thrill of the con. He’s a liar, a conman, a trickster and a thief. Ultimately, he doesn’t truly care about controlling Investiture, so that can’t be the true goal. Getting offworld is something he does care about, but not as much as you’d think. He’s playing by proxy, after all and that’s its own challenge. He doesn’t want to get offworld so much as he wants to be the FIRST (Returned don’t count). He wants to be the one to figure it out. Why do you think he hasn’t badgered/tricked Harmony into doing it for him? So there’s another reason. Another plan. Another SECRET. And that comes down to how he’s changed. He cares about Scadrial. He cares about its people. He cares about that more than himself in some ways, and there is very little he can say that of. So it’s Scadrial. It’s what he tells Spook, and he isn’t lying. He’s not going to let his world be destroyed by warring Shards. Not again. Kelsier will act to Preserve Scadrial and its people. And if the rest of the Cosmere has to burn to Preserve it? Well, at least one of Scadrial’s gods is willing to set it ablaze. TLDR; This about protecting Scadrial. It’s about a lot of other things too, but that’s the only one that really matters.

Fist bump accepted! There really needs to be more awareness of PMDD. In my case it’s isolated; I ONLY experience depressive symptoms during the week before, and first day or so of, my period. So there really isn’t that much that can be done because it doesn’t last long enough. I can’t even use birth control meds, because I get pre-partum depression and BC meds mimic pregnancy enough to cause me to experience depression. That doesn’t get enough attention either; when I gave birth I got a asked a ton of questions to make sure I didn’t have post-partum. I was like, “now you ask? I was depressed for the past nine months - I’m fine now, thanks.” It ended right around the time I started having pre-labor.

Raboniel and Navani? But yes, it would be awesome. I have a crazy, aluminum foil idea (not theory, just idea) that BAM will corrupt the Deadeyes and Adolin and Shallan will have to accept the GBs help to protect Maya and Testament. (No, I don’t trust ANYTHING Kalak says about BAM. Brandon was very clear that we shouldn’t.) The GBs will move the Spren offworld (which they have indicated they know how to do) to Scadrial for a time. I may just want Adolin and Shallan worldhopping, visiting Scadrial, and getting to confront ‘Thaidakar’ in person. And for Shallan to draw us a picture of his hands, as well as the eye spike with a scribbled “HOW IS HE ALIVE?!” next to it. And lots of pictures of Scadrian plants, with lots of comments on the ‘novelty’ of non-moving plants. I also want Kell’s name written phonetically as Kelsee-ay for the entire book. And confirmation that he has a French accent when speaking other languages. I love the fact that he canonically speaks a French-like language, because the French accent suits him very well. Romantic, compelling, and dramatic.

Me! Kind of, anyway. I just didn’t expect Brandon to actually do it. He kept saying the series could be read as a stand-alone, which it technically CAN. I figured the GB leader would be someone LIKE Kelsier, because it felt like EXACTLY like something he would do. Turns out there was a good reason for that, lol. I also thought it would be too big a Mistborn spoiler for Brandon to use him. I actually thought it was more likely to be Spook, as that isn’t nearly as big a spoiler, and Spook has been heavily influenced by Kelsier. I have felt from WoR on that the GBs would be Kell’s if Brandon let him have them. So I wasn’t surprised Kelsier was Thaidakar; I was surprised that Brandon allowed him to be. I do wonder at what point Brandon settled on Kelsier as Thaidakar. Did he know during WoK? He did by WoR. By that point he was also planning to expand Alloy into a full Era, which I think played a role in the decision. Because Thaidakar really couldn’t be Kelsier without Kelsier’s survival being revealed within the pages of Mistborn. I think Brandon wanted Kelsier as Thaidakar, but couldn’t use him until Era 2 became a thing. I suspect Spook may have been intended originally (due to Kell being unusable). Some evidence of this is that Era 2 and 3’s timeline position changed drastically once Brandon decided to make Alloy a full Era. Another thing I’m pretty sure changed is when the Thaidakar reveal was dropped (I suspect it was initially planned for book 5) and whether or not Thaidakar would appear in any way during SA’s first half. Initially it was no, because Kell can’t appear there until he does in Mistborn. The original plan had him first appear again in what is now Era 3, which will be written between SA halves. Now it’s probably yes, which is why Brandon has said TLM HAS to be released before SA 5.

Yes, but she could also use soulcast and take memories before she bonded Pattern, so...

Mistborn Era 3 and Elantris 2&3.

Per WoB, it’s theoretically possible to kill a Spren with Leeching. In which case, a strong Mistborn with unlimited Chromium has a very good chance. Plus, if you can spike the Spren.

Whether or not you realize is directly correlated to how recently you ready Era 1. With some variation depending on how invested you were in the debates on who Thaidakar could be. So don’t feel too bad. I was a: one of the people arguing about the theory and b: I was rereading TFE when RoW came out.

Kelsier objects to the last line. Oh, wait. THAT explains the Ghostbloods!

The book’s theme is Choice and accepting others right to Choose.

Lol! I LOVE how you put that. It really did come out of nowhere. I mean, there was foreshadowing, but still completely unexpected when it happened! And was followed by another awesome level up (not technically, but it feels that way) casually tossed into a message in chapter 115. The best part is all the characters not reacting to those events at all, giving us total whiplash. Oh, everything’s grea- T is Odium?! Kell actually is Thaidakar?! Great... so that’s two out of three MC heroes suddenly facing really dangerous opponents... and they have no clue!! The Cosmere is so storming rusted... At least Kal’s foil seems to have gotten weaker. That’s good, right? Right?

I think the fourth ideal was actually about forgiveness and acceptance. For Teft it would have been, “I forgive/accept myself.” I think the fifth is the true limiter: “I recognize/accept when I SHOULD NOT protect.” Ultimately, you have to respect the rights of others to put themselves in danger. This will be Kal’s fifth. Teft’s would probably have been similar to Dalinar’s third, interestingly. The general fifth will build on the fourth oath of the Individual Radiant. If the fourth is accepting yourself, the fifth is acknowledging your own flaws. In Kaladin’s case, it’s his need to protect others - even when they don’t want it. He needs to accept that it’s not his place to keep everyone safe. We see this immediately after he says the fourth; he promptly goes ‘but I’ll save those I can.’ A good leader has to respect the rights of his men to choose their own fate. Teft needed to forgive himself for his past mistakes. (Storm Moash! He was about to say it!) His fifth would be accepting that it’s okay to make new ones, or even repeat old ones. I think Lopen’s fourth will be about forgiving himself for hurting others. The fifth will be the realization that he can use his wit without hurting people.

Really? Kell promised him immortality and the kid is known to have lived a rather long time.

She has Peter Pan syndrome and body dysmorphia. Two completely different conditions. She’s not trans; she has expressed no problems with her gender, just her biological age. And I HATED puberty. I didn’t enjoy getting my period (turns out I have menstrual depression) and I didn’t like having to wear a bra. I spent a lot of puberty wishing I was male for various reasons. And then I grew up, finished puberty, and discovered that I was actually very happy being female. You can dislike puberty for reasons that have nothing to do with being trans. A lot of people are just very uncomfortable with their changing bodies or have other issues (like severe menstrual symptoms) that effect their reactions.

Adin will be an adult by then, as will Lift. 10/15 years is quite a bit of time.

Oh, right. I didn’t recognize you with the new name, lol. I’m sorry about that. I had been in this forum and didn’t realize I had switched to another. There are other Scadrians around though. It could have been Spook, for example.

I have the crazy idea that Kalak switched sides. He was convinced back in the Prelude that Odium would find a work around and he’s TERRIFIED of being tortured again. How better to avoid it than to join forces with the torturer? Now he won’t be hurt. Plus, Odium admits to being able to free a CS in this book. The exact thing Kalak wants. I can see him creating his own deal with Odium in exchange for freedom. Not to mention, “Never trust anything a Herald says ever.” If a Herald is telling me we should free an Unmade, I have serious reservations. And it would be SUCH a Brandon twist for Kalak to be a traitor.

I actually expect a big twist with the GBs. I don’t think we know much about their true goals at all. “Plots behind plots, plans beyond plans. There was always another secret.” Whatever they’re really up to, only ‘Thaidakar’ knows the truth. We do know which side they’re on though. They aren’t truly neutral. “Iyatil has reported to Master Thaidakar,” Mraize said, “and he has accepted—after some initial anger—that we will not be able to control the Oathgates. I explained that there at least is a calming wind in this, like the riddens of a storm. With Dalinar controlling the Oathgates, he can prosecute the war against Odium.” “And that helps your cause?” “We have no interest in seeing the enemy rule this world, Shallan. Master Thaidakar wishes only to secure a method for gathering and transporting Stormlight.” They don’t want Odium winning on Roshar. In fact, they may have always intended Dalinar to use the Oathgates; they just wanted to be in control. They have also been actively hunting the SoH, who were trying to bring back the Desolations. I don’t think that’s an unconnected fact. It makes sense. Saze is Odium’s greatest threat so he’d likely go after him quickly, before Saze has time to master his powers. Trell (Autonomy?) is already active on Scadrial. The last thing Kelsier wants is another war of the Shards on his homeworld. If Odium looks like he’s going to get free the GBs will throw in their lot with anyone who can keep him chained. They’re not neutral. They just want to APPEAR neutral.

What was the mistake?

You literally just described Social Darwinism. Eugenics is a BIG part of Social Darwinism. It’s the whole ‘survival of the fittest’ maxim.

Thanks!

It’s because of how close he was to swearing the fourth ideal.

You need to post the next three.

Mistborn spoilers, both eras:

Court of Gods in Hallandren City