Scadrian vs. Rosharan magic post RoW

[LewsTherinTelescope]

8 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Have we ever seen any bondsmith do this?  Why didn't Ishar do it in ROW. 

Ishar didn't seem to be trying particularly hard to actually kill any of them. He defended himself, but otherwise didn't directly attack the Windrunners besides the Connection to the ground trick.

[Frustration]

23 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 That doesn't make sense or else you will need at different medallion for every land you visited. 

Blank will autocorrect you to the land you're in, but won't automatically change everything about you.

also you can quote someone multiple times, posting multiple times without someone else posting is not something the mods like.

[The Technovore]

So, on the question of "Scadrial vs Roshar now that we know what Roshar looks like post RoW", obviously there's a lot missing because we don't know what Scadrial actually looks like in this point of time. Era 3 Scadrial is going to align with the SA, but that's almost a millennium in the future of where we are in Scadrial now. 

I believe that lining up Radiants and Allomancers is a question of versatility vs adaptability. We see in RoW that the Radiants are still very fledgling. The Fused are constantly referring to things the Radiants used to do that they don't know how anymore. Windrunners using "homing arrows" as an example. However, the Rosharans, especially Kaladin as the prime combat example, have shown to be *extremely* adaptable to new strategies. In Roshar, every time a new strategy is used, it can only be used once because there's going to be a counter next time. We see this in Kal vs. Lezian where he was taken off guard, but then by the end of the book beat the snot out of him (there were extra power boosts going on then but still).

But while the magic system on Roshar is very complex and versatile, the power-arsenal any one Radiant has is relatively limited. Stormlight works as a constant F-Gold and A-Pewter boost, which is a really good baseline, but then the Radiant only has two to three other abilities AT BEST (the two surges, combining the two surges for a third effect) because most Radiants are very new and have not mastered their abilities yet.

Contrast the Mistborn. We'll use Era 1 because that was when Scadrial had the most investiture running around (something about being on a Shardworld with a splintered Shard really amps up the power levels). Those Mistborn are highly trained as assassins and combatants. They have worked with their abilities a lot more, and know how to use them much better. That's a bigger advantage than many think. However they're not often challenged like the Radiants are by other powerful magic users, which caps them.

So if we were to line up a war between Scadrial and Roshar, and ignoring all the investiture and Connection "realism" nonsense because that takes the fun out of it--how would a battle between a Radiant and a Mistborn go? If we assume a 4th ideal non-Kaladin-plot-armor Radiant with sewn-in spheres and a Mistborn with lots-but-not-unlimited metals... it all depends on adaptability vs versatility. The mistborn has 16 powers, one of which is an investiture leech and other is designed to boost the other 15. The Radiant has armor, a sprenblade, two maybe-three surges, and stormlight. The Mistborn has the edge on pure versatility.

However, if we assume the Mistborn and Radiant aren't familiar with each-other's powers, lethal mistakes can quickly be made. A Mistborn attacking with daggers, not knowing about the armor and sprenblade, will be quickly disappointed and--without Atium--killed. A Radiant not realizing that those coins can shatter armor might be pinned down and overwhelmed, or not expecting a grapple because they don't have Kaladin-plot-awesomeness, might find their necks being snapped by A-pewter before having all their stormlight leeched out before they can regen. 

The main problem that makes this matchup difficult is that the Mistborn is a much more rogue-ish archetype versus the Radiant's raw combat prowess. A fair fight with against a Radiant with more than 10 brain cells will always end in the Mistborn either running, or dying. A fight filled with traps, trickery, surprise, and environmental restrictions (enclosed space, hostile weather, etc.) will quickly find the more limited Radiant overwhelmed and possibly killed. And the Mistborn is very likely to be able to pull off that situational-control just through raw experience with their own abilities. Mistborn, like the D&D rogue, have the greatest advantage when they can do or exploit something their opponent doesn't expect. Rosharans have no reason to not wear metal, therefore a non-Windrunner/Skybreaker Radiant might find themselves being thrown off balance by A-Iron or A-Steel in just the wrong moment, or worse being hoisted into the air just to fall. Over, and over again, until their stormlight is out. 

But, if the Radiant has some brain cells and manages to avoid being caught by surprise, the advantage can start to creep in their favor. The Radiant has more raw combat power, and the longer the fight goes, the more things the Mistborn pulls out of his bag of tricks, the more the Radiant begins to work out how the Mistborn works, it will get to the point where unless the Radiant runs out of stormlight, he'll have the trickster in full retreat. And that's without considering the surges. Adhesion to stop A-Iron or A-Steel by gluing them to the ground. Cohesion to keep up with a retreating Mistborn or to make the Radiant un-grapple-able. Gravitation can do a *lot* to jack up a flying Mistborn, and Illusion, Soulcasting, or Transportation can help a sufficiently trained Radiant beat the Mistborn in the "trickery and antics" game. So it comes down to "who adapts to the other's abilities faster" and "who slips up first".

 

A Fullborn is another monster entirely. Feruchemy's abilities are objectively better than Allomancy's due to the fact that they're *even more versatile* with the main drawback being a need for sacrifice and prep time. But Allomancy negates that with Compounding. Compounded Gold makes the Fullborn equal-to or superior to Stormlight's regen abilities, especially if they're very familiar with it like Miles was. Compounded Steel + Compounded Pewter lets them cream almost any Radiant through sheer steamrolling, and Iron Feruchemy shenanigans lets them take to the air easier than any would expect. Combine with Allomancy's speed-bubbles, leeching, and duralumin, and he's a walking army. It wouldn't take a Radiant or even a Herald to stop a Fullborn. It would take a Rosharan Radiant army. But, with the advances in anti-investiture weaponry Navani had recently discovered, it would be a matter of weeks or a month or two before a new weapon rolled out that could completely cripple them. Even that would have to rely on the Fullborn getting way too cocky. Versatility vs. Adaptability is the key to everything.

[Shob the Voidbringer]

lets just ignore fullborns and bondsmiths, because fullborns are overpowered and we don't know enough about bondsmiths but they are also OP, i mean they could probably steal a fullborns connection to a metalmind, so, until later, just leave them be

[LewsTherinTelescope]

4 hours ago, The Technovore said:

So, on the question of "Scadrial vs Roshar now that we know what Roshar looks like post RoW", obviously there's a lot missing because we don't know what Scadrial actually looks like in this point of time. Era 3 Scadrial is going to align with the SA, but that's almost a millennium in the future of where we are in Scadrial now. 

Some very important corrections: one, Era Two lines up with Stormlight, not Era Three, so we do actually know what Scadrial looks like right now. (In fact, Era Two technically is still in the future from RoW, as it starts during the time gap between Book Five and Book Six). 

And two, Era Three is only 50-70 years after Era Two, not a millennium. 

Edit: also,

Quote

We'll use Era 1 because that was when Scadrial had the most investiture running around (something about being on a Shardworld with a splintered Shard really amps up the power levels).

1. Mistborn at the time of Era 1 were at essentially their weakest point. They were strongest immediately after the Lord Ruler's Ascension, and ceased to exist after Era 1 (except Spook and Hoid... and sorta Kel, I suppose). 
2. Preservation was not Splintered. Leras was killed, but the Shard was not damaged, and still had a Vessel. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope

[The Technovore]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

~snip~

Huh, seems I had some seriously outdated information. Era three is really only 70 years in the future? Crazy. And it has been a while since I'd read Mistborn, so while info about the Magic system is *relatively* well stored, my historical details are *clearly* messed up, lol.

As for the last point, right, that is an important distinction that I'd messed up. I suppose what I mean is that the Shard of Preservation at that point was almost totally invested in the world as Leras was dying (the entire Shard of Preservation was in the Mists in HoA was it not?), which I think is very similar to what happened/is happening on Roshar with Honor's Shard, where Honor's power almost totally put itself in the spren/stormlight/the Radiants themselves. It seems that Shards weaken themselves to the point of death by over-investing in their worlds, and after dying and splintering their power sticks around on the planet, which is likely why you see Era 2 Scadrial with a very small amount of invested amount of power among its populace (very rare Mistings and Twinborns, almost no Mistborn) compared to the Investiture storm of Threnody or the whirlwind of clashing power that is Roshar.

(Let's be real though Rashek *tried* to kill all the mistborn but we knew of at least three running around right under his nose the whole time, so there were likely at least 3-4 more in the entire world that he didn't know about/didn't care about)

Edited January 26, 2021 by The Technovore

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

the entire Shard of Preservation was in the Mists in HoA was it not?

Not sure. Kelsier was holding it right up until the moment he gave it to Vin and she Ascended, so I think there was plenty outside the mists, but I could be mistaken and it was mostly in the mists while Kel held it.

5 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

Let's be real though Rashek *tried* to kill all the mistborn but we knew of at least three running around right under his nose the whole time, so there were likely at least 3-4 more in the entire world that he didn't know about/didn't care about

Might've been, but if so, they either didn't survive the Catacendre, or managed to hide their natures, I guess?

[BenduLuke]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:02 PM, Frustration said:

Note that every one of those WoB's said work to get, there is something that has to be done in order to use it, it's not as simple as breath in.

 

On 1/23/2021 at 5:47 PM, Bzhydack said:

I think you misinterpret this. Yeah, any magic can be converted in any other. But in any case isnt that that easy like you first tell us.

Only some magic systems can be fueled by any Investiture relativly easy. Allomancy isnt one of them. I exagarate a little earlier, because right, you can crack Allomancy and fuel with other Investiture. But... noone knows how to do this yet. Even Hoid. This isnt simple in this case.

BTW, I think Radiant would benefit more from fueling Radiancy with Allomancy.

The simplest magic system to use with any Investiture is Sand Mastery, I think.

Scadrian's can find fuel on every planet because every planet has metal making their investiture extremely available and versatile. What a Scadrian might need to do to use Stormlight is recognize that KR's are breathing it in and to work out that they need to intend to use it to fuel their metal. In other words like a Fering needs to realize that an open metal mind can be used they have to realize it is a metal mind of their metal first with an available investiture storage. So using allomancy fueled by Stormlight may be a matter of intent and awareness.

I don't know about sand mastery.

[BenduLuke]

On 1/25/2021 at 5:25 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Some very important corrections: one, Era Two lines up with Stormlight, not Era Three, so we do actually know what Scadrial looks like right now. (In fact, Era Two technically is still in the future from RoW, as it starts during the time gap between Book Five and Book Six). 

 

On 1/25/2021 at 6:37 PM, The Technovore said:

As for the last point, right, that is an important distinction that I'd messed up. I suppose what I mean is that the Shard of Preservation at that point was almost totally invested in the world as Leras was dying (the entire Shard of Preservation was in the Mists in HoA was it not?), which I think is very similar to what happened/is happening on Roshar with Honor's Shard, where Honor's power almost totally put itself in the spren/stormlight/the Radiants themselves. It seems that Shards weaken themselves to the point of death by over-investing in their worlds, and after dying and splintering their power sticks around on the planet, which is likely why you see Era 2 Scadrial with a very small amount of invested amount of power among its populace (very rare Mistings and Twinborns, almost no Mistborn) compared to the Investiture storm of Threnody or the whirlwind of clashing power that is Roshar.

(Let's be real though Rashek *tried* to kill all the mistborn but we knew of at least three running around right under his nose the whole time, so there were likely at least 3-4 more in the entire world that he didn't know about/didn't care about)

IMHO era 2 metal born might have a far better chance against KR's because of compounding. Steel twins would be like flash with projectiles and able to push on any metal the KR had to keep their distance. There are other possible twin combinations that could be equally challenging to KR's.

You mentioned the Lord Ruler who didn't really take advantage of compounding to it's fullest but something no one else has even mentioned is that he was an expert in Hemalurgy which potentially gave him an advantage over others.

One other thing I think is that Scadrian's could likely get access to Nahel Bonds while Rosharn's would almost never acquire metal abilities. Consider a dustbringer or skybreaker who is also a Duralamin nat. The division surge might be able to create nuclear level effects with minimal stormlight.

[The Technovore]

An interesting thought about Scadrian magic is that access to it is genetically innate, right? People are born with the ability to use it, and then "crack" to unlock their powers? I just happened to remember today's genetic manipulation technologies we have but ethically do not use... I can imagine an Era 3 or 4 Scadrial that's a little less ethical really going ham on giving its populace powers. In an event like that Scadrial could win any inter-Cosmere war simply for it's ability to rally Invested armies.

(Heaven help the Cosmere if they ever thought to create a Fullborn in a lab )

I looked up some WoBs on it--it looks like Physical genetics plays into it, but there's also an element of Spiritual DNA, which is apparently different? I'd bet it's not immune to manipulation though...

 

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Scadrian's can find fuel on every planet because every planet has metal making their investiture extremely available and versatile.

Eh... no,

metal is not the fuel

2 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

What a Scadrian might need to do to use Stormlight is recognize that KR's are breathing it in and to work out that they need to intend to use it to fuel their metal.

And that's work?

[+Bzhydack]

10 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

Scadrian's can find fuel on every planet because every planet has metal making their investiture extremely available and versatile. What a Scadrian might need to do to use Stormlight is recognize that KR's are breathing it in and to work out that they need to intend to use it to fuel their metal. In other words like a Fering needs to realize that an open metal mind can be used they have to realize it is a metal mind of their metal first with an available investiture storage. So using allomancy fueled by Stormlight may be a matter of intent and awareness.

Eeeee...

No.

Metal is metal. Right, is everywhere, and metalborn can harvest it everywhere. But this is still the same Allomancy without hacking - powered by Preservation, anywhere Allomancer happened to be. But This what you talking about is fuel Allomancy not by Preservation, but Honor instead. Noone without Connection to Honor can  breath Stormlight (Vasher eats Stormlight to feed his Divine Breath, but he cannot use it to fuel any magic, no matter from Endowment or Honor). Maybe Duralumin Compounder would be able to do something with this, but not other Metalborn.

10 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

 

One other thing I think is that Scadrian's could likely get access to Nahel Bonds while Rosharn's would almost never acquire metal abilities. Consider a dustbringer or skybreaker who is also a Duralamin nat. The division surge might be able to create nuclear level effects with minimal stormlight.

Yep, and is possible to steal Nahel Bond with Hemalurgic Spike, and it works normaly -  so Oaths are needet, and breaking Oaths makes Spren Deadeye.

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Yep, and is possible to steal Nahel Bond with Hemalurgic Spike, and it works normaly -  so Oaths are needet, and breaking Oaths makes Spren Deadeye.

But the spren can leave whenever they want.

[BenduLuke]

20 hours ago, Frustration said:

Eh... no,

metal is not the fuel

And that's work?

Scadrians can use metal from anywhere to activate their innate investiture.

yes it is a form of work. metalborn are genetically invested so can convert other power sources like stormlight to use their abilities so long as they realize it may work for them.

11 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Eeeee...

No.

Metal is metal. Right, is everywhere, and metalborn can harvest it everywhere. But this is still the same Allomancy without hacking - powered by Preservation, anywhere Allomancer happened to be. But This what you talking about is fuel Allomancy not by Preservation, but Honor instead. Noone without Connection to Honor can  breath Stormlight (Vasher eats Stormlight to feed his Divine Breath, but he cannot use it to fuel any magic, no matter from Endowment or Honor). Maybe Duralumin Compounder would be able to do something with this, but not other Metalborn.

Yep, and is possible to steal Nahel Bond with Hemalurgic Spike, and it works normaly -  so Oaths are needet, and breaking Oaths makes Spren Deadeye.

For Scadrian's Allomancy even when powered by stormlight is still Harmony's investiture. Preservation's investiture is provided by the Nahel bond and fueled by Stormlight.

Since divine breath fuels Vashers investiture when he is feeding his divine breaths with Stormlight he is fueling his magic.

Scadrian's don't need to steal a Nahel bond with hemalurgy or otherwise, the spren can simply bond them like normal then they would have access to Roshar's surges, but before that Stormlight could fuel their metal abilities. To steal a nahel bond with hemalurgy you would need to use it on both the KR and their Spren at minimum.

How do you think you might convert stormlight to fuel metalborn abilities? Since we know that some are trying to transport it off planet for just that reason and Brandon said it can be used, he just didn't tell us how or what is required directly. I think a metal born would need to realize that it can be fuel, and then see how KR's ingest it for use then practice until they got it. Stormlight is virtually raw fuel that almost anyone can use. It can fuel breaths, sand, allomancy, forgery, dor, and any other system in the cosmere and do it without unacceptable moral or ethical concerns.

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Scadrians can use metal from anywhere to activate their innate investiture.

no, they use it to acces Harmonies investiture, not theirs.

10 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

yes it is a form of work. metalborn are genetically invested so can convert other power sources like stormlight to use their abilities so long as they realize it may work for them.

no it isn't.

11 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

For Scadrian's Allomancy even when powered by stormlight is still Harmony's investiture. Preservation's investiture is provided by the Nahel bond and fueled by Stormlight.

no

11 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Scadrian's don't need to steal a Nahel bond with hemalurgy or otherwise, the spren can simply bond them like normal then they would have access to Roshar's surges, but before that Stormlight could fuel their metal abilities. To steal a nahel bond with hemalurgy you would need to use it on both the KR and their Spren at minimum.

False on every level, (Excluding bonding normally)

12 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

How do you think you might convert stormlight to fuel metalborn abilities? Since we know that some are trying to transport it off planet for just that reason and Brandon said it can be used, he just didn't tell us how or what is required directly. I think a metal born would need to realize that it can be fuel, and then see how KR's ingest it for use then practice until they got it. Stormlight is virtually raw fuel that almost anyone can use. It can fuel breaths, sand, allomancy, forgery, dor, and any other system in the cosmere and do it without unacceptable moral or ethical concerns.

Then why can't the Fused use it?

Or Vasher awaken with it?

You are so wrong it's not even funny, that simply isn't the case. That's like saying anyone can use stormlight to fuel awakening if they think about it the right way.

[BenduLuke]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

no, they use it to acces Harmonies investiture, not theirs.

no it isn't.

no

False on every level, (Excluding bonding normally)

Then why can't the Fused use it?

Or Vasher awaken with it?

You are so wrong it's not even funny, that simply isn't the case. That's like saying anyone can use stormlight to fuel awakening if they think about it the right way.

If Vasher powers breaths using Stormlight he is increasing his awakening. It may be that he is turning a regular breath into a God breath.

Asking why Fused can't use Stormlight is like asking why Allomancers can't use Feruchemy. Venli can use both because she has a bond with both sources just like Twin born can use both because they have the genetics for both.

No Brandon talked about how hemulurgy needed to be used to steal a Nahel bond.

Of course it is a form of work just like Kaladin had to work to consciously take in and use stormlight.

Right Stormlight would power Harmony's investiture in their genetics. It is that investiture in their genetics that enables them to use metal anywhere, and potentially fuel their metal abilities with any source like Stormlight, and Breaths. Metal born unlike many others such as KR's are innately invested by Harmony everywhere. They can expand that investiture through Nahel bonds, bonding EON's, giving them access to other abilities, but they can also potentially fuel Harmony's investiture within them using Rosharan Light, Dor, Breaths or even Sand with perhaps understanding how to ingest the source.

How do you think Metalborn might use stormlight for fuel? Brandon said it is possible.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

If Vasher powers breaths using Stormlight he is increasing his awakening. It may be that he is turning a regular breath into a God breath.

He's using it to keep himself alive, reimuing his soul with investiture

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

Asking why Fused can't use Stormlight is like asking why Allomancers can't use Feruchemy. Venli can use both because she has a bond with both sources just like Twin born can use both because they have the genetics for both.

Exactly! Metalborn can't use Stormlight for the same reason.

2 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

No Brandon talked about how hemulurgy needed to be used to steal a Nahel bond.

And where might I ask did he mention spiking the spren?

4 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Of course it is a form of work just like Kaladin had to work to consciously take in and use stormlight.

If it where that easy he would have said yes.

4 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Right Stormlight would power Harmony's investiture in their genetics. It is that investiture in their genetics that enables them to use metal anywhere, and potentially fuel their metal abilities with any source like Stormlight, and Breaths. Metal born unlike many others such as KR's are innately invested by Harmony everywhere. They can expand that investiture through Nahel bonds, bonding EON's, giving them access to other abilities, but they can also potentially fuel Harmony's investiture within them using Rosharan Light, Dor, Breaths or even Sand with perhaps understanding how to ingest the source.

....

The metal is a key, it has no power of it's own, how many times do we have to say it.  And Genetics doesn't change anything about it.

7 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

How do you think Metalborn might use stormlight for fuel? Brandon said it is possible.

It's also possible for Fullborn to survive for extended periods of time in a better way than Atium Ccompounding, doesn't mean that looking at it a different way is what it is. The answer to how they use it is form a connection to Honor.

[BenduLuke]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He's using it to keep himself alive, reimuing his soul with investiture

Exactly! Metalborn can't use Stormlight for the same reason.

And where might I ask did he mention spiking the spren?

If it where that easy he would have said yes.

....

The metal is a key, it has no power of it's own, how many times do we have to say it.  And Genetics doesn't change anything about it.

It's also possible for Fullborn to survive for extended periods of time in a better way than Atium Ccompounding, doesn't mean that looking at it a different way is what it is. The answer to how they use it is form a connection to Honor.

I saw it in a WOB a while back that someone else posted in one of the topics.

Alright instead of telling me I am wrong tell me what work you think a Metalborn would need to use Stormlight?

Of course metalborn investiture has everything to do with genetics. Being an allomancer is a genetic inheritance just like being a feruchemist is another genetic inheritance, and twin born have both. Being a fused has to do with a bond to Odium, and being a Radiant has to do with a bond to Honor, but Venli has a bond to both. No one on Roshar has an innate investment so they need a bond to use Light. Metalborn have an innate investment so they can use Rosharan Light to unlock their Metal abilities in addition to any metal they can find.

The more difficult conversion would be a KR trying to use metal to unlock their abilities, because that is possible too. Which metals would unlock which surges and in what way?

Oh Vasher uses those same Stormlight powered breaths to awaken cloth while talking to Kaladin.

Edited January 28, 2021 by BenduLuke

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

Alright instead of telling me I am wrong tell me what work you think a Metalborn would need to use Stormlight?

I already told you, form a connection to Honor. Either through F-duralumin, Nahel bond, Lerasium-Tanavastium alloy etc.

2 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Of course metalborn investiture has everything to do with genetics. Being an allomancer is a genetic inheritance just like being a feruchemist is another genetic inheritance, and twin born have both. Being a fused has to do with a bond to Odium, and being a Radiant has to do with a bond to Honor, but Venli has a bond to both. No one on Roshar has an innate investment so they need a bond to use Light. Metalborn have an innate investment so they can use Rosharan Light to unlock their Metal abilities in addition to any metal they can find.

....

Where are you getting this?

[BenduLuke]

14 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I already told you, form a connection to Honor. Either through F-duralumin, Nahel bond, Lerasium-Tanavastium alloy etc.

....

Where are you getting this?

Genetics: Alloy of Law.

Bonding: Way of Kings -  Rhythm of War.

Converting: WOB's.

F-Duralumin doesn't make sense because it is too limiting. Tanavastium doesn't make sense because no Metalborn are attuned to it. All metalborn can potentially use stormlight to unlock their abilities. Nahel bond wont allow metal abilities. Try again.

Edited January 28, 2021 by BenduLuke

[Frustration]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, BenduLuke said:

Genetics: Alloy of Law.

Bonding: Way of Kings -  Rhythm of War.

Converting: WOB's.

... You are the only person who reached that conclusion, if it were so Sandmasters could use metal to master Sand.

On 1/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, BenduLuke said:

F-Duralumin doesn't make sense because it is too limiting. 

And? You never asked for a sustainable way to use it, it might take a while but it would let you do it.

On 1/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, BenduLuke said:

Tanavastium doesn't make sense because no Metalborn are attuned to it. 

So now attunement matters? Also note I said Lerasium-Tanavastium alloy, are you purposely missing what I'm saying.

On 1/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, BenduLuke said:

All metalborn can potentially use stormlight to unlock their abilities. Nahel bond wont allow metal abilities. Try again.

If you are Metalborn having a nahel bond doesn't stop you from using metals. I feel like you are trying to be difficult.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Frustration

[Aspiring Writer]

25 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

All metalborn can potentially use stormlight to unlock their abilities.

Cite your evidence. This has not been confirmed.

[+Bzhydack]

1 hour ago, BenduLuke said:

Genetics: Alloy of Law.

Bonding: Way of Kings -  Rhythm of War.

Converting: WOB's.

F-Duralumin doesn't make sense because it is too limiting. Tanavastium doesn't make sense because no Metalborn are attuned to it. All metalborn can potentially use stormlight to unlock their abilities. Nahel bond wont allow metal abilities. Try again.

1 hour ago, BenduLuke said:

Of course metalborn investiture has everything to do with genetics. Being an allomancer is a genetic inheritance just like being a feruchemist is another genetic inheritance, and twin born have both. Being a fused has to do with a bond to Odium, and being a Radiant has to do with a bond to Honor, but Venli has a bond to both. No one on Roshar has an innate investment so they need a bond to use Light. Metalborn have an innate investment so they can use Rosharan Light to unlock their Metal abilities in addition to any metal they can find.

Metalborn are Connected to Preservation by genetics. Why Hoid wasnt using just Stormlight to fuel his Allomancy, but ingested metal instead? Hoid has the largest knowledge about Investiture in Cosmere, and is Lerasium Mistborn (and also Feruchemist). Why he caries metal with him on Roshar, if all he need is Stormlight?

Answer is - he dont know how to do this. It isnt simple.

2 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

Scadrians can use metal from anywhere to activate their innate investiture.

This works for Feruchemy. For Allomancy they draw Preservations Investiture throu the metal. It is precisly stated in Hero of Ages, in Wobs, everywhere.

 

2 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

Stormlight would power Harmony's investiture in their genetics.

Stormlight is Honors Investiture. Literaly Honor essence. To get access to Shard Power you need Connection to this shard. You have Connection to Preservation by being Scadrian. You have Connection to Honor by having Spren. This isnt interchangable (yet).

 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 hours ago, BenduLuke said:

Oh Vasher uses those same Stormlight powered breaths to awaken cloth while talking to Kaladin.

He doesn't know how to do this.

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ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

Additionally, not even Hoid knows how to do so:

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Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

[...]

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

Presumably, he's got some legit Breath on him.

Edited January 29, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope

[SwordNimiForPresident]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Presumably, he's got some legit Breath on him.

I don't have my book on me, but I believe he touch each piece of cloth after sparing with Kal. This tells me he was gathering his Breath back up.

 

As to the larger discussion. Could a metalborn kill a Spren with A-Chromium? If so, they could use A-Bronze to find the Radiant's Spren and then kill it with A-Chromium. Alternatively they could use an Ettmetal grenade charge with A-Chromium and throw it at the Radiant while they have their blade summoned.