Scadrian vs. Rosharan magic post RoW

[BenduLuke he/him]

55 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

@BenduLuke EDIT POSTS.

I have been thinking about this post and I still don't understand?

[Aspiring Writer]

1 minute ago, BenduLuke said:

I have been thinking about this post and I still don't understand?

Don't double post, edit posts. A few times might be acceptable, but you have done it more than probably anyone on the server, from what I've seen.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

2 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

I have been thinking about this post and I still don't understand?

You double posted by replying to two separate messages. Instead, just reply to the two messages by multi-quoting or pinging the person you're responding to.

[BenduLuke he/him]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

You double posted by replying to two separate messages. Instead, just reply to the two messages by multi-quoting or pinging the person you're responding to.

Sorry I am still getting the hang of this. I have no idea how to ping someone. Not sure what I double posted. I only just figured out that I could multi post and am working out when to use it and when not to.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Just now, BenduLuke said:

Sorry I am still getting the hang of this. I have no idea how to ping someone. Not sure what I double posted. I only just figured out that I could multi post and am working out when to use it and when not to.

Pinging someone just involves typing their username with an "@" in front of it. For example, @BenduLuke would ping you.

[BenduLuke he/him]

13 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Pinging someone just involves typing their username with an "@" in front of it. For example, @BenduLuke would ping you.

Ok thanks. I will work on not double posting. Perhaps what seems like double posting is me responding to posts as I find them  when I do that I do try to vary the response base on the specific post. I also try to include related posts with the multi post. I actually started by using the multi quote button without realizing that I could include multiple responses with it. You may have noticed that I have started including quotes from multiple posts recently.

@Aspiring Writer What do you mean by editing posts?

Thanks for you patience.

Edited January 29, 2021 by BenduLuke

[Aspiring Writer]

8 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Ok thanks. I will work on not double posting. Perhaps what seems like double posting is me responding to posts as I find them  when I do that I do try to vary the response base on the specific post. I also try to include related posts with the multi post. I actually started by using the multi quote button without realizing that I could include multiple responses with it. You may have noticed that I have started including quotes from multiple posts recently.

@Aspiring Writer What do you mean by editing posts?

Thanks for you patience.

next to the quote button there's something that says edit. click that to edit your previous posts.

[BenduLuke he/him]

4 minutes ago, Aspiring Writer said:

next to the quote button there's something that says edit. click that to edit your previous posts.

so like I did to add a ping to you?

How does that help in an on going back and forth discussion?

Should I have edited my previous post to ask these questions?

Edited January 29, 2021 by BenduLuke

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, BenduLuke said:

a new twin possibility I have been thinking about is an Iron Twin compounder. I wonder if the resonance between A&F could produce living metal skin making them very durable. Would another side effect be immense strength since Iron Ferings like Wax gain proportional strength to manage their increased weight. They would almost certainly become a near immovable person which would aid in pulling.

Not likely, Twinborn resonance's are worse then Radiants and the Radiant ones aren't that good to begin with.

[The Technovore he/him]

45 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Not likely, Twinborn resonance's are worse then Radiants and the Radiant ones aren't that good to begin with.

Now that's interesting, why do you say that? F-Gold compounding can make someone survive multiple bullets, and F-steel can turn people into blurs of motion. I'm curious about your stance there.

You know, there was another Scadrial vs Roshar post that got hotly debated, and I believe it mostly ended with "Scadrial would win because Kandra would wreak havoc on Rosharan command structure.", but obviously several books for both worlds have been published by then. I believe Iron-compounding as a WMD was mentioned there, which I find intriguing. Wouldn't it be possible to create ettmettal-iron cylinders a-la GI Joe to create mass destruction? I guess that's assuming windrunners wouldn't intercept and lash it into the sky... I'm rambling, I'll stop.

[Frustration]

Just now, The Technovore said:

Now that's interesting, why do you say that? F-Gold compounding can make someone survive multiple bullets, and F-steel can turn people into blurs of motion. I'm curious about your stance there.

Using two powers are not a resonance, a resonance is like Winndrunners having more squires, or Lightweavers having advanced memory, nothing dramatic.

[The Technovore he/him]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Using two powers are not a resonance, a resonance is like Winndrunners having more squires, or Lightweavers having advanced memory, nothing dramatic.

Aahhh, right, that makes sense

[BenduLuke he/him]

22 hours ago, Frustration said:

Not likely, Twinborn resonance's are worse then Radiants and the Radiant ones aren't that good to begin with.

Why would you say that Gold compounding Resonance produces people who can survive decapitation. Other twin compounders could also have comparable abilities.

21 hours ago, The Technovore said:

Now that's interesting, why do you say that? F-Gold compounding can make someone survive multiple bullets, and F-steel can turn people into blurs of motion. I'm curious about your stance there.

You know, there was another Scadrial vs Roshar post that got hotly debated, and I believe it mostly ended with "Scadrial would win because Kandra would wreak havoc on Rosharan command structure.", but obviously several books for both worlds have been published by then. I believe Iron-compounding as a WMD was mentioned there, which I find intriguing. Wouldn't it be possible to create ettmettal-iron cylinders a-la GI Joe to create mass destruction? I guess that's assuming windrunners wouldn't intercept and lash it into the sky... I'm rambling, I'll stop.

What resonant effects do you think an Iron twin compounder might have? 

A steel twin compounder would be flash with projectiles and stand off ability.

21 hours ago, Frustration said:

Using two powers are not a resonance, a resonance is like Winndrunners having more squires, or Lightweavers having advanced memory, nothing dramatic.

Not exactly. Wax is a far better coinshot because of his weight control and Miles was almost immortal because of the his Gold Resonance. Depending on which metals a Twinborn has it could create a wide range of powerful and useful abilities. A Bronze compounded twin could be a tireless sentinel and able to determine the weaknesses of any invested being. A bronze-a:tin-f twin would be able to pierce copper clouds and perhaps have other sense related abilities.

20 hours ago, The Technovore said:

Aahhh, right, that makes sense

Not really. Some metal resonances are incredibly powerful and often lead to savant abilities. Kaladin is a Lashing savant, and Wax is a coinshot savant (why he had a steel bubble).

What resonance effects do you think an Iron Twin compounder might have?

Iron pulls metals and manipulates weight how might that combination interact. One side effect of F-Iron is proportional strength, and if you have enough weight your density would need to increase to contain that weight since Wax doesn't grow when he maxes his weight or shrink when he minimizes it, but he doesn't compound Iron either, so he is only working with what weight he stores over time.

Edited January 30, 2021 by BenduLuke

[The Technovore he/him]

7 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

What resonance effects do you think an Iron Twin compounder might have?

Well like Frustration said, resonance isn't the same as compounding, a small but important distinction. Iron compounding produces the feruchemical effect, so compounded Iron means suddenly gaining an insane amount of weight. For a human on the breeze, it's likely lethal, but if you could somehow put that effect on, say, a large rod of osmium being hauled in the sky, multiplying its weight by I-don't-even-know-how-much, and that rod could devastating shockwaves when it hits the surface. We saw this with Wax tapping all his weight at once (wasn't that to escape an explosion? I don't remember, but he basically demolished a good chunk of building right?), so I can imagine it would be quite effective with compounding.

Edited January 30, 2021 by The Technovore

[BenduLuke he/him]

4 minutes ago, The Technovore said:

Well like Frustration said, resonance isn't the same as compounding, a small but important distinction. Iron compounding produces the feruchemical effect, so compounded Iron means suddenly gaining an insane amount of weight. For a human on the breeze, it's likely lethal, but if you could somehow put that effect on, say, a large rod of osmium being hauled in the sky, multiplying its weight by I-don't-even-know-how-much, and that rod could devastating shockwaves when it hits the surface. We saw this with Wax tapping all his weight at once (wasn't that to escape an explosion? I don't remember, but he basically demolished a good chunk of building right?), so I can imagine it would be quite effective with compounding.

Wax crashed through a floor, the explosion devastated his room. It also made him and his pushes stronger since he had the proportional strength to handle the extra weight/mass, and weight matters when you are pushing or pulling on metal. Waynes resonance may be keeping him young even with all his time jumping. A seeker tin-F could store their flared bronze sense in Tin and recover it as an F-sense all at once. Imagine the effects a Soulbearer twinned with many allomantic abilities. They can store investiture and tap it all at once. A stored Steel push, Iron pull, pewter strength, soothing, or rioting would be incredible if tapped in a short period of time (more effect than flaring, more targeted than duralumin).

Resonances when talking about metal born are potentially very powerful depending on the combinations. Radiant's have set resonances because they have set power sets. Besides Kaladin's resonance is nothing to scoff at. Vin's resonance is to make physical light and thats nothing to disregard either. (Physical light = Soulcast + lightweave). Illusions you can touch and hear, and perhaps more.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, BenduLuke said:

Why would you say that Gold compounding Resonance produces people who can survive decapitation. Other twin compounders could also have comparable abilities.

What resonant effects do you think an Iron twin compounder might have? 

A steel twin compounder would be flash with projectiles and stand off ability.

Not exactly. Wax is a far better coinshot because of his weight control and Miles was almost immortal because of the his Gold Resonance. Depending on which metals a Twinborn has it could create a wide range of powerful and useful abilities. A Bronze compounded twin could be a tireless sentinel and able to determine the weaknesses of any invested being. A bronze-a:tin-f twin would be able to pierce copper clouds and perhaps have other sense related abilities.

Not really. Some metal resonances are incredibly powerful and often lead to savant abilities. Kaladin is a Lashing savant, and Wax is a coinshot savant (why he had a steel bubble).

What resonance effects do you think an Iron Twin compounder might have?

Iron pulls metals and manipulates weight how might that combination interact. One side effect of F-Iron is proportional strength, and if you have enough weight your density would need to increase to contain that weight since Wax doesn't grow when he maxes his weight or shrink when he minimizes it, but he doesn't compound Iron either, so he is only working with what weight he stores over time.

Compounding is not a resonance, magibabble will not make your statements true, compounding is not a resonance, Wax is not a Savant(through he was planned to be) resonance is a extra "quirk" Kaladin is not a Savant, you use Cosmere terminology but you are using it in all the wrong ways.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

On 30.01.2021 at 10:41 PM, BenduLuke said:

Not exactly. Wax is a far better coinshot because of his weight control and Miles was almost immortal because of the his Gold Resonance. Depending on which metals a Twinborn has it could create a wide range of powerful and useful abilities. A Bronze compounded twin could be a tireless sentinel and able to determine the weaknesses of any invested being. A bronze-a:tin-f twin would be able to pierce copper clouds and perhaps have other sense related abilities.

Resonance is 3d, additional power what comes with other two. Not mix of two powers. Compounding is not resonance, is closer ot Reverse Lashing. Reverse Lashing is Gravitation and Adhesion Surges combine, Compounding is fueling Feruchemy with Allomancy. But this is not Resonance.

For Windrunner Resonance is atracting people and having more Squires. Not Surges combined.

For Lightweavers is photographic memory. Also not Surges combined.

For Edgedancers is ability to comunicate very well. Also not Surges combined.

For Wax is his insane accuracy. Not Arts combined.

On 30.01.2021 at 10:41 PM, BenduLuke said:

Not really. Some metal resonances are incredibly powerful and often lead to savant abilities. Kaladin is a Lashing savant, and Wax is a coinshot savant (why he had a steel bubble).

Wax isnt Steel savant. It was retconed. And Steel Bubble isnt Savant ability, isnt also Resonance weve seen other Coinshot doing this.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Bzhydack

[LewsTherinTelescope]

19 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

For Edgedancers is ability to comunicate very well. Also not Surges combined.

Theorized but RAFOd, not confirmed.

19 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

For Wax is his insane accuracy. Not Arts combined.

Wax's resonance is the steel bubble. (Though it's... complicated.)

21 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Steel Bubble isnt... Resonance weve seen other Coinshot doing this.

Brandon apparently disagrees. Which.... alright then, Brandon. I'd agree with you here, but....

[+Bzhydack he/him]

11 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Theorized but RAFOd, not confirmed.

Wax's resonance is the steel bubble. (Though it's... complicated.)

Brandon apparently disagrees. Which.... alright then, Brandon. I'd agree with you here, but....

Quote

The Alloy of Law Annotations (Nov. 30, 2015)
#3 Nov. 30, 2015 Share Copy

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

Marasi is an Allomancer

One of my big goals in these post-epic Mistborn books is to give a chance for more limited-power people (Mistings and their Feruchemical cousins, Ferrings) a chance to shine. In the previous trilogy, the focus really was on the Mistborn. Vin and Kelsier fit the epic fantasy mindset I wanted, powerful in an epic sort of way, broadly capable with abilities in a lot of areas.

For these books, I wanted to show people who had one or two powers, instead of sixteen, and show how specialization can achieve some incredible results. Because of that, I intentionally held back in the first trilogy in letting Vin do a few things. (Note how much better Zane was with minute steelpushes and ironpulls than she was.) Vin was incredibly skilled, but because she had so many powers to work with, she didn't home in as much on any one of them. Things like Wax's steel bubble are tricks I wanted to save for people like Wax. (He's what we’d call in the Mistborn world a steel savant, so capable with his metal—and having burned it so long, for so many years—that he's got an instinctive ability with it that lets him be very precise.)

And so we come to Marasi, who has the power opposite—but paired with—Wayne's ability. Both she and Wayne have powers I wanted to delve into. Indeed, I kind of promised that the last metals would get highlighted in these newer books. Matching that, I've given Miles the same power the Lord Ruler used to heal himself from so many incredible wounds. I wanted to explore more of what this skill was capable of when not overshadowed by so many other powers and abilities.

Here Brandon said is Savantism, not Resonance.

In latter your WoB Brandon said Wax isnt Savant.

It cannot be Resonance, because Wax is only Crasher on Scadrial now, and we've seen other Coinshot doing this trick. In Bands of Mourning, Train Fight.

And Books goes before WoBs.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

It cannot be Resonance, because Wax is only Crasher on Scadrial now, and we've seen other Coinshot doing this trick. In Bands of Mourning, Train Fight.

Rereading the WoB, it sounds like he might instead be saying that Wax is just really good at the steel bubble and related things as the resonance, which... alright, that's kinda lame I guess. Hopefully it's more than that.

[BenduLuke he/him]

On 1/30/2021 at 4:20 PM, Frustration said:

Compounding is not a resonance, magibabble will not make your statements true, compounding is not a resonance, Wax is not a Savant(through he was planned to be) resonance is a extra "quirk" Kaladin is not a Savant, you use Cosmere terminology but you are using it in all the wrong ways.

Compounding is a Resonance just a very specific kind of Resnance when one is both a fering and misting of the same metal. A resonance between a Bronze misting and Tin fering would be the ability to store Bronze sense then potentially tap it in a feruchemical way just like any other sense. Wax's steel pushes are enhanced and refined by Iron fering abilities. the extreme accuracy is due in part to his steel abilities, but using vindication is aided by Iron tapping. More weight mean more able to resist vindications recoil just like changes in weight change steel pushes.

20 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Resonance is 3d, additional power what comes with other two. Not mix of two powers. Compounding is not resonance, is closer ot Reverse Lashing. Reverse Lashing is Gravitation and Adhesion Surges combine, Compounding is fueling Feruchemy with Allomancy. But this is not Resonance.

For Windrunner Resonance is atracting people and having more Squires. Not Surges combined.

For Lightweavers is photographic memory. Also not Surges combined.

For Edgedancers is ability to comunicate very well. Also not Surges combined.

For Wax is his insane accuracy. Not Arts combined.

Wax isnt Steel savant. It was retconed. And Steel Bubble isnt Savant ability, isnt also Resonance weve seen other Coinshot doing this.

steel bubble is a savant ability which is why other coinshots can achieve it. Wax is also an Iron fering savant.

16 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Rereading the WoB, it sounds like he might instead be saying that Wax is just really good at the steel bubble and related things as the resonance, which... alright, that's kinda lame I guess. Hopefully it's more than that.

Really good indicates Savant ability. Marsh was a Bronze Savant.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Compounding is a Resonance just a very specific kind of Resnance when one is both a fering and misting of the same metal. A resonance between a Bronze misting and Tin fering would be the ability to store Bronze sense then potentially tap it in a feruchemical way just like any other sense. Wax's steel pushes are enhanced and refined by Iron fering abilities. the extreme accuracy is due in part to his steel abilities, but using vindication is aided by Iron tapping. More weight mean more able to resist vindications recoil just like changes in weight change steel pushes.

Look here https://coppermind.net/wiki/Resonance

also

Fullborn can compound all metals, yet

WoB

Spoiler

Yata

There is something that recently was debated by some fans and I hope you may give some clue about the "side effect of interaction between magic" as was pointed in the Twinborn and Surgebinder cases: Are those "perks" stackable? To say if I am a Fullborn like Rashek, wil I have all the possible Twinborn's perks or a specific "Fullborn's perk"? And about the same topic, a Mistborn or Full Feruchemist has his own perk/perks?

Brandon Sanderson

I've worked under the premise that if you hold too many of the powers, like a Mistborn, the result is a loss of these little quirks. The mechanics of it are interesting, but I'll leave you to theorize on that sort of thing.

General Reddit 2016 (Oct. 5, 2016)

so no, compounding is not a reasonance

[BenduLuke he/him]

31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Look here https://coppermind.net/wiki/Resonance

also

Fullborn can compound all metals, yet

WoB

  Hide contents

Yata

There is something that recently was debated by some fans and I hope you may give some clue about the "side effect of interaction between magic" as was pointed in the Twinborn and Surgebinder cases: Are those "perks" stackable? To say if I am a Fullborn like Rashek, wil I have all the possible Twinborn's perks or a specific "Fullborn's perk"? And about the same topic, a Mistborn or Full Feruchemist has his own perk/perks?

Brandon Sanderson

I've worked under the premise that if you hold too many of the powers, like a Mistborn, the result is a loss of these little quirks. The mechanics of it are interesting, but I'll leave you to theorize on that sort of thing.

General Reddit 2016 (Oct. 5, 2016)

so no, compounding is not a reasonance

I don't agree with your interpretation of the articles.

Mistborn and Fullborn suffer from the generalizeation problem like Fused who are usually more skilled like Mistings in thier limited abilities than KR's or Mistborn, worse for Fullborn.

I don't remember where I read it but Compounding is a specific form of Resonance. I am sure you can look it up. maybe I will later but I am short on time today.

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, BenduLuke said:

Mistborn and Fullborn suffer from the generalizeation problem like Fused who are usually more skilled like Mistings in thier limited abilities than KR's or Mistborn, worse for Fullborn.

What?

We know they can compound, that's why TLR is so old he's been compounding Atium, he uses Steel against Kelsier, and used Gold to Heal himself in the past.

[BenduLuke he/him]

21 hours ago, Frustration said:

What?

We know they can compound, that's why TLR is so old he's been compounding Atium, he uses Steel against Kelsier, and used Gold to Heal himself in the past.

I miss-stated myself I meant resonance not compounding.

Brandon refers to metals working because of the resonance of the metal to the power filtered through its structure so compounding is a very specific kind of resonance that occures when you apply that metals structure in 2 different applications A&F.

Lyndsey Luther

Ok, last question. It was really difficult coming up with three questions that haven’t been asked already...

Brandon Sanderson

OK... you’re not going to ask me the “what would you ask me” question?

Lyndsey Luther

Not quite...

Brandon Sanderson

OK good, because I hate that one! (laughs)

Lyndsey Luther

My question is if there’s anything that you’ve never been asked that you would like to talk about?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between AonDor [the magic system from Elantris] and Allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, Compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with Feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a Feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the Feruchemical charge overwrites the Allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel Feruchemy with Allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an Allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of Feruchemical power. That’s why Compounding is so powerful.

Open The Fridge Interview (Nov. 16, 2011)

In one WOB you could potentially use A-Pewter to charge a Goldmind. A-Bronze would charge a Tin-mind with allomancy sense. Getting increased allomantic effects is potentially possible as well, but we haven't seen any clear examples yet.

Some of the potential resonances Wax has are an inborn or intuitive understanding of momentum and gravity. Perhaps even a little durability and reaction speed.