Mat Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Ok! I need to read the rules again, as it was over a week the last time I did. I guess I could read Gears' post as opposed to skimming it, also I think the Truthless is a good point of discussion to start with, what do we say about their survival/death? On one hand, their wincon doesn't impact ours but on the other killing them wastes a cycle. But it'd be nice to let them win, y'know? Actually, the more I think about it the Truthless is just a big IKYK waiting to happen. If someone is obviously acting suspicious, is it an elim, the Truthless, an elim trying to appear so obviously as the Truthless to get us not waste a cycle on them, but we'll think they're an elim who is actually Truthless... y'know, what's the downside to killing someone trying to appear as the Truthless? Villagers obviously won't. Elims would (riskily) to avoid being lynched for wasting a cycle, but I dunno how much of a waste that would be. I guess it depends on how many people we have as Truthless candidates, and if we even are going to think about the role. 20 minutes ago, Gears said: Conclusion: We must keep the Truthless alive. What makes you say this? Daziron hefted a spear, looking out at the Shin country. Such a strange nation, with the soft ground and the green... spikes emerging out of it. Spikes, but soft to the touch. The ground made Daziron feel like he would sink right into it, but because he was one of the Gravitation Fused he didn't have to set foot on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|TJ| Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Gears said: Stone Shaman: Immortal while the Truthless lives. You may wish to just claim D1, get lynched, be proven innocent, and carry on. However, that is a great way for the Truthless to take advantage of this strategy and get lynched. Vedel, Chanarach, we need PMs so the Stone Shaman can claim to everyone and get killed a few times to prove it. You get to know everyone who has an Honorblade and take them back. You may wish to pass blades along to trustworthy people. Find trustworthy people. Gears. You want us to waste several cycles lynching the Shaman to confirm their identity? Rather than just waste 1 cycle lynching the Truthless? The Stone Shaman should be very careful with their identity, not throw it around like that, because the Truthless will pursue their win-con and if they die, then the elims would already know the identity of Shaman and just kill them. Edited December 5, 2020 by TJ Shade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingbooks Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Since the Stone Shaman gets a list of who has an Honorblade at the end of each day, if an Honorblade bearer is killed by an elim and the elim chooses to take the Honorblade, then they will definitely be one of the new Honorblade bearers at the end of the next day. Even though multiple Honorblade swaps might happen each turn, this'll still help the Stone Shaman create a list of suspects. The elims could, of course, choose not to take the Honorblade from their victim, but one of their win conditions is having all of the Honorblades, so I find it unlikely that they'd pass up the chance. The Stone Shaman should create a list of the changes in Honorblade ownership each night that an Honorblade bearer is killed and share it if they are discovered by a lynch. Just now, Ookla's Dice said: What makes you say this? The Truthless is important because the Stone Shaman can't be lynched or night killed unless the Truthless dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experience Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, STINK said: Gears Just so you know gears claims elim every single game, so him doing that is pretty much NAI. So, stuff. I really like the conversation already, there's a good amount of info. @STINK, just to be sure, was that a poke, were you voting for him claiming elim, or another reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Flyingbooks42 said: The Truthless is important because the Stone Shaman can't be lynched or night killed unless the Truthless dies. Ah, thank you. This is why I need to reread the rules... Edit: @Ookla the Shadowed, I believe stink is voting Gears for not claiming elim Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla's Dice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experience Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Ookla's Dice said: Ah, thank you. This is why I need to reread the rules... Edit: @Ookla the Shadowed, I believe stink is voting Gears for not claiming elim But he did. He said I'm not claiming, seeing as I'm elim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessential Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Okay, so having read this, I'm revising my statement: I agree with almost all of what Gears said, except that I think the Stone Shaman shouldn't claim openly, ever, since their only fail-safe is going to be actively trying to commit death. So, Stone Shaman, find someone you trust through the PMs that (hopefully) will be opened at some point, and claim to them? Or just do your own thing I guess. Edit: @Ookla the Shadowed I normally like paradoxes and contradictions but that is making my brain hurt. Edited December 5, 2020 by Quinn0928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Gears said: Alternatively, just claim Stone Shaman. Since the Truthless specifically needs to be lynched (as opposed to Night Killed) to win, I don't think they would do this. I'm also going to vote for Experience/@Ookla the Shadowed since I don't like your post. Seems vaguely like a thing a villager would say without actually saying anything. Edit: Gears was elim in the MR. That is the context of the comment in his first post. Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla the Araris Valerian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Ookla the Shadowed said: But he did. He said I'm not claiming, seeing as I'm elim. He said he's not claiming anymore as he's now been an elim. And he has, in my MR that just concluded. I don't see anything in there where he claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Note the Stone Shaman is always immune to the lynch. The Truthless also makes them immune to non-Nightblood night kills, but the Stone Shaman will not die from a lynch even after the Truthless dies. Looking back that is a little confusing... whoops. Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla Fell From The Sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experience Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Ookla's Dice said: He said he's not claiming anymore as he's now been an elim. And he has, in my MR that just concluded. I don't see anything in there where he claimed. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ok. Ya, I read that wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintessential Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ookla Fell From The Sky said: Note the Stone Shaman is always immune to the lynch. The Truthless also makes them immune to non-Nightblood night kills, but the Stone Shaman will not die from a lynch even after the Truthless dies. Looking back that is a little confusing... whoops. Just a bit, yeah lol The point still stands, though. The elims definitely want to take out the Stone Shaman, so as soon as the Truthless dies, a Stone Shaman who has claimed is done for. Also, If the Stone Shaman claims, Szeth can immediately kamikaze them anyway (also @Ookla Fell From The Sky who would Nightblood pass to in that case?). Edit: I wonder if one of the secret roles has the win-con of being killed by Nightblood... Edited December 5, 2020 by Quinn0928 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 OTHER NOTE. Everyone who has an Honorblade starts with 2 Stormlight. Every Radiant (Szeth and Kaladin) instead start with 3 Stormlight. They will again recieve these amounts every Highstorm (end of N3, N6, N9... hopefully that’s the last one). 2 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said: Just a bit, yeah lol Also, If the Stone Shaman claims, Szeth can immediately kamikaze them anyway (also @Ookla Fell From The Sky who would Nightblood pass to in that case?). Edit: I wonder if one of the secret roles has the win-con of being killed by Nightblood... Awkward whistling... If Szeth kamikazes... Nightblood goes to a random player. This will be the general rule if the killer is dead and therefore unable to claim a blade (ie they kill someone with a blade but are killed themselves). Note this happens during the Night>Day rollover and doesn’t delay a turn like if the killer had a chance to claim the blade. PAFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvron Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Since the Shaman can basically steal any and all Honorblades the elims gather, killing them is vital if they go for that win con. Claiming Shaman is not a good idea imo, although the rest of Gears post is very well thought out and contains some great points.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 I...Apparently need to re read the rules... What is Kamikaze? Why is the Shaman's fail safe dying? What????? 27 minutes ago, Ookla's Dice said: I think the Truthless is a good point of discussion to start with, what do we say about their survival/death? On one hand, their wincon doesn't impact ours but on the other killing them wastes a cycle. But it'd be nice to let them win, y'know? I...I never know what to do about jester roles. on one hand, it doesn't hurt us to kill them, but on the other hand if someone is acting suspicious it might be because they are purposefully trying to act like a jester so they can stay alive- so basically I'm going to try and play as if the Truthless doesn't exist. 16 minutes ago, Ookla the Shadowed said: But he did. He said I'm not claiming, seeing as I'm elim. I would respond to this, but people already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: on one hand, it doesn't hurt us to kill them It does hurt us to kill them though. The Shaman becomes vulnerable to a Night kill if the Truthless dies. A wasted lynch is also a pretty significant cost. Barring a situation such as knowing all the elim identities prior to LyLo (we have a lynch to spare), I don't think we should consider lynching the Truthless. Also, as I mentioned above, I doubt we will have the chance. If the Truthless reveals, the elims would probably Night Kill them, and that's game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: What is Kamikaze? It's not a mechanic, just the situation where Szeth kills himself to take out the Shaman 7 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: I...I never know what to do about jester roles. on one hand, it doesn't hurt us to kill them, but on the other hand if someone is acting suspicious it might be because they are purposefully trying to act like a jester so they can stay alive- so basically I'm going to try and play as if the Truthless doesn't exist. What Araris said. Though when I wrote my post I had forgotten the benefit of the Truthless' survival, and I believe you did as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotary of Spontaneity Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 49 minutes ago, Gears said: Gravitation: Learn one target. It may be difficult to use this information, since you would have to actually reach out to other people to learn things about your chosen. Vedel: Abrasion and Progression. Given that I’ve asked Chanarach to do PMs, telling you to do PMs as well seems a bit extra. Solution: Chanarach, do PMs N1. Vedel, do PMs N2. That way, we have continual PMs for a while, without necessary coordination. While that happens, try to find each other so you can coordinate. Protect the ones who seem like they will be brutally murdered in the dead of night. Stone Shaman: Immortal while the Truthless lives. You may wish to just claim D1, get lynched, be proven innocent, and carry on. However, that is a great way for the Truthless to take advantage of this strategy and get lynched. Vedel, Chanarach, we need PMs so the Stone Shaman can claim to everyone and get killed a few times to prove it. You get to know everyone who has an Honorblade and take them back. You may wish to pass blades along to trustworthy people. Find trustworthy people. Since you're not going to claim elim this game, there's no need to give them advice. Gravitation is an elim ability since the Shin possess neither Jezrien's nor Nale's Honorblades. I'm pretty sure the elims can start with Honorblades, or at least there's nothing that says they can't, so Chanarach and Vedel finding each other doesn't necessarily mean they're both village. The Stone Shaman is not immortal while the Truthless lives. Nightblood can kill them at any time, and Szeth (who multiple people seem to have missed starts out with Nightblood) gains the ability to do so safely N4 at the latest, earlier if the elims stumble upon Ishar's Blade. Absolutely do not claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ookla the Araris Valerian said: I don't think we should consider lynching the Truthless. You're assuming though that they'll know who the Stone Shaman is. There's plenty of people and not a lot that the Stone Shaman can do differently to let the Elims know who they are. I'm not considering killing off the Truthless specifically, but I'm not against killing people acting obviously suspicious just because they might be the Truthless. But yeah, I also forgot about that rule :P. EDIT: Huh. Basically pointless, but if I were to use Illumination on myself and someone were to roleblock me...would the roleblock go through? Edited December 5, 2020 by Ooklil' the Wei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: EDIT: Huh. Basically pointless, but if I were to use Illumination on myself and someone were to roleblock me...would the roleblock go through? Illumination affects both yourself and another target. I know I put that in there somewhere... And Illumination does stop roleblocks targeting the Illuminator. So you and your target will still gain the benefits of Illumination. Edit: "Will still be gain". Nice one, Ash. Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla Fell From The Sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condensation Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Viola-daughter-Condensation sighed. It had taken her a while, but she'd finally recovered from that... incident with the Hemalurgic Intelligence. Now she had joined the Shin to live peacefully, although it was kind of different from what she was used to. The trusting grass, the sweet fruits... it was truly a paradise. Yes, she'd heard that some people had broken in, but she was sure she wouldn't need to get involved. At least, she hoped so. Please note that Viola and Connie are extremely similar in their looks, although Connie's hair is black with a bluish sheen and her skin has a translucent slightly blue tint where Viola's hair and skin lack the blue additions. I say we be more careful than in my past games, the elims won all of those. New strategy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Just now, Ookla the Grammatical said: I say we be more careful than in my past games, the elims won all of those. New strategy! The elims... have been winning a lot lately. I've only played two village wins. And yes one of those I was an elim Caution doesn't hurt though. PM safety isn't an issue now, but that would be nice to try to improve from recent games I kinda want to vote before I head off to bed, but a later rollover for me doesn't provide enough content for me to feel like putting a vote down just yet. Y'all can analyze that decision while I sleep if you want 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--- Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ookla the Grammatical said: I say we be more careful than in my past games, the elims won all of those. New strategy! Connie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condensation Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said: Connie Can I get some reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Somebody from Scadrial Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 I will claim Elim *drops mike* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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