Long Game 72: The Secret of Shinovar

[Condensation she/her]

Viola-daughter-Condensation sighed. Despite her efforts to help in the ways she knew how, she had garnered more suspicion than previously. It was a shame, but first guesses were often wrong. She went walking in a field, shoes sinking softly into the soil that allowed Shinovar to be so unlike the rest of Roshar. It helped her think. After a couple of hours, she found a hopeful solution. If she could only keep from being lynched this one cycle, perhaps she could chat privately with some of the others. She might even be able to find someone to trust, although sometimes it took a while. Her thoughts turned to other matters. Her sister, Connie, had recently sent her a letter. She'd survived not one but two assassination attempts and was planning to come visit after a little bit on Scadrial. Viola grinned, looking forward to it. She'd have to make sure she could get out if the others decided she wasn't trustworthy. She returned to the main area, finding that what she had said earlier had made others even more suspicious and two of them had already decided that she should be ejected. The others could soon follow. She decided that this was a good thing without too much indecision.

18 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

I could tell, and it makes me feel better about my vote on you

I think my problem with Gears' posts is the giving advice bit, because even though I think it's interesting to see what Gears thinks, they phrase it in a way that is (telling) the village (er, and Elims) what they should do.

I don't see people tunneling on gears tbh, I see Stink being Stink and people trying to tell him not to. 

I also think that looking for "good evidence" Day one just helps people find an excuse to not vote.

People read them when they join, but then might not look over them before posting on the thread because they want to respond to the thread because it's finally up and people are talking and I can talk and I like talking :P. 

Okay, maybe I'm overreacting a little bit. It's only two votes on me. Then again, I'm fairly certain people have been lynched with less.

I have used the advice. It's handy even if Gears is an elim because they can't post anything too obviously elim, so I can trust it fairly well. When I was a Hemalurgist(that was actually Viola as well), it kept me alive until the end(when the elims won).

Wouldn't it be better to refrain from voting first cycle unless we have really good evidence? It's always been wrong in my games, and the chance of them actually being an elim are slim.

And I think I might get to that point, but I'm currently in a stage where I want to know and plan starting right when I sign up. I haven't done an extensive study of the rules, but I know my way around them pretty well.

Edit: Illwei, it may seem pretty obvious, but it certainly hasn't been followed well in my past games. If we don't kill anyone D1, we still have time to think and we can find better evidence.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla the Grammatical

[Quintessential she/her]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Grammatical said:

Wouldn't it be better to refrain from voting first cycle unless we have really good evidence? It's always been wrong in my games, and the chance of them actually being an elim are slim.

The counterpoint to this is that in MR46, if there had been just one more vote on Aman, we would have lynched an elim C1. The C1 lynch can be right, and even if it's not it can give us information.

[Condensation she/her]

1 minute ago, Quinn0928 said:

The counterpoint to this is that in MR46, if there had been just one more vote on Aman, we would have lynched an elim C1. The C1 lynch can be right, and even if it's not it can give us information.

Wait, if C1 stands for Cycle One, then what's D1? Because I thought I saw people using that.

It can be right, but it's unlikely. And information... based on reads of the dead person? No one has concrete reads C1 but the elims, who already know who each other are.

[Quintessential she/her]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Grammatical said:

Wait, if C1 stands for Cycle One, then what's D1? Because I thought I saw people using that.

It can be right, but it's unlikely. And information... based on reads of the dead person? No one has concrete reads C1 but the elims, who already know who each other are.

C1 is cycle 1. D1 means "Day 1" (I guess I should be using D1 since you can only lynch during the day), as opposed to N1 (night 1)

[Condensation she/her]

Just now, Quinn0928 said:

C1 is cycle 1. D1 means "Day 1" (I guess I should be using D1 since you can only lynch during the day), as opposed to N1 (night 1)

Okay, makes sense. Thanks.

[Mat he/him]

20 minutes ago, Ookla the Grammatical said:

Wouldn't it be better to refrain from voting first cycle unless we have really good evidence? It's always been wrong in my games, and the chance of them actually being an elim are slim.

What good evidence would we have D1? Nothing. Nothing has happened, nothing could have happened. There is no possible way to get evidence D1. 

What if we don't vote, then? N2: No deaths. We're in the exact same place as before. Nothing has happened, nothing could have happened. Sure, once D2 begins there will be a kill or two, but we'll only have alignments to go off and maybe a hunch cross-referencing their posts with who they interacted with. Maybe.

The vote count is a huge outlet for analysis, as it's one of the only village-controlled (or should be village-controlled) deaths. Elims, especially D1 elims, will want to steer the focus away from teammates, and D1 is useful for that because villagers don't know enough to recognize it when it happens. I will always be an advocate for a D1 lynch unless there is a huge swing in the meta, the vote analysis I view as too valuable to stave off for a 'better chance' at lynching an elim. 

That being said, it makes me wonder why you waited three games to bring this up. New players who say this do so in their first game, though I suppose your reasoning behind it wouldn't have worked then. Either way I'm feeling okay about my vote here.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla's Dice

[Quintessential she/her]

2 minutes ago, Ookla's Dice said:

That being said, it makes me wonder why you waited three games to bring this up. New players who say this do so in their first game, though I suppose your reasoning behind it wouldn't have worked then. Either way I'm feeling okay about my vote here.

Huh. Actually, Matrim makes a good point. I think... I think I'll vote Condensation/Ookla the Grammatical, on the reasoning that I know she's already seen the arguments for a C1/D1 lynch because we spent a good portion of MR46 C1 discussing them.

Edit: It may have been QF48, actually, but she was in both so either way she's seen the discussion before.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Quinn0928

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Quinn0928 said:

Huh. Actually, Matrim makes a good point. I think... I think I'll vote Condensation/Ookla the Grammatical, on the reasoning that I know she's already seen the arguments for a C1/D1 lynch because we spent a good portion of MR46 C1 discussing them.

Edit: It may have been QF48, actually, but she was in both so either way she's seen the discussion before.

As much it looks weird for me to be defending Connie, I think this point is flawed. Connie's reasoning for arguing against the D1 lynch is that in her past games they always ended in a villager death. She couldn't have made that point in her first game as she hadn't played a game yet. I addressed this in my post with this:

Quote

I suppose your reasoning behind it wouldn't have worked then.

But I maybe should have been more clear.

(Granted, apparently Connie spectated her siblings' games, so that counterpoint could be redundant. But I dunno)

[Quintessential she/her]

4 minutes ago, Ookla's Dice said:

As much it looks weird for me to be defending Connie, I think this point is flawed. Connie's reasoning for arguing against the D1 lynch is that in her past games they always ended in a villager death. She couldn't have made that point in her first game as she hadn't played a game yet. I addressed this in my post with this:

But I maybe should have been more clear.

(Granted, apparently Connie spectated her siblings' games, so that counterpoint could be redundant. But I dunno)

Also, neither QF48 nor MR46 was her first game, if I recall correctly, so she could have made the argument then as well, and I don't recall her doing that. Also, again, in MR46 we almost did catch an elim, and if more of us had voted we very well might have. So... I mean...

I suppose you could be right, Matrim, but I'm still keeping my vote where it is, based on your reasoning as well as mine. 

[STINK he/him]

Wait we still do discussions on D1 lynches?

[Quintessential she/her]

Just now, STINK said:

Wait we still do discussions on D1 lynches?

Apparently? New players bring it up, and it gets discussed, or something like that. 

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, STINK said:

Wait we still do discussions on D1 lynches?

Routinely, when new players say "No!" and everyone else says "Yes!"

[Illwei]

Wow. Okay. I leave for five minutes to update my spreadsheet and I return to a whole conversation that just happened. And here I was thinking it was a brief pause in talking. coolio.

Uhh Both Matrim and Quinn said what I was thinking, so there's no point in me responding. I don't want Connie to feel like people are starting to gang up on her, but yeah. Connie seems like she's playing differently than the last two games, and though that might be because she's learning to play and such, it's still suspicious to me. I'm open to other votes, someone just needs to propose them. Connie, I'm not going to switch off of you onto nothing, so if you want me off then you find me someone you think is suspicious.

3 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

and if more of us had voted we very well might have.

This is a huge point. I mean, a big part was just that I didn't wanna kill Aman, that's kinda rude, but also there were like 6 votes in cycle one. Why have we been killing off villagers recently connie? because the village has decided not to vote in these past few games, and that's let the Elims gain control. Whether they do it by not voting or voting they still have control. 

-----

I was going to respond to some posts before that I forgot about, so in reading over the thread I saw them so I'm going to respond now. 

1 hour ago, Quinn0928 said:

Also, reasoning on the SfS village read would be nice, Matrim... claiming elim is not really indicative of whether you are village or not at this point, since we've had enough villagers do it that elims can feel safe doing it as well. That being said, since SfS has said literally nothing else I don't have a read on them either.

I think it depends on how the person claims Elim. The way Gears has been doing it, hidden kinda, it's like "oh, look, a joke" but if someone were to come out and be like "Hey guys, I'm an Elim btw." that's different. or- well, I can't think of it. 

34 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Okay, for the record, I did think you had one excellent piece of advice: that whoever has Chanarach's Honorblade open PMs N1, and whoever has Vedel's open PMs N2, and then that they alternate from there, regardless of who has them. That way, we can always have PMs open, but both people are free to do other actions some of the time (well, once every six cycles, but still). 

Obviously we can't force the two of you to follow that plan, but it would probably benefit just about everyone for us to reliably have PMs, so... Yeah. Those are my two cents on that particular point.

Edit: No, @Ooklil' the Wei you were responding to me.

Progression can also be useful though, and stuff like that. I think more useful to the village than Abrasion, but anyways what I wanted to respond to was you? saying earlier that the Elims probably want to open PMs too, which I say probably not unless they're feeling lonely. their whole advantage is that they can talk to eachother privately (well, in addition to other things since it's not a vanilla game) and we can't opening PMs might give them he opportunity to manipulate village, but it also lets the village talk where they can't see, and that's not good for them. 

I think...wow. This is not- Wow. I was so against PMs when I started playing because I thought they were better for the Elims. look at me now.

I- I was responding to you? oops. coolio though. 

 

With that my fingers are cold ow i need to stop typing

[Quintessential she/her]

1 minute ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

I think it depends on how the person claims Elim. The way Gears has been doing it, hidden kinda, it's like "oh, look, a joke" but if someone were to come out and be like "Hey guys, I'm an Elim btw." that's different. or- well, I can't think of it. 

Progression can also be useful though, and stuff like that. I think more useful to the village than Abrasion, but anyways what I wanted to respond to was you? saying earlier that the Elims probably want to open PMs too, which I say probably not unless they're feeling lonely. their whole advantage is that they can talk to eachother privately (well, in addition to other things since it's not a vanilla game) and we can't opening PMs might give them he opportunity to manipulate village, but it also lets the village talk where they can't see, and that's not good for them. 

I think...wow. This is not- Wow. I was so against PMs when I started playing because I thought they were better for the Elims. look at me now.

I- I was responding to you? oops. coolio though. 

 

With that my fingers are cold ow i need to stop typing

Yes, the elims have the advantage of being able to talk to each other, but unless they end up with one of the Blades that has Transformation on it, they would need PMs to figure out what other people actually can or can't do.

Also, yes, I know that Progression can be useful, but for the moment there's no point in using because we have no idea who the elims are targeting, who's an elim, or anything else. Since you can't use it to protect from a lynch, the odds are that at this point in the game, using it will simply be wasting a Stormlight. What we need right now is information, and for that PMs are far more useful.

[Illwei]

2 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Yes, the elims have the advantage of being able to talk to each other, but unless they end up with one of the Blades that has Transformation on it, they would need PMs to figure out what other people actually can or can't do.

I guess that plays a larger part in this game than LG67, because one of the wincons is for the Elims to gain all the honorblades. The Elims do have gravitation though, Quinn. Which is basically just as useful to them. They don't need to know what honorblade, but if someone is doing an action then they most likely have an honorblade. 

Which is why I Implore everyone to not say if they have an honorblade to anyone. It's of course your decision, but I personally don't see the benefit in claiming to anyone. it doesn't confirm you village no matter what you do, it doesn't help you unless you think you need help with what to do with your actions, which I don't think people should be doing anyways. (not the actions bit, the help bit.) The only thing it does is possibly alert the Elims and get them to kill you :P. 

Anyways, also, Progression might not be useful right away, but again there are three cycles and two action uses. While I like PMs, you can't assume that the Village has both of those Honorblades, and Progression is still a good thing to have just in case. 

[Condensation she/her]

13 minutes ago, Ookla's Dice said:

What good evidence would we have D1? Nothing. Nothing has happened, nothing could have happened. There is no possible way to get evidence D1. 

What if we don't vote, then? N2: No deaths. We're in the exact same place as before. Nothing has happened, nothing could have happened. Sure, once D2 begins there will be a kill or two, but we'll only have alignments to go off and maybe a hunch cross-referencing their posts with who they interacted with. Maybe.

The vote count is a huge outlet for analysis, as it's one of the only village-controlled (or should be village-controlled) deaths. Elims, especially D1 elims, will want to steer the focus away from teammates, and D1 is useful for that because villagers don't know enough to recognize it when it happens. I will always be an advocate for a D1 lynch unless there is a huge swing in the meta, the vote analysis I view as too valuable to stave off for a 'better chance' at lynching an elim. 

That being said, it makes me wonder why you waited three games to bring this up. New players who say this do so in their first game, though I suppose your reasoning behind it wouldn't have worked then. Either way I'm feeling okay about my vote here.

I guess that's true, but I'm often more Kant than Bentham. In my opinion, if the action is moral then the outcome doesn't matter. Bentham is the ends justify the means. It still seems kind of useless to me. I seem to remember bringing it up before, although that could be just me. The reason I brought it up now is because I've had three games where it happened. There's an old Celtic saying that covers it. One man may be deceit. Two can be conspiracy. Three is the number I trust.(Props if you get the reference!) And another saying: Three's a crowd. When it happened the first and second time, there was still a possibility that they were outliers. Three is often my line, no matter what it's for.

5 minutes ago, Ookla's Dice said:

(Granted, apparently Connie spectated her siblings' games, so that counterpoint could be redundant. But I dunno)

Quote unquote spectated. Occasionally they would come to me, explain a bit of the situation and their plans, and I would advise them on how to act since I'm good at acting innocent.

[Quintessential she/her]

14 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

I guess that plays a larger part in this game than LG67, because one of the wincons is for the Elims to gain all the honorblades. The Elims do have gravitation though, Quinn. Which is basically just as useful to them. They don't need to know what honorblade, but if someone is doing an action then they most likely have an honorblade. 

Which is why I Implore everyone to not say if they have an honorblade to anyone. It's of course your decision, but I personally don't see the benefit in claiming to anyone. it doesn't confirm you village no matter what you do, it doesn't help you unless you think you need help with what to do with your actions, which I don't think people should be doing anyways. (not the actions bit, the help bit.) The only thing it does is possibly alert the Elims and get them to kill you :P. 

Anyways, also, Progression might not be useful right away, but again there are three cycles and two action uses. While I like PMs, you can't assume that the Village has both of those Honorblades, and Progression is still a good thing to have just in case. 

Hmmm I guess I hadn't thought of Gravitation like that... as a villager it doesn't necessarily tell you as much, but if you're an elim, you would only use it on non-elims, and anyone you scan who has an action is probably worth killing, whether they have an Honorblade or not.

Regardless of that, I'd argue that in some cases it probably does make sense to tell someone you have an Honorblade. Tension, Illumination, and Progression are more useful if you know that the person you target them with is a Bearer, so it's especially important for the Bearers of Vedel's Honorblade, Pailiah's Honorblade, and Ishar's Honorblade to know of other people who have Honorblades; less so for Shalash, since whoever has that blade also has a blade-scan, but it's still beneficial to them to have Light-free way of learning about others. It's risky to claim to have a particular Honorblade, but I don't think that never claiming is the solution here; if the villagers have no idea of who has the other Honorblades, then it becomes far harder for us to effectively use Illumination, Progression, and especially Tension, and all three of them are important surges.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Quinn0928

[Illwei]

22 minutes ago, Ookla the Grammatical said:

Three is often my line, no matter what it's for.

So, First I'd like you to look at my post.

then I thought I'd look at the Past three games you were in:

QF48: In this game D1 Experience was killed for proposing we try a strange strategy. 2/4 votes on him were Elims. There were 9 people voting in total, (people abstaining because they brought up the point you're talking about, no good reasoning D1.) and they were all voting on different people, allowing the Elims to come in and take control. (and there were more Elims voting than just those 2, just only 2 on experience.)

LG71:Okay so this one was....I don't even know. The v/v trains were mostly village fault, Araris was the only relevant voting Elim. Again though, only 9/23 people voted.

MR46: We almost caught an Elim D1, but 1) not enough people voted, and 2) some people weren't okay with fear killing Aman.

Now, I don't see a pattern besides the fact that each time a villager died, as it was all different situations (though all of them were that the village needs to just vote more.)
Of course there's never enough info. If we do hit an Elim it's probably mostly luck. sometimes not, but sometimes yeah. as people have said, delaying the "D1" execution puts us at a worse situation, and there's nothing to do but do the same thing, just one villager down. I'm done arguing this though. 

12 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Regardless of that, I'd argue that in some cases it probably does make sense to tell someone you have an Honorblade

 

I- 
So this is assuming that Village has all of them, which is something I don't believe. It might be more balanc-y, considering Kaladin and Szeth, but I don't want to assume village has them all. 
While that's technically true, it still risks the Elims getting the Honorblades, which means that they'll have one more tool and be that much closer to their wincon. 

also I want to say that if you (you in the general sense of *gestures wildly with hands* yous) are up for the vote and You claim to have an Honorblade publicly, that's more of a reason for me to kill you. 

EDIT: Kill as in vote out. I'm not claiming Elim :P. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ooklil' the Wei

[Flyingbooks]

I think that anybody who doesn't vote should at least give an explanation of why they aren't voting in order to give us more information to work with and force less active people to participate & analyze more. Even though voting is very important for the village so that the elims don't take control of the lynch, eople might have good reasons for not voting on a particular round, but I've noticed that people who don't vote rarely explain why they do so.

 

My very tentative reads (not including people who haven't posted and null reads):

Mild village:  Matrim, Quinn

Very mild village: Illwei, stink

Very mild elim: Connie

 

Since she's my only read on the elim side of the spectrum so far, I will put my vote on Condensation.

 

Tsezn walked out of the council meeting room onto the strange, squishy "soil" with its grass that didn't seem to care whether it was stepped on or not. The attacks had put a big dent in their research - it was hard to investigate how the Honorblades worked when they were spread amongs several unknown people and never summoned.  As Tsezn walked over a hill, they came upon a Fused floating above the ground. A Fused? Here? This is bad news. At least they're one of the Heavenly Ones, so I probably don't need to worry about them attacking civilians as much as I would have if they were a different brand of Fused. Even so, it shows just how far Odium's forces have spread. I need to try to end this state of emergency as soon as possible and get back to figuring out how the Honorblades work.

[STINK he/him]

56 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Apparently? New players bring it up, and it gets discussed, or something like that. 

 

56 minutes ago, Ookla's Dice said:

Routinely, when new players say "No!" and everyone else says "Yes!"

It is the right of new players to go 'ew murder' and old players either link previous posts summarising why it's good or just say 'yay murder' but not to the newbies cause otherwise they'll never not be newbies u know. But yeah, I've never engaged in those lol just leave the morals be

31 minutes ago, Ookla the Grammatical said:

I guess that's true, but I'm often more Kant than Bentham. In my opinion, if the action is moral then the outcome doesn't matter. Bentham is the ends justify the means. It still seems kind of useless to me.

Questionable summary aside, I'm genuinely loving this mindset going into a game about murder please never change

[Condensation she/her]

4 minutes ago, STINK said:

Questionable summary aside, I'm genuinely loving this mindset going into a game about murder please never change

I'll try not to.  Murder is bad even if it's for a good cause.

Can I get a vote count? Because that's either... 3 or 4 votes on me. @Ookla Fell From The Sky

[Illwei]

I guess I'll post some of my reads so far, though they will most likely change with Connie's Flip:

Matrim: Some things in their posts seem like things that I would avoid saying if I was an Elim. I still have a bad gut read on them though, so kinda wary on this connie flip. I want to read them as village though, so maybe I'll do that. 
Quinn: They seem to be thinking, thinking is good. iirc they also seemed to be thinking in QF48. Bad gutread on them that I want to listen more to. their want for PMs is vil to me right now, unless they're trying to confuse me like that :P. 
Connie: Hmm. See, I'm wary of how fast this picked up. However, connie isn't as defensive as I thought I remember her being. If I was devoted enough I might look back through her past games and see if I'm right, but she doesn't seem as defensive. Calmly explaining her reasoning as she's in the lead with votes doesn't feel the same. 
Stink: Evil

Who Else has posted? I guess everyone else is null for me right now. 

[Quintessential she/her]

1 hour ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

So this is assuming that Village has all of them, which is something I don't believe. It might be more balanc-y, considering Kaladin and Szeth, but I don't want to assume village has them all. 
While that's technically true, it still risks the Elims getting the Honorblades, which means that they'll have one more tool and be that much closer to their wincon. 

also I want to say that if you (you in the general sense of *gestures wildly with hands* yous) are up for the vote and You claim to have an Honorblade publicly, that's more of a reason for me to kill you. 

EDIT: Kill as in vote out. I'm not claiming Elim :P. 

I'm not assuming the village has all of them, especially since Ash declined to confirm whether we do or not. Also, as soon as a Bearer dies there's a chance that an elim has one, regardless of whether the elims started off with one or not. Also, Kaladin can claim to have Ishar's Blade and use a vote-change demonstrate/gain legitimacy (like SfS did with Danex in MR46). 

However, regardless of that, the elims will be able to coordinate their surges, and if the village wants to stand a chance against them we'll likely have to do the same to some extent. It's a risk, but it's one we sort of have to take at some point. I do think that the Stone Shaman should avoid claiming unless it's either necessary or almost certain that the person they're claiming to is village.

1 hour ago, Flyingbooks42 said:

I think that anybody who doesn't vote should at least give an explanation of why they aren't voting in order to give us more information to work with and force less active people to participate & analyze more. Even though voting is very important for the village so that the elims don't take control of the lynch, eople might have good reasons for not voting on a particular round, but I've noticed that people who don't vote rarely explain why they do so.

I like this idea; it makes it harder for the elims to hide through inactivity, and it gives us more to get a read off of. 

Also I think I may very well become one of those players who advocates for lynching inactives later in the game, since I never again want to see all the active villagers get voted out (including myself) and then sit in the dead doc watching the elims rein free.

1 hour ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

Quinn: They seem to be thinking, thinking is good. iirc they also seemed to be thinking in QF48. Bad gutread on them that I want to listen more to. their want for PMs is vil to me right now, unless they're trying to confuse me like that :P. 

...iirc I actually stayed in the background for most of QF48. Since it was my first game and the other elims advised me to appear relatively inactive, since new players can get away with that pretty easily. I tried not to put my opinions out there too much, except in the elim doc which you wouldn't have seen until the end of the game.

I did do a lot of thinking in MR46, though I think it did more harm than good tbh...

Edit: oof I didn't realize I double-posted... sorry...

[Illwei]

I'm not Ash, and I don't have names, but I have

Connie (4): uh maybe me, Quinn, Books, Matrim?
Gears (2): stink and...TJ?
XP (1): I don't remember but I think Araris

EDIT: *couch* Quinn double post *couch* does a mod wanna be nice and merge it

I mean, in QF48 you did think. it's why I thought you were village at first, because you...I guess you didn't play inactive newbie well enough, but you did think...not as much as last game, but you did think.

EDIT EDIT: Hold on Matrim and I only have half of Quinn's post count how is this possible Matrim step it up

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ooklil' the Wei

[Condensation she/her]

2 minutes ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

Connie: Hmm. See, I'm wary of how fast this picked up. However, connie isn't as defensive as I thought I remember her being. If I was devoted enough I might look back through her past games and see if I'm right, but she doesn't seem as defensive. Calmly explaining her reasoning as she's in the lead with votes doesn't feel the same. 

Oh yay, my acting's working! Seriously though, my siblings could tell you. I'm totally acting, plus I read through some more games and I'm prepared to deal with this in some of the first cycles like my other games. I get attention eventually, I think. My heart's pounding, though. I'm also planning my 'last post' just in case.

Thanks for the vote count.