Quick Fix 46: Mysteries within Secrets

[Illwei]

1 hour ago, Gears said:

@Illwei, @Lord_Silberfarben, @Young Bard, talk more please.

Sorry, trying to talk more. So far what I've thought up, other people have posted and better than I would have phrased it so I don't post it because I don't see a reason. Other than showing people what I'm thinking/(who I agree with?). which isn't different than what some others are thinking.

[Mat he/him]

So, biggest JP suspects: Devotary of Spontaneity and Illwei

Devotary because of their vote/reasoning for said vote on Mint last cycle. Illwei for the strange JP question in their first post and other posts being like the last one, partial Gut.

I also have in my notes that if Illwei is JP then Pyro also likely is, though I don't remember my reasoning for that. I'll look into that.

[Illwei]

17 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

So, biggest JP suspects: Devotary of Spontaneity and Illwei

Devotary because of their vote/reasoning for said vote on Mint last cycle. Illwei for the strange JP question in their first post and other posts being like the last one, partial Gut.

I also have in my notes that if Illwei is JP then Pyro also likely is, though I don't remember my reasoning for that. I'll look into that.

The JP question? I didn't think it was a question, It was me thinking out loud. is it because I put question marks everywhere? I can try and stop doing that? I can try and stop doing that.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Illwei said:

The JP question? I didn't think it was a question, It was me thinking out loud. is it because I put question marks everywhere? I can try and stop doing that? I can try and stop doing that.

Even if it was just you thinking out loud, it's still a strange and oddly specific thing for you to be thinking.

[Illwei]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Even if it was just you thinking out loud, it's still a strange and oddly specific thing for you to be thinking.

It was- I was thinking a lot of things, I- there were definitely more thoughts there that led there, just by the time I got to writing the post...Idk the thoughts seemed...implied? to me? Sorry I was thinking of...Hold on I have to go back and check to even see what I wrote

Right! okay I think it related to people wanting/not wanting to lynch the cultists, and whether or not the JP would want to try and focus the lynch inwards! but if you already implied that then i guess this post means nothing lol. Anyways-

[Sart he/him]

Rollover is very inconvenient for me, which means this is probably going to be my only post for this cycle. I'm going to do an ISO of Lotus. We know she was a Practitioner, so we should be able to learn more about the other Practitioners by analyzing their posts.

Nothing game relevant here.

It's interesting that Lotus asked this question in the thread, rather than in the Jeskeri doc.

Lovely RP, but nothing game relevant.

Supports lynching me. Yet more evidence that I am a Korathi.

Bad grammar for one thing. It's there not their. It's also interesting that she continues to ask rules questions in the thread. Perhaps she was trying it as a way to make herself look innocent?

Interacts with TJ Shade here, but there's not a lot to go off of. Again, voices suspicion of me.

Mentions that Pyro PM'd them. Very interesting.

Votes on Pyro due to prolific PM'ing. This makes me read non-Jeskeri on  Pyro.

Defends Ashbringer. That makes me think Ashbringer is in the Jeskeri doc.

Again, nothing game relevant here.

Final Thoughts: I'm voting on Ashbringer. The post defending him reeks of doc coordination.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Sart said:

Supports lynching me. Yet more evidence that I am a Korathi.

...No? The JP don't really want the Korathi lynched. They want the Cultists lynched/dead. I'd say, if anything, that's more evidence you're not a Korathi.

[Illwei]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

...No? The JP don't really want the Korathi lynched. They want the Cultists lynched/dead. I'd say, if anything, that's more evidence you're not a Korathi.

Wouldn't the JP would want to lynch Korathi in an attempt to find the Korathi Cultist? I mean, their goal is not to lynch the Korathi, so being a target of a JP wouldn't make you Korathi, It could make you a JP they suspect (though they have their own lynch for that?), but an ends to that goal is to try and lynch all/most of the Korathi to find the one cultist? 

[Mat he/him]

16 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Wouldn't the JP would want to lynch Korathi in an attempt to find the Korathi Cultist? I mean, their goal is not to lynch the Korathi, so being a target of a JP wouldn't make you Korathi, It could make you a JP they suspect (though they have their own lynch for that?), but an ends to that goal is to try and lynch all/most of the Korathi to find the one cultist? 

Yes, I again have forgotten about the Korathi Cultist... Sorry :P. Though still, it isn't proof, as we don't know how vehement the JP are about finding the Korathi Cultist and the vote could likely be on someone in the doc  just as likely as out of the doc.

[Ashbringer he/him]

1 hour ago, Sart said:

Defends Ashbringer. That makes me think Ashbringer is in the Jeskeri doc.

Final Thoughts: I'm voting on Ashbringer. The post defending him reeks of doc coordination.

This is why I don't like people defending me. It only makes things worse...

I also don't really have a defense I can use against that, besides "no, I'm not in the Jeskeri doc".

And a few other things I've found interesting...

You've still to respond to any of my counters to your strategy. You claim that it was a "bluff" meant to spike discussion. Well, I made a lot of discussion about your strategy, and you haven't mentioned it at all. And now you're voting on me, seeming for a different reason.

Also, if there was a Jeskeri push to not let me be hung, why only Lotus? Surely that adds Jeskeri suspicion to Vapor and Devotary at least. But you haven't mentioned that either.

 

I thought you were a Cultist before. But a Cultist would know that I'm not in the Jeskeri doc. So now I'm not sure.

 

I'll throw a vote on Devotary, for saying that you "don't like the last minute votes". Well, you posted your vote at 11:59, and you've done similar in most games I've seen you playing in. Any suspicions you'd like to share while we have time to analyze them?

Edited July 30, 2020 by Ashbringer

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

I'll throw a vote on Devotary, for saying that you "don't like the last minute votes". Well, you posted your vote at 11:59, and you've done similar in most games I've seen you playing in. Any suspicions you'd like to share while we have time to analyze them?

Those specific last minute votes, not last minute votes in general.

Hmm. Mint didn't read as a Cultist, so I don't actually think you and Vapor are Practitioners. Though Pyro wouldn't really be a great alternative unless you knew he was in the Jeskeri doc. Definitely going to look at TJ again with Lotus being a Practitioner, but I don't know if Practitioner!TJ would have voted in thread and in a doc. I don't like Matrim saying it's 'much preferred' to kill a Cultist over a Korathi, but going after someone who had anti-Cultist sympathies didn't go well the first time. I want to know what's going on with the Pyro-Hael-3rd person PM triangle where Pyro apparently claimed Cultist to Hael, mentioned this fact to X, then X PMd Hael.

[Kasimir he/him]

5 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Those specific last minute votes, not last minute votes in general.

Hmm. Mint didn't read as a Cultist, so I don't actually think you and Vapor are Practitioners. Though Pyro wouldn't really be a great alternative unless you knew he was in the Jeskeri doc. Definitely going to look at TJ again with Lotus being a Practitioner, but I don't know if Practitioner!TJ would have voted in thread and in a doc. I don't like Matrim saying it's 'much preferred' to kill a Cultist over a Korathi, but going after someone who had anti-Cultist sympathies didn't go well the first time. I want to know what's going on with the Pyro-Hael-3rd person PM triangle where Pyro apparently claimed Cultist to Hael, mentioned this fact to X, then X PMd Hael.

[OOC] Check this out.

Quote

I can verify Hael's statement. Pyro claimed standard Korathi to me, so I asked Pyro if they claimed to anyone else, and they said they claimed Cultist to Hael. I PMed Hael to confirm.

I'm at work now so I don't have time to RP or say anything substantial. I'll get on at least once before the cycle ends.

[Mat he/him]

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Those specific last minute votes, not last minute votes in general.

I mean, one of those specific last minute votes was yours...

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I don't like Matrim saying it's 'much preferred' to kill a Cultist over a Korathi, but going after someone who had anti-Cultist sympathies didn't go well the first time.

Why? I think it's pretty clear we'd rather lynch a Cultist than a Korathi. The Cultists are actively killing us and the Korathi is, well, us. Of course I'd rather the Cultists die.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

6 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC] Check this out.

Quote

I can verify Hael's statement. Pyro claimed standard Korathi to me, so I asked Pyro if they claimed to anyone else, and they said they claimed Cultist to Hael. I PMed Hael to confirm.

I'm at work now so I don't have time to RP or say anything substantial. I'll get on at least once before the cycle ends.

I did miss that. So you were not telling the truth when you said

Quote

[OOC] I'll try to give thoughts later if I have the time. Really crunched rn. Just gonna add that Pyro asked me, I said I was not, and then our conversation ended.

Asking Pyro if he'd claimed to anyone else is very much not the same thing as ending the conversation after denying being a cultist.

7 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I mean, one of those specific last minute votes was yours...

Why? I think it's pretty clear we'd rather lynch a Cultist than a Korathi. The Cultists are actively killing us and the Korathi is, well, us. Of course I'd rather the Cultists die.

It's just kind of unsettling when two people suddenly vote for the person you were planning on voting for.

Ok, but we can't stop the Cultists from killing us. There is no amount of Cultists we can kill that will stop them from killing us because it only takes one Cultist to kill and we lose once they're all dead. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

Fair enough. Devotary.

The main ones in my sights are TJ, Gears, and Pyro. I'm more sus of TJ Shade, but I want to see what he has to say in his defense first (see my previous post). So @TJ Shade, consider yourself poked until further notice.

Gears I want to see what TJ's alignment is first, and Pyro all I have is that he's established PMs with everyone, which is how he so expertly pocketed the entire Village in LG66. I'm also a little cautious of Illwei, just from inexperience playing with them than a read. 

I'm still suspicious of Sart, but I'm leaning much more towards Cultist!Sart than Prac!Sart. So I can safely avoid that rabbit hole.

Edit: Devotary makes a good point. Matrim, consider yourself somewhat suspected.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Ashbringer

[Mat he/him]

6 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I did miss that. So you were not telling the truth when you said

Asking Pyro if he'd claimed to anyone else is very much not the same thing as ending the conversation after denying being a cultist.

I don't remember exactly, but I think the post "I can verify Hael's statement. Pyro claimed standard Korathi to me, so I asked Pyro if they claimed to anyone else, and they said they claimed Cultist to Hael. I PMed Hael to confirm." is from Gears, not Kasimir.

 

[Ashbringer he/him]

If you guys followed the handy hyperlink that Kasimir provided, you would know that as a fact 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

I don't remember exactly, but I think the post "I can verify Hael's statement. Pyro claimed standard Korathi to me, so I asked Pyro if they claimed to anyone else, and they said they claimed Cultist to Hael. I PMed Hael to confirm." is from Gears, not Kasimir.

Okay, okay, that's the explanation. I saw that under the Kasimir header and assumed it was something Kas had said, but Gears being the one to say that makes more sense.

[Mat he/him]

6 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Devotary makes a good point. Matrim, consider yourself somewhat suspected.

At first I didn't know what point you were referring to, but then I reread Devotary's post and finally understood this:

13 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Ok, but we can't stop the Cultists from killing us. There is no amount of Cultists we can kill that will stop them from killing us because it only takes one Cultist to kill and we lose once they're all dead.

Which is actually a valid and good point, and yet another detail I didn't think of about this game. And with the probable distribution being more Korathi than Cultists, it actually could be better to lynch one of our own.

This is a weird game.

In interest of voting, though, my biggest suspect right now is Illwei, who seems significantly more nervous this game than they did last game, and hasn't put up a defense I'm satisfied with like Devotary has. 

Going to sleep now, see y'all in roughly 9 hours.

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

If you guys followed the handy hyperlink that Kasimir provided, you would know that as a fact 

[OOC] This

---

Found scratched into the broken wheel of a cart:

Quote

Sun was Jeskeri. Doloken. They really are among us. Sun and Hael both suspected Mancia. The question is, why?

Edited for formatting. Again -.-'''

Edited to add: [OOC] Striker, you can consider yourself included in the question, as I forgot you went after Pyro too.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Kasimir

[|TJ| he/him]

I fell asleep waiting for the next cycle to be posted. And now to answer @Ashbringer.

Quote

There's a few other things that I've noticed in you're posts that are odd. Your first post had an odd tone, as if you were focusing on the first lynch instead of the overall game. Odd when there's no votes. You seem to think that Sart wanted to be suspicious of people (like me) who opposed his idea, when he said he only wanted to promote discussion. And you seem to be highly downplaying how much impact losing control of the lynch has on the Korathi. You say that it should be "obvious" that Sart is an old player to Lotus, who is new and has played two games total - and even if Sart has a lot of posts, that doesn't equal a lot of time on SE (I know he has, but Lotus seemingly didn't). And you immediately accepted Lotus' defense as valid and then kept your vote (?).

Your suspicion on me was that I'm conveniently forgetting too many things. Not a single point about it. Now you're just telling my posts are odd. You've just gone through all my posts, basically repeating what I said, and selecting the ones that others might find suspicious. I'll answer them one by one. 

Quote

Your first post had an odd tone, as if you were focusing on the first lynch instead of the overall game.

You're just repeating what multiple people have repeated, so I'll just repeat myself. My point was not to say "I'd be okay with lynching Cultists" which would be very stupid of me to say if I was JP. My point was "Let's not be scared of voting just because we might hit the Cultist". 

Quote

You seem to think that Sart wanted to be suspicious of people (like me) who opposed his idea, when he said he only wanted to promote discussion.

We're...taking Sart for his words? Just because he said he wanted to promote discussion doesn't mean he actually meant it. Yes, I thought Sart's intention was to draw out the people to oppose him and there's a good chance one of them opposing him might be JP. It's equally bad for the village and JP not to have the public Inquisition. I do not believe his claim that he did only wanted to promote discussion. His post was too extreme and aggressive to just promote discussion. But again. how does this make me look suspicious when I'm only questioning his intent? 

Quote

And you seem to be highly downplaying how much impact losing control of the lynch has on the Korathi.

No? Drake told we'd lose if we lost majority. I found it suspicious because I knew (and I expected other villagers to know) we lose when every one of us is dead. Nowhere did I talk about the impact of losing the majority and subsequently losing the control of the lynch? Nowhere did I say "It's fine to lose majority, we can still win!", or implied anything close to it.

Quote

You say that it should be "obvious" that Sart is an old player to Lotus, who is new and has played two games total - and even if Sart has a lot of posts, that doesn't equal a lot of time on SE (I know he has, but Lotus seemingly didn't).

 Again, how is this suspicious? Seeing the content count is a very reasonable way to judge whether a player is new or old. It's a very obvious deduction to make. If a player's content is high, there's a higher chance that they have played a few games as compared to being a new player. The way Lotus framed the question is what made me suspicious. And now we know Lotus was attempting to act innocent, which is what I suspected. 

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And you immediately accepted Lotus' defense as valid and then kept your vote (?).

I didn't? I told since it was C1 suspicion, I hoped that I would be proven wrong by her in case I was wrong, but for now (then) I still suspected her. That's why I kept my vote.

Quote

I hope you can prove me wrong as it is Cycle 1 and there's not much to go on. I just found the difference the confidence level between MR43 and this game to be staggering, and think that you're doing it deliberately. 

Bold and underline mine. Think as in present tense, as in I still believe (at the time of posting) she is deliberately playing up her naivety. Besides, what is your point? Is it suspicious that I seemingly accepted her defence (according to you, which I did not) or that I kept my vote? 

I honestly do not know what to make of you. I still think you're trying to slather suspicion on me, as none of the points you mention hold up strongly. I'll put early pressure on your lynch. I will try to isolate your posts and see if it changes my mind. 

To be edited in with thoughts from posts of this cycle if no one else posts. 

EDIT: 

13 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

So, why Straw? If the cultists were trying to kill Korathi, was he discussed in the Practitioner doc and no one showed any real objection to his kill, so people thought he would be a good target? If so, they underestimated straw. He could have easily turned the kill away from himself without openly defending his kill.

Maybe the Cultists haven't played with Straw much.

I did not understand a single thing from this post. Please explain. xD 

7 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Definitely going to look at TJ again with Lotus being a Practitioner, but I don't know if Practitioner!TJ would have voted in thread and in a doc.

I...I'm sorry that having accurate reads in this game is actually painting suspicion on me, but I really can't do anything to help. I can't really stop looking for JP, can I? If I was a JP, it wouldn't make sense for me to push for Lotus lynch both here and in the doc. 

Disagree with lynch on Illwei. I read their post thinking from JP perspective as genuine thought process regarding game mechanics. Gut non-JP. 

Leaning slight Korathi on Gears for the vote hop in the end. If Ashbringer is JP and Gears is JP, Gears might have believed Ash is Cultist and voted for him. But he had no reason to shift his vote to Mint. Even Cultist!Gears would have no motivation to change the vote from JP (in this case) to Korathi, and I doubt anyone though Mint was KC. If Ash is not JP and Gears is JP, there is no difference in voting for Mint or Ash (assuming Ash is Korathi this time). So he wouldn't have changed his vote from Ash to Mint. Cultist!Gears in this scenario would have no incentive to jump from one villager to another. This is what makes me believe that Gears is Korathi. 

10 hours ago, Sart said:

Defends Ashbringer. That makes me think Ashbringer is in the Jeskeri doc.

Disagree with how surely you're telling this. But my thought process depends on my assumption of how the Jeskeri carry out their Inquisition. 

• If they are just voting in PMs, then Lotus would not know that she was dying, so she could have defending a fellow JP like you said. BUT, she could also have tried to defend a villager that was up for lynch to get village cred. At the time of her statement, Ash had 4 votes and Mint had 1. This is a very possible scenario. 
• If they are voting in docs, then she knew she would die, so she could try to defend a person in the hopes that that person would be suspected after she died. 

Sure, the simplest assumption here is that JP defending JP, but you didn't even consider these scenarios, and voted on him solely for it. If it was in addition to some previous suspicion on Ash, I'd imagine. But that is not the case. 

ISO'd Ash. I think he's definitely not a Cultist. If he's a JP, I'm not sure why he would want to build a mislynch on me. Does he think I'm the KC? That's the only thing I can think of from JP!Ash perspective. Unsure. His attempts to paint suspicion on me is still too suspicious to ignore. If he's a Cultist, why choose me for a mislynch? That means I shouldn't vote for him, even if he's trying to kill me. Bah, this game. 

ISO'd Matrim because I started to feel kinda iffy about him. Call it gut. But found nothing, so still sticking with non-JP read. @Matrim's Dice, what was it that Mint asked you in the PMs that made you suspect her?

That leaves Devotary and Vapor as the remaining people who voted on Mint. I'm not really sure if vote analysis can be used to root out the JP because we're not entirely sure if they will go for themselves or for the Korathi Cultist. So, I'll leave these two alone for now. 

I'm torn between Sart and Ash, but I'll give Ash the benefit of the doubt, at least until he replies to this post. 

@Elbereth, tagging you here because I'm voting while editing the post. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by TJ Shade
No one is postinggg!

[Coffeecat she/her]

I remember someone saying i do this thing where i dont say much.

 

that is because i dont have anything to say.

there is way too much for me to read and not enough time to do so.

 

 

[Mist she/her]

15 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

So, why Straw? If the cultists were trying to kill Korathi, was he discussed in the Practitioner doc and no one showed any real objection to his kill, so people thought he would be a good target? If so, they underestimated straw. He could have easily turned the kill away from himself without openly defending his kill.

Maybe the Cultists haven't played with Straw much.

I'm confused, especially about the last sentence. Clarify please.

Quote

TJ 

First thoughts. Of course our first priority is to lynch a Practitioner, but mislynching a Cultist is NOT bad. They're looking to kill us after all, and they'll prioritise killing us over killing the Practitioners because a. we're larger in number and we win if they kill too many Practitioners and b. they have an in-doc lynch to try and kill Practitioners. 

So lynching a Cultist is not bad just as long as we don't lynch too many of them too often.

I read this slight Jeskeri.

Quote

Sart

NOBODY VOTE IN THE THREAD.

I'm a Korathi. The Jeskeri combined make up a sizable percentage of the town, so I doubt any attempts to lynch a Jeskeri Practitioner will work. Meanwhile, the Jeskeri will be lynching themselves at a rapid rate to try and accomplish their win condition. Instead of killing ourselves, we should let the Jeskeri do our work for us.

Any votes will be viewed as Jeskeri aggression, and I will vote on the first person who votes, for as long as they continue to vote.

I read this as Cultist, although not as Jeskeri.

Quote Devo

Wiping out all the Practitioners obviously loses for the Cultists, but only having one Practitioner is also bad for them, and so long as there are at least two Practitioners it's possible for them to accidentally kill one of their own. Maybe there will be enough dead Korathi that the Cultists won't prefer dead Cultists until there's only one Practitioner left, but that wouldn't be for a while. I suppose claiming might be less likely than bussing even though votes placed in the doc can't be trusted, but it has a similar overall effect. Also, it almost looks like you think the Practitioners know who the Korathi Cultist is when that's definitely not the case.

I'm reading this village since El said that the results of the vote would be in the doc, and I'm guessing elims would know how their lynch works.

Sart voted on Straw. NAI, probably.

I'm wondering what Kas was even doing. 

TJ voted on Lotus. Could be distancing, could be v-e interaction. I'm leaning v-e.

Lotus voted on Pyro, making me lean village on him, although PM interactions are interesting. 

I wanted to see more of Straw's personalities.

I'm looking through C1 and C2. I may be able to post more this cycle; we'll see.

Partial read list

Village lean on Pyro.

Neutral on TJ.

[Mat he/him]

7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

@Matrim's Dice, what was it that Mint asked you in the PMs that made you suspect her?

It wasn't that the question was weird, but that the place she asked it seemed redundant. But the question was that I had said I didn't think Sart was JP in-thread, so what did I think he was, Cultist or Korathi. And I said I didn't think about it because it doesn't matter a whole lot as my main goal was to find the JP.

[Gears]

Illwei is my strongest JP read, though there's not much to analyse. Sart is my strongest not-Korathi read, though I suspect they might be a cultist. I will be amenable to lynching either of these, though I would prefer Illwei. Ashbringer would be fine as well, though I would prefer one of the above two. [My reasoning can be found here, but quick summary: Illwei asked very specific questions and hasn't done anything to change my mind, Sart made that proposal, retracted it, and voted Straw who promptly died, and Ashbringer hasn't done anything that makes me actively wish to keep them alive. I don't have a read on Ash, but they've been noted several times]