Mid-Range Game 36: The Northern Wind

[shanerockes]

14 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to tag the others. @Lumgol @xinoehp512 @shanerockes care to explain why you've been on the Shard but haven't posted your thoughts on the game? EDIT2: Recently, in the case of Lum. (This is why you don't make posts when you're tired)

I haven't been on the shard today actually. I have been packing for my family's vacation and we left earlier and now I finally have a chance to post

[Burnt Spaghetti]

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

I guess I should’ve explained myself better. 

My thought process was that Aman hasn’t been on for almost a week now (plus I haven’t seen him in the Discord either), so he’s like a true inactive. He could be an elim, and even if he isn’t, then at least we’ve already got rid of an inactive so the elims can’t save hospitalizing him for later. I’ll still be up for a few more minutes, so I’m down for changing my vote if you can tear apart my reasoning.

Oh thats fair enough. True inactives are a pain to have.

Just pointing out the flip side of the argument that is that the others have had a chance to say something, and silent lurkers can end up being more dangerous than a currently inactive player with potential for high activity later on, just cause a true inactive we know isnt up to anything, but a lurker can be killing us all from the shdows and we have no info to go on when trying to identify them  (also im laughing at myself. Me. The one who was a habitual lurker back in the day. Talking about the dangers of lurkers and not liking lurkers xD )

I also just miss playing with aman and am hoping he turns up. Its been a long long time since ive played and he was always fun to play with but THATS BEING BIASED it makes perfect sense to lynch off a true inactive

 

 

Oh good shane has appeared! So now is just aman and xeno who havent posted

[StrikerEZ]

5 minutes ago, shanerockes said:

I haven't been on the shard today actually. I have been packing for my family's vacation and we left earlier and now I finally have a chance to post

Oh, I’m sorry. I saw your profile said you were on 8 hours ago and assumed you’d had time to actually visit the thread at some point. My bad.

I really need to go to sleep now, so hopefully I can wake up to some good news tomorrow.

EDIT: @Burnt Spaghetti I totally agree about feeling bad about Aman being a true inactive. Like, it’s been so long since we last played a game together and I was really looking forward to it. But, I really couldn’t find any other good reason to lynch anyone else. Besides just letting RNG decide. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by StrikerEZ

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Well. Im going to be annoying and bring it back to a tie then lurkers make me more nervous than an inactive  and i wanna give aman a chance so, Xeno

 

Also ill laugh so hard if aman ends up surviving, becoming active and ends up being evil and kills us all

Edited July 15, 2019 by Burnt Spaghetti

[DrakeMarshall]

3 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, you could be bringing up the possibility of a double bluff specifically because an elim probably wouldn't do that, but then that just leads into an insane cycle of IKYK's. So I'm gonna leave this alone and let you be, whether you're a villager or an elim pulling off a really good bluff.

I only said it probably wasn't a double bluff. Go big or go home, I say. Double bluffing is boring and lame, a triple bluff is obviously still on the table  You know what else is on the table? Two chalices of wine and a generous pinch of Iocane powder

3 hours ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Okay finally here and going to catch up on the thread. Listened to the audio book of 6th of the dusk because I didn't want spoilers. Sorry for being late to the party but here's a bird I painted while listening to the story. Hopefully it'll help make up for my absence a little. Haha (not sure why the image is sideways) 

Nice bird (Aviar?) drawing. I'd forgotten you were that good at drawing. The bird definitely makes up for any absence. Just you wait the next game I run inactivity will be excused only if the players provide me with a drawing of a bird *cue evil laughter*

1 hour ago, TheMightyLopen said:

Well...I don't see any good lynch targets. I'd prefer we had a lynch, but there has been very little discussion so far, so I've got zero suspicions. I'll leave my vote on Lumgol I suppose, since I don't want Aman lynched C1, and also the more players that are tied the higher the chance we've got an elim in there, which means they'll have to take some action to protect themselves.

I'm going to bed soon, so unless something happens in the next 30 minutes, this'll be my last post.

True that, about ties being useful and eliminators defending each other. But, that gets less effective if the tied vote becomes diluted across too many players (if I were elim I'd definitely consider letting one or more elims take a small risk if it meant most likely earning trust). I believe that a 2-way tie is optimal.

Mainly, I guess I'm not content with the votes right now because it doesn't feel quite as helpful when all of the lynches are happening with only one vote. There's a lot less to analyze when whoever ends up getting lynched, was lynched unilaterally, imo. (got ninja'd by Striker who I see kind of addressed my concerns here, so yay)

That said, I can sympathize with not having any good leads on the lynch, which is probably why we were in this situation of having a 4-way tie with 1 vote each, in the first place. It's hard to do anything on the first day when there's nothing to talk about, but it feels more difficult in this game than average.

I wonder if we don't have any leads (good or bad) because all of the votes so far are basically poking players who have yet to show up? If so, I am partially to blame for this since I switched to xino, who I honestly am doubting will post this cycle at this point.

While I'm not necessarily opposed to lynching somebody because they never showed up, I'm also not very satisfied with that being 100% of the votes that are being cast right now. We should at least be considering alternatives.

In the spirit of being the change I'd like to see in the world, Elandera @Elandera, you voted for shane with no explanation offered, kind of on the tail end of other inactive people getting prodded with votes like it would blend in. Could you please explain why you chose shane in particular?

[Elandera]

7 minutes ago, MrakeDarshall said:

In the spirit of being the change I'd like to see in the world, Elandera @Elandera, you voted for shane with no explanation offered, kind of on the tail end of other inactive people getting prodded with votes like it would blend in. Could you please explain why you chose shane in particular?

Shane was simply the last one who hadn't posted without a vote. Timing just worked out for when I could actually post. Speaking of which, Shane

I think because of this, I'll go with my gut at vote Stick. I got an off vibe from some of their posts that seemed to downplay potential elim options that if ignored, could cause problems for village. Choosing the birds is the only one that specifically comes to mind. 

[BrightnessRadiant]

Okay just caught up and finished reading everything in the rules. It's almost 2 AM so I'll be brief. One thing that I'm curious about is the internal affairs role. If there's more than one internal affairs role and several people get locked up in the brig then sabatoging the brig will put multiple people in the hospital which could take out multiple players that cycle rather than one that the elims could attack. 

I agree with whoever said that the village probably has a trapper and not the elims. It would be too powerful in a game with less people. 

The elims having a doctor sounds right and I'd think each side has at least 1 if not multiple engineers. Elim doctors healing their own teammates might become suspicious so I'd bet they'll heal villagers at some point to throw people off. Especially for if they get lynched later on.

Biologists are helpful for each side and I'd think the elims would be wary of sabotaging the lab if they had a biologist because the person hospitalized will be at random. If their biologist gets hospitalized already then it would be fair game. Also I'd target someone every cycle to figure out who's targeting who and possibly catch elims that way.

Messengers get to talk to the spec doc???!! Do they get to ask questions? I must know more @Randuir

Okay that's all my comments for now. I must sleep. Sorry for taking so long. I'm good with the lynch where it's at because I don't have thoughts on it right now. My brain is tired and I promise to be more involved next cycle.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Aman(2): Araris, Striker
Elandera(2): Drake, Devotary
Lum(1): Lopen
Xino(1): Burnt
Stick(1): Elandera

Back to some unilateral lynches I see. Still, this is more D1 votes then there have been for a few games. The last couple make casting a vote here feels like more than taking RNG into my own hands. Aman hasn't been around since well before the game started. Lum made one post announcing her existence and hasn't come back to post since despite being on the Shard somewhat recently. Xino is/was around, but hasn't posted. Elandera has now switched her vote from Shane to Stick upon being pushed by Drake. Stick suggesting that the elims wouldn't all go for birds early in the game apparently is now grounds for dismissal.

It's not quite clear what Stick thought the rules for acquiring Aviar were, whether it was 'submit an action and have a random chance of getting a random Aviar', or 'submit an action and three random people who do so get random Aviar', which is an important distinction if three or fewer people try to pick up Aviar. Both cases would lead to a decently high failure rate if multiple elims tried to grab Aviar, as do the actual rules of choosing a specific Aviar, and as many as possible to a maximum of three Aviar being handed out. One or two elims going for Aviar makes sense, especially in preparation for sabotaging the Aviary and not needing to return the birds. Three elims going for birds is excessive.

Failing to vote condones Aman's lynch, and I'd rather cast a vote based on any sort of actual suspicion. Of the active candidates, I would vote for Elandera over Stick, mostly because Elandera shifted from what appears to be the view that slight suspicions don't warrant a D1 lynch on active players to voting for one of those active players once her vote on an inactive was questioned.

 

[BrightnessRadiant]

There was already a tie actually for Aman and xino? drake forgot to take his vote off of xino so he actually has 2 votes. Not sure what Rand's policy is on that. @Randuir @Young Bard @Devotary of Spontaneity that's why I said I was okay with the vote where it was because I thought it was already tied and I should be asleep lol.

[Elandera]

17 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Failing to vote condones Aman's lynch, and I'd rather cast a vote based on any sort of actual suspicion. Of the active candidates, I would vote for Elandera over Stick, mostly because Elandera shifted from what appears to be the view that slight suspicions don't warrant a D1 lynch on active players to voting for one of those active players once her vote on an inactive was questioned.

It wasn't really a push from Drake that caused me to move votes. It was because Shane posted. Timing looks bad, yes, but Drake called me out before I even got on the Shard again after Shane's post.

My vote on Stick was because though I'm not sold on the idea of her being elim, I had a tiny bit more suspicion than anyone else. I was hoping through the course of the day I'd find something more, which is why earlier I said I didn't think it was enough to pursue dismissal at the time.

I also had only skimmed votes and thought two people were already voting on Xino, so I didn't think Stick would be in much danger. As it was one of the few votes on active players, I was more interested to see what the potential reaction might be than solidifying a lynch on an inactive.

[DeTess]

1 hour ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Messengers get to talk to the spec doc???!! Do they get to ask questions? I must know more @Randuir

 

Messengers don't get access to the spec doc. They can use their action to send a message to the spec doc, and the people in the spec doc can send a response. Also, the spec doc is inhabited solely by those signing up as spectators before the game started, those that get lynched or hospitalized don't get added to it.

edit: also, about 90 minutes left in the cycle everyone!

Edited July 15, 2019 by Randuir

[Stick.]

11 hours ago, Elandera said:

I do think it's quite probable elims will go for birds, as they likely have at least one roleless and/or they have someone who doesn't have an action that would be more priority than possibly setting up a PM. Additionally, getting the twin birds would be helpful if they do send someone into the hospital, as that would keep communication open between the elim doc and the person going to the hospital.

I said I doubt they’d all go for birds in the first few cycles. Not that they won’t at all. Plus my understanding of how the Bird mechanic works was way off. XD

8 hours ago, MrakeDarshall said:

2. Are you saying that because the rules say this role was hired by the NITC, it’s more likely to be village?

 Partially, but I was mostly pointing out the irony there’d be in an elim trapper with that kinda wording in the rules (along with “getting your hands dirty to solve a problem). But setting that aside, it seems similar to a coinshot role in a standard Mistborn game, so having an elim trapper would make them too powerful. I’d expect the village to have one, or that he role hasn’t been given out at all. 

8 hours ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Yeah, I had to specify a bird when I put in my order for it to be valid.

For reference, I’m asking for a Kokerlii. I doubt I could win the draw on a more useful bird so I might as well just inconvenience the eliminators (I don’t really see a use for Kokerlii except for the elim team).

Sure I might just be an eliminator double bluffing you, but would I really bring that possibility up if I were? I

I don’t see why you felt the need to reveal this at all.:P 

4 hours ago, MrakeDarshall said:

In the spirit of being the change I'd like to see in the world, Elandera @Elandera, you voted for shane with no explanation offered, kind of on the tail end of other inactive people getting prodded with votes like it would blend in. Could you please explain why you chose shane in particular?

Just pointing out that you’ve expressed village reads for Elandera twice before voting on her, which is kinda odd, even if your vote reasoning is independent of those village reads. 

3 hours ago, Elandera said:

Choosing the birds is the only one that specifically comes to mind. 

I’ve offered explanation for this above. 

1 hour ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

It's not quite clear what Stick thought the rules for acquiring Aviar were, whether it was 'submit an action and have a random chance of getting a random Aviar', or 'submit an action and three random people who do so get random Aviar'

...both xD. I was thinking it goes like you just request for an Aviar and you get a random one of the 3, and if more than three people request for Avair, three people get an Avaiar each and the rest end up wasting an action. Hey, the rules were vague on this.xD 

[Stick.]

(Apologies for double posting)

Drake, because of your quickly changing stance on Elandera. This isn’t much and not affecting the lynch status at all, but I’d like to put it out there. Im not feeling super good about the Elandera lynch. 

[DrakeMarshall]

I don’t remember saying I trusted Elandera?

Oh huh. I guess I did. Once by the way, not twice like you said, and only with the qualifier of “very slight” and only talking about a single post, but whatever, I stand corrected. I hadn’t really considered (or indeed remembered) my earlier comment when I cast that vote.

I’m still keeping my vote where it is though, I think. I’m not claiming to be very sure of myself but my initial reasons for voting stand, and it kind of felt like Elandera was more interested in backing off on the vote than explaining why, when I asked them about it.

I also got kind of odd vibes from BR’s most recent post but I’ll give some slack on that since it was apparently posted while sleep deprived.

Speaking of sleep deprived it’s 2:30am so bye.

[DeTess]

This cycle is closed. the new cycle will be up in 30 minutes to an hour or so.

[DeTess]

Foreman Cole thanked her lucky stars that the day’s work had gone smoothly and without incident so far. In another hour or so the day shift would end, and so far there had been no paranoia-related incidents. She'd have to…

Her train of thought was interrupted by shouting coming from outside her office. ‘Me and my big mouth…’ she muttered as she headed out to see what was going on. A group of workers had gathered outside and where loudly arguing. “Everyone be quiet! You!” She pointed at one of the louder contractors. “What’s going on that apparently can’t wait and can’t be discussed in a civil manner?”

“It’s Saluden, foreman.” a worker from the archipelago called First of the Dawn responded. “He hasn’t shown up for work. In fact, no one’s seen him for the last day or so. We think that’s mighty suspicious.”

“Not as suspicious as Elandera, foreman!” Another worker spoke up. “She’s been spreading baseless rumors around!”

“Saluden called in sick for the day. Something about ‘light-therapy’. That’s something those that worked with him should know by now.” The foreman turned her gaze towards Elandera in the back. “Spreading baseless rumors is precisely the sort of thing that’ll make our work here even harder. I honestly don’t care whether you were involved in the sabotage or not, this is the kind of work where there is no place for a rumormonger. Pack your stuff, and an officer of the constabulary will be waiting for you at the gate. I imagine they’ll have questions for you.”
***
Mika Fergus was nursing a head-ache as he made his rounds. He’d been posted at the entrance to the hangar the night before, and had the dubious honor of running into one of the saboteurs. He didn’t remember the encounter itself, just waking up tied up and gagged in a janitorial closet.

The patrol inside of the hangar felt a lot safer to him. With the airship’s searchlights operational anything suspicious could be lighted up as clearly as if it was noon. This had been useful when he had seen someone skulking around the aviary at the start of his shift, but that had just been First of the dawn looking at the Aviar.

A cold splash of liquid in his neck brought his thoughts back to the here and now. Something seemed to be leaking from the brig section. Something that smelled like...fuel? “Hey, can I get some light over here!” He shouted as he started climbing the gantry. He was certain he could see a shadowy figure move above him.

One of the airship’s searchlight started moving towards him, then suddenly went out after a flash that nearly blinded the unfortunate guard. When his sight returned, the shadowy figure was gone, and a small trail of fire was creeping its way towards the ship’s brig section. It reached the brig long before mika could reach it, and when it did the entire section was alight in a matter of seconds.

***

Elandera was fired, she was a NITC worker.

StrikerEZ targeted the Aviary.

The brig and the bridge were sabotaged.

Airship parts:

Spoiler

1. crew mess
2. aviar holding area
3. bridge(sabotaged)
4. communications hut
5. ship’s laboratory
6. brig(sabotaged)
7. starboard engine
8. port engine
9. sky crane
10. gas bag (sabotaged)
     

player list

Spoiler

1. Xinoehp512
2. Lumgol Eight Thousand Five Hundred and Twenty-Ninth of the Just a Smidge After Twilight... or, I guess, Twi for short
3. StrikerEZ
4. BrightnessRadiant
5. Ventyl
6. Elandera NITC worker.
7. Amanuensis as Saluden Leiken, a Willshaper Worldhopper from Roshar.
8. Ax's boyfriend as Arr K. Thousantoo, an ancient worldhopper who recently recovered from his incident with the constabulary.
9. MrakeDarshall as Quill, a hemalurgist by trade who was marooned on First of the Sun quite some time ago, and has survived mainly by virtue of his... Er... "pets"
10. Devotary of spontaneity as Auseor, a merchant working with a group of salvagers.
11. Mark
12. Shanerockes
13. _stick_
14. TheMightyLopen
15. Alvron as Second of the Sky
16. Araris Valerian as fourth of the moon
17. Burnt spaghetti as 3rd of Sunset

This cycle ends Wednesday 17th of July, 12:00 (noon) Amsterdam time.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Randuir

[Burnt Spaghetti]

Final vote count -coin flip between aman and elandera. The odds were not in Elanderas favour. But hey. This way we have got info that we can go through now so. thank you for your service *salutes Elandera*

Aman(2): Araris, Striker
Elandera(2): Drake, Devotary
Lum(1): Lopen
Xino(1): Burnt
Stick(1): Elandera
Drake (1): Stick

 

-----

 

Firstly- I bet my bird sounds more mournful than all y'alls bird so therefore mines best. My potoo is amazing and i'll fight all you people who got fancy birbs on that. Yeah i'm probably an idiot for telling you all what i did but cmon. i love my bird and you all need to know that.

Secondly, two sabotages. Thats a yikes and a big uh oh. On the plus no one was hospitalised from the brig being sabotaged, so i would take that to mean that no internal affairs people used their ability, which is a relief. But. Now they cant use that ability (a roleblock that also protects) which is a scary one to lose tbh. because now  theres not as much we can do to get in the way of an eliminators actions aside from dismissal or hospitalising them. Or the sak i guess. Still. Not having the brig is concerning.

As for the bridge being sabotaged, well, at least the navigator got one chance to use that? but now they cant reliably vote cause of being blinded and their vote will get randomised around so that'll be interesting...

Thirdly, Elendara. So. my initial thoughts is, they were good, so i would be looking at who voted for them initially, but Id also be looking at the people the vote was being moved away from-was this lynch protecting any elims? or was it just promoting chaos amongst only villagers that the elims just watched... idk im half asleep, imma do some thinking, maybe sleep, then comment more later

[TheMightyLopen]

Well, that almost certainly means the Saboteurs have an engineer. Which means we've got 4 more Cycles minimum. I'm gonna assume we've got some village engineers though, so hopefully they'll be able to repair a few parts and give us a couple more Cycles than that.

Nothing much to say about the lynch at the moment. Nothing stood out to me in particular, but I've only glanced over things, so I'll do another post later once I've got time.

[StrikerEZ]

So...that’s kinda bad. There’s like a 99% chance that the elims have an engineer of their own, unless a village engineer was banking on internal affairs putting someone in the brig first. 

Also, since everyone knows that I targeted the Aviary anyway, I may as well tell y’all what I got. I got the Kukupa twins. I haven’t decided who I’m gonna PM yet though. 

[Stick.]

The Navigator’s vote is going to be randomly redirected today...If I were the Navigator I’d refrain from voting today as it would certainly give away my identity in the next cycle. 

Yeah, the 2 sabotages are worrying. If we don’t get engineers on repair duty quick the elims have an easy win. 

A shame about Elandera. I realise I probably look suspicious for slightly defending her in the last hour of the cycle and then voting on an entirely new lynch candidate when I could’ve voted on Aman to save Elandera. I’m hoping you guys see that that’s TWTBAW  

[DrakeMarshall]

Hm.

So the elims had an engineer. Unsurprising.

They decided to go after sabotage because there was only 8 parts left to sabotage and >8 people left to hospitalize (although I wonder if they failed to take the lynch into account? With a semi-consistent mislynch they would probably be winning faster if they pursued the hospitalization win condition).

They sacrificed their attack to make a sabotage, but they probably convinced themselves to do it because they were sabotaging the brig, and that would most likely hospitalize at least one person.

Only it didn't hospitalize anyone, that part of their plan seems to have not worked out. Which to me says that any internal affairs agents are now soft-cleared. Because if the elims had an internal affairs agent, they either would have brigged someone to guarantee a hospitalization, or they would have not sabotaged the brig in the first place.

They also didn’t go after the biology lab despite apparently wanting to kill two aviar with one stone by sabotaging and hospitalizing at the same time, which could imply that one of the elims is a biologist. Or it might just imply that they thought the bridge was a bigger threat (they would kind of be right in that case, it’s a really fantastic ability for the village).

 

What concerns me is that no village engineers had repaired the gasbag in the meantime. If there aren’t two active village engineers to repair at least one part a cycle, the game is going to end fast. If our engineers are inactive and the elim engineer remains in the game, we're toast.

 

Well, onwards to the lynch. The best possible thing we can do is take the elim!engineer out of the picture, although I doubt we will get that lucky.

First of all, sorry to Elandera. I like what Burnt said, "thank you for your service".

Second of all, we actually have a decent lead now, at least. Two eliminators took sabotage actions. Player list:

1. Xinoehp512 - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.
2. Lumgol - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.
3. StrikerEZ - Spotlight gives Striker an alibi.
4. BrightnessRadiant
5. Ventyl - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.
6. Elandera Dead so clearly not to blame for sabotage.
7. Amanuensis - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.
8. Ax's boyfriend - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.
9. MrakeDarshall - I said I was taking a bird and that's what I did. I'm probably not smart enough to plan this in advance although I'd be flattered if you thought so.
10. Devotary
11. Mark
12. Shanerockes - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.
13. _stick_
14. TheMightyLopen
15. Alvron
16. Araris
17. Burnt

Suspect list for committing sabotage:

1. BrightnessRadiant
2. Devotary - Pretty good village read right now, although that may be colored by my incorrect suspicion of Devotary in our last game together.
3. Mark - I don't think elim!Mark would defend village!Lumgol like they did, so unless Lumgol flips evil I'm ever so slightly more inclined to trust Mark. @Mark IV I wouldn't mind hearing more of your thoughts though.
4. _stick_
5. TheMightyLopen - Lopen's response to my vote last cycle has earned at least one cycle's respite from me voting on them again.
6. Alvron
7. Araris - Very slight village read for the aforementioned reasons (TM).
8. Burnt

4 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

A shame about Elandera. I realise I probably look suspicious for slightly defending her in the last hour of the cycle and then voting on an entirely new lynch candidate when I could’ve voted on Aman to save Elandera. I’m hoping you guys see that that’s TWTBAW  

Nah, I didn't think it was suspicious at the time, otherwise I would have voted for you last cycle. Elandera flipping village doesn't really change that.

Why do you think it was suspicious? 

Stick.

Edited July 15, 2019 by MrakeDarshall

[Stick.]

1 hour ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Lumgol - Probably too inactive to place sabotage order.

I doubt it. I think elim!Lum was certainly active enough to have used an action. The bare minimum you need to do as an elim in a game with no activity filter is spare like 3 seconds to skim your doc and send in a necessary order and you can do that even if you don't post in-thread at all. I'd be looking at anybody online between the start and end time of cycle 1. That includes Shane, off the top of my head. Probably others too.

1 hour ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Nah, I didn't think it was suspicious at the time, otherwise I would have voted for you last cycle. Elandera flipping village doesn't really change that.

An elim would try to gain credibility by defending a villager before their flip. I would be suspicious enough of me to cast a vote.

...wait what am I doing

If you don't think I'm suspicious for that, why the vote?:P 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Nobody being hospitalised means it was the right move for the doctor(s) not to visit the hospital. I'm pretty sure anyone visiting the hospital has to request that the cycle before they want to be there, and since the doctor(s) decided not to risk their identities to heal unknown players, it's quite possible they won't choose to visit the hospital next cycle either.

2 hours ago, MrakeDarshall said:

What concerns me is that no village engineers had repaired the gasbag in the meantime. If there aren’t two active village engineers to repair at least one part a cycle, the game is going to end fast. If our engineers are inactive and the elim engineer remains in the game, we're toast.

Second of all, we actually have a decent lead now, at least. Two eliminators took sabotage actions. Player list:

Active enough to post is active enough for an elim to submit orders, and Xino was around even if he never actually said anything. We know for sure that Aman and Striker didn't take sabotage actions. Everyone else is a possibility.

The gas bag was listed as 'destroyed' last cycle, which I assumed meant it couldn't be fixed. I see that part is now 'sabotaged' like the brig and the bridge, which suggests the gas bag can be fixed. It's lower priority now, but @Randuir, can the gas bag be repaired, and was that the case last cycle as well? Assuming we have more than one engineer willing to help repair the damaged parts, it's probably best to ensure that one part gets repaired, either the brig or the bridge. The simplest way to do that is to vote on which part gets repaired, though that does mean that if we have three village engineers, the extra action is wasted.  I think the bridge is more useful, though internal affairs does seem more trustworthy, if there are any players with that role. I suppose a roleblock gives some of the useful information of an action scan, in that blocking someone corresponding to no sabotage or one sabotage and no hospitalisation implies that the player who was roleblocked is evil(unless the roleblocked player happened to be the target of the elim kill and the failed attack isn't indicated in the writeup). I suppose I'll vote brig for now and think more about it later.

[Alvron]

2 hours ago, MrakeDarshall said:

They decided to go after sabotage because there was only 8 parts left to sabotage and >8 people left to hospitalize (although I wonder if they failed to take the lynch into account? With a semi-consistent mislynch they would probably be winning faster if they pursued the hospitalization win condition).

I disagree with you.  If we take a Doctor into account then sabotaging is the fastest way to win.  Sending someone to the Hospital only works if they stay in the hospital.  Until the Doctor is dealt with, sabotaging is the elims best option.

Having said that, there's no guarantee that they will keep double sabotaging every cycle.  If an engineer gets sent to the hospital and there isn't two sabotages, it's a fairly easy guess that the engineer is evil.  So by changing up when and how often they do sabotage, they keep us guessing and forces us to decide if it's worth the risk to heal a possible Elim engineer or hope we can find all of them before they sabotage the whole ship.

[DrakeMarshall]

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

An elim would try to gain credibility by defending a villager before their flip. I would be suspicious enough of me to cast a vote.

...wait what am I doing

If you don't think I'm suspicious for that, why the vote?:P 

Eliminators are a lot more aware of their own suspiciousness then villagers tend to be, for obvious reasons. I feel like eliminators are more prone to the mindset of wanting to defend themselves in advance from a potential mistake. At least, I know that this is almost definitely one of my own tells.

It's mostly how you said it that provoked my vote:

7 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

A shame about Elandera. I realise I probably look suspicious for slightly defending her in the last hour of the cycle and then voting on an entirely new lynch candidate when I could’ve voted on Aman to save Elandera. I’m hoping you guys see that that’s TWTBAW  

Acknowledging that you did something suspicious is one thing, but trying to call yourself TWTBAW before anyone else said it was even wolfy, let alone too wolfy? Seems a wee bit exaggerated and fake, at least to me.

1 hour ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Nobody being hospitalised means it was the right move for the doctor(s) not to visit the hospital. I'm pretty sure anyone visiting the hospital has to request that the cycle before they want to be there, and since the doctor(s) decided not to risk their identities to heal unknown players, it's quite possible they won't choose to visit the hospital next cycle either.

Active enough to post is active enough for an elim to submit orders, and Xino was around even if he never actually said anything. We know for sure that Aman and Striker didn't take sabotage actions. Everyone else is a possibility.

The gas bag was listed as 'destroyed' last cycle, which I assumed meant it couldn't be fixed. I see that part is now 'sabotaged' like the brig and the bridge, which suggests the gas bag can be fixed. It's lower priority now, but @Randuir, can the gas bag be repaired, and was that the case last cycle as well? Assuming we have more than one engineer willing to help repair the damaged parts, it's probably best to ensure that one part gets repaired, either the brig or the bridge. The simplest way to do that is to vote on which part gets repaired, though that does mean that if we have three village engineers, the extra action is wasted.  I think the bridge is more useful, though internal affairs does seem more trustworthy, if there are any players with that role. I suppose a roleblock gives some of the useful information of an action scan, in that blocking someone corresponding to no sabotage or one sabotage and no hospitalisation implies that the player who was roleblocked is evil(unless the roleblocked player happened to be the target of the elim kill and the failed attack isn't indicated in the writeup). I suppose I'll vote brig for now and think more about it later.

1. Agreed. Either there is no village doctor, or they are playing it safe (which is probably smart of them).

2. Agreed, although it certainly is less likely for those people to put in the orders, while still absolutely possible.

3. So long as we can consistently repair one item per cycle, we should last long enough to defeat the eliminators. Voting on what item to repair is one way to make sure that happens. For what it's worth I vote to repair the bridge because I think that's a very strong asset. I am actually kind of against repairing the brig, because I don't think it's very safe to use, so long as the eliminators are thinking along the lines of sabotaging the brig in an attempt to hospitalize people. If we are predictable in repairing and using the brig then the elims can just use that as an extra kill (though one that has a chance of backfiring for them).

@Randuir I am assuming that if a ship part is fully repaired, that will be announced in-thread. Is it announced in-thread if a ship-part is halfway repaired? If this information is announced in the thread, than it may be worthwhile to distribute the repairs across multiple ship parts, in case we have more than two engineers, since it won't be any setback at least in the long run.

41 minutes ago, Alvron said:

I disagree with you.  If we take a Doctor into account then sabotaging is the fastest way to win.  Sending someone to the Hospital only works if they stay in the hospital.  Until the Doctor is dealt with, sabotaging is the elims best option.

Having said that, there's no guarantee that they will keep double sabotaging every cycle.  If an engineer gets sent to the hospital and there isn't two sabotages, it's a fairly easy guess that the engineer is evil.  So by changing up when and how often they do sabotage, they keep us guessing and forces us to decide if it's worth the risk to heal a possible Elim engineer or hope we can find all of them before they sabotage the whole ship.

I don't think a doctor would revive people every cycle, if they wanted to live very long. Assuming there even is a village doctor they would only delay the eliminators for a short time.

And if the eliminators lose their engineer then they probably wouldn't be able to progress at all with their sabotage win condition, until they take out a village engineer or two.

I agree that there is no guarantee that they will keep sabotaging, albeit for different reasons. The choice to sabotage the brig feels like a decision to hedge their bets, trying to accomplish both a sabotage and a hospitalization.

Are the roles of hospitalized people announced?