Dreamstorm Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 44 minutes ago, Stark said: Different topic! @Mistbornwithakitty - The Name of SHSHSHSHSHSH. I don't know if you read the collection of Dalinar flashbacks titled The Thrill that were released as a short story in that collection last year? If not, spoilers below. Reveal hidden contents I am pretty sure the next flashback we get will be when Dalinar meets Evi, and she is named. My biggest confusion from reading those was why Dalinar could see her and hear her name in the flashbacks. Now we know, its coming back in the present. My thoughts are that the flashback reveal will be to do with the other gaps in his memory, like why his ardent buddy stopped being a soldier. I think is boon was to become someone who could honor Gavilar's wishes, someone who could be better and follow the codes, who could be more than a monster, and that was accomplished by the Nightmother editing some of his more atrocious acts in his memory. I think that allowed him to see himself as a mildly better person, to make himself a much better person to honor his brother's wishes post assassination. I think the curse was to lose his memory of his wife. And I think his radiant bond is allowing him to heal those gaps, like Lopen's arm, as he does not see himself as someone who forgets, and both will come back. I hoped we were going to get that flashback after Chapter 16! Maybe next week... I like that it's more light-hearted than the other Dalinar flashbacks so far, well as light-hearted as you can get when Spoiler someone is still killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 I've not read all the posts about this but one idea I had about Dalinar being about to hear that name is that he was holding stormlight at the time and that interfered with the curse. If you think about it, blocking someone's name sounds like an active boon/curse. It's dynamically interfering with how his brain/spirit processes the info. In which case, if something "jams" the boon/curse then it would not work. Perhaps holding the stormlight did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, ScavellTane said: I think it was mentioned in the books. Does anyone know what is Shallans second truth? 1. life before death 2.?? 3.Killed father 4.Killed mother When she soulcast the goblet in WoK pattern asked what she was and she replied "I'm terrified" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: I think it was mentioned in the books. Does anyone know what is Shallans second truth? 1. life before death 2.?? 3.Killed father 4.Killed mother I am terrified. IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: I think it was mentioned in the books. Does anyone know what is Shallans second truth? 1. life before death 2.?? 3.Killed father 4.Killed mother As mentioned above: "I am terrified". This seems to be a very temporary and cheap truth for a level-up though. It practically becomes void as soon as she is not terrified anymore. Let's hope for Shallan this does not lock her into a permanent state of terrification (is that a word?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vividox Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: This was my first reaction as well but then how do we explain Lift. Remind me about what happened to Lift, it's been awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 I wonder if her final truth would be to accept that the Shallan we all see is also a lie considering these latest chapters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, vividox said: Remind me about what happened to Lift, it's been awhile. That taking in stormlight removes the Nightwatcher's gift. Edited October 4, 2017 by ScavellTane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, vividox said: Remind me about what happened to Lift, it's been awhile. Lift got the ability to metabolize food to Stormlight. Stormlight healing would have taken away that ability practically after her first meal, if it had been treated as an injury. Edgedancers are closer to Cultivation though, so possibly Honor's surgebinding heals Nightwatcher's curses while Cultivation's does not. Edited October 4, 2017 by Pattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, vividox said: Remind me about what happened to Lift, it's been awhile. Just that she has visited the Nightwatcher as well and uses stormlight so if it is as simple as Dalinar using stormlight then the same should be said for Lift. Which then raises the question has Dalinar's boon and curse been lifted or just one? We really do not know if forgetting his wife's name is a boon or a curse. Edited October 4, 2017 by StormingTexan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vividox Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Pattern said: Lift got the ability to metabolize food to Stormlight. Stormlight healing would have taken away that ability practically after her first meal, if it had been treated as an injury. Edgedancers are closer to Cultivation though, so possibly Honor's surgebinding heals Nightwatcher's curses while Cultivation's does not. Ah, I'd completely forgotten about that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 9 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: I think it was mentioned in the books. Does anyone know what is Shallans second truth? 1. life before death 2.?? 3.Killed father 4.Killed mother To be honest, I'm not sure we know 2 or 3 - "Killed father" was not spoken to Pattern but another Cryptic. Shallan was level 3 all this time since she could summon her Shardblade. Therefore, we don't know 2 and 3. I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 7 hours ago, Pattern said: To all those of you who fear Shallan is not far from the breaking point: I think she is years beyond that. She broke when her mother tried to kill her. All the rest of her story is coping with that truth, living on with it, including Investiture entering the cracks to keep her together. Now with Veil and Brightness Radiant those cracks seem to widen, though. I read a book years ago about a woman whose mind was shattered into a number of different distinct personalities and the only way she was able to heal was to accept that fact and then leverage them for independent actions. She ended up being a hyperspace pilot because one of her identities allowed that to happen. I wonder if we could be going down the route of these identities never really going away because she is fundamentally broken, as we know all of the radiants are, and she learns to leverage them and slip in and out of the personas in a heartbeat while still maintaining the relationships and connections that she meets with each one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Therefore my theory is that she's got two distinct personalities, the 'young' shallan we never knew and the 'current' Shallan who we are following. This may also be tied to how Adolin awakens his blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormcrown Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Could the double murders be someone who is trying to cover up for Adolin? They could easily blame Sadeas' murder on whoever did the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 27 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: This was my first reaction as well but then how do we explain Lift. I agree, "Stormight undoes Nightwatcher effects" doesn't seem the right "scale". Especially if it undid the curse while leaving the boon. Either it has to do with self-image, like how Kaladin still has his forehead brands, or Dalinar is indeed fated to forget "his wife"... Or a third way we've yet to discover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Surgebinding seems to be a very 'mixed' system. I don't think it's correct to think of Honor's surgebinding in opposition to Cultivation's surgebinding. It's a cooperative system not a competitive one. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, Pattern said: This seems to be a very temporary and cheap truth for a level-up though. You are right, it is a cheap level up, but that might be acceptable only because she had progressed further as a child before regressing. So easier to get back to a previous level of radiance than a cold start from zero? But it may also be a false positive because she knew about, and thought about using the patternblade. But, she did not summon it that I can think of before re-affirming her 'I am a murderer' truth, so that can go either way. @Mistbornwithakitty I'm glad I didn't openly spoil anything for you. The Thrill contains the first five or six flashback chapters, and as you've pointed out, shows a very, very different Dalinar than we know in the present. Which means on some Tuesdays, some of us get chapters we've already read elsewhere, albeit with some small changes. Most of my blurb was conjecture, but I am hoping that the flashback sequence for Dalinar will culminate with his trip to the Nightmother, or his perspective from the assassination night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Also, this WoB seems to imply that the surges themselves are part of Roshar magic in general. If this is the case, then surgebinding Dalinar did wouldn't drive out Cultivation's influence. Quote EHYDE So I'm just gonna run with that right now. Is Surgebinding in general a melding of Honor and Odium ala Feruchemy being in some senses being not directly of Ruin or Preservation? BRANDON SANDERSON Honor and Cultivation is what you mean? Um, there are spren of all three shards. And those spren can work within the bounds of the magic that has already been set up on Roshar. (Source) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Emerald101 said: Surgebinding seems to be a very 'mixed' system. I don't think it's correct to think of Honor's surgebinding in opposition to Cultivation's surgebinding. It's a cooperative system not a competitive one. This might be true. None the less Investiture resists other Investiture, for example it would be quite hard to steelpush a shardblade and Szeth is not able to wear shardplate and use the Honorblade simultaneously. So it is possible that Dalinar holding Stormlight while Navani mentioned Evi made the Investiture he held able to remove the Nightwatchers boon and/or curse. This does not explain Lift though, who draws Stormlight and keeps her boon and curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 46 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: This was my first reaction as well but then how do we explain Lift. Lift had something altered in her Spiritual DNA whereas Dalinar has something cut out of his Spiritual DNA (e.g. Connection to Evi). In my mind, I think of it like this: If Cosmere souls were cars, Lift's soul-car was converted to use biodiesel, and Dalinar's soul-car had a door ripped off. In Lift's case, the alteration didn't really create any damage to heal. In Dalinar's case, there's definitely damage to heal. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 44 minutes ago, Pattern said: Let's hope for Shallan this does not lock her into a permanent state of terrification (is that a word?). a permanent state of terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Salkara said: a permanent state of terror. I looked it up, terrification does indeed exist -and means what I intended it to mean. BTW, nice soul-car analogy. I am not sure whether Dalinar remembering Evi will turn out beneficial to his mental health, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Pattern said: BTW, nice soul-car analogy. I am not sure whether Dalinar remembering Evi will turn out beneficial to his mental health, though. I hope it will in the long run. To extend the soul-car analogy, repairing that door is going to cost more money than Dalinar probably wants to spend right now, but in the long run, he'll be better off with a working door than the duct tape and cardboard he was using. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Salkara said: Lift had something altered in her Spiritual DNA whereas Dalinar has something cut out of his Spiritual DNA (e.g. Connection to Evi). In my mind, I think of it like this: If Cosmere souls were cars, Lift's soul-car was converted to use biodiesel, and Dalinar's soul-car had a door ripped off. In Lift's case, the alteration didn't really create any damage to heal. In Dalinar's case, there's definitely damage to heal. That only explains one half though right? As far as we know Lift still has her curse (damage). Or are we not considering all curses to be "damage". Of course again I’m not sold on forgetting his wife being Dalinar’s curse. I can see it as both a boon or a curse depending on what he asked for and the circumstances of her death. I’m also having a hard time wrapping my head around just one or the other being “healed” and not both. As a side note I’m going to be deeply disappointed if we do not get to see Dalinar’s Nighwatcher visit in his flashback. Edited October 4, 2017 by StormingTexan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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